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How does PopGAF deal witht the fact that...
- Thread starter JJDinomite
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True, but I could imagine others doing it. However, even that example is more about what marketing niche the artist chose and how the song relates to that niche. I think if either Gaga or Perry had swapped niches and vibes from the start then, yeah, Perry would sound good as well. And I'm not so sure how much the vibe/niche and artists ends up in is entirely their choice either...
But like I said, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the music they produce.
Z..
Member
I agree. But the thing with Popgaf is meaningful discussion gets completely thrown out the window and the whole thing becomes a dick measuring contest where showmanship seems to be the most valued asset. They don't seem to care about the music itself.
And I say this as huge pop fan. When the new St. Vincent came out I ventured into Popgaf seeking some sort of discussion and it's just a barren wasteland of non sequiturs and gifs. It's way too infantile compared to any other music thread on Gaf.
Hell, want an even better example? When Beyonce's self titled album from 2013 came out I was very surprised at how genuinely good it was and decided I had to see if Popgaf was as excited about it as I was. Turns out they were even more excited, but they really didn't seem to care about the music that much. It's a very weird approach to music that seems to be somewhat exclusive to that particular realm of fandom (at least within gaf).
Cult of personality, as someone already said, seems to be the driving force behind most of their discussions.
To each their own and I won't judge them or think less of them for liking what they do. I love alot of crap as well! I'm still in love with Chief Keef's stuff even though it's lowest common denominator bullshit. You like what you like and that's just fine.
What really confuses me is how deluded some people are in there about their own tastes. They genuinely seem to be incapable of distinguishing their taste from their impartial opinion.
You're just demonstrating that you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Like, what makes these conversations so hard to have when they pop up is that, for some reason, when it comes to Pop music, people refuse to acknowledge and accept that they don't know what the hell they're talking about, and that their opinion on the finer machinations of the Pop industry are completely invalid for this reason. Only with Pop music do you have people admitting they don't know shit while simultaneously talking like they're experts.
PopGAF could sit here and provide evidence in the form of interviews, song credits, backstage rehearsal footage, etc. demonstrating how a lot of pop stars actually collaborate with their production teams and contribute to the music they create. We could go over how Katy Perry could not possibly create a Lady Gaga song, or how Dr. Luke's production differs from Darkchild's and which artists these guys work best with, and how Jermaine Dupri creates amazing music with Mariah Carey but utter shit when he works with Janet Jackson and why that is. We can spill the tea on how Christina Aguilera is largely responsible for what Pop music sounds like today, and how unappreciated Sweden is (although I'm pretty sure Sai-kun and Cosmic Bus would prefer to spill the tea on that injustice). We can talking about how Zedd differs from Avicii differs from Afrojack differs from Calvin Harris differs from David Guetta (even though they all kind of sound the same and need to be thrown in a pit and never allowed to produce again, in my opinion). We can talk about how which pop acts can actually sing, which ones can't, and when when this actually matters. We can talk about how Lana Del Rey and her genius is responsible for this recent sad-ass-white-girls-with-narrow-vocal-ranges-singing-about-depressing-shit-over-vaguely-urban-beats craze (Hi Lorde, Banks, London Grammar) and how all these trollops need to kiss her ring.
We could go over allllllll of this, and it wouldn't mean shit so long as you and posters like you hold on to your belief that you've got Pop music's number because you listened to a bit of Top 40.
I mean, it would be like me going into a NASCAR thread and talking about how dumb the sport is because "it's just cars going vrooom around a track."
It's like people thinking Macklemore is the only rapper with anything to say.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Never understood why that mattered. Do Opera singers write their own material? actors write all their own movies?
Such a nitpicky thing, it's a good detector for me of pretentious people.
Such a nitpicky thing, it's a good detector for me of pretentious people.
That same argument can be said about rappers, metalheads, opera singers etc. It also applies to movies. There is always an artist that can make the original song sound good maybe in those rare cases even better in the same way some actors might play the role equally, better or worse than the original actor but not everyone can do a good job at it. I think you guys are just going over trivial stuff there.
Freaky Fred
Banned
what's popGAF?
are they the people who post weird reaction gifs that make no sense?
are they the people who post weird reaction gifs that make no sense?
Z..
Member
No. oO
Where does this idea come from? It's incredibly narrow minded.
I love alot of stuff that I consider bad music. How self centered and insecure do you have to be to actually belive everything you like is immediately good?
I love Katy Perry's TGIF, but it's an absolutely terrible song. One of my favourite songs ever, but it fucking sucks and I know it.
Taste is subjective. Quality is at the very least partially objective. Can't you tell when something you like is bad? Ever?
Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
i think maybe check your math
and this is just dumb semantics
no one cares enough to make the distinction "wow i love this song so much!!!! even though i know its so bad" because 1. it's unnecessary and 2. guilty pleasures are for people with no backbone, especially in a thread about pop music
Never Forever
Member
I think he means that Rihanna has seven albums but has still only sold 27 million, compared to Gaga and Taylor who are at that number with three/four respectively.
Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
Each community do things their own way. WWE Thread is basically PopGaf with WWE gifs all the time. You can see the discussions happen there but if you enter the thread at random every few months or years then I can understand you not getting how PopGaf functions. Sure the gif usage is over the top but it is part of many other communities and the music gets discussed and even in previous OTs people would write their own reviews and we even have multiple posters giving music recommendations. PopGaf might be over the top but judging by the superficial stuff instead of the content in the thread is wrong. There will be times the thread will be a mess and more if the clashes happen but PopGaf is pretty much like any other community.
SecretMoblin
Member
Z..
Member
Real music like metal? What?
No music is realer than any other. Hell, pop is one of my fav genres! Pop, Progressive electronic (JMJ, Tangerine Dream, that sort of thing) and hip hop are my 3 favourite genres. I like metal as well, but what does that have to do with anything I said? I mentioned Metal gaf and hip hop gaf because they seem to be the largest musical threads besides Popgaf.
Okay. Thanks for the input.
Who says they're guilty pleasures? I'm not ashamed of my taste at all. Variety is the spice of life, that's the only point I'm trying to make.
You're the ones who seem to think it's wrong to like something when it sucks, since you're the ones who are always up in arms whenever something you like is legitimately attacked.
Z..
Member
I did say partially objective because you can't rule out taste entirely. But you can't seriously tell me you can't notice something has quality even if you don't like it... As with everything that is born of humanity, it's a highly subjective topic, but there are enough parameters you can evaluate to determine something's intrinsic worth.
As much as I absolutely hate Emerson, Lake & Palmer, I can still see why it's good music. Compositionally and musically, it's undeniably good.
If you guys can't see it, that's fine. But alot of us aren't that self centered when it comes to discussing things. I don't care if something is good or not when I'm listening to it, all that matters is wether or not I like it. But when you discuss something, you need more than that, otherwise "discussion" itself becomes pointless.
kitchenmotors
Banned
this thread gave me a headache, its like watching a parody at this point
so imma just leave this here
note how songwriters Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga are able to sell more albums than hacks like Rihanna who put very little into their music, some of us do care
Rihanna puts a lot of effort into her music, her last album won a GRAMMY. Thanks and goodbye. You're dismissed. Hopefully, like Rihanna, Gags can win one with ARTPOP. Hopefully, like Rihanna, Gags can clock a #1 hit. Hopefully, like Rihanna, Gags' album can scan platinum.
Quoted for educational purposes.
Crumpet Trumpet
Banned
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yassss, give Sky Ferreira her props!
Looks like one of the Olsen twins.
Z..
Member
This is actually very true. I apologize for the rash categorization on my part. It's true that I've never deeply explored it. Been there plenty of times, but not regularly enough to properly understand how the community works. Sorry about that.
kitchenmotors
Banned
Booty Patrol
Banned
but wait
banks is better than lana tho
banks is better than lana tho
freenudemacusers
Member
i think we can all agree that there is a difference between commercial art and high art especially in music. high art electronic music like autechre is the genesis from which commercial pop artist producers derive their inspiration, filtering the difficult aesthetics for less educated and attentive audiences. nothing wrong with this at all imo.
Parameters like what?
It's shit. There, I just denied it.
It has nothing to do with being self-centered. It has everything to do with acknowledging the fact that no one is a better judge of an art forms' objective worth than anyone else. I find that generally when people try to argue that there's a difference between objective quality and personal taste that they've bought into a method of judgement that's different, but just as arbitrary as their own.
SecretMoblin
Member
Here's something that a lot of people don't understand about PopGAF: we spend a lot of time talking about pop stars in contexts other than music because pop stars tend to be more involved in general pop culture. They give us more to talk about than just their music. Especially the big ones. So you're going to see a lot of "non-music" talk in a Pop thread. It's just how it is.
It's very similar to the K-Pop thread. Go in there and there will often be pages of discussion that doesn't include music. But that's because a lot of K-Pop acts tend to be cultural icons in general. There's simply much more to talk about than just the music, even though the music is important.
Also, if you wonder into PopGAF expecting conversation about the latest Pop release and you don't see it, join the conversation. PopGAF IS only made up of Gaffers talking about the pop music they like (and shading the music they don't). We have members who do a lot to introduce the community to new music (Vazduh, Aguila, Artemisia[RIP], Booty Patrol), but we're not omniscient: shit will fall through the cracks.
Come on in, say hi, we're actually really welcoming to juniors. But don't get mad at us and shade us in OT because we weren't talking about the music you wanted us to be talking about when you decided to come lurk on us.
Supermanisdead
Member
what's a banks
her album little red slays
teruterubozu
Member
Or just make a thread about Pop-Gaf for an explosion of gifs.
Please cause NO ONE else is. It's behind Unapolopoopoo
kitchenmotors
Banned
Busy trying to get the gays back on her side right before she can drop another flop single.
Z..
Member
This makes no sense at all, from my point of view.
How much I like something has absolutely nothing to do with how good I think it is. They're two completely different things, and I think alot of what people seem to dislike about most mainstream music fans is that perhaps alot of you seem unable to make that distinction.
How much I like something is my opinion. It is completely subjective and concerns only me. How good I think something is is my impartial take on it, by looking at it objectively.
Lana Del Rey really is the perfect example, in my case. Born to Die is average, at best. The songwriting is predictable, her delivery is monotonous and most of the composition is borrowed from pre-existing pop staples.
No matter how much I love it, and I REALLY REALLY LOVE IT, these things will never stop being true. How can I say I consider it good when I can see it's flaws so glaringly throughout the entirety of the album?
Do they stop me from enjoying it? Of course not (and that's what matters most to me, but when discussing with others, "me" is kind of irrelevant after a certain point in the discussion). Not one bit. I mean what I say when I call my favourite album of 2012. It's still probably my fav pop album from the last 5 or so years, actually! And I LOVE pop. But why should I bury my head in the sand and pretend the flaws aren't there? They are.
If that impairs your enjoyment of something, I think it's an indication of insecurity issues of some kind. Enjoyment is personal.
So much better it's not even a contest.
rudieboy77
Member
You are correct I know very little about pop other than it sounds alike. I do not anything about NASCAR or Macklemore either. You on the other seem to be very interested in it. Good for you.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
*raises hand*
This is part of the problem with the perception of popgaf. A bunch of stuff tied to sales figures (either historical or recent releases). Yes, I know this was a response to another post about sales figures but as someone who just likes what they like I guess stuff like that just doesn't matter to me. GRAMMYs and sales have a tenuous relationship to music quality and personal enjoyment at best.
It's like two shiny pokemon meeting each other in the wild.
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