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How old must a child be for spanking to be illegal in the US?
- Thread starter ChainedMaster
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I was spanked a couple of times growing up along with a slap on the hand. I was always told why I was being punished and they never grabbed me forcibly to carry it out. I'd come to them after they asked and then it was done. They'd talk to me afterwards and send me on my way.
Not sure if I disagree with it because I'm not a parent and haven't had an unruly child or had the chance to try other options out. It worked because I never cursed out my parents or tried to steal something again as a child. I don't agree with using it as your go to way of stopping your kids from doing what you don't like. It's basically the last resort method.
Taking away my Power Ranger toys drove me insane though. I almost hurt myself badly a few times trying to climb a cabinet to rescue my Rangers.
Not sure if I disagree with it because I'm not a parent and haven't had an unruly child or had the chance to try other options out. It worked because I never cursed out my parents or tried to steal something again as a child. I don't agree with using it as your go to way of stopping your kids from doing what you don't like. It's basically the last resort method.
Taking away my Power Ranger toys drove me insane though. I almost hurt myself badly a few times trying to climb a cabinet to rescue my Rangers.
Now this is bullshit. Tell that to a vandal kid or a bully.
Because I'd like to know it. Spanking is all I know and it was effective for me. It doesn't mean that I like it.
krypt0nian
Banned
My dogs my whole life have been shockingly well behaved and have never been hit. Because I took the time beforehand to study dog behaviors, and train without violence.
Some parents care enough to study before having children too. Go figure.
Wow, it's almost like multiple different methods of punishment work to make someone behave.
RoslindaleOne
Member
Yes, I was spanked too and don't hold any grudges against my parents. I've done some dumb stuff in life, but I was never violent towards others, or harm anything. I want to make it clear to anyone that spanking can't help everyone. There will always be violent people in the world.
It's unfortunate how the only few people who support aggression towards children are those who suffered it themselves. It's unfortunate they can't realize how the damage has instilled fear in them and now results in some idealization of their parents.
krypt0nian
Banned
Wow and it's almost like one requires study and understanding and one is inflicting pain on someone you supposedly love.
And you get to pick!
I experienced it. I know lot's of friends who experienced it. All of them are either untrusting of their parents or show signs of aggression and other issues the parents created.
Me? I'm a pretty non-violent person but I can't deny that I used to have serious anger management from the way my family was and the way they punished me. Now, they feel like shit for what they did.
Meh. My dog loves me more than anyone else in the world, and gets super jealous about me, so I'd like to think that whatever I did, hasn't scarred him psychologically. He's also ridiculously well-behaved. Everyone that has ever met him has remarked that he's very much unlike other little dogs, because he's very obedient and well-mannered.
As for the kids part, I still don't think it's wrong, but I'm never having kids so luckily for them, they'll never get hit!
Just because your dog turned out fine does not mean hitting him is okay.
My dog was abused by a previous owner and she is one of the friendliest dogs you'll ever meet. Has never bitten or attacked anyone.
It is wrong. Plenty of statistics show that hitting your child can have negative consequences. It creates a mindset that violence is okay when that is the farthest thing you should be teaching your child. You're placing fear instead of trust and that's the shittiest thing a parent can do.
But most people on here justify physical discipline as the most efficient method of punishment. Wow, indeed.
RunWhiteBoyRun
Member
Oh Christ on a stick get out of here with this. Aggression? Suffered?
I'd hate to spank my kids. The thing is, I've seen so many difficult kids, like bullies, thieves, sloths and all that stuff, all of those situations in my opinion are sometimes derived from the ease of "getting away with it". Telling those kids to go to their bedroom is just a waste of time. If spanking doesn't work, then what does? And don't come here saying that "it's the parents fault the kids are like that!" because:
- It's not easy being a parent, there's no manuals and all will make mistakes,m no matter how good intended.
- Human mind is unpredictable.
- Sometime it's not. There is such a thing as individual growth.
I think speaking to your child is a better way to punish them, you need to ask them why they did it and if they thought it was wrong or not and then help them from there, I know kids can be manipulative and they lie but hitting a child is not a good thing to do and I don't see how abuse helps anyone.
I was hit as a child, and in many different ways...did it make me a better kid? No, it made me hate and fear my parents. It made me learn to hide my wrongdoings and lie about things so that I wouldn't get hurt.
Am I a better person now? Yes, but that is because I LEARNED how to be a better person, from teachers, media, books, and experiences....not from abuse.
I understand kids can invoke rage sometimes and maybe you are the kind of person that hits people/things when you are mad, but that doesn't make it right.
This is coming from someone that doesn't enjoy the company of children.
I was hit as a child, and in many different ways...did it make me a better kid? No, it made me hate and fear my parents. It made me learn to hide my wrongdoings and lie about things so that I wouldn't get hurt.
Am I a better person now? Yes, but that is because I LEARNED how to be a better person, from teachers, media, books, and experiences....not from abuse.
I understand kids can invoke rage sometimes and maybe you are the kind of person that hits people/things when you are mad, but that doesn't make it right.
This is coming from someone that doesn't enjoy the company of children.
No, I don't hate children.
RunWhiteBoyRun
Member
Then you were abused, not spanked.
Broder Salsa
Banned
It kind of blows my mind it's legal for any age group tbh. Glad it isn't here.
hydrophilic attack
Member
In my opinion there should be no special laws about spanking.
Battery is battery, regardless of whether the victim is an adult or not. If anything, battery against your kid is even worse than against someone else, because they are pretty much defenceless. Furthermore, you are in a position of authority and power relative to the child, making it difficult for them to protest or report to someone else.
Battery is battery, regardless of whether the victim is an adult or not. If anything, battery against your kid is even worse than against someone else, because they are pretty much defenceless. Furthermore, you are in a position of authority and power relative to the child, making it difficult for them to protest or report to someone else.
krypt0nian
Banned
And the best part is I will never have hurt any of my pets ever. You'll never be able to say the same. They are not equitable, and I'm of the opinion that you really should feel bad for doing it.
"we should feel sorry for people who were spanked and aren't smart enough like me to see it fucked them up mentally"
Sometimes spanking works best. Sometimes it's not needed. Different kids needs different punishments. Deal with it.
Would be an absolute terror if I hadn't gotten beatings. The fear of the belt at an early aged helped stop me from doing stupid shit. Sooooo...the spankings did their job. One of the kids in my neighborhood didn't get spankings only verbally reprimanded. He went on to steal and do drugs and I remember when we were kids he always wanted to do something we knew was bad. Me and my two best friends got the belt. We are perfectly functioning citizens today.
Now,I'm not saying beatings are the only way. I have a little boy and I don't plan on beating him but instead speaking calmly to him. However if I think it will work I will most certainly slap the shit outta him. Sometimes it's needed. It's not about beating him out of some sick desire to do it; it's one of the most basic forms of communication that a child aka 'The I'd', will understand.
I was a selfish misbehaved little asshole as a kid/preteen. True epitome of The Id. I needed to get a beating. Funny thing though, my uncle only had to give me one beating. Then I was like Nope, I wont fuck up anymore lol.
Now,I'm not saying beatings are the only way. I have a little boy and I don't plan on beating him but instead speaking calmly to him. However if I think it will work I will most certainly slap the shit outta him. Sometimes it's needed. It's not about beating him out of some sick desire to do it; it's one of the most basic forms of communication that a child aka 'The I'd', will understand.
I was a selfish misbehaved little asshole as a kid/preteen. True epitome of The Id. I needed to get a beating. Funny thing though, my uncle only had to give me one beating. Then I was like Nope, I wont fuck up anymore lol.
CountAntonius
Member
Can you be more sanctimonious?
CornBurrito
Member
There are four methods for modifying behavior:
Positive Punishment: Application of negative stimuli to discourage a behavior (ex: hitting)
Negative Punishment: The removal of positive stimuli to discourage a behavior (ex: no TV)
Positive Reinforcement: Application of positive stimuli to encourage a behavior (ex: praise)
Negative Reinforcement: Removal of negative stimuli to encourage a behavior (ex: that annoying beeping sound that makes you want to buckle your seatbelt)
Data shows that Positive Punishment is, in general, the least effective of the four. Since people get this wrong I will stress that LEAST effective does not mean NON-effective. It can still very much alter behavior. However, on average it is at least better to try the other 3 methods first if your end goal is to alter a behavior. Police dogs, rescue dogs, and dogs trained to help people with disabilities are more often trained using Positive Reinforcement these days than with Positive Punishment. So the science backing up my statements is used for practical applications.
Yeah verbal reprimands fall under Positive Punishment much like spanking. But I imagine most people don't take a simple verbal reprimand to heart, especially if the verbal reprimand involves the threat of punishment that it never acted on.
I was given mostly praise as a kid for getting good grades in school and not acting out. Ended up never needing to be punished. I was pretty well behaved. My sister on the other hand didn't seem to take as well to that parenting method as I did. Granted there were many other factors complicating that.
Positive Punishment: Application of negative stimuli to discourage a behavior (ex: hitting)
Negative Punishment: The removal of positive stimuli to discourage a behavior (ex: no TV)
Positive Reinforcement: Application of positive stimuli to encourage a behavior (ex: praise)
Negative Reinforcement: Removal of negative stimuli to encourage a behavior (ex: that annoying beeping sound that makes you want to buckle your seatbelt)
Data shows that Positive Punishment is, in general, the least effective of the four. Since people get this wrong I will stress that LEAST effective does not mean NON-effective. It can still very much alter behavior. However, on average it is at least better to try the other 3 methods first if your end goal is to alter a behavior. Police dogs, rescue dogs, and dogs trained to help people with disabilities are more often trained using Positive Reinforcement these days than with Positive Punishment. So the science backing up my statements is used for practical applications.
Yeah verbal reprimands fall under Positive Punishment much like spanking. But I imagine most people don't take a simple verbal reprimand to heart, especially if the verbal reprimand involves the threat of punishment that it never acted on.
I was given mostly praise as a kid for getting good grades in school and not acting out. Ended up never needing to be punished. I was pretty well behaved. My sister on the other hand didn't seem to take as well to that parenting method as I did. Granted there were many other factors complicating that.
That's where I draw the line. I, and only I (and the other parent, of course) can touch my children.
Wait... few? Do only like 3% of people support spanking? And aggression? My dad wasn't aggressive when he spanked me. There's been no damage done. There is no fear. He used a punishment that my mind at the time could understand. He didn't overdo it. I'm not an angry, fearful, of traumatized adult at all.
I'm not saying that every parent should spank their children. And NO parent should beat/abuse their children. But to generalize it as you are is wrong.
Altered Juice
Member
RoslindaleOne
Member
I guess it's different for everyone which I'm not surprised. Spanking either helps or makes things worse depending on the child and the parents.
Marty Chinn
Member
Yep, it's kinda like the difference of putting a kid on time out and putting a kid in a locked dark closet for a time out.
The point is that more cases turn out negative when you hit your pet. You can't say "oh well I turned out fine!" or "my dog turned out fine therefore it must work" and think that's a good argument to support physical punishment.
Your first reaction to anything regarding raising either a pet or child should not be hitting them. This is the entire argument. Nowhere should anyone be defending physical punishment as the go to for reprimanding behaviour.
If you've tried everything possible to fix a childs behaviour then yes, you may need to resort to spanking.
CornBurrito
Member
I imagine it also depends on how the parent does it. If you escalate the spanking to a beating and then just scream at your child it might not have the same effect if you spank a bit, and then explain very carefully what they did wrong and why you don't find the behavior acceptable. Or maybe you just spank and don't really explain why the behavior was wrong from a moral standpoint, so the kid simply learns to do the behavior only when they are sure they aren't being watched. I think explanation of why the behavior was wrong is key.
It also might matter if you mix in Positive Reinforcement into the mix ever. Kids do react very well to praise. Being told when they are doing something right is often key. I imagine that some genuinely abusive parents simply never praise their kids. And since those are the parents mostly likely to spank that might be why the stats seem to indicate spanking being potentially harmful to a kid's psyche.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Different situations call for different methods.
For example, if your kid is being difficult when you are doing groceries, protesting about you not buying them the sweets they want or whatever, an effective method is to mimic their actions. Next time your kid is screaming about you not buying them an icecream at the supermarket, drop all your stuff, lie down on the floor and start screaming loudly as well. Likely, other shoppers will give you weird stares and your kid will be so embarrassed that they will want to leave as quickly and quietly as possible, and likely think twice before pulling that shit on you again.
Another example, if they are being troublesome when you want to help them put on their socks in the morning, don't say "put on your socks!" Instead, give them options so that they are under the impression that they are making their own choices and not doing what you want them to do. Instead say something like: "Do you want to wear your Spongebob socks or your polka dot socks today?"
Angelus Errare
Banned
This is how I see it, even if you can make a valid argument for spanking. If your child is like 7+ and you're still spanking them to get them to act right…as a parent I question your child raising abilities a lot; the argument of "sending them to their room or explaining to them why what they did was wrong doesn't work" loses steam when you're speaking on children who at that age by and large understand the basic concept of right and wrong. If you're spanking your kid when they're in their teens…you have fucked up as a parent and it clearly shows that spanking hasn't been working nearly as well as you thought.
krypt0nian
Banned
Can you refute me?
I got spanked infrequently as a child. I can't really remember any specific incidents or what I did that resulted in that. Which I think proves a point--spanking itself isn't some traumatic form of punishment that scarred me.
There may be a correlation for some parents that spanking relates also to other forms of punishment and actions that could be considered abusive. That would be a pretty big lurking variable in any research on the subject as well.
There may be a correlation for some parents that spanking relates also to other forms of punishment and actions that could be considered abusive. That would be a pretty big lurking variable in any research on the subject as well.
CountAntonius
Member
Can you refute being sanctimonious?
Let's not bring up how animals treat their cubs as that is not relevant to domesticated dogs, especially since we take over fairly early on in correcting behaviour.
It's not that physical disclipline CAN'T be effective. It's that people arguing it IS the most effective and that it's fine to be the first thing someone resorts to is not okay. It's a lazy parenting technique for parents wanting to rid of their aggression.
If you do any research on hitting your dog as a form of punishment you'll see many owners are against it and find that it can lead to negative behaviour in your dog.
krypt0nian
Banned
Call it what you will. I am a better person for never have caused pain and achieved the same results. Point blank.
My man.
CountAntonius
Member
lol ok.
Well it was a unique situation. See I was raised by my grandmother so when I became a teenager and her "spankings" became laughable, she called my uncle to take care of business. I remember it like it was yesterday, he told me to meet him in the park and basically he had me fight him and say to him what I had said to my grandmother. It worked lol. Sacred the shit outta me. Absolutely love my uncle to this day.
CornBurrito
Member
In general, Positive Reinforcement changes behavior the most. Sometimes a kid screws up once. You explain why the behavior was wrong. Perhaps remove some privileges. When they act correctly (ie. you see them sharing toys, or whatever) you use Positive Reinforcement (ie. praise) and then they will be more likely to respect your wishes and not act in ways that they know will displease you.
Of course there may be times where removal of privileges simply isn't effective (because the child simply doesn't care or it is hard to enforce) and then maybe Positive Punishment (ie. spanking) may be needed. Of course I'd imagine you have to explain why the behavior was wrong, because otherwise they may simply learn to just not do the behavior when mom/dad is looking.
Though one of the most effective ways to minimize the chances of your child acting in ways you find inappropriate is to praise them for acting appropriate. In general kids love getting praised.
Basically you may be able to use spanking effectively, but many people probably are lazy with it and don't bother explaining in detail why they felt the child's behavior was inappropriate. These people may also not praise their kids for correct behavior.
Amazing. I'd love more stuff like this. Thank you.
Solid advise too, Cornburrito.
Child abuse and mental disorder. I challenge anyone to find me a study which supports spanking. To all those who support spanking, what would you recommend the optimum force and velocity of the attack be? You know, because it's not a slippery slope at all. And also, do you have any other defence than the completely unbiased "durr hurr I turned out fine!!!11"?
How is he wrong?
He doesn't resort to violence. I'd say that makes him a pretty damn good person.
krypt0nian
Banned
Would be the best that you could do given that I'm correct. Calling me santimonius is just a sign that you know I'm right and you hate that.
figadapaura
Member
It should be illegal no matter what age they are. It's ridiculous to me that people think it's okay to harm their own children.
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