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How can White people (EU+US) try to heal the wounds inflicted upon Black people?

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Lime

Member
TL;DR: White people and power structures have done and still do terrible shit to people/bodies identifying/ascribed as being Black. Moreover, White people hold power, resources and privileges, while most Black people/bodies generally don't thanks to active/passive/structural racism and systemic disadvantage. Therefore, what specific suggestions do you have in terms of rectifying these injustices or simply making things better and more equal?

As a White European I am really interested in what people, especially the affected ones, have to say regarding this question. I am going to try to be as brief as possible, but I think there are some incredibly convincing arguments and lived experiences that should make it evident why White people, i.e. the ones in power and in benefit of the past and current societal structures, should try as much as possible to rectify past and current injustices. Since White Europeans and North Americans have a long list of atrocities against other nations and peoples and covering all of them would be too broad and watered-down, I want to focus the discussion on specifically African-Americans or people who either identify or being ascribed as being “Black” in US.

In case someone reading this thread is not aware of how Black people in Western societies/the US have been historically and still to this day discriminated, oppressed, and marginalized, here’s a list of what White people are guilty of and ways in which Black people are victimized and oppressed through individual/systemic/structural racism:

  1. Colonization of Africa/Abducting Africans/"Maafa" (Black Holocaust): Should be self-evident, as it resulted in a complete fracture of friends, families, communities, cultures and societies with future descendants obviously severely affected by it.
  2. Slavery in North America: Also self-evident. Tons of people not only losing their freedom and integrity, but also their lives and kickstarting the caste-like racism still prevalent in the US.
  3. Segregation/Jim Crow: Should also be self-evident as to why this is simply morally reprehensible.
  4. Police profiling: We see how just being Black automatically invites police frisks/stops/violence/ due to racist prejudices and profiling. Besides being stopped just for being Black, people are also subjected to racist behavior by the police, resulting in actual death with no repercussions for the police in question. "According to the Human Rights Watch, people of color are no more likely to use or sell illegal drugs than whites, but they have higher rate of arrests. African Americans comprise 14 percent of regular drug users but are 37 percent of those arrested for drug offenses. From 1980 to 2007 about one in three of the 25.4 million adults arrested for drugs was African American."
  5. Judicial system: "The U.S. Sentencing Commission stated that in the federal system black offenders receive sentences that are 10 percent longer than white offenders for the same crimes. The Sentencing Project reports that African Americans are 21 percent more likely to receive mandatory-minimum sentences than white defendants and are 20 percent more like to be sentenced to prison." http://www.americanprogress.org/iss...or-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/
  6. Imprisonment: "Approximately 12%-13% of the American population is African-American, but they make up 40% of the almost 2.1 million male inmates in jail or prison. 1 in every 15 African American men and 1 in every 36 Hispanic men are incarcerated in comparison to 1 in every 106 white men. One in three black men can expect to go to prison in their lifetime."
  7. Voting: "An estimated 5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote based on a past felony conviction. Felony disenfranchisement is exaggerated by racial disparities in the criminal-justice system, ultimately denying 13 percent of African American men the right to vote. Felony-disenfranchisement policies have led to 11 states denying the right to vote to more than 10 percent of their African American population."
  8. Housing policies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institutional_discrimination_in_the_United_States_housing_market and http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ng-policy-that-made-your-neighborhood/371439/
  9. Media representation: This study recently released “shows minorities claimed only 10.5 percent of the lead roles in the 172 films examined for 2011. Because minorities collectively accounted for 36.3 percent of the U.S. population in 2010, they were underrepresented by a factor of more than 3 to 1 among lead roles in the films examined.” . This matters because of “Historically, there has been a dearth of gender, racial, and ethnic diversity in film and television — both in front of and behind the camera. This reality has meant limited access to employment for women and minorities and to a truncating of the domain of media images available for circulation in contemporary society. As discussed above, media images contribute greatly to how we think about ourselves in relation to others. When marginalized groups in society are absent from the storie s a nation tells about itself, or when media images are rooted primarily in stereotype, inequality is normalized and is more likely to be reinforced over time through our prejudices and practices.” http://www.bunchecenter.ucla.edu/wp...2/2014-Hollywood-Diversity-Report-2-12-14.pdf
  10. News coverage: “Sports and crime were by far the most common topic areas to include African American males. On local television, in which the sample included sports segments, more than four out of 10 stories (43 percent) that prominently featured African American men were sports-focused and another 30 percent were about crime. No other subject was higher than 4 percent. In newspapers, where the sample did not include the sports section, 43 percent of stories with an African American presence were crime related. After race and gender at 16 percent and government at 11 percent, no other topic in print was higher than 7 percent (education and lifestyle both) http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/sites/default/files/portrayal-and-perception-20111101.pdf
  11. White Beauty ideals: "Black women are particularly vulnerable to the effects of European standards of beauty, because these standards emphasize skin colors and hair types that exclude many black women, especially those of darker skin. A review of the research indicates that European standards of beauty can have damaging effects on the life trajectories of black women, especially those with dark skin, primarily in the form of internalized self-hatred. Suggestions are made for social work practitioners to address the effects of these internalized European beauty standards among black women through programming and clinical practice."
  12. Education: “researchers found that “a student in a school in the highest-poverty quartile is almost three times as likely to be taught by a teacher rated ineffective as a student in a school in the lowest-poverty quartile.” And “similarly, students in schools with a high concentration of minorities are more than twice as likely to have an ineffective teacher than students in schools with a low minority enrollment.” “Regardless of how it is measured, teacher quality is not distributed equitably across schools and districts. Poor students and students of color are less likely to get well-qualified or high-value teachers than students from higher-income families or students who are white,” says the report. http://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/TeacherDistributionBrief1.pdf
  13. Cultural appropriation and commercialization of African-American culture: Blues, Jazz, Hiphop, ghetto lifestyles, swag, twerking, etc.
And most likely a ton of other things that I haven’t have the time/space, or perhaps the awareness and experience to include.

Personally, I don’t think the wounds inflicted in the past, present, and future will ever be fully healed or mended, nor do I want/expect the oppressed party to ever forgive the oppressors, but at the very least I think oppressors and beneficiaries are morally responsible for rectifying racially motivated individual and systematic atrocities committed. For example, besides being responsible for the continuous unequal treatment of Black people in the US, historic and contemporary state of affairs show that White people have historically profited from the colonization, abduction, and slavery of Black people. I.e. people today are well off thanks the exploitation of resources, labor, and people, while still today perpetuating various degrees of active and passive racism as individuals, as a society, and throughout the structures and media. Moreover, White people still hold the majority of social power compared to other people, so they enjoy the privilege of being White when it comes to education, police, employment, housings, media, income, beauty ideals, etc.

Here are some general (idealistic?) suggestions that I can think of or that I’ve come across, but I have no idea on what it would require to make things better so think of them as conversation motivators:

  1. Reparations: Monetary, resources, education, etc. Raising the social mobility across poor and Black communities by raising the level of education, social care, healthcare, employment, etc. through an infusion of money from the government.
  2. Affirmative Action specifically targeting Black people. Getting a job isn't entirely about merits, but what body you are identified as. I think privileged White people should move to the side and let Black bodies in.
  3. Higher taxes of rich and wealthy people, most notably White ones. Provide this taxed money to education, health, security, etc. in Black communities.
  4. Media emphasis on African-American culture and values.
  5. Incentives for media diversity and news reporting
  6. Watch dogs of the people in power
  7. Education & awareness for White people to learn about racism, privilege, and the tools on how to deal with passive, institutional and systemic racism.
  8. A complete reform or overhaul of the police, courts, and prisons.
  9. Public apology and confirmation and reparations of past atrocities by the nations involved in the slave trade.
  10. Secession or self-rule by African-Americans à la Native Americans? Probably a far-fetched suggestion, but if people desired such a solution, hopefully Black people would receive better and more resource-rich land along with the required funds to "get the ball rolling".
Before offended people jump the gun and hit the reply button please don’t repeat these following invalid criticisms:
  • Africans enslaved other Africans! - African history wasn't well-documented until Europeans arrived. Moreover, if armed and hostile Europeans arrived and demanded local societies for slaves, what do you think they would do? Finally, slaves in the African societies in question were treated with more integrity and individuality than as subhuman as in Europe and the US.
  • Obama is President, Racism is over!- Just because a person of color is voted into office doesn't detract from the large
  • All the slavery shit happened centuries ago and no longer affects our present societal standings. - This argument completely denies historic causality and how people are affected by the wealth and freedom of opportunities (or lack thereof) of their ancestors and environment. European nations benefited from slavery and White North Americans did as well, which in turn made them more powerful in maintaining and withholding power and resources for future development of cultures and societies.
  • White guilt/savior complex! - This is irrelevant to the matter at hand, which is the moral obligation to ensure the basic well-being of others and rectifying past and current atrocities. People are still suffering because of past and contemporary actions and structures.
I sincerely apologize if I am exceeding my boundaries in talking about something I am not subjected to as a White person, but I'm really interested in hearing about this topic. Please lock this thread and/or ridicule if I am overstepping my boundaries.
 

Captain Pants

Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
Fixing the schools and the criminal justice system would go a long way towards making things right. When pressed on how to do that, I'll have nothing. I am day drunk.
 

MegaMelon

Member
Providing better opportunities to those who are disprivileged is the main way I think out of the things you mentioned that coul help. For example, to study Medicine in Britain you need very high grades of AAAb on average. However, certain unis let you study medicine with grades as low as CCCd if you come from a rough/poor area. It would be cool to see this implemented on a larger scale.
 

entremet

Member
I'm not black so most of my knowledge is academic or observational, not experiential, which is something that is a blind spot for me I'd admit, but a lot it stems from economic disenfranchisement. Political change sadly is based on economics.

But the simplest, not easiest, would be to end the drug war, which is based on institutional racism--whites use the more illegal drugs and than blacks proportionally, yet sentencing, policing, and enforcement falls heavily on blacks.

Not to mention that jail time hinders employment and economic and career development. Black males are heavily affected by these racist laws.

That would be one of the biggest ways to promote racial equity, but the prison industrial complex won't let this happen.

Use the resources for prisons for schools, training teachers, etc.
 

dLMN8R

Member
The first step is in acknowledging that it's actually still an issue.

So many people forget that there are millions of people alive today who were adults when federal laws directly limited their rights. This isn't some sad bit of history that happened hundreds of years ago, it's extremely recent.
 

Lime

Member
Time and compassion is all you need.

While admirable, Time and compassion aren't gonna help historic and systemic oppression and disadvantage. When you're born into poverty and society-wide oppression of your identity, compassion isn't gonna help.
 

Joeki11a

Banned
We are Human, these seperations are just not even real at all. Thats humanity biggest mistake trying to seperate each other in groups.

A muslim and a Jewish person are Humans firstly, an Asian and a puerto rican are just Humans, we are all in a damn planet in the middle of the universe full of planets galaxy stars ect, thats the reality of life.
 

Lord Fagan

Junior Member
The first step is in acknowledging that it's actually still an issue.

Can't do that without framing it in the context of humor, apparently.

tumblr_lzv2affvF81qbkprxo1_400.gif
 
What I see most when going to forums and race comes up is that some white people who think they're good listeners aren't actually listening. When a black person relates a story about how they feel, it gets refuted with irrelevant stats to try and logic the story away for some reason, as if the black person involved didn't wish they could logic away how they feel for their whole life. Then the white person thinks they had an honest dialogue with a black person instead of realizing they should have just listened and had some empathy.
 

gogosox82

Member
I think fixing the infrastructure of the inner city and the educational opportunities of the inner city would go a long way to help fixing the problem. Houses, apartment complexes, etc are so run down that its a wonder that any one can live there let alone entire families and just having better schools with proper tools to educate minorities would do a world of difference.

Whites in places of power not being so dismissive and defensive about the disadvantages blacks face would also help. Just by not being dismissive and actually trying to solve the problems that blacks face will help a lot as well.
 

Famassu

Member
Yeah, there is no instant or possibly even a permanent solution that would forever demolish all the inequality all black people come across in Europe & NA (and elsewhere). Even if all those actions you describe in the OP advance society to a better tomorrow, there will always be those jackasses who will use something arbitrary like the colour of the skin to judge people and/or blame those people for problems they have, hopefully we'll just continue advancing into a society where those kind of people will end up being a really, really miniscule minority instead of a visible (& audible) part of society.
 

entremet

Member
What I see most when going to forums and race comes up is that some white people who think they're good listeners aren't actually listening. When a black person relates a story about how they feel, it gets refuted with irrelevant stats to try and logic the story away for some reason, as if the black person involved didn't wish they could logic away how they feel for their whole life. Then the white person thinks they had an honest dialogue with a black person instead of realizing they should have just listened and had some empathy.

It seems the reaction is a purely defensive one. Not to defend the reactions. But they come off as, "But, I'm not racist. What do you want me to do about it?!".

We need to move beyond that for further discussion. I personally never refute racism since I'm rarely if ever a victim of it. Same reason I can't speak on certain things that only women experience. So yes, listening is an important aspect, instead of becoming overtly defensive.
 

Cragvis

Member
While admirable, Time and compassion aren't gonna help historic and systemic oppression and disadvantage. When you're born into poverty and society-wide oppression of your identity, compassion isn't gonna help.

Actually if EVERYONE was compassionate, they would help anyone that would be oppressed and at a disadvantage, or poor.

So it would help. In reality though getting 100% of the population to be compassionate enough to want to help the less fortunate climb up to their level in life, is not going to happen.
 

Dice//

Banned
not black here
I definitely think changing and overhauling the penal system would go a long way; stop giving criminal records and jail times for drug related crimes or other minor offences (keep jails for serious criminals, murderers, sexual assaulters, thieves, etc). This benefits a lot of people too.

Also, it's a small thing, but I honestly believe more media presense, more television shows where the cast is made up of more than white people and the 'token minority' (one Black, one Asian or whatever). Don't type cast either; it's one thing if a role MUST have a person of colour for plot reasons, but another to just divvy up who's playing who because the role can be filled by anyone.

Compassion and empathy works too. The book is old, but Atticus Finch says that you can't judge someone till you walk a mile in their shoes. I believe this to be incredibly true and insightful --- we all have our stories.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
How about:

-don't be a dick

and

-solve social mobility?

The end.

EDIT: it happen to me that this could be one of the reason socialism is seen as such a bad thing in the us, because it promotes unfavoured part of the population, overrepresented in minorities. What a backward ass country.

And tbh i really hate this "minority" "majority" bullshit, it's all so political and just remind people constantly that we have to fight cause we are different from each other when we actually are not.
 

Joeki11a

Banned
All you had to do was follow the train.



What now

It isnt real, all that stuff is just a realm confusion the matrix system glitched.

All this seperation is the reason Earth is a mess, instead of thinking about Humans coming together, all you get is full blown division.

all this black, white, muslim, catholic ect stuff
means nothing in reality, where you are a Human on Earth and thats it. Humans began to play around in the realm making rules and divisons started it, Earth has been polluted.
 

TCRS

Banned
You know one thing that bothers me about this sort of argumentation is the asumption that without slavery white people wouldn't have been well off, that they wouldn't control all ressources in their countries etc. All the things that you mentioned would still be true without slavery. The one thing that slavery did was make them even more wealhy because they saved on labour costs. But even without slavery they would have been the dominant force in that era all the way to today. Your post reads like as if white people have slavery to thank for their wealth.

That's just a minor issue though, because slavery did happen, terrible injustices did occur that are affecting the black community until today. I personally think that letting current policies such as affirmative action play out will have a positive outcome in the future. But heavy investment in schools is needed, american inner city schools are terrible. Other than that you just need time I suppose.
 
Reperations.

Cash and land. You want to even the playing field? Let black people start creating wealth by giving them access to the things that they've been systematically deprived of.

Access to higher education, either free or significanly reduced, without repayments. Student loan forgiveness.

No loans. If a black person wants to go to school or be retrained, they should be able to do so. On the same subject:

Free or reduced high quality child care.

Education about black culture and black history.

The end of the drug war.

And last, but not least, a formal apology for slavery.

All of these things would go a long way in evening the playing field. Operative key word there being evening. Even if all of this actually happened (and it never will), it's going to take at least a few generations to really even things out.
 

AkuMifune

Banned
I've been pretty cool to people of all races my whole life, and am teaching my daughter to do the same. I don't think I have anything to make amends for beyond that, honestly. We all struggle against the man.
 

entremet

Member
You know one thing that bothers me about this sort of argumentaation is the assumption that without slavery white people wouldn't have been well off, that they wouldn't control all ressources in their countries etc. All the things that you mentioned would still be true without slavery. The one thing that slavery did was make them even more wealhy because they saved on labour costs. But even without slavery they would have been the dominant force in that era all the way to today. Your post reads like as if white people have slavery to thank for their wealth.

That's just a minor issue though, because slavery did happen, terrible injustices did occur that are affecting th black community until today. I personally think that letting current policies such as affirmative action play out will have a positive outcome in the future. But heavy investment in schools is needed, american inner city schools are terrible. Other than that you just need time I suppose.

In the US at least there was a substantial amount of revenue and wealth generated on free labor via slavery.
 
It isnt real, all that stuff is just a realm confusion the matrix system glitched.

All this seperation is the reason Earth is a mess, instead of thinking about Humans coming together, all you get is full blown division.

all this black, white, muslim, catholic ect stuff
means nothing in reality, where you are a Human on Earth and thats it. Humans began to play around in the realm making rules and divisons started it, Earth has been polluted.
Breh, what...
 

Kraftwerk

Member
It isnt real, all that stuff is just a realm confusion the matrix system glitched.

All this seperation is the reason Earth is a mess, instead of thinking about Humans coming together, all you get is full blown division.

all this black, white, muslim, catholic ect stuff
means nothing in reality, where you are a Human on Earth and thats it. Humans began to play around in the realm making rules and divisons started it, Earth has been polluted.


giphy.gif
 
A quantum leap in the world's collective consciousness, a dramatic re-structuring of the world economy, and subsequent evolution of world culture into something unforeseen is the answer. Basically, we need change so great that the era of colonization and industrial revolution feels more akin to the pre-industrial era than it does our present.
 
It isnt real, all that stuff is just a realm confusion the matrix system glitched.

All this seperation is the reason Earth is a mess, instead of thinking about Humans coming together, all you get is full blown division.

all this black, white, muslim, catholic ect stuff
means nothing in reality, where you are a Human on Earth and thats it. Humans began to play around in the realm making rules and divisons started it, Earth has been polluted.

So, does that make you the sequels?
 

mr2xxx

Banned
Things like affirmative action but too many view that as unfair and say " I wasn't responsible for X, so why should I pay the price for it?".
 

mantidor

Member
The problem about race I see, even from well intentioned people, is that their line of thought is always "us" vs "them". You even had to clarify how you are "white" and you are not sure if you are "overstepping boundries" (this seriously scapes me). Once you realize there is no "them", and it's just "us", as a whole, you will see some change. Your list is futile as long as you or societies in general still think of people of other races as "other people".
 
Empathy would be a good start.

It's difficult to be empathetic to pressures one's never experienced.

I think better education is a good start ... Both for the disenfranchised minority youth and the white person whom lacks empathy.

I really have no idea what it's like to be racially profiled or discriminated against. I've never experienced structural racism either. I understand and believe these issue are real because I was educated though.

I truly believe we're already moving towards a more egalitarian society though. Each generation is less and less racist, homophobic and sexist.
 

UrbanRats

Member
The problem about race I see, even from well intentioned people, is that their line of thought is always "us" vs "them". You even had to clarify how you are "white" and you are not sure if you are "overstepping boundries" (this seriously scapes me). Once you realize there is no "them", and it's just "us", as a whole, you will see some change. Your list is futile as long as you or societies in general still think of people of other races as "other people".

What do you mean? It's a specific demographic of people getting the short end of the stick, of course there is the distinction to make, because that distinction is used (and it has been used) to discriminate and abuse in the first place.
 

muu

Member
Beefing up the education system would be a start. Poorer neighborhoods in general directly correlate with worse-ranked schools, which in turn promote further segregation between haves and havenots -- no parent in their right mind is going to stay in a known bad school zone if their finances allow an escape. I don't know what you can do about saving the people that's already reached adulthood growing up in an impoverished household, never managed to get out and have lost the will to try again, but their kids are going to follow in their footsteps as long as their education is underfunded.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I think fixing the infrastructure of the inner city and the educational opportunities of the inner city would go a long way to help fixing the problem. Houses, apartment complexes, etc are so run down that its a wonder that any one can live there let alone entire families and just having better schools with proper tools to educate minorities would do a world of difference.

Whites in places of power not being so dismissive and defensive about the disadvantages blacks face would also help. Just by not being dismissive and actually trying to solve the problems that blacks face will help a lot as well.

This plus ending the war on drugs. In terms of actual, measurable, statistical impact I think these are the highest priorities
 

John Dunbar

correct about everything
the only thing that can be done is for everyone to fuck everyone until we all look alike. it's a long term solution tho.
 

Enzom21

Member
The first step would be certain people actually acknowledging that racism is still very much an issue and electing a black man President didn't magically fix everything.

There also needs to be a major overhaul of law enforcement agencies and the type of people they hire.

Reparations should happen but never will.

It's difficult to be empathetic to pressures one's never experienced.

I think better education is a good start ... Both for the disenfranchised minority youth and the white person whom lacks empathy.

I really have no idea what it's like to be racially profiled or discriminated against. I've never experienced structural racism either. I understand and believe these issue are real because I was educated though.

I truly believe we're already moving towards a more egalitarian society though. Each generation is less and less racist, homophobic and sexist.

You don't have to experience the pressures minorities experience to have empathy for us. What he means by empathy is, being able to listen to the issues minorities have experienced without trying to discount said experience by saying things like "Cops harassed me and I am white. It's not always a race issue." This always happens and it's infuriating.
I don't think each generation is getting less racist, there are still plenty of young racists.
 
First step is actually acknowledging there is a problem and it's not advantageous to just ignore it in the obtuse belief that it will solve itself.
 
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