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[Dr_Cogent]

Because we console owners are more logical.
Up on the pad = looking up

You think? When your eyes look up, they roll back. When your head looks up, it rolls back.

When you are flying a plane/jet, you pull back to go up.

Seems quite logical to me.

 

[dark10x]

I'm not entirely sure why different people have different preferences. I know I like the "up to look up" motion, but I started gaming on the PC first and foremost (never even bothered with a console FPS until Halo). I can't stand inverted controls, though I can use them if I must.

 

[TheSonicRetard]

I litterally can't play a first person game unless the Y Axis is inverted.

3rd person games... I can get around a non-inverted Y axis. But if I'm looking through someones eyes, and the y axis isn't inverted, I can't wrap my brain around it.

As many pointed out, it was flight controls which burned inverted Y axis into my head - most likely Afterburner (which was 3rd person actually).

 

[Sax Russel]

I'm also an inverter. I can probably trace the blame back to Rebel Assault, X-Wing, TIE Fighter back in the day, so flight sim background again.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I thought the first FPS games back in the day to come out that allowed you to look up and down had inverted Y by default.

 

[DrEvil]

I only invert when I'm in a flying game (such as warhawk)... normal FPS, up is up, down is down.... flying... that's another story.

 

[Ourobolus]

See, I never played flight sims. Maybe once or twice, but never for any great length where it would get burned into my brain. I've just always played console FPS games that way.

Not to say that one side is better - that's just how I can only play the games.

 

[Muffdraul]

I thought the first FPS games back in the day to come out that allowed you to look up and down had inverted Y by default.

The first FPSes I remember that allowed you to look up/down were Marathon and System Shock circa 1994, and I don't recall either one of them even giving the option to invert the mouselook Y-axis. As for consoles... hmmmm. The first ones I remember playing that allowed you look up/down were... Tenka? Turok. Goldeneye. Tenka was awful, the look controls were mapped to the PSX controller shoulder buttons. In Turok and Goldeneye, I think they were defaulted to inverted. But I'll say it one more time, I really think that by then it had simply become "tradition" because the most prevalent "first person" games prior to the "contemporary FPS genere" (i.e. starting w/ Wolfenstein 3D/Doom) which allowed up/down control were flying games, whether they were arcade shooters like Tailgunner and Star Hawk or MS Flight Simulator.

 

[bj00rn_]

For me it goes way back. Flight sims and whatnot on PC back in the day. Non-inverted just feels so fucking wrong.

I need to play flight sims inverted, but FPS non-inverted. Can't do it any other way. Even when in a flight sim I need to have the look controls non-inverted while the flight controls are inverted...

 

[beat]

b) 3D/FPS/Etc: The "camera" joystick represents a physical camera in the 3D world. When filming with a camera, you lean forwad to film the ground, you lean backward to film the sky... again, "foward and backward", not "up and down".

And you lean sideways to turn sideways... oh wait, it doesn't work like that!!!

 

[Always-honest]

inverted should be called logical.. or normal

 

[elcapitan]

People actually invert PC mouse controls? I play those normal. For the consoles, I don't care if its for the camera or for first person but I always invert it. The first console FPS I played was inverted so I just naturally acclimated myself to it. Inverting the x-axis only makes sense in 3rd-person games. But if there's no option at all to invert, I'd get used to normal. But given the option, I will always invert. It's just because its the only way I play. Nothing to do with pivots and head motions or any nonsense to justify the way I play.

 

[conman]

In Turok and Goldeneye, I think they were defaulted to inverted. But I'll say it one more time, I really think that by then it had simply become "tradition" because the most prevalent "first person" games prior to the "contemporary FPS genere" (i.e. starting w/ Wolfenstein 3D/Doom) which allowed up/down control were flying games, whether they were arcade shooters like Tailgunner and Star Hawk or MS Flight Simulator.

As said above, Turok gave you no other option than to invert. Goldeneye (released later that same year) gave you the option to change the control scheme--including to the awesome dual-controller style!

But even early PC FPS games (Doom, Wolfenstein, etc.) avoided the y-axis altogether. There was no way to look up or down. Not sure when the y-axis was introduced (maybe around the same time as Descent and Doom II?).

 

[TheSonicRetard]

And you lean sideways to turn sideways... oh wait, it doesn't work like that!!!

Except it does.

 

[Muffdraul]

But even early PC FPS games (Doom, Wolfenstein, etc.) avoided the y-axis altogether. There was no way to look up or down. Not sure when the y-axis was introduced (maybe around the same time as Descent and Doom II?).

Like I said- Marathon and System Shock.

 

[sparky2112]

Inverter here too. Good to know I've got plenty of company.

My kids think I have to do it because I'm old. I don't have the heart to tell them they think that because they're stupid.

 

[ScrabbleBanshee]

The first FPSes I remember that allowed you to look up/down were Marathon and System Shock circa 1994, and I don't recall either one of them even giving the option to invert the mouselook Y-axis.

I don't remember much about Marathon (By the time it came to PC, it was already badly outdated), but System Shock I'm pretty sure didn't give you the option to mouselook up and down at all, you had to use keys on the keyboard to do this... I'm pretty sure somebody can argue about the relative position of the keys needed to look up and down for the sake of a fight regarding inversion.

I think Heretic worked similarly using keys to look up and down, you were never required to "aim" up in these games to shoot things. I don't remember Doom ever having a look up/down option.

For FPS games, I'm pretty sure the shooting at things by aiming off the 2D plane (shots automatically travelling above/below you a-la doom does not count) first came with Quake.

 

[Dega]

I dont have a problem with either :S.

 

[arne]

You think? When your eyes look up, they roll back. When your head looks up, it rolls back.

When you are flying a plane/jet, you pull back to go up.

Seems quite logical to me.

but that's why "flight controls" are "inverted" from the normal.

 

[sparky2112]

I used to use inverted camera controls and first-person controls, on PC and console, but playing first-person games on the Wii - COD, MP3, Elebits, etc. - where non-inverted controls are totally natural have got me out of the habit on all systems. I still need inverted camera control however.

I don't think the Wii controller is at all synonymous with the PS360. I'm fine with the Wii as-is, but play like a (Tropic Thunder moment here) retard if the PS360 isn't inverted.

 

[Magnus]

Typically, I'll use inversion where it feels more natural, with vehicle control in games, especially flight. But for first-person shooters, I'll use the natural 'up-is'up' argument to explain why that feels better to me. But recently, I've experienced a problem with either. When I threw in Halo 3 last fall, I used inverted and found myself constantly trying to use up-is-up, and when I un-inverted it, I often found myself trying to use an inverted control scheme. I felt all fucked trying to figure it out, and turned the game off in disgust. :lol

Strangely, this problem didn't occur with Bioshock or Orange Box.

At least we can all agree on one thing here though; console analog controls for shooters fucking suck. Mouse for life.

*runs away*

 

[Dr_Cogent]

I think one of the very first FPSs that you could look up and down in was Rise of the Triad. Was that inverted by default or no?

 

[sammy]

Inverter here too. Good to know I've got plenty of company.

My kids think I have to do it because I'm old. I don't have the heart to tell them they think that because they're stupid.

:lol :lol

you should bust out some flight sims for 'em. they'll catch on real quick.

it all seemed so natural to me always, since you never can "push up" on a controller you hold horizontally. and an analog stick is just a tiny flight stick for the thumb

I'm even inverted on the DS when it comes to FPS and starfox

 

[conman]

Like I said- Marathon and System Shock.

IIRC, in these games there was very limited up and down looking, and I'm pretty sure they weren't mapped to the mouse so there was no real "axis" to worry about.

 

[starchild excalibur]

Because we console owners are more logical.
Up on the pad = looking up

well gosh

that just makes too much sense

I don't see how it's more logical in any type of game (with the exception being flight simulators) that up = down. just because it'd been the norm doesn't make it any more logical.

 

[szaromir]

With mouse, non-inverted controls are natural to me.
With thumbstick, inverted Y axis is a must for me. I tend to think of thumb stick as a 'neck' of the main character, so that when I push neck forward I look down etc.

 

[Broseybrose]

Hell, even some of my PC FPS buddies push the mouse forward to look up. They just never cared for flight sims.

im one of those people that push up on the mouse to look up, and im HEAVY into flight sims also. on a gamepad though, i have to play inverted. i used to be that way on pc, but something changed and i decided to try normal, and liked it better.

i guess, if im pushing a stick, then up must = down. but with a mouse, up must = up.

 

[Muffdraul]

I don't remember much about Marathon (By the time it came to PC, it was already badly outdated), but System Shock I'm pretty sure didn't give you the option to mouselook up and down at all

Both games offered both keyboard or mouselook option. For System Shock it might have been a patch or mod that came after it was released. Marathon offered mouselook out of the box.

 

[StranGER]

Because we console owners are more logical.
Up on the pad = looking up

but that is false.

if you cut your head off at the neck and stuck it on the controller and then you looked up. you would actually be tiltling down on in relation to the pad (inverted y) the pad. it's similar to a pilot and pulling back to go up on an airplane really.

it's logical , especially in a FPS and flying games as well.

 

[poppabk]

People actually invert PC mouse controls? I play those normal. For the consoles, I don't care if its for the camera or for first person but I always invert it. The first console FPS I played was inverted so I just naturally acclimated myself to it. Inverting the x-axis only makes sense in 3rd-person games. But if there's no option at all to invert, I'd get used to normal. But given the option, I will always invert. It's just because its the only way I play. Nothing to do with pivots and head motions or any nonsense to justify the way I play.

See I'm pretty sure the "normal" controls in Jedi Knight were what we would now call inverted but I can't be sure. It definitely defaulted to mouse forward = look down, and if it is the first game you play then that is what you get used to, people justify what they are used to. In 1st person if you push backwards to go forwards then you are probably gonna struggle to justify that, but in a lot of 3rd person games, the directions your character moves are relative to the location of the camera - down can be left, right, forwards, backwards or a combination of the two at any one time.

 

[soldat7]

if you cut your head off at the neck and stuck it on the controller...

This should be a Mortal Kombat move.

 

[140.85]

It feels right when you're flying something, but for a FPS with joysticks, pushing down to go up just doesn't feel right IMO.

 

[soul creator]

for non-inverted players, aiming controls are interpreted as just a cursor moving on a 2D plane. So, pressing up moves it up, pressing down moves it down. For them, the game might as well be a light-gun style shooter, and you're just blindly moving a cursor around.

but for inverted players, controls are interpreted as the player's character tilting their head forward (looks down), or tilting their head back (looks up). So from that perspective, inversion makes perfect sense.

Therefore, inverted players are more immersed into the game, and have a superior sense of enjoyment while playing

:lol

 

[jon bones]

Because we console owners are more logical.
Up on the pad = looking up

Yea... inverse controls seem incredibly unintuitive to me. although after reading some people's logic in this thread, i can see why someone might feel as though it were more intuitive for them.

 

[The Faceless Master]

i have a hard enough time trying to force myself to not play southpaw, not having inverted would be a clusterfuck.

games need 100% configurable controls.

 

[Muffdraul]

games need 100% configurable controls.

Agree 100%. IMO any game that ships with a non-configurable 3D camera = instant fail... to some degree. I love the shit out of FFXII, but I remember the day it came out and I booted it up for the first time, as soon as I moved the camera I thought "Ah, I see they've defaulted the camera control to inverted X-axis, just like they did with Dirge of Cerberus. Idiots. No problemo, I'll just open the menu and go to Configure and change that... aaaaand... what the fuck? Where are the camera options??? WHERE ARE THE CAMERA OPTIONS?!?!!?! NOOOOoooooOOOOOOOooooOOOOOO!"

 

[Junior Asparagus]

I've NEVER met anyone who thought inverted was more "natural" or better than regular (up=up). This goes for both PC and Console.
I didn't even know there were people who had inverted on PC.. pushing the mouse forward to look down?? That's the craziest thing I've heard all day.

I definitely do. Although I don't play too many FPS and flight sims, when I do, I invert Y-axis for pretty much everything. Not really sure why.

X-axis is more of a case-by-case basis. The main thing is that a lot of games ONLY allow you to invert Y and not X, so that's less jarring.

Top Gun on the NES. End of story for me.

That's really funny, now that you mention it. That was probably my first flight game and my first experience with inverted controls.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Call me crazy but in my world, up is usually up. Go figure.

We're not all from Brazil where hot snow falls up into the sky.

 

[beat]

Except it does.

Think harder. If the thumbstick really was like how your head is mounted on your neck, then you would _twist_ the thumbstick to turn left or right, not tilt it sideways.

 

[Naked Snake]

I don't know how people have play with "normal" y-axis controls. Inverted should be called normal, it feels way more natural.

This.

I can't play MGS4 without going into Options and inverting ALL camera controls, there are like 8 of them.

 

[Projectjustice]

I play all my FPS with the Y-axis inverted. Its due to me playing hours of Top Gun on NES.

The game was in FPS mode and the controls came in an inverted mode due to the pitch on the plane you were flying. Dont worry OP, all my friends think im crazy too when I invert the Y axis.:lol

 

[Coolio McAwesome]

If you play a game with the mindset that you are controlling the cursor, then up should be up and inverted controls would make no sense. However, if you are playing a game with the mindset that you are contolling the character, then an inverted y-axis is clearly more logical.

Lean forward right now and tell me what happens. Now lean back. As you can see, a forward motion is associated with looking down while a backward motion is associated with looking up.

Inverted is much more intuitive and should be considered "normal."

 

[TOAO_Cyrus]

Um I dont know what your talking about, I cant think of one PC FPS where the default is inverted y axis and I have never ever played a first person game that way. It just feels wierd and counter intuitive and would be extremly imprecise. The only time it ever feels right is in flying games.

 

[poppabk]

Um I dont know what your talking about, I cant think of one PC FPS where the default is inverted y axis and I have never ever played a first person game that way. It just feels wierd and counter intuitive and would be extremly imprecise. The only time it ever feels right is in flying games.

How is it any less precise?

 

[PataHikari]

If you play a game with the mindset that you are controlling the cursor, then up should be up and inverted controls would make no sense. However, if you are playing a game with the mindset that you are contolling the character, then an inverted y-axis is clearly more logical.

Lean forward right now and tell me what happens. Now lean back. As you can see, a forward motion is associated with looking down while a backward motion is associated with looking up.

Inverted is much more intuitive and should be considered "normal."

You're moving your view up.

...to move the view up, you need to push down?

That's not intuitive at all.

 

[inpHilltr8r]

This thread should have ended at the first mention of flight simulators.

 

[TheSonicRetard]

Think harder. If the thumbstick really was like how your head is mounted on your neck, then you would _twist_ the thumbstick to turn left or right, not tilt it sideways.

When you turn, whether you realize it or not, you DO tilt. It's a side effect of shifting your body weight.

You can see this easily when running really fast and trying to make a tight turn. You'll tilt your body into the turn.

 

[USD]

I initially played inverted because of GoldenEye. Once Halo rolled around, though, I basically had to relearn to play FPS. I could have stuck with legacy controls, but I want for the default, and the dual analog setup destroyed my mind. Once I got it down I stuck with non-inverted. I don't see where there are all these, "wah wah, I can't play non-inverted" people are coming from, give me a few minutes of adjustment and I can play inverted just fine. Man up.

 

[BakedPigeon]

Ever since I played Goldeneye I have been Inverted.

It feels much more natural, and it makes sense to. It's just like flying a plane, you wouldn't nosedive right into the ground would you? No, so I wouldn't play my games on default either.

 

[Pasco]

I don't know what PC FPSes people in this thread have been playing, because I have never played one that inverts the mouse by default...

Not that I've played every PC FPS, but I can honestly never ever remember having to switch off inverted controls, and I would sure as hell never switch them on.