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[KKRT00]

This is correct and I feel the amount of money has allowed them to do everything, which is great, but at the end of the day you have to lock down what's going into the finished product and what's going into updates/expansions, rather than trying for everything. Otherwise you end up like Duke Nukem Forever, a game restarted umpteen times because it wasn't perfect

I admire Chris Roberts' vision and enthusiasm but that's not the way to create a finished product




Personally the frontier model is the "right" way to do it, even though SC looks far more impressive, one gives you an actual finished title to put out and improve as time goes by, and the other leads to perpetual development hell

I'd be interested to see if Elite has most of the same features as Star Citizen by the time it releases

The problem is that you dont understand that CIG needs to make SC this way.
The amount of reengineering Frontier will have to do in future to make Elite at least half as functional as SC will be enormous.
Rewritting and reworking stuff is always harder than doing it from the get go and look how much time CIG needed to achieve a lot of technological breakthroughs to make it work like it is working. And CIG has more resources and ex Crytek team behind them.
I think Elite is great game at what it does, but i do not think they will ever manage to make game in way you see in this gamescom presentation. They will probably make it more coop oriented, to eliminate all server calculations.

 

[tuxfool]

Oh good, this thread is much closer to what I expected from the last one.

You have to start the thread with the right mindset to put a burr in people's backsides.

 

[Raziel]

Star Citizen and No Man's Sky are great at planning things.

 

[molnizzle]

I hope I live long enough to actually play this game.

I don't like that Elite is charging for all of the new stuff they release (Horizons for $30, forget it). I want to buy 1 product and know that it's got everything I want already. So I've passed on Elite in hopes that this one won't disappoint.

That is a ridiculous way to look at software development. Frontier can't afford to build new content for a game for years and not charge for it.

 

[tuxfool]

That is a ridiculous way to look at software development. Frontier can't afford to build new content for a game for years and not charge for it.

I think it is less of a question over paying them, but rather paying them piecemeal for features that get layered over existing stuff. Kind of the same issues people have with map packs.

 

[Doikor]

Oh so we're already jumping on the next dream bandwagon where we imagine the potential of a game with rose tinted glasses and just kinda hope it'll be everything we have been hoping for since decades?

That could not possibly disapoint gamers again, could it? Noooo

Let's not learn anything from the whole NMS ordeal.

SC is already so inflated with hope, its fans (especially reddit) are already pretty much turning this game into a sect, just look at the gamescom conference with fans orgasming over a ship's door opening. It'll have the same result as NMS in the end, because the SC bubble keeps inflating and is already larger than anything else out there.

This would apply if we could have started to play NMS alpha 2 years ago with a version that is a month or two behind their latest and greatest all the way to release. There is a difference there.

 

[molnizzle]

I think it is less of a question over paying them, but rather paying them piecemeal for features that get layered over existing stuff. Kind of the same issues people have with map packs.

Well it's that or charge a subscription.

They made the right choice.

 

[gatti-man]

Roberts has planet sized balls to keep adding to the hype pile.

This was already known. Wing commander when it came or was always pushing the envelope. You don't innovate and achieve without some gumption.

 

[tuxfool]

Well it's that or charge a subscription.

They made the right choice.

And a person is well within their rights to dislike it.

 

[RealityCheque]

Can't lie, this looks as cool as fuck. I may actually be ready to buy into this thing.

 

[gatti-man]

Star Citizen and No Man's Sky are great at planning things.

Comparing nms' development team and star citizens is like comparing a eBay one man show PC builder with Dell or Apple. It's that big of a difference.

 

[molnizzle]

And a person is well within their rights to dislike it.

...an irrational person, maybe.

New content isn't just willed into existence. People have to work on it. People that get paychecks.

 

[Muzicfreq]

The main difference is that Star Citizen has the manpower and budget to actually make it happen(maybe).

In a year or more before anyone sees it

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Watched the entire 50 minute demo. Very impressive!
I say this as someone with no investment in the project.

 

[Dougald]

The problem is that you dont understand that CIG needs to make SC this way.
The amount of reengineering Frontier will have to do in future to make Elite at least half as functional as SC will be enormous.
Rewritting and reworking stuff is always harder than doing it from the get go and look how much time CIG needed to achieve a lot of technological breakthroughs to make it work like it is working. And CIG has more resources and ex Crytek team behind them.
I think Elite is great game at what it does, but i do not think they will ever manage to make game in way you see in this gamescom presentation. They will probably make it more coop oriented, to eliminate all server calculations.

I understand how software development works. I also understand that trying to do absolutely every feature you can possibly think of at once is an almost insurmountable task, hence "scope creep"

Don't get me wrong if the game actually releases I'll be first in line to download and play. I kickstarted both titles in 2012 with no expectation of getting my money back just for the chance of a new space sim, whichever it would be. I'm just not completely optimistic Star Citizen can deliver.

 

[tuxfool]

...an irrational person, maybe.

New content isn't just willed into existence. People have to work on it. People that get paychecks.

Sorry, but people are not rational creatures. A person that doesn't like how a product is presented to them doesn't have to buy it.

I don't like map packs. I don't buy map packs and prefer if they were delivered with some other mechanism. I find that sometimes it is preferable to have map packs instead of something like f2p, but I still don't like buying map packs.

 

[Megalo]

At least now we all know why developers are hiding their games behind closed doors until they are nearly done.
Some people just can't understand what a game in development is.

And people are complaining about the financing model of the game (crowdfunding is bad amirite), yet i paid only 50$ and I will get everything the game has to offer... Meanwhile I paid the same price for Elite more than a year ago and now I have to pay that amount again to gain access to basic gameplay features, yay.

 

[RK9039]

At least now we all know why developers are hiding their games behind closed doors until they are nearly done.
Some people just can't understand what a game in development is.

And people are complaining about the financing model of the game (crowdfunding is bad amirite), yet i paid only 50$ and I will get everything the game has to offer... Meanwhile I paid the same price for Elite more than a year ago and now I have to pay that amount again to gain access to basic gameplay features, yay.

Yup, and we're never going to see open development like this again. Some people are just too impatient.

 

[Kurdel]

Yup, and we're never going to see open development like this again. Some people are just too impatient.

"Open development" would imply transparency and communication to when featurs are cut, to manage the backlash. Just like the FPS module cancellation. It can still be done, and despite the hype they generate with checlists of promises, I think they are doing a good job.

 

[tuxfool]

"Open development" would imply transparency and communication to when featurs are cut, to manage the backlash. Just like the FPS module cancellation. It can still be done, and despite the hype they generate with checlists of promises, I think they are doing a good job.

It wasn't cancelled.

They have their own issues with communication, but for the most part they're perfectly willing to say "shit is busted", "or this thing won't work in the game".

 

[jaaz]

The word "hype" seems to be getting grossly miused after some were disappointed with NMS. "Hype" can be defined as "extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion."

SC showed a live, working 55 minute demo that displayed game mechanics they announced years ago. That's not hyping, it's showing the progress you are making on your product. Maybe they hyped SC in the past, but to try and "hype-shame" on this demo is pretty ridiculous if you've actually watched it.

 

[golem]

"Open development" would imply transparency and communication to when featurs are cut, to manage the backlash. Just like the FPS module cancellation. It can still be done, and despite the hype they generate with checlists of promises, I think they are doing a good job.

The module is coming in 2.6. They also explained that it was at first outsourced and they decided they couldnt use what was delivered so they decided to bring it in house. Their communication on the topic wasnt perfect but thats reasonably open imo

 

[NotoriousPUG]

Nope, scripted as in more smoke-and-mirrors, just like the 2.0 demo. For example, the pirates during the space flight section were player controlled and not AI-controlled (source is the same guy that leaked the gamescom presentation).

Why would you need a source? That was part of the demonstration. They even announced the "pirates" on stage.

 

[RK9039]

Why would you need a source? That was part of the demonstration. They even announced the "pirates" on stage.

Derick and his fans are grasping at anything basically. That guy literally thinks it was some kind of on-rails, scripted/fake demo. Maybe it implies that he was a bit impressed considering how quick he was to call it fake.

We'll see with 3.0 I guess.

 

[DieH@rd]

I would up my pledge $5 if they announced they are adding atmospherics [cloud simulation, wind & rain/snow], surface water and flora.

 

[Kieli]

Ah yes, good 'ol Star Citizen that had its crowdfunding to an astonishing $100 mil with unbelievable feature creep to go along with it.

The only devs I trust to deliver on anything is Persona team, CDProjeckt, and FromSoft.

 

[atpbx]

I still don't get what this game is. Tried to go see the pre-ordern and it was a pre-order of a single player campaign plus a bunch of REALLY FUCKING EXPENSIVE ships and content. Like ridiculously expensive, close to a grand for an in-game starship what the fuck.

It's the same price to buy as any other game.
If you choose to pledge more, they give you a bigger ship early , or you can pledge and get more than one ship early.

Every ship can be earned in game, just like elite.
Sure if you are a bit dim and you have the attention span of a toddler it looks pay to win, but reading is hard so its understandable if some people jump to the wrong conclusions.

 

[danthefan]

I still don't get what this game is. Tried to go see the pre-ordern and it was a pre-order of a single player campaign plus a bunch of REALLY FUCKING EXPENSIVE ships and content. Like ridiculously expensive, close to a grand for an in-game starship what the fuck.

I paid $30 for the game initially. I've since upped that to $60 which is what games cost. That's all I'll be paying.

 

[Sax Russel]

Why would you need a source? That was part of the demonstration. They even announced the "pirates" on stage.

I've seen enough of that guy's posts in SC threads to know to just let my eyes immediately slide down to the next post in a thread instead of reading the shit he spews. When the game is finally complete in 2040 (kek) he'll be sitting on his porch shaking his cane claiming everyone playing it is just under the influence of some mind control tech (installed in Chris' Ferrari) that CIG *really* spent their millions on to make everyone think they're playing it.

 

[gatti-man]

Ah yes, good 'ol Star Citizen that had its crowdfunding to an astonishing $100 mil with unbelievable feature creep to go along with it.

The only devs I trust to deliver on anything is Persona team, CDProjeckt, and FromSoft.

Very insightful post there. Anything else captain obvious? Next you'll regale me with insight like "the only company I trust to make Mario games is Nintendo".

Chris Roberts has earned the right to have some faith attached to his name. Just as much as any of those studios you named.

Moving on the single player should be out next year. Full star citizen could take until 2020 to be fully there. And rightfully so. They are trying to do something no one else ever has. I don't even really like paying attention to the star citizen stuff because if squadron 42 doesn't do well star citizen will probably change drastically. Either in release date, gameplay, or just not come it at all.

Squadron 42 is the immediate.

 

[Aselith]

How a game with a $100 million budget and a team of 16,000 people plan to do what a game with a $10 budget and a team of 10 people doesn't, amirite?

In the end, they'll both be $60 products though. The scope of the team should only be considered if they also have a 10-person team price.

"Open development" would imply transparency and communication to when featurs are cut, to manage the backlash. Just like the FPS module cancellation. It can still be done, and despite the hype they generate with checlists of promises, I think they are doing a good job.

They showed off FPS in the Gamescom demo...

 

[Gunslinger]

Will this game have any ground combat? Or mostly just space combat?

 

[Rapscallion74]

Looks great, however I am not dropping a cent on this game till it's done, and god knows when that will be.

 

[danthefan]

The two games are going for completely different experiences. The whole point of NMS is to explore a near infinite galaxy without handcrafted worlds. This feels like they're just using the negative backlash at MNS to prop up their own game.

Oh, the devs write for GameSpot now?

It doesn't feel like anything of the sort.

 

[gatti-man]

Looks great, however I am not dropping a cent on this game till it's done, and god knows when that will be.

I have them $35 of my dollars when it was in Kickstarter. Even if it never comes out the alpha stuff I've played through and had fun with id say I got my money's worth. Just for everyone to come together and point out that there is a huge market for space sci fi that's being ignored was worth my $35 to me.

 

[Kieli]

Very insightful post there. Anything else captain obvious? Next you'll regale me with insight like "the only company I trust to make Mario games is Nintendo".

Chris Roberts has earned the right to have some faith attached to his name. Just as much as any of those studios you named.

Moving on the single player should be out next year. Full star citizen could take until 2020 to be fully there. And rightfully so. They are trying to do something no one else ever has. I don't even really like paying attention to the star citizen stuff because if squadron 42 doesn't do well star citizen will probably change drastically. Either in release date, gameplay, or just not come it at all.

Squadron 42 is the immediate.

The only company I trust to make Pokemon games is Niantic.

 

[Steel]

Will this game have any ground combat? Or mostly just space combat?

It will have ground combat with vehicles and on-foot action. If you want to see what that looks like, check out the planetside gamescom stream.

 

[UrbanRats]

While I would LOVE for Star Citizen to be all its hyped up to be, I hope after NMS people don't fall for the exact same cycle and end up being disappointed again.

I feel it's a bit ironic media and some gamers are basically like "NMS might have failed to do this, but this time it's different!"

I don't disagree with you on the general sentiment, but this is a tad different.

Development time for this is incredibly longer (and the game isn't really close to release, either) and the budget and team behind the two games are also not comparable.

More over, this seems to aim for a smaller holistic scope, and to put much more work into every single planet/element, instead.

So thinking this will be different, isn't completely baseless.

 

[tuxfool]

It will have ground combat with vehicles and on-foot action. If you want to see what that looks like, check out the planetside gamescom stream.

or the video in the OP.

 

[SolarMystic]

What is with the awful cheering at the most mundane of actions these guys are doing?

 

[Theanine3D]

That is a ridiculous way to look at software development. Frontier can't afford to build new content for a game for years and not charge for it.

Obviously, which is why I'd rather they wait before releasing the game so they have time to add those features in a single, finished, polished product available on release day. That's exactly what the developers of Star Citizen are doing.

I'd rather wait years for it to release so long as it's feature complete once it it does. Whereas with Elite and No Man's Sky, basic features one expects in a space sim are either missing or planned for release in a distant future update. The ability to land on a planet in Elite, for example, is something I expected at a bare minimum from a space sim, but not only did people have to wait after release for that feature but they were asked to pay extra for it on top of the base game. And the accusations about No Man's Sky being a glorified tech demo aren't coming from nowhere.

The development of Star Citizen has been very transparent and I've already seen more interesting things to do in the game than No Man's Sky. So far it looks like the wait will be worth it.

 

[atpbx]

The problem is that you dont understand that CIG needs to make SC this way.
The amount of reengineering Frontier will have to do in future to make Elite at least half as functional as SC will be enormous.
Rewritting and reworking stuff is always harder than doing it from the get go and look how much time CIG needed to achieve a lot of technological breakthroughs to make it work like it is working. And CIG has more resources and ex Crytek team behind them.
I think Elite is great game at what it does, but i do not think they will ever manage to make game in way you see in this gamescom presentation. They will probably make it more coop oriented, to eliminate all server calculations.

Let's not beat around the bush, Elite is boring as fuck.

The expansion is expensive and underwhelming, the game play is stale, repetitive, uninvolved, soulless and sterile.
There is little to no incentive to actually play it, if you don't like looking at pool balls in space or spending 20 minutes doing a run that gets you 0.1% closer to earning the next ship, then sucks to be you.

OR you play it as most of the players do, and just exploit the fuck out of its broken mechanics and earn billions of credits in a day or two and have no reason to play it all outside of griefing the people trying to play it properly.
(More hours in than I care to mention, same CMDR name as here if you want to check, Long enough to make a fair assessment of the game I feel)

 

[AwesomeMeat]

Let's not beat around the bush, Elite is boring as fuck.

The expansion is expensive and underwhelming, the game play is stale, repetitive, uninvolved, soulless and sterile.
There is little to no incentive to actually play it, if you don't like looking at pool balls in space or spending 20 minutes doing a run that gets you 0.1% closer to earning the next ship, then sucks to be you.

OR you play it as most of the players do, and just exploit the fuck out of its broken mechanics and earn billions of credits in a day or two and have no reason to play it all outside of griefing the people trying to play it properly.
(More hours in than I care to mention, same CMDR name as here if you want to check, Long enough to make a fair assessment of the game I feel)

I like elite. But then again, I also like Euro Truck Simulator. I guess space trucking wasn't your thing.

 

[golem]

I would up my pledge $5 if they announced they are adding atmospherics [cloud simulation, wind & rain/snow], surface water and flora.

Theyve announced weather, biomes, flora and fauna, oceans and space whales already!

http://imperialnews.network/2016/05/10-for-developers-episode-08/

They plan to show a much improved planet at Citizencon in October

 

[UpDownLeftRight]

I like elite. But then again, I also like Euro Truck Simulator. I guess space trucking wasn't your thing.

Elite Is supposed to be more than that though. I tried being a bounty hunter going after other players and it's practically impossible since it doesn't supply the tools. Your best bet is check bounties at a near station and really cross your fingers that you ever encounter each other.

 

[UKUMI0]

Let's not beat around the bush, Elite is boring as fuck.

The expansion is expensive and underwhelming, the game play is stale, repetitive, uninvolved, soulless and sterile.
There is little to no incentive to actually play it, if you don't like looking at pool balls in space or spending 20 minutes doing a run that gets you 0.1% closer to earning the next ship, then sucks to be you.

OR you play it as most of the players do, and just exploit the fuck out of its broken mechanics and earn billions of credits in a day or two and have no reason to play it all outside of griefing the people trying to play it properly.
(More hours in than I care to mention, same CMDR name as here if you want to check, Long enough to make a fair assessment of the game I feel)

For me Elite is closer to a space trader sim game, simulator games can be boring, but for most people the enjoyment comes from the fact that it's different enough from their day to day that it's a new experience.

Star Citizen is a cinematic game where it makes you feel like you're a character in a movie, which is way more mainstream and exciting but you don't get that same feeling that the game could be real life.

No Man's Sky is the arcade version, where its not really deep and really easy to get into.

All three games have an audience, its all about what you want to get out of the game.

A game doesn't have to cater to everyone.

 

[RK9039]

Let's not beat around the bush, Elite is boring as fuck.

The expansion is expensive and underwhelming, the game play is stale, repetitive, uninvolved, soulless and sterile.
There is little to no incentive to actually play it, if you don't like looking at pool balls in space or spending 20 minutes doing a run that gets you 0.1% closer to earning the next ship, then sucks to be you.

OR you play it as most of the players do, and just exploit the fuck out of its broken mechanics and earn billions of credits in a day or two and have no reason to play it all outside of griefing the people trying to play it properly.
(More hours in than I care to mention, same CMDR name as here if you want to check, Long enough to make a fair assessment of the game I feel)

I haven't bought Horizons yet, but the vanilla game definitely gets boring. I probably put around a 50 hours (I'm guessing) into it because I loved progressing to the next ship and eventually stopped playing entirely when I got to the Imperial Clipper. Outside of that it was really boring. Combat mechanics are really good though, and trading is strangely satisfying.

I think it just goes to show that a massive amount of systems/planets isn't enough, I felt like after jumping to a bunch of star systems that basically I saw all other systems. There definitely were a few awesome exploration moments here and there like jumping into a system with three stars in it, or a dwarf star but that's really all I found. The game has huge potential though so I'm definitely looking forward to what they end up doing with the game with these Seasons.

 

[injurai]

What is with the awful cheering at the most mundane of actions these guys are doing?

People are cheering at development progress, and the promise that their progress holds for the future.

 

[golem]

I haven't bought Horizons yet, but the vanilla game definitely gets boring. I probably put around a 50 hours (I'm guessing) into it because I loved progressing to the next ship and eventually stopped playing entirely when I got to the Imperial Clipper. Outside of that it was really boring. Combat is really good though, and trading is strangely satisfying.

I think it just goes to show that a massive amount of systems/planets isn't enough, I felt like after jumping to a bunch of star systems that basically I saw all other systems. There definitely were a few awesome exploration moments here and there like jumping into a system with three stars in it, or a dwarf star but that's really all I found. The game has huge potential though so I'm definitely looking forward to what they end up doing with the game with these Seasons.

Yep thats one of the reasons I held off on No Man's Sky at launch, even if being skeptical about the promised gameplay the game still seems like it could be fun but I'm doubtful it would hold my interest for long enough to justify my $60.

I have a Lifetime Expansion Pass for Elite Dangerous and have played a good amount of it but to be honest I've had so many more memorable experiences just fooling around in the SC Alpha with randoms than all my time in Elite and that is disappointing. The announced updates don't seem to be adding all that much to the game either.

 

[Jinkies]

According to some GAFers, Star Citizen was a scam, and now it is just a naïve pipe dream. Progress.