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[Ledsen]

So this is a stealth brag post. Not really stealth actually. I'm sorry about that. But I'm also super curious about how people handle... well, working and especially family life without the privilieges I'm so used to.

I live in Sweden with a wife and a two-year old. Over here we have a mandatory 5 weeks vacation per year for everyone. Work at many places, especially at offices and less so in manufacturing, practically shuts down in july-august because most people are away for 3-4 weeks. I know this is very common across Europe (I think France and Norway even have 6 weeks) so it's not something unique to Sweden by any means.

We also have 480 days paid parental leave per child (this is cumulative), which can be split however you want between the parents. During 390 days you get 80% of your normal salary paid by the state, and many employers pay an extra 10% on top so you get 90% of your normal salary. During the remaining 90 days you get a very low amount of money (~$20 per day). You can use these 480 days however you please until your child is 12 years old. Most people take 12-18 months off when the child is born and then save days to prolong vacations and stuff during the coming years. My wife took 8 months off when our kid was born, and then I took 8 months off after she went back to work.

So for you guys who live in countries without these privileges: How do you manage? Without several weeks of vacation each year, I feel like I would be burnt out in a few years. I'm sure if I had to, I would manage fine, but it seems ill-advised from an employee health standpoint.

But really, the big thing is the parental leave. I know in the US there is NO paid parental leave. This to me is insane. How are you guys supposed to raise a child, let alone several? Does one parent stay home without pay until the child can be put in daycare? Do you put them in daycare from day one? How much is daycare (we pay around $150 per month but if we have more kids we get a discount for each kid so it doesn't get out of hand)? If you have one parent stay home, do you actually manage to live on just one person's salary? I know this was possible over here 40-50 years ago but now it would be really difficult. We have high income taxes (20-30% for most people) but many states in the US do as well AFAIK and you don't get free education, free health care etc so you have to pay for that. How to people cope? Do employers in the US have benefits that rival the state-mandated ones here in Sweden?

Super interested in hearing you guys' answers, especially from parent who I can imagine do not have it easy.

 

[StarPlatinumTheWorld]

I get 5 paid weeks vacation every year, dunno about child stuff as I don't have any lol. I live in the UK.

 

[ISOM]

There is paid maternity leave in many jobs in the US but it's not law.

 

[RiccochetJ]

I'm just really tired I guess. Seeing as you're all super interested and stuff.

Congrats.

 

[Zoggy]

We get to say we're american

🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

 

[panty]

I'm from the same boat as OP and I too think about this sometimes. It's a difficult subject because of how different our work cultures are.

It's friday and I took the day off. Unpaid sure but a day off still and it doesn't affect my employment whatsoever.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

It's like you're from a different planet. Maybe it's due to the size of the US, but I can never imagine people getting 480 days *per child*... holy crap.

Youre so damn lucky.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

The concept of limited sick days is the craziest thing I have learned about on GAF labor wise

 

[Indrid Cold1]

It's got to be that bootstraps work ethic.

I would go nuts without my 6 weeks paid annual leave a year. Im actually off work on annual leave right now lol. Feels goodman.

 

[Stasis]

It's pretty awful in many parts of the US, that much I know. Here in Quebec it's awesome. Not as much as you guys though! Depends on the job when it comes to pay percentages.

Paternity leave is 5 weeks at 70% salary from QPIP benefits.

Maternity leave is a maximum of 18 continuous weeks at 70% also via QPIP.

Parental leave can be split however is desired and will run 32 weeks. It's tacked on after maternal/paternal. First 7 weeks are also at 70% while the last 25 weeks are at 50%. Though certain professions are better. My gf is a RN and will get 90/70 vs. 70/50.

And then we get a monthly amount per child that recently increased. It varies per household income. If income is above $100k you get like $200/month per kid I believe. Significantly more for lower income families.

 

[Magwik]

Barely.

 

[MaxDOL]

Well...work or end up on the street.

It really simple...

 

[ZackieChan]

I'm from the same boat as OP and I too think about this sometimes. It's a difficult subject because of how different our work cultures are.

It's friday and I took the day off. Unpaid sure but a day off still and it doesn't affect my employment whatsoever.

Yeah, if only Americans could get to have unpaid days off!

Spoiler

We do.

Many jobs also give maternity leave and more vacation (though not usually 5 weeks), but it isn't federally mandated, iirc. However, there's a certain level of job/wage below which you don't get those benefits. I believe that should change.

My question is - if everyone leaves for a month or so during the year, how do you get the work done that needs to be done. For instance, I'm an attorney, and people's attorney needs don't just stop because you're on vacation. If I was at a firm and everyone left for a month, who handles the work? Seems very unbelievable to me, but probably because I've never been in a system like that.

 

[travisbickle]

People adapt to the conditions they find themselves in.

The sad part is the Internet has shown people are willing to blame themselves when it's clearly the failure of the system.

 

[EdwardTeach]

150 a month for daycare is Insanely cheap! We were paying about £80/day in London, and around £50-60 outside of London. Ages 3 & 4 you get 15hrs free/week.

I'm in UK, so we are pretty decent, though not nearly as good as Sweden. I don't know the exact set up in the uk and it will depend on the the employer. My wife took a year off for each child. I think she got 3 months full pay (which is up to the employer) and then several months of statutory maternity pay, which is very low. Our kids had a parent at home (mostly me) the youngest started full time school (4), which was a luxury.

 

[RiccochetJ]

It's got to be that bootstraps work ethic.

I would go nuts without my 6 weeks paid annual leave a year. Im actually off work on annual leave right now lol. Feels goodman.

You managed to diminish people who work 20 hours a day to get their company off the ground. While you were doing that, you were bragging about much vacation you get. And then rub in to the people who are trying to work for a living around here who would love to have time with their families or hell, even to decompress.

Am I jealous? Sure. But boy do I not think highly of you right now. I don't think I'm alone.

 

[Septimus Prime]

We have a nanny. She costs about half of one of our salaries, so that helps out with the childcare. I also have intermittent parental leave--up to six weeks, non-sequential, paid at 55% salary, tax exempt. My wife had 8 weeks of maternity.

But yeah, we don't have that many regular vacation days, which sucks. Maybe 2 weeks or so per year.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Yeah, if only Americans could get to have unpaid days off!

Spoiler

We do.

Many jobs also give maternity leave and more vacation (though not usually 5 weeks), but it isn't federally mandated, iirc. However, there's a certain level of job/wage below which you don't get those benefits. I believe that should change.

My question is - if everyone leaves for a month or so during the year, how do you get the work done that needs to be done. For instance, I'm an attorney, and people's attorney needs don't just stop because you're on vacation. If I was at a firm and everyone left for a month, who handles the work? Seems very unbelievable to me, but probably because I've never been in a system like that.

Yeah the only thing I can think of is that most places hire more people than a comparable operation would have in America, to make up for the people leaving.

 

[XBP]

I get 2 weeks vacation that can go up to 9 weeks the longer I work in the company. Only been here for 2.5 years. It should go up to 3 after 3 years. Canada, working in retail management. So its not really that bad everything considered.

 

[ZackieChan]

Yeah the only thing I can think of is that most places hire more people than a comparable operation would have in America, to make up for the people leaving.

And while I get that it's nice and all, for a small business (which I believe are the biggest employer in the US) it is not feasible to literally pay people for years and months at a time without them doing work. People on gaf like to think that every place of business is raking in the money and purposefully screwing employees, but the reality is often much different.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

You managed to diminish people who work 20 hours a day to get their company off the ground. While you were doing that, you were bragging about much vacation you get. And then rub in to the people who are trying to work for a living around here who would love to have time with their families or hell, even to decompress.

Am I jealous? Sure. But boy do I not think highly of you right now. I don't think I'm alone.

Ayy

 

[EdwardTeach]

Yeah, if only Americans could get to have unpaid days off!

Spoiler

We do.

Many jobs also give maternity leave and more vacation (though not usually 5 weeks), but it isn't federally mandated, iirc. However, there's a certain level of job/wage below which you don't get those benefits. I believe that should change.

My question is - if everyone leaves for a month or so during the year, how do you get the work done that needs to be done. For instance, I'm an attorney, and people's attorney needs don't just stop because you're on vacation. If I was at a firm and everyone left for a month, who handles the work? Seems very unbelievable to me, but probably because I've never been in a system like that.

People work around it. For example you would be crazy to try and get any deals done with the French over the summer as everyone is away.

 

[Media]

Basically, American work ethic frowns on taking any time off. If you call in sick your scum. Merica fuck yeah.

 

[cheezcake]

And while I get that it's nice and all, for a small business (which I believe are the biggest employer in the US) it is not feasible to literally pay people for years and months at a time without them doing work. People on gaf like to think that every place of business is raking in the money and purposefully screwing employees, but the reality is often much different.

It is almost entirely subsidised by the state though. Paying only 10% of someones salary, you'll raise a lot of goodwill from the employee, you wont have to retrain once they're back at work which is an expense in itself, happier employees are more productive employees. Of course for an unskilled job this is mostly moot unfortunately, but there's an argument that a system like Sweden's is not such a burden on small business as it may initially seem.

Regardless, these laws are a product of culture. And we're all gonna be long dead before American work culture stops being the disgusting shitshow it is today.

 

[sonto340]

And while I get that it's nice and all, for a small business (which I believe are the biggest employer in the US) it is not feasible to literally pay people for years and months at a time without them doing work. People on gaf like to think that every place of business is raking in the money and purposefully screwing employees, but the reality is often much different.

Then we need to find a way to implement systems that make it possible. Other countries find ways to do it, I don't see why it's inconceivable for the US to do the same.

 

[Ledsen]

Yeah, if only Americans could get to have unpaid days off!

Spoiler

We do.

Many jobs also give maternity leave and more vacation (though not usually 5 weeks), but it isn't federally mandated, iirc. However, there's a certain level of job/wage below which you don't get those benefits. I believe that should change.

My question is - if everyone leaves for a month or so during the year, how do you get the work done that needs to be done. For instance, I'm an attorney, and people's attorney needs don't just stop because you're on vacation. If I was at a firm and everyone left for a month, who handles the work? Seems very unbelievable to me, but probably because I've never been in a system like that.

Simple... attorneys get the privilege of having a shit vacation where they have to be available to work unless someone covers their case while they're away. My friend does this. I guess it gets easier as you get higher up the food chain.

For other jobs where the exact person isn't as important, they hire temps.

 

[ZackieChan]

Then we need to find a way to implement systems that make it possible. Other countries find ways to do it, I don't see why it's inconceivable for the US to do the same.

It's going to take government subsidies, because businesses don't magically make more money, unfortunately.

Basically, American work ethic frowns on taking any time off. If you call in sick your scum. Merica fuck yeah.

Every job I've had has no problem with me calling out sick. Posts like this, which only present an extreme view that isn't true of "America" are ridiculous. Yes, there are terrible work cultures like that, I'm sure. Amazon's, I believe, was ridiculous. But don't present it like it's like this all over.

People work around it. For example you would be crazy to try and get any deals done with the French over the summer as everyone is away.

That's gotta be super annoying. Working around Chinese new year for my board game clients is annoying enough. A whole season? Smh

Also, regarding the need for retraining mentioned above, that's probably why this kind of thing doesn't exist in jobs where not much training is necessary (fast food, retail). Jobs where it is actually worth keeping an employee on after a few months or a year off will generally pay to retain that employee, I'd think. It's all a cost-benefit analysis if not mandated and supported financially by the government.

 

[Transistor]

I had to use my two weeks of vacation when my daughter was born. My wife had to use short term disability.

It fucking sucks

 

[Randam]

And while I get that it's nice and all, for a small business (which I believe are the biggest employer in the US) it is not feasible to literally pay people for years and months at a time without them doing work. People on gaf like to think that every place of business is raking in the money and purposefully screwing employees, but the reality is often much different.

of course the country is supporting the businesses.

 

[Mendrox]

And while I get that it's nice and all, for a small business (which I believe are the biggest employer in the US) it is not feasible to literally pay people for years and months at a time without them doing work. People on gaf like to think that every place of business is raking in the money and purposefully screwing employees, but the reality is often much different.

ehm...no. but many countries know nowadays that people need time for rest to work more efficently. there are many studies about that. Businesses dont have more employees to make that work... even our start up trend in Germany is like that because young people are leaders in these business and our work ethic evolves even further by not having to stay at work, but rather having the option to be where you want to be if it is possible in your work area.

I couldnt live with thaf few vacation days or rather I would hate my life.

 

[ZackieChan]

of course the country is supporting the businesses.

I don't believe there is such a mechanism in the US, even when it is required. Many on gaf would say that, in those cases, the business shouldn't exist.

 

[Ledsen]

I had to use my two weeks of vacation when my daughter was born. My wife had to use short term disability.

It fucking sucks

This makes me angry. Having children should be encouraged and facilitated by the government and not be a huge burden on lower income families. Those kids are the ones who will grow up to run the country after all.

 

[Transistor]

This makes me angry. Having children should be encouraged and facilitated by the government and not be a huge burden on lower income families. Those kids are the ones who will grow up to run the country after all.

It's one of the reasons my wife and I waited so long before having kids. We wanted to make sure we were financially stable before doing so.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

ZackieChan is just an apologist of the status quo. Especially, since he is single and lives independent internationally.

He doesn't exactly get parenthood, or the problems inherit in it.

Most, including my parents, just try and make do when we were younger, and had a newborn.

 

[ZackieChan]

It's one of the reasons my wife and I waited so long before having kids. We wanted to make sure we were financially stable before doing so.

Lest someone think I don't agree, I believe that the govt should absolutely be taking care of people in this way.

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

Work keeps my mind off of things in my life right now (for the most part) so I wouldn't dream of taking time off for the foreseeable future. I actually have around 200 or so hours of PTO built up, but my job is my life right now. When I am at work, my mind is busy and constant. Away from work, I dwell on things and it puts me in a bad spot mentally. My job keeps me sane, so why deviate from that? In better times, I just took random days off when I felt the urge.But now, I would rather work.

As for parental leave, I have no kids and doubt I ever will so meh.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I support Clinton, because parental leave is going to be an actual policy.

 

[Maedre]

We got six weeks vacation Herr in Germany and we schedule our Projekt so that half of the company is able to work the remaining Projects off.
There ia a six weeks period in the Summer where moat parents are around three weeks in vacation. It Works.
Around Christmas is the next Time where many leave for two weeks. But every company we work woth is at this time @ Low Power mode.

In this year i had 32 days of until now and was on top of that 10 days sick.
When i Take my days off and get sick in that Time and go to the doctor i get These vacation days Back.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

We got six weeks vacation Herr in Germany and we schedule our Projekt so that half of the company is able to work the remaining Projects off.
There ia a six weeks period in the Summer where moat parents are around three weeks in vacation. It Works.
Around Christmas is the next Time where many leave for two weeks. But every company we work woth is at this time @ Low Power mode.

In this year i had 32 days of until now and was on top of that 10 days sick.
When i Take my days off and get sick in that Time and go to the doctor i get These vacation days Back.

Think of the small business!?
Said, no one ever.

 

[thetrin]

I get 15 days of vacation for the whole year. Woo, go Japan!

 

[Skelter]

What a stupid question. We do it because we have to. I'd love time off but that's why I'm in school.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

What a stupid question. We do it because we have to. I'd love time off but that's why I'm in school.

That isn't an excuse. A lot of countries have vacation laws. Vacations, or medical/paternal/maternal, leave should not be a privilege.

 

[Maedre]

Think of the small business!?
Said, no one ever.

But this is a Small Business.

 

[SillyEskimo]

My wife had 4 months paid leave per child. I took 2 weeks off for each one when they were born then went back to work but had to use PTO. I had to keep my PTO in order to flex around issues that might arrive later in the year. Men in the US get the shaft on time off for a new baby.

I didn't think it was too bad really. I get 9 weeks a year PTO, my wife gets 4 or 5. I know it's a lot less than me, lol.

We managed by planning well in advance. We also did not require child care because my wife works from home and I have flex time. I can work my 40hrs a week anyway I want during the 7 day work week. That flexibility was vital to our growing family. Sometimes I would work 12hrs Sat & Sun and then fill in my other 16 hours throughout the rest of the weekdays working 6pm till 10pm for 4 days. Whatever it took to ensure my wife's job took top priority for our family, I worked around.

So my answer is planning.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

But this is a Small Business.

I meant that in an American mindset of work before life. I was sarcastic.

 

[woolley]

Honestly a five week vacation sounds worse to me. I don't know what I would do with all that time, I would be absolutely bored and miserable to whole time.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

Honestly a five week vacation sounds worse to me. I don't know what I would do with all that time, I would be absolutely bored and miserable to whole time.

People travel. They have family get togethers. I haven't heard a complaint from my European relatives.
Way better than having the privilege of accumulating sick days for the equivalent, which is fucked up.

 

[Badabing]

I wouldn't work at a place without good benefits. Funny thing is I rarely use them all. My company offers:

6 month maternity leave
3 month paternity leave
25 vacation days
10 sick days
2 personal days

They also have a 'sick event' that can span weeks to months if needed

USA based btw

 

[Butane123]

I haven't taken a week off since July 2015...

I get 2 weeks paid, but my company allows for unlimited personal/sick days as long as you don't abuse it. I took tomorrow off since I've had it crazy the last few weeks.

 

[Redders]

2 personal days

Out of interest what are personal days? Seems just like an additional 2 vacation days (Holiday days for me) or are they for doctors appointments etc.