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How old must a child be for spanking to be illegal in the US?
- Thread starter ChainedMaster
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Are the distribution of beatings equal despite the sex of the child?
How about the types of beatings recommended?
Are belts okay? Buckle side or non-buckle side?
How about a long thin stick that stings and leaves markings like a whip?
What about pinning down a child under a pillow or body slamming them against a concrete wall?
Not enough to hurt them obviously but enough to teach them a lesson.
Are all those methods kosher with the beat kids crowd or are there more specific child beating methods they recommend?
How about the types of beatings recommended?
Are belts okay? Buckle side or non-buckle side?
How about a long thin stick that stings and leaves markings like a whip?
What about pinning down a child under a pillow or body slamming them against a concrete wall?
Not enough to hurt them obviously but enough to teach them a lesson.
Are all those methods kosher with the beat kids crowd or are there more specific child beating methods they recommend?
How are those others measuring spanking though? Most of the people in here have said they have somewhat convoluted requirements when deciding to spank a child. Almost no one is saying that spanking alone is going to get a child to act right.
I spank my daughter when she is doing something either very dangerous, or doing something that she has been told not to do multiple times (not necessarily all in one day) and still doing it. The dangerous thing is partly because it is the easiest and quickest way to get her to understand it is not good to do. Afterwards I'll explain why it was wrong and tell her possible outcomes.
As for the other requirement, it involves something that she has been told to not do multiple times but continues to do it. My daughter loved writing on walls, for instance. I sat her down the first time and told her why it was bad. She also got sent to her corner and had to help clean up. The second time, same thing, I also informed her where paper was and what paper she could use. The third time, same thing, with an extended time out and me expecting my four year old to explain why she continues to think this is acceptable. The fourth time, spanking, then the above. We will see, maybe I'll get a fifth time, but it has been awhile since time four.
CreepingFear
Member
That is the real problem, isn't it? Talk to ten different people and they have 10 different ideas on what a spanking is. One slap all the way to not even counting slaps and just "breaking the child's will". Implement or no implement? Bare or clothed? In private or public for others to see? Certain misbehavior are spankable offenses but others aren't? Mom or Dad the spanker or both? How young is too young? How old is too old? Can other family members spank such as grandparents, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, cousins? Babysitters? Teachers?
There are no good answers out there other then the overwhelming scientific data that says it's harmful.
Most states define spanking as an openhanded smack on the butt. That is it. If it is hard enough to leave a bruise, it isn't a smack, and is hitting. That is child abuse. Using anything other than an openhand is not a spanking, that is child abuse. Spanking them until their will breaks would also be viewed as child abuse. Some states view bare as child abuse (Maryland for example)
For some of your other questions, really? How young/old? That is the same question for all forms of discipline. Are you going to put your one-year old in a corner? They ain't staying, they got no clue what the fuck your doing. Or are you going to sit there and tell them why they shouldn't be doing something? Not effective, they can't understand you (I still did tell my daughter, always have talked to her). All the questions about who can discipline your child, same thing. I don't want anybody else putting my daughter in a corner. In school, they can remove her from class, but don't think you can put her in a corner. Don't try to take away her WiiU at home either. All those questions have to be decided by the parents for everything.
Your studies should be telling you what they are considering a spanking, other wise they might as well just be asking is abusing a child effective when raising a child. If they have a convoluted definition of when spanking is appropriate, good job, welcome to raising kids. There are many convoluted definitions for my actions as a parent. Wish sometimes that she came with a manual that I could refer to, but nope, I have to try to learn through reading and trial and error, and hope that I make very few errors.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
The concept of physically hitting your children or causing them pain in any way is just absolutely bizarre to me. If you have to go to that level, you need to improve your general fucking parenting.
Irishmantis
Member
lol at people saying cause they got spanked its ok, because there ok ha.
I was never hit as a Kid and im hardly Selling Coke and Hijacking cars.
I was never hit as a Kid and im hardly Selling Coke and Hijacking cars.
Your right, I should mentally hit her. If you really want to see spanking stop in the US, you should probably choose your words better. When all you do is say that someone needs to improve their "general fucking parenting," people will tend to stop listening.
Instead of insulting people, try giving feedback. What would you have done in the above examples I listed? Where should I have looked for better answers? Or do you really not care and just wanted to put down people that have spanked their children before?
That's nice, I know people that never got spanked and ended up in jail because they felt that robbery was fine. And I got spanked and never ended up selling coke or hijacking(?) cars.
crazy monkey
Banned
do people not know difference between spanking and abuse?
Most of the parents literally are heart broken while they give any punishments to kids. I know my mother cried once after she shouted at me and hugged me right after. Spanking is fine if done right. That fear of consequence is important to teach at young age.
One instance where i was spanked. started throwing food everywhere as a young kid. was warned twice. third time my father just stood up from his chair with his eyes open and angry voice. I froze and collected all the shit from the floor like in five seconds lol
Most of the parents literally are heart broken while they give any punishments to kids. I know my mother cried once after she shouted at me and hugged me right after. Spanking is fine if done right. That fear of consequence is important to teach at young age.
One instance where i was spanked. started throwing food everywhere as a young kid. was warned twice. third time my father just stood up from his chair with his eyes open and angry voice. I froze and collected all the shit from the floor like in five seconds lol
Spanking is a form of child abuse in many countries.
Maybe there is some weird crazy incest BDSM Fetish going on in the house??? A 30 year old man enjoys BDSM??
http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/23/health/effects-spanking-brain/index.html?iid=article_sidebarHow
Something I read the other day. Parents that spank their children have some effect on the brain.
Something I read the other day. Parents that spank their children have some effect on the brain.
crazy monkey
Banned
may be i am reading it wrong spanking does not mean you literally go on town. i was not spanked many times but i do remember all they did few time is grab my ear and told me tell sorry. that is it. anyways people have different experiences and views.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
So... what if your child is hitting other children?
crazy monkey
Banned
that was one of the times i got spanked. I was about to fight some kid in swimming area because he disrespected my father. My father slapped me and said NO. Other kid came and said sorry. I don't think i have raised voiced in front of my father afterwards.
GingerNathan
Member
If the child is very young then time out or some other kind of non physical punishment. Old enough to know its wrong then the same but with words that re-enforce why hitting others is wrong. Also try and discover why the child had resorted to hitting, for example the other child might not having been sharing properly so that would also need to be addressed, both the child for not sharing, and the child guilty of violence needs to learn that they should come to an adult and not take inappropriate action.
I'll tell her stop and address the problem with her. If she wants me to explain the difference between me spanking her (open hand on the butt) and her hitting someone, I will. Right now, I don't believe that she kid hit someone with any amount of power that would hurt someone. If she was using a stick or something, probably go right over to her and spank her. The reason why is the shock from me actually spanking her seems to get an immediate response and, so far, seems to be something that she remembers long term.
I spanked her when she tried to run across the road the first time. She didn't look both ways, just saw her friend across the street. We had crossed the road many times before, and she knew that she was supposed to look both ways, looking rigth, left, than right, but she didn't. She was so excited she just left. After that, she never tried to just run across the road again. She will run up to it and tell me that I need to look both ways before we cross. I could have tried again explaining it to her, reminding her why we look both ways, and maybe that would have been enough. It wasn't before, after all the training we did, and I didn't want to find out by having her run the next time.
She does want to wrestle sometimes, and she usually ends up hitting me, closed fist. I tell her that you can't hit people and she is fine with it. I am pretty sure that she picked that up fom watching Spiderman or Batman, not from me spanking her, if that is what you are trying to imply.
GingerNathan
Member
But that's the point spanking should be used as a last resort when a child is too young to understand why they shouldn't be doing what they're doing. If I'd have caught my son at the age of four sticking metal objects into a plug socket then I'd have spanked him, I would have wanted him to be scared of repeating the action. By the time he was older say six I'd be confident that I could explain and he would understand, so no spanking just words.
Obviously the age when a child is ready to be treated differently will differ from child to child and only the parent should be able to determine when.
Thankfully I've never spanked my child but that doesn't mean I disagree with its use in specific circumstances. However some of you guys using phrases like 'beating' make me concerned, that implies a level of anger or loss of self control. That's abuse to me.
I can assure you, sometimes my wife really does not understand what I'm trying to tell her.
Well, you used to be able to. Think in so states they still allow smacking, but not sure.
I've given you a couple examples of where I've spanked. I don't grab her and throw her over my knee and take my belt and wallop her until she has cried so much that she is dehydrated, but I do take my open hand and from about a foot away have it come into contact with her bottom. It doesn't take much for her to remember it, especially if you aren't always spanking them.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
You raise your child however you want. That said, if she can understand the differentation between those two sorts of violence, she can understand more sophisticated methods of discipline. It comes off to me as hypocrisy, even moreso to a child.
"We don't solve problems with violence! Except a specific sort of violence which I dictate."
This is weirdly reminding me of debating religious people on whether or not it was okay to hit your wife as described in their religious teachings...
Anywho, the problem with what you've described is you are implicitly saying that the method of spanking you described is the proverbial red line for a misbehaving child that will finally get them to act right when all reasoning has failed. Maybe that works on your child, but who are you to say that other parents shouldn't resort to more extreme methods of corporal punishment if the method you described doesn't work for them? The line between what you call "abuse" and "spanking" isn't as clear cut as you seem to think it is.
This kid I know who is beaten by his parents emulates their punishment methods on his friends. I have to admit that I was a bit on the fence about spanking children before that (leaning towards not doing it myself but not being judgmental of parents who did) but after seeing that I was certain that any kind of hitting was wrong.
So just what are the right ways to beat your child??
GingerNathan
Member
You should probably give her a time out then and punish her by withholding sex, that's bound to work
:lol at how specific people are being when describing how they spank.
Like being calculated makes it ok.
I don't believe in hitting people and violence! I spank but only at an angle of 45 degrees and 13.5cm from the child's behind. Research shows that this coupled with a large area of palm leaves no bruise and hurts 60% less than normal hitting!
Like being calculated makes it ok.
I don't believe in hitting people and violence! I spank but only at an angle of 45 degrees and 13.5cm from the child's behind. Research shows that this coupled with a large area of palm leaves no bruise and hurts 60% less than normal hitting!
It's not hypocrisy at all. If she was hitting a child, that is not the same as spanking. I've already told you what I consider spanking. It really isn't more violent than a high five, but since it is done as punishment, she views it negatively. Do you high-five your kid? I do.
EDIT: Also, what was the problem she was hitting someone for? Kids actually do just hit other kids, whether they have been spanked or not.
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Again, like the way we view prisons and prisoners in this country, this subject is constantly put to the whims of what we wish it aught to be doing rather than what it is actually doing. Virtually all of the scientific research done on spanking so far has concluded that not only doesn't it work, but it's actually damaging to relationships between kids and parents. Even if it didn't turn out that way for you, you'd be the statistical exception, not the rule.
Chuck Norris
Banned
"No Ipad"
The Librarian
Banned
It varies state by state. Spanking children, though, should be illegal because it's bad for your kid.
I'm not trying to say that this is what all parents need to do. This is what I do when I spank and why you will see me say I spank my daughter and still be able to sleep at night.
I was reading a Minnesota case were dude beat his child with a maple paddle 36 times and it was originally tried as child abuse. Their supreme court overturned it, citing that as corporal punishment and saying that if they allowed that to pass, they would have to take corporal punishment out of the home.
But you should realize their are degrees. Spanking isn't always just grabbing the first thing you find and smacking your kid with it. I wouldn't do that and wouldn't condone that, but people still call that spanking.
lol at people using studies that don't have any clear controls for what they call something but saying that all of it is bad.
It isn't that detailed. People keep assuming that if your spanking, you must also be using a switch, or a belt. Or what was asked up above, pushing them into a wall with a pillow. I have one method of spanking, and that really does play into it.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
I don't assume that at all. You can still do lots of damage with a grown man's hand.
It actually is that detailed. Spanking is simply described as "hitting a child on the bottom with an open hand”. And many studies have been done using that definition.
They still showed it was damaging.
timetokill
Banned
I'm thinking back now on all the stuff my parents tried with me that didn't work. once they put me in timeout and actually forgot I was there because I was so quiet and content. timeout was awesome. it was more work for them than it was for me. I just sat there and thought my thoughts.
same reason taking away toys wasn't effective.
I'm just glad I'm of the many exceptions. I have an awesome relationship with my parents.
same reason taking away toys wasn't effective.
I'm just glad I'm of the many exceptions. I have an awesome relationship with my parents.
angular graphics
Banned
Spanking your kid? What is this the middle ages? Spanking's only useful function I can think of is in bed with your partner.
I mean, I am too. But we have to be aware that just because we have our own anecdotal stories in which we can say we came out relatively unscathed, that such stories should not be used as a backbone to dish out viable real-world advice to how parents should punish their kids. Scientific research must be the backbone of such advice. And that research is clear.
timetokill
Banned
I think the issue is that it's "more likely" to cause issues, not that it absolutely does in all cases, which seems to be the presumption here. I think there are cases where it's probably justified and maybe even the best course of action.
At that point, we have to ask whether people can be trusted to make the judgment as to whether it's right for their child or not.
Acrylic7
Member
I still find it fumy that some people dont understand spankings. And that is totally different than abuse.
Absolutely nothing worked on me as a kid except spankings. Only as a last resort and only when I absolutely did something that justified it.
All children are different and require different methods.
Talking and explaining works, well guess what sometimes it doesn't
Positive reinforcement works and guess what sometimes it doesn't.
Spankings work and guess what sometimes it doesn't.
Your kids aren't computers that can be programed to do exactly what you want, they have minds of their own. You can only do your best to teach them and guide them on their paths. They simply DO NOT HAVE TO DO THE RIGHT THING. They have wills of their own. We encourage it the best we can and will pretty much do anything in our power to make sure that we aren't allowing them to become bad people.
I say fuck these scientists and their charts. Shits way more complex than it seems. You cant lump sum all kids together and throw them on a pie chart. Shit, anything to do with children as individuals is nothing but and infinite loop of variables.
edit- And I'm not saying just go hit a child because he/she did something wrong. Of course explaining situations and things of that nature should always be your first course of action. And if you did spank your kid then yes you need to explain to them what they did wrong and why you did it. Parents dont do this for fun and they dont like doing it, but its for their own good. I can only imagine what kind of fuck up I would be right now if my mom didn't spank me. And maybe I wouldn't be a fuckup but still, I dont think I would be a better person than I am today. It did me good imo.
Absolutely nothing worked on me as a kid except spankings. Only as a last resort and only when I absolutely did something that justified it.
All children are different and require different methods.
Talking and explaining works, well guess what sometimes it doesn't
Positive reinforcement works and guess what sometimes it doesn't.
Spankings work and guess what sometimes it doesn't.
Your kids aren't computers that can be programed to do exactly what you want, they have minds of their own. You can only do your best to teach them and guide them on their paths. They simply DO NOT HAVE TO DO THE RIGHT THING. They have wills of their own. We encourage it the best we can and will pretty much do anything in our power to make sure that we aren't allowing them to become bad people.
I say fuck these scientists and their charts. Shits way more complex than it seems. You cant lump sum all kids together and throw them on a pie chart. Shit, anything to do with children as individuals is nothing but and infinite loop of variables.
edit- And I'm not saying just go hit a child because he/she did something wrong. Of course explaining situations and things of that nature should always be your first course of action. And if you did spank your kid then yes you need to explain to them what they did wrong and why you did it. Parents dont do this for fun and they dont like doing it, but its for their own good. I can only imagine what kind of fuck up I would be right now if my mom didn't spank me. And maybe I wouldn't be a fuckup but still, I dont think I would be a better person than I am today. It did me good imo.
TheChocolateWar
Member
As a youth advocate, I do not think a parent should ever be allowed to spank a child. I see nothing about the providing of necessities that allows a person to battery a person. That is sick logic that, when to taken to the extreme, is morally reprehensible.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
My major grips with these scientific test. They are so screwed because it's probably one demographic they put together and then analyzed that.
I've said this before but, none of the people I know who has ever gotten spanked turned out rotten like the kids I know who has never. Those same kids who never got spanked, put their own hands on their parents, call them all type of degrading words, and still some people would rather that than instill the discipline from young.
Abuse to me is completely different than spanking. I've seen abuse and the affects of abuse. I've seen spanking and seen the affects of spanking. They are two different things that cannot be lumped together when the intent of one is far more worst than the other.
In actual fact is you can 'lump sump' all kids together and throw them on a pie chart and gleam incredibly accurate information about that subject. That's statistics for you.
Why is it that people so quickly want to abandon science, when it has consistently shown to be the most reliable method to human progress that has ever been thought up? Do you have some fucking alternative method of analyzing our world around us in such a successful and rigorous manner? Please, share with the class so we can understand what theory of the universe you subscribe to that has been even remotely as successful as science.
TheChocolateWar
Member
You mean false imprisonment? I still don't understand why parents think that providing a person with a place to sleep at night gives you a right to commit intentional torts against them.
AyaisMUsikWhore
Member
Have they ever done these studies on adults on their feelings in spanking and what affects it has done to to them? Because in lots of cultures where spanking is acceptable, these studies has never taken into account of that. Do they also take into account the difference between abuse and discipline? Do they take into account the parents state of mind when the intent is to resort to straight physical abuse? How can these test prove anything when there is so much more than just the act that needs to be accounted for.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987237/
This is pretty good to read through.
And doing something that works on average is best because of the psychological biases people suffer from (you'll count all the times a method worked instead of considering the rate of how another method you don't prefer did work). Or basically:
http://youtu.be/r98WGrcTiqs?t=34s
This is pretty good to read through.
And doing something that works on average is best because of the psychological biases people suffer from (you'll count all the times a method worked instead of considering the rate of how another method you don't prefer did work). Or basically:
http://youtu.be/r98WGrcTiqs?t=34s
condompickle
Banned
how do you punish one then? spanking seemed to work fine for centuries.
How else do you discipline children, when you throw out any negative punishment what else do you have left. Taking away toys and such can only go so far, some children really do need a bit of pain and suffering to learn.
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