What if they removed the original clothing completely?
Censorship doesn't always mean removal anyway. Editing can mean recontextualising something by adding.
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How much does censorship bother you?
- Thread starter Jonneh3003
- Start date
Censorship doesn't always mean removal anyway. Editing can mean recontextualising something by adding.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Well, if they changed this one what would give anyone a warm fuzzy feeling that they won't change the next one in the same way? The genie is out of the bottle. It doesn't matter if you buy it and complain, because you still bought the changed version, thus endorsing the change. If you don't buy it then maybe they don't bring the next one over. But you already said that you didn't want it if they changed it.
So what is the option, really? The only options you have are to have find a way to play the original version, suck it up and buy the localized version, or don't buy anything at all.
So, why in 2015 does Nintendo feel the need to remove lingerie from a mature rated game? Kids shouldn't be playing it, and even if they are, they've likely seen more risque content in beer commercials and Victoria Secret ads.
And it apparently isn't to appease the feminists, since the Zero Suit Samus suit is still "objectifying".
It's unnecessary and stupid. But then, so is most censorship.
And it apparently isn't to appease the feminists, since the Zero Suit Samus suit is still "objectifying".
It's unnecessary and stupid. But then, so is most censorship.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
It is one of the worst things to plague westernized gaming period.
They'll give us shooter after shooter and gloat about explosions, but they're being deceived if they think keeping away anything else is somehow beneficial.
I cannot stand censorship.
We get the watered down version of lots of things. It's been know for decades now.
It's still a kid's hobby to some and censorship guarantees certain people continue to think that way.
I would cringe working for Nintendo anymore. Everyone wants to sing and dance in a gaming arena full of censorship. It's awful.
Nothing wrong with caring for kids, but they're obsessed with kids. Movies do better with censorship than video games do.
They'll give us shooter after shooter and gloat about explosions, but they're being deceived if they think keeping away anything else is somehow beneficial.
I cannot stand censorship.
We get the watered down version of lots of things. It's been know for decades now.
It's still a kid's hobby to some and censorship guarantees certain people continue to think that way.
I would cringe working for Nintendo anymore. Everyone wants to sing and dance in a gaming arena full of censorship. It's awful.
Nothing wrong with caring for kids, but they're obsessed with kids. Movies do better with censorship than video games do.
It doesn't, but your specific example wouldn't be perceived as censorship. It'd be seen as an added bonus. Within the context of a product, I think you'll find fewer people taking issue with added content.
If they removed the original clothing completely, then I'd say it could be censorship depending on what that outfit is or was intended to be.
Because they are a business and they thought it was the smartest business move.
To suggest that they should not have the freedom to do this with their own game is ludicrous.
I for one would defend Nintendo's right to publish the game in whatever form they so choose.
I can't understand wanting to exert external control onto Nintendo in this instance.
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
Can't stand it. Let me decide what content I want to experience. Do not ever choose for me.
It's on a per-game basis really.
Ultimately I really wish it would never happen.
As a simple example, censoring Tharja in Fire Emblem is really silly. A woman in a swimsuit in a T-Rated game is hardly some grand maturity-breaking barrier. It doesn't affect my gameplay at all, but I'm bothered that a censorship group told me what was OK to see and not see based on guesswork.
Another example; the fact that video game covers aren't allowed to show open cleavage in America via the ESRB. Once again, it makes no difference to the game at all, but I'm very bothered that something so harmless as the top shelf of breasts somehow is just too sensitive for my eyes or even for the eyes of your typical American shopper. It's bothersome to be told that we're not capable of handling something like that without issue.
Ultimately I really wish it would never happen.
As a simple example, censoring Tharja in Fire Emblem is really silly. A woman in a swimsuit in a T-Rated game is hardly some grand maturity-breaking barrier. It doesn't affect my gameplay at all, but I'm bothered that a censorship group told me what was OK to see and not see based on guesswork.
Another example; the fact that video game covers aren't allowed to show open cleavage in America via the ESRB. Once again, it makes no difference to the game at all, but I'm very bothered that something so harmless as the top shelf of breasts somehow is just too sensitive for my eyes or even for the eyes of your typical American shopper. It's bothersome to be told that we're not capable of handling something like that without issue.
Well, considering western fan's tastes in horror:
I would prefer companies have better self-censorship though. A lot of games, not just Japanese ones, don't have a lot of creative restraint, even when it's not exactly beneficial or progressive.
I never played Fatal Frame 1 and thought "you know what this game needs? Exposed butt-crack lingerie, boob jiggle, and wet T-shirts!"... and yet that happened somehow.
I didn't say they caused the bigots etc. to think that way, but that they have their own extreme definition which in turn muddies the waters even more and causes people to have weird understandings of censorship in these discussions. Perhaps you just never ran into the crowd who follows the opposite extreme definition.
Probably not, but they also wouldn't have been caught up if they had left the costumes as they were. They could have saved the money they spend on replacing the costumes and changing a scene in the game.
PataHikari
Banned
Then you'd better start exclusively consuming content you create yourself.
sensui-tomo
Member
Nobody liked Jason X, thats a terrible movie.
Sorry for being off topic but I remember how ridiculous that movie was and i remember the scene following that picture.
Modest Mauser
Member
It's sexy outfits on underage characters. It was a business decision by Nintendo, and they're within rights to edit their games however they want for different releases.
Well sure, they have the freedom to censor their games, but I have the freedom to boycott it. You'd think NIntendo would have learned their lesson in the 90's, but hey, if they want to go back to the era of green blood, they can count me out on this game and their next console.
there hasn't been much in the way of removing religious references or even toning down violence in the united states recently. you don't see a lot of continued boycotts against namco for what they did with xenogears or even xenosaga (episode iii in particular).
recently i've been seeing opposition to 'censorship' in the context of underage girls in various states of undress. this is true of mugen souls, dungeon travelers, fatal frame, and criminal girls. i feel like whenever i see those argue that 'censorship' is the great evil in these cases, they're really trying to take a position of the moral high ground, because the alternative is they're arguing for underage girls in states of undress. i'm of the position that there are worse things than 'censorship', such as minigames where underage girls are abused sexually or images of them in vulnerable situations as a reward for the player. i'm of the position that we need less of this in the industry, and i would prefer these games never came over. i'm actually glad if people who oppose 'censorship' boycott these games due to their removal of pretty gross content because it decreases their chances for success and other games like them to be brought over or developed in the first place.
in the broader sense, i'm okay with it. yeah it's silly that alcoholic references that make people tipsy turn into strange juice that make people 'act funny' but i get the intent. it's not going to ruin the game for me. even the blood-in-the-hands scene in xenosaga iii came off as confusing instead of infuriating.
recently i've been seeing opposition to 'censorship' in the context of underage girls in various states of undress. this is true of mugen souls, dungeon travelers, fatal frame, and criminal girls. i feel like whenever i see those argue that 'censorship' is the great evil in these cases, they're really trying to take a position of the moral high ground, because the alternative is they're arguing for underage girls in states of undress. i'm of the position that there are worse things than 'censorship', such as minigames where underage girls are abused sexually or images of them in vulnerable situations as a reward for the player. i'm of the position that we need less of this in the industry, and i would prefer these games never came over. i'm actually glad if people who oppose 'censorship' boycott these games due to their removal of pretty gross content because it decreases their chances for success and other games like them to be brought over or developed in the first place.
in the broader sense, i'm okay with it. yeah it's silly that alcoholic references that make people tipsy turn into strange juice that make people 'act funny' but i get the intent. it's not going to ruin the game for me. even the blood-in-the-hands scene in xenosaga iii came off as confusing instead of infuriating.
PataHikari
Banned
You go ahead and protest your right to underaged characters in skimpy outfits.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Japan has done better games with horror than the west period.
Western horror movies do better than the games do.
I'd take a Japanese made horror game and watch a western horror movie. That's just how it is.
I don't mind sex and violence. Anymore horror movies are about some sorta sexual relationship anyway. It's either a shower scene or people having sex in a tent.
Video Games get the worst form of censorship because it's something simple. Did Japan care about anime butt cheeks or Lolita's?
Is it because the west has such a blatant language? Our culture seems to make things much more kid friendly. Call of Duty doesn't even do anything controversial outside of shooting someone.
They curse, big deal.
Rockstar is the only delelopers I trust with the content and they still get slammed.
I wonder if Rockstar ever had to cut something out because of censorship outside of Hot Coffee. I think it's all crap that we cater with themes of death and sex. They exist to offend us. It's part of what it is.
I'm not saying that Jason X is a good film.
I'm saying that, for a very long time, Western Horror has long had an infatuation with sex and death, titillation and terror. The whole slasher genre was always awash in sexy girls in bikinis (or less) being confronted by serial killers. It's practically an established trope.
And western horror films did that far more often than Japanese horror films did.
That's all I was saying.
I'm not against mature content. However, not all mature content makes sense for every medium. It can hurt the overall tone or mood of an experience. Just like I don't need random sexy topless ladies showing up in Saving Private Ryan, or just like how I don't need buckets of blood and gore in The Hangover or Bridesmaid. Not all mature content fits all mature mediums.
sensui-tomo
Member
Watching jojo's bizzarre adventure showed me that smoking is terrible and should be censored but i can see an actual loli's butt with no reprecussions.
You should try "It Follows" and i know you didnt say jason x was a good movie, i just posted an off comment about it because of how stupid it was.
LOL, "underage".
Such an overused term on GAF and the rest of the internet... and relatively meaningless biologically and even legally, since there is no universal standard for what constitutes underage.
FYI, the average age of consent in North America is 16, not 18.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I saw that. That was stupid. People get arrested for owning mangas outside of Japan.
I think it's because Japan has put in a new initiative to stop some of that. It's just silly that they go that route with JoJo and Terra Formars in the west was terrible right?
Didn't they cut all the death out too?
Trust me, I'm a horror connoisseur (comes with being born on Halloween). Most of my favorite horror movies have very little actual sexy ladies in them (Jacob's Ladder, The Shining, The Exorcist, etc.).
Still need to check out "It Follows". Just been on the backburner.
I wouldn't go showing any naked pictures of 16 year olds to the police if I were you. Consent and possession aren't the same thing, and that includes media like movies, games, and comics.
partyphone
Banned
the term is technically correct in a lot of jurisdictions stop censoring us
Then why don't bother other stuffs for you guys ?
WHY we does not have threads for the classic regional translations of ace attorney ?
The changed ballroom ?
Do people, when they claim they want F-Zero GX HD, complain that they want the original
Instead of the "censored"
Or the "censored"
to
?
I rarely even see people wanting to have Dictator become Vega again so that Mike Bison goes back to be Boxer !
And that creates a whole lot of useless confusion =P
Do people want a FF7 remake without Emerald and Ruby Weapon ????
Because that was a "censorship" in the international version =P
There are LOTS of games with regional diferences but the outrages is ALWAYS when they cut the sexy outfit of the 16 year old looking dragon =P
WHY we does not have threads for the classic regional translations of ace attorney ?
The changed ballroom ?
Do people, when they claim they want F-Zero GX HD, complain that they want the original
Instead of the "censored"
Or the "censored"
to
?
I rarely even see people wanting to have Dictator become Vega again so that Mike Bison goes back to be Boxer !
And that creates a whole lot of useless confusion =P
Do people want a FF7 remake without Emerald and Ruby Weapon ????
Because that was a "censorship" in the international version =P
There are LOTS of games with regional diferences but the outrages is ALWAYS when they cut the sexy outfit of the 16 year old looking dragon =P
Paracelsus
Member
Games advocating hate speech should eventually get some censorship but the rest shouldn't, especially anything falling like into the "I know what you should enjoy better than you do" group like fanservice. Use age rating, enforce it.
sensui-tomo
Member
They blackened gruesome deaths. Terraformars though, there is a kotaku article on how silly that debacle was. But the reason from what i remember was that Jojo Stardust crusaders was on more stations and earlier than the first 2 arcs (which was on one iirc) But Blu-rays have taken out the censored stuff.
SoulUnison
Banned
I don't mind when censorship is accounting for cultural differences/dissonance.
I generally agree with games imported from Japan that alter character's costumes/designs to try to give them a shred of dignity.
This little girl needs to put on some clothes.
I generally agree with games imported from Japan that alter character's costumes/designs to try to give them a shred of dignity.
This little girl needs to put on some clothes.
The Spoony Hou
Member
It bothers me a lot. and most of the time it's just them treating their customers like idiots. I understand the reasoning, but it's more like desperately trying to sell more copies than actually adjusting to another culture.
I know I'm digging myself to a hole here, but why does she? Because you're a perv?
I don't mind when censorship is accounting for cultural differences/dissonance.
I generally agree with games imported from Japan that alter character's costumes/designs to try to give them a shred of dignity.
This little girl needs to put on some clothes.
I know I'm digging myself to a hole here, but why does she? Because you're a perv?
partyphone
Banned
partyphone
Banned
what's the conversion rate for fucks to shits? because I don't give a single shit about some anime bikini.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
What's funny about this?
And yet Hollywood has made tons of movies portraying "underaged" teens having sex. Porky's, Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Superbad, etc.
partyphone
Banned
he quotes this dumb thread
This is an M-rated game. The other games you mentioned are not. If the content was cut for being "inappropriate", i could understand if it was a T-rated game, but it's an M-rated horror game, in a landscape of horror games, all with far worse content.
The reason they cut it wasn't "localization" differences; it was because they felt it was offensive and inappropriate for us.
I don't even like the content, but I'm more shocked they made the changes and didn't tell people about it until the 11th hour (or after...).
Fatal Frame is a franchise for the uber-hardcore, not the Pokemon crowd. They know what they're getting. ... Well, they THOUGHT they knew what they were getting. Surprise, I guess.
None portrayed by actual teens, though. There's a reason they always cast 20-somethings as teenagers and not actual, you know, 15 year olds.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Well of course, that's the point of the article.
Which was surprisingly "civil" unlike your contributions to this thread.
partyphone
Banned
how's that?
SoulUnison
Banned
Wow.
"It bothers me that that tiny girl is in a stripperiffic belly dancer costume. Japan is uncomfortable about this sort of thing."
"You're a pervert."
I... I don't even.
nephilimdj
Member
Its crazy people use rating boards as a excuse
remember carmageddon 64 German edition
Its been a issue for myself with Vita, the only real game I can justify it on it recent times is monster monpiece and thats because they were clearly sexualizing 10 year old girls.
remember carmageddon 64 German edition
Its been a issue for myself with Vita, the only real game I can justify it on it recent times is monster monpiece and thats because they were clearly sexualizing 10 year old girls.
sensui-tomo
Member
what to his question or something else... the dancer class is meant to seduce enemies and what not... hell DQ did it back in the day (albeit she was 20)
I don't mind when censorship is accounting for cultural differences/dissonance.
I generally agree with games imported from Japan that alter character's costumes/designs to try to give them a shred of dignity.
This little girl needs to put on some clothes.
They're fictional characters, they don't need any dignity and they feel no shame. That is the point, they aren't real.
The Spoony Hou
Member
She's a belly dancer, shouldn't she dress like one? I'm fine with complaining about chain mail bikini, but that's an appropriate costume, she's happy with it and I'd think she doesn't have to worry about pervs in her world.
What, do you avoid going to the beach or pool because little girls in swimsuits bother you?
2 shits equal 1 fuck. Some might disagree though.
But people are apparently offended about a 17 year old in lingerie, who is, you know, an artistic creation that does not actually exist?
SoulUnison
Banned
You know what I mean.
I hate when I'm playing a game that I'm getting into and takes itself fairly seriously, and then suddenly there's a character like Tiki, the "1000 year old dragon" who just happens to look like a young girl trying to wear as revealing an outfit as possible.
It's such a completely obvious, greasy wink from the devs that just makes things feel gross.
I love *some* animes, and I play *tons* of Japanese games, but absolutely nothing makes me put down a game faster and leaves a bad taste in my mouth like "moe" "ecchi" "fanservice" crap.
No matter what it's form censorship is horrible, and I'll always speak out against it.
Living in Australia (or any country with similar censorship bodies) makes you pretty aware of the issue when even mainstream games like Fallout, South Park, The Last of Us, Saints Row, Left 4 Dead, and smaller titles like Hotline Miami and State of Decay all get censored or straight up refused classification.
It's bullshit.
Living in Australia (or any country with similar censorship bodies) makes you pretty aware of the issue when even mainstream games like Fallout, South Park, The Last of Us, Saints Row, Left 4 Dead, and smaller titles like Hotline Miami and State of Decay all get censored or straight up refused classification.
It's bullshit.
PataHikari
Banned
Well it's a good thing that, as a citizen of the United States of America, I only have to worry about USA's standards.
Under 18 = Underage, and sexualizing underage characters is creepy!
Good thing putting more clothing on a child in a video game isn't censorship huh.
Lord British
Member
Its crazy people use rating boards as a excuse
remember carmageddon 64 German edition
what the fuck