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How come Sega's not releasing old Saturn games on iOS?
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Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Exactly. I'd be hard-pressed to remain loyal to a company with such bad management, but Yu Suzuki and folks were certainly able to. Look at how many of the former personnel left once SEGA's console era ended!
They could do a lot more with their old IPs, all that said. But SEGA is doing better than Capcom, much better, and they're slowly digging their way out of the hole that Sega-Sammy landed them in.
outunderthestars
Banned
he problem is that, outside of boards like this, nobody else would care.
Theonik
Member
I think it's a combination of factors. Emulating the Saturn is hard, and it would take a lot of effort from Sega's end to make a commercial grade emulator for it, and the consumer interest needed to justify that cost just isn't there. Now, I know SSF exists, I have used it several times, it's not good enough to really sell though. (would it even be possible to port on iOS anyway?) Also they have lost the source code for a lot of those games so porting is out of the question.
Did they ever manage to implement proper 3D acceleration on SSF? I remember it being difficult because of the way Saturn calculates 3D (or something to that extent). It's been a while since I checked.
Edit: Nope, it seems SSF is still 100% Software Emulated.
Horseticuffs
Full werewolf off the buckle
I'd be ALL the hell up in a Powerslave remake's business. I'd love to see where a modern dev. would take it.
Of course stuff like the Panzer Dragoon games goes without saying, as would Nights/Xmas Nights. The real question is what's up with BUG! and Mr. Bones?
GoofsterStud
Member
Just import the PS2 version. I play that in my PC emulator, and with the higher resolution it looks great. Sure there could be better graphical upgrades done today. But it's accurate, faithful to the original and looks lovely in high-res. It also includes Christmas Nights as a bonus after you beat the game. It even offers classic saturn mode, which is 100% accurate. The only think that seems to be oddly not as good is the sound effects. The Saturn sound processing was amazing in it's day.
Why it was never released in the US or Europe is beyond me. It was released about the same time is the horrible Nights sequel.
I would to; however, Sega would have much more success by selling them as episodes for 9.99 or 14.99 each. If they improved the graphics slightly, these could be potential smash hits. Also I bet it'd sell well on the Iphone.
Already everyone has forgotten about the recent XBLA ports of Guardian Heroes and the first ever arcade port of Daytona USA, as well as a fan developed better than the original port of Sonic CD for that other console they never emulate. Oh and don't forget Chuchu Rocket for iOS.
Why beg for emulation when they can port or remake them properly like they have with those three titles? Bad management? They are probably more well managed then they ever were in the console days when they ran them selves out of the console race, espvailly the last year or so with a lot of these downloadable releases.
Why beg for emulation when they can port or remake them properly like they have with those three titles? Bad management? They are probably more well managed then they ever were in the console days when they ran them selves out of the console race, espvailly the last year or so with a lot of these downloadable releases.
PS2 is also pretty "messy" as far as emulation goes, but I'd wager that Sony sees a lot more sales potential in reselling hundreds of PS2 titles on all their future platforms than Sega sees in doing the same for the dozen or so Saturn games a few people on the internet want. They are great games, but there's a huge difference in scale and potential sales here.
Theonik
Member
Because with a lot of Saturn releases that simply is not possible, Panzer Dragoon Saga for example is notorious for Sega losing the source code which makes a port near impossible.
Also iirc they had the software emulator used for these releases made a long time ago when they were still trying to get PS2 BC in software. They are basically only releasing optimised versions of the few games that actually worked on that. Sega would very probably have to work from scratch.
GoofsterStud
Member
It uses Quads instead of Tris for polygons.
This is the whole reason it's hard to emulate properly. Also any really good emulators don't offer enhancements because they have to use software to emulate quads. This is why it takes a more powerful machine to emulate perfectly, but also why graphic touchups are nearly impossible with emulation.
Graphic cards don't do Quads well. Anyone that tries has such massive glitches, that it's overbearing. This is the biggest problem with moving to consoles. There CPU and Ram limits the amount of software emulation possible.
How the hell do you your own source codes? No backups or copies anywhere? If you ask me, the organization of Sega is why is went down the tube. I remember Sega America and Japan fighting over what will get released hear. Deciding to avoid 2D and marketing them was a huge mistake. 2D games that look amazing were still popular then.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Saturn management does not equal Dreamcast management. Bernie Stolar got his act together and the new CEO in charge of SoJ did every right thing possible to turn the ship around. And they still couldn't save the company without heading out of the console business.
SEGA's almost back to those Dreamcast days—maybe. The top management gets more experimental and takes more risks every year, and I can see where you're coming from there. The AM Port Team, in particular, has done very well.
In what world is NiGHTS a fun game to play with anything but an analog stick?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
OT: what about 32x emulation/port? My friend always want to try one game from 32x.
Also I want to try dragon force from saturn.
Also I want to try dragon force from saturn.
outunderthestars
Banned
The same world in which Saturn games that were commercial failures 15 years ago are suddenly viable products when ported to a device without any buttons.
I guess in cases like that emulation would be the only option unless they flat out remade it. I just think whenever we get the emulation solution we mostly end up with sloppy emulation.
But is the effort involved worth the cost? Not many people have ever even heard of the Saturn, let alone its games. And the graphics, as they are, will not impress.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Because just like PSX games the games have aged terribly.
GoofsterStud
Member
It was to late then. Sega didn't have the financial backing at that point to do it. Releasing a console was futile. With any organization they would of realized that. Combine that with damaged brand of the Sega Saturn, it was a mess.
This is not true anymore. Many top 100 titles have more Sega Saturn games listed then PSX and N64. I have seen a couple where the Sega Saturn had mroe games listed then the other combined. Retro sites love the Sega Saturn. Games like Shining Force 3 (scenarios 2 and 3 being translated by fans, there is a demand if fans are programing translations that work being played on a moded Saturn)
Somehow the saturn gaming library is now considered the Diamond in the rough. It has the Nostalgia appeal, while also remaining fresh and new to many who overlooked it.
Theonik
Member
Yes, I'm sure most people would rather have ports, the ports we got from Sega the past couple of years have mostly been superb. Their emulation/backbone efforts though, not so much. The biggie here is that as you said that may end up being the only option for a lot of games.
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
That didn't stop them from porting Daytona USA and the DC titles.
They probably want to focus on porting their arcade titles and Sonic titles for now. I'm kinda sad that they haven't been announcing new DC HD titles.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Landstalker is better, but I like Dark Savior as well. A Landstalker remake was planned for the PSP a while back, but Climax never pulled through with it.
@Goofer: Obviously. But they tried to go out with a bang, and they did.
Mama Robotnik
Member
I disagree on the 2D games. Guardian Heroes, Keio Flying Squadron 2, Story of Thor 2, and Saturn Bomberman, Darkstalkers, Waku Waku, Super Puzzle Fighter, and Sexy Parodius all look pretty fresh actually.
Beautiful 2D games really stand the test of time, and its a category the Saturn had in abundance.
Dark Saviour is a great game. The Gamespot review panned it with a barely-detailed and abrupt review that always frankly puzzled me, especially given that the print magazines at the time sang its praises. Different opinions, etc. Its a shame that the Gamespot review is the only review from day of release that is still online.
Regarding the game's strengths: The story was fun, the island-prison scenario was imaginative, the visuals worked, the fight system was eccentric enough to be interesting, the platforming was good, the music was stunning and the Parallels system was tremendously innovative. Playing the game with the universe rewriting itself to be distinct from your last playthrough was something I'd have loved to have seen in more games.
I still have my copy, its a treasure.
I have a fairly big Saturn collection. Not everything runs well on PC. But most of what I like to play does. Having said that, I would fully support Saturn games being put up on Wii Virtual Console, or whatever the next gen version of it will be called. Not everyone has access to a Saturn machine and a well-rounded collection of games.
And the Ps2 version of Nights isn't accurate, not even close to it. The timings are all messed up and anyone who've spent any significant amount of time with the original would know this.
Bullshit. A good game is a good game forever.
And the Ps2 version of Nights isn't accurate, not even close to it. The timings are all messed up and anyone who've spent any significant amount of time with the original would know this.
Bullshit. A good game is a good game forever.
GoofsterStud
Member
Hmm I didn't notice a difference. I'll have to pull up the original. I did notice that Nights played better in emulation then it does on my PS3 with backwards compatibility. I'll plug in the Sega Saturn one later today, but without comparing them side by side I couldn't tell a difference.
outunderthestars
Banned
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
I'm fine with a lot of the old polygonal Saturn and PSX games of the day, mainly because I can appreciate the look of a technically-impoverished visual style for what it was and now is. The sprite-based romps, of course, have stood the test of time much better, but I can have my ancient polygon fetish too.
Diablohead
Member
BUURRRNNNNIINNNGGG RRAAANNNGGGEEERRRSSSS
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
GoofsterStud
Member
+++ In 2D gaming.
I still play the 2D saturn games from time to time
Dragon Force (I get a strange itch to play it ever other year, and every year I can't put it down tell I'm done)
Astral (I love the beauty. I wish Saturn Emulations allowed filter effects like SNES. The filters would go perfect with the games style, and it'd be stunning to see that in HD.
Guardian Heroes
Man I could just go on >.>
I still play the 2D saturn games from time to time
Dragon Force (I get a strange itch to play it ever other year, and every year I can't put it down tell I'm done)
Astral (I love the beauty. I wish Saturn Emulations allowed filter effects like SNES. The filters would go perfect with the games style, and it'd be stunning to see that in HD.
Guardian Heroes
Man I could just go on >.>
Saturn, dreamcast. I wish i could play em.
I remember the Dreamcast had one game called "blue stinger", i saw previews about it and was always mad to try it out, but never got the chance.
But
I took the chance to play a few games i missed in the PS1 days (i had a N64). So i got Parasite Eve and FF8 on psn.
They both look terrible. Its incredible they really sold games that looked like this. Every single background made of polygons (battles on FF8) just cant stop shaking! If the camera is moving, everything look like an earthquake.
And the character models... jesus! They look like a single blur! You can only see Aya Brea´s face if she gets pretty close to the camera.
im probably spoiled, but they really look pretty bad (But Parasite Eve was great!!!! Played it twice, finished the chrysler building.. the only downside was the ending)
I remember the Dreamcast had one game called "blue stinger", i saw previews about it and was always mad to try it out, but never got the chance.
But
I took the chance to play a few games i missed in the PS1 days (i had a N64). So i got Parasite Eve and FF8 on psn.
They both look terrible. Its incredible they really sold games that looked like this. Every single background made of polygons (battles on FF8) just cant stop shaking! If the camera is moving, everything look like an earthquake.
And the character models... jesus! They look like a single blur! You can only see Aya Brea´s face if she gets pretty close to the camera.
im probably spoiled, but they really look pretty bad (But Parasite Eve was great!!!! Played it twice, finished the chrysler building.. the only downside was the ending)
You can't just say that no one wanted to play Saturn games. The main issue is that most people didn't have Saturns.
I'm sure that if Shining Force III, Panzer Dragoon Saga or any other number of great Saturn games were ported/released on PS1 back in the day they would have sold.
There are a lot of great games on the Saturn, just because they didn't sell it isn't necessarily a reflection on the games themselves. It was more a reflection on the hardware and Sega as a whole.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
PS1 visuals were always shaky and wobbled way too much, and the Saturn had some of it too (though the PS1 had way more "spider-webbing", which to me looked worse than blue shadows).
Games like SFIII and Last Bronx really show off the 3D capabilities of the Saturn, the former in particular.
Games like SFIII and Last Bronx really show off the 3D capabilities of the Saturn, the former in particular.
Dog Problems
Banned
I like the way you think. There was another sequel to Landstalker that was only released in Japan for the Super Famicom called Lady Stalker: Challenge from the Past. The main characters from Land and Lady are in Time Stalkers on Dreamcast, if I'm remembering right. I really miss those isometric games and is part of the reason Bastion was my game of the year for 2011.
All the great 3D games on Saturn need a graphical update. I find them unplayable, personally, because of how aged they look. I just can't stand early 3D.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
Ladystalker was a traditional JRPG, not an isometric stat-heavy action-adventure game like its predecessor.
Darn it, I just want to play Landstalker now.
Darn it, I just want to play Landstalker now.
Dog Problems
Banned
Ah, I see. I've never actually played it.
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
It also had far worse music and presentation, and I'd hesitate to call it a worthy sequel at all. Climax's best games post-Stalker were the Runabout games and Dark Savior.
Dog Problems
Banned
I've never played the Runabout games either but always had my eye on them. Oh, Steal Princess wasn't too bad from what little of it I got to play. It was nice to see them go back to the isometric view point, anyway.
WTF, I thought this was just a joke. How the hell does that happen?
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Exactly. Even with nostalgia goggles on the 3D the Saturn and PSX spewed out is unplayable today.
Best left in the past where it belongs.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Gametap had some kind of exclusive agreement on Saturn games for a while. (They may still have it I dunno.) They even have the rights to do Panzer Saga on their service but they think it's too much effort to put on the service.
GoofsterStud
Member
That agreement ended a while back. It was only for select titles. 
They deemed it a success, but stop continuing it.
They deemed it a success, but stop continuing it.Shadow Hog
Member
As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the entire Sega console library fell off of GameTap a while ago. At the very least, searching for "sega" in their retro games section turns up nothing.
Which is a shame, because they had something good going, considering they had both Saturn and Dreamcast emulation on there (although IIRC the latter was a bit sluggish). Friggin' Chu Chu Rocket and Toy Commander on my PC. Wonder why they dropped that?
Which is a shame, because they had something good going, considering they had both Saturn and Dreamcast emulation on there (although IIRC the latter was a bit sluggish). Friggin' Chu Chu Rocket and Toy Commander on my PC. Wonder why they dropped that?
Dragoon En Regalia
Member
That was a mediocre port from Tantalus, so I could care less. HotD2 is better anyhow.