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How was Oblivion better than Skyrim?

I mean, you're comparing thieves guild in oblivion to dark brotherhood in Skyrim. You really ought to compare dark brotherhood in oblivion to dark brotherhood in Skyrim. The Dark brotherhood in Oblivion is still top notch and arguably the best designed quests in Oblivion with multiple interesting solutions.

No, comparing events concerning Elder Scrolls is roughly equivalent with comparing events concerning the Emperor. Both are significant aspects of Tamriel. Both are the subject of long plotlines and a series of quests, both are the focus of one of the game's guilds, etc. You can't push the acquisition of an Elder Scroll as evidence that Skyrim is consistently bad while ignoring the things Skyrim actually did well.

Again...barely any dungeon involved in the Emperor assassination plot. Given that was the primary criticism about the Elder Scroll line, it serves as a pretty significant counter-example.

Also

arguably the best designed quests in Oblivion with multiple interesting solutions.

I'm pretty sure there's only one resolution to most of the DB quests? Unless you're talking about ways to kill people, which Skyrim also has. For example if you talk to your fellow assassins before doing the wedding assassination, one of them mentions a gargoyle is loose above the balcony where the bride gives her speech, and you can push it down, which was specifically designed for this quest. Another member places a unique bow for you on a facing sniper perch. Or the quest where you need to kill the Emperor at dinner...you can poison his food, or forego that and kill him in any number of creative ways.
 

Risev1

Member
But if you want to talk significant plot points, you could just as easily compare the death of the emperor in Oblivion to Skyrim...which had most of the Dark Brotherhood quest line devoted to it, involved multiple stages of planning and setup, deception, betrayal, near-destruction of the guild, some really horrific scenes, the ultimate confrontation and a satisfying denouement.

And the only dungeon involved is a short duck into one to meet the client. After that you're assassinating someone in broad daylight at a wedding, getting a guy's schedule as he patrols Skyrim and ambushing him wherever convenient, killing a chef within a keep and hunting down the world famous Gourmet at the inn he's staying at, infiltrating the Emperor's dining room, and finally his ship. A strictly urban and personal series of missions.

It's always six of one, half a dozen of the other. Anything one does well, the other has a near equal example of doing well, and often the edge goes to Skyrim.

Dark Brotherhood was good in Skyrim. Yet I can't think of a quest besides the 2 you've mentioned (Wedding one and assassinating the emperor on the ship). But that itself brings another problem. In the emperor quest, you could literally just kill everyone on the ship alongside the emperor, and the reward stays the same if I'm remembering correctly. It can be played as yet another dungeon crawl, yet this time on a ship. Oblivion incentivized stealth by offering unique rewards to completing the mission in unique ways. Besides,the death of the emperor has no frigging effect on the world at all besides a couple of lines here and there from guards. If we're talking significant plot points, then this was actually an example of how terrible the plot is in Skyrim. Skyrim takes place during a civil war, with extremely fragile relationships between the Thalmor and the empire. You literally assassinate the emperor, and yet this changes absolutely NOTHING in the game. Not the civil war questline, not the main plot, not the relationship with the Thalmore, nothing. It's poorly thought out.

But yeah, Dark Brotherhood isn't bad at all in Skyrim. All the other guilds, however, are terrible. Companions was the nearly the worse of the bunch of course, with an opponent faction that might as well be regular bandints (they most definitely were reskinned bandits without a single named character that is relevant. The witches were also just regular hagravens). The thieves guild wasn't bad, but absolutely pales in comparison to Oblivion's since most thieving you'll be doing involves radiant quests that have you sneak into NPC's 2x2 ft houses and stealing a few things. Compare that to Oblivion which has you sneak into a unique location for the majority of the quests. College of Winterhold is absolutely the worst, which is only to be expected considering mages' guild in Oblivion was also the weakest. Yet still, College of Winterhold was far worst, having you go through yet more regular old dungeon crawls with nothing else. Oblivion's at least had you do stuff like creating your own staff, deal with enchanted items that affect you mechanically, use magic to solve puzzles, and deal with the inner politics of the different guild hubs. It wasn't very good, but it made me feel like a member of an actual organization of mages.

Here's Skyrim's college of winterhold questline: Get a quick lesson, which I actually enjoyed since it made me feel like a mage for a few minutes. > Dungeon crawl > dungeon crawl > decent investigative quest > dungeon crawl > decent quest about defending town > dungeon crawl > boss fight and ending

None of the dungeon crawls even involve you doing anything mage-like if your character was not a mage. You could just go in with heavy armor and a 2-handed mace all the same, like any other dungeon in the game. The side quests for the college of winterhold also usually ask you to delve into yet another dungeon to retrieve an item, or go around the college looking for someone's misplaced items and whatnot. There are a few exceptions, but that's the point: the good, interesting stuff is the exception here, not the norm.

I know I'm being very harsh on Skyrim here. Oblivion's guild-quests also usually involve a dungeon crawl. But they usually involve much more story and doing stuff OUTSIDE of dungeons. That's the difference here. All I remember from guild's in Skyrim are dungeon crawls. Thinking about Oblivion, on the other hand, and I remember setting up meeting with counts (who may or may not be vampires), dealing with other guild members who end up betraying you, actually interacting with other factions who end up being the enemy, and more. Some of that happens in Skyrim (see why Dark Brotherhood is actually good in Skyrim), but Oblivion has that stuff in spades.

It's worth mentioning that Skyrim's deadric quests are usually far better than their oblivion counterparts, and I do agree that the world in Skyrim is far more varied and diverse. Forests in Oblivion were randomly generated if I'm not mistaken, and exploring for the sake of exploration wasn't very rewarding due to loading hiccups and repetitive landscapes. I just think that, when speaking in terms of quest design, Obliviion comes out at top in most side quests and guild quests, with the exception of the deadric quests.

On a different note, Dragonborn was a good expansion pack. However, I remember the main questline in it lasting less than 3 hours, and I'm sure I'm not mistaken about that since I went through it again earlier this year. Side quests were fine, but nothing in Dragonborn comes toe-to-toe with Sheogorath and how unique the Mania and Dimensia regions were.
 

PK Gaming

Member
I'm surprised more users haven't harped on the rare items or lack thereof in Skyrim. Oblivion had tons of unique legendary loot with insane abilities. Reviving the dead, making clones, etc.

I can't even remember a single legendary item in that game.
 

Humdinger

Member
I prefer Skyrim to Oblivion, but all the positive talk about Oblivion makes me wonder about a remastered or remade version. Hope they do it. I believe the Skyrim remaster was successful. I know most people would prefer a Morrowind remake, but I don't think that is going to happen.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I prefer Skyrim to Oblivion, but all the positive talk about Oblivion makes me wonder about a remastered version. Hope they do it.

Oblivion has just as big of a mod scene as Skyrim. You can do some really nice things with them in the absence of an official remastered release.
 

iMerc

Member
I really liked Oblivion's subversive element. Looks like a happy "generic" fantasy setting on the surface, but there is so much sinister conduct going on beneath it all. Pretty much no town is as clean as it might seem at first.

Skyrim looked gloomy, was gloomy, full of gloomy people.

that's part of the setting though. that's not a game design/narrative fault.
the nords are generally more 'half glass empty' than the other races. and it' in skyrim; the coldest fucking place on the continent that's bound to make even the happiest idiot go "fucking hell, heavy forecast and dead crops, again. FML."
this is also a few hundred years after oblivion, and the empire is in significant decline.
it all actually fits rather well.

personally, i did enjoy the lighter tone of oblivion, but aside from oblivion gates showing up all over the countryside, characters were generally living in a happier time.
there you go; narrative explains it all. :p
 
Besides,the death of the emperor has no frigging effect on the world at all besides a couple of lines here and there from guards. If we're talking significant plot points, then this was actually an example of how terrible the plot is in Skyrim.

And how does the world change once you steal an Elder Scroll in Oblivion...?

I'm surprised more users haven't harped on the rare items or lack thereof in Skyrim. Oblivion had tons of unique legendary loot with insane abilities. Reviving the dead, making clones, etc.

I can't even remember a single legendary item in that game.

Man are you kidding? It had achievements for getting like 15 daedric artifacts, many of them the same as in Oblivion including Wabbajack. Every dragon priest mask had a different effect, some of them totally unique. There's the Amulet of Articulation that makes all persuasion checks automatically succeed and greatly improves prices everywhere. There's the lengthy Stones of Barenziah quest, and the Ebony Blade that's been whispering to the jarl's son in Dragonsreach. There was the Notched Pickaxe embedded in the Throat of the World, which had a unique enchantment that you could apply to other pickaxes. In fact I remember quite a few of the unique enchantment items because those let you disenchant them to learn it permanently and apply to others, like the Poacher's Axe, Battleaxe of Fiery Souls, or Gloves of the Pugilist. A lot of characters had unique gear you could steal from them or take from their corpses, like Cicero's jester outfit. Dawnguard revolves completely around Auriel's Bow and Sunhallowed/Bloodcursed arrows, and also added vampire jewelry that applied unique perks to your character in vampire form. Dragonborn had the Deathbrand armor set as a result of a viking treasure hunt, and also Ahzidal's set from a lengthy series of quests involving an archaeological dig, which also provided unique and powerful effects like boosting your enchanting beyond its normal cap.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Man are you kidding? It had achievements for getting like 15 daedric artifacts, many of them the same as in Oblivion including Wabbajack. Every dragon priest mask had a different effect, some of them totally unique. There's the Amulet of Articulation that makes all persuasion checks automatically succeed and greatly improves prices everywhere. There's the lengthy Stones of Barenziah quest, and the Ebony Blade that's been whispering to the jarl's son in Dragonsreach. There was the Notched Pickaxe embedded in the Throat of the World, which had a unique enchantment that you could apply to other pickaxes. In fact I remember quite a few of the unique enchantment items because those let you disenchant them to learn it permanently and apply to others, like the Poacher's Axe, Battleaxe of Fiery Souls, or Gloves of the Pugilist. A lot of characters had unique gear you could steal from them or take from their corpses, like Cicero's jester outfit. Dawnguard revolves completely around Auriel's Bow and Sunhallowed/Bloodcursed arrows, and also added vampire jewelry that applied unique perks to your character in vampire form. Dragonborn had the Deathbrand armor set as a result of a viking treasure hunt, and also Ahzidal's set from a lengthy series of quests involving an archaeological dig, which also provided unique and powerful effects like boosting your enchanting beyond its normal cap.

I remember that cool Ebony armor that had that nice darkness/poison effect, but everything else is a total blur. I guess my issue is that there aren't many legendary items that offer unique effects. Like the Battleaxe of Fiery Souls is an axe with soul trap + fire damage. Please, I could make a enchanted weapon without even trying!

The DLC items were definitely great though, and I totally forgot about Skyrim's Wabbajack. Auriel's bow was amazing. Gimme more of that!
 
Oh I know the effects themselves aren't particularly special but I liked that it meant you could combine it with another enchant, like ice damage, plus fire+trap. Or another one I liked was the chaos enchant from Dragonborn, only guaranteed on one weapon there, though an item with it could also drop randomly if you were lucky.
 

BigDug13

Member
Oblivion had better quests
Guilds / rewards
Crafting (gear, alchemy, etc)
Leveling
Cities / towns
Expansion area


For me, the only thing Skyrim had going for it was better graphics. But the game was just blah to me, and way dumbed down.

And lots of people say the same things going to Morrowind to Oblivion.

I'd say the leveling part I don't agree with based on the fact that everything in the game scaled to you and you alone. NPC's in your main quest would get slaughtered if you did it at high level because the enemies were scaled to your advanced level. Loot sucked ass and you could never strive to get something you shouldn't because enemies and loot never exceeded your level. Bandits ended up in Daedric armor wielding glass weapons when you got higher. BANDITS on the road ended up wielding the game's top gear.
 

Sagroth

Member
-Better Guild quests.
-Better Daedric quests.
-Had an Arena.
-Shivering Isles was fantastic.
-Spellmaking.

That said, I thought the perk system in Skyrim was waaaaay better than the shit leveling up system in Oblivion.
 

eXistor

Member
For me it was the setting. I really dislike the snow areas and overall drab feel of Skyrim. I much prefer wooded areas and swamps. Snow areas in general are my least favorite in gaming unless it's the stereotypical X-massy vibe with perfect blanket of snow, blue skies, smoking chimnies, christmas tress and lights.

/edit: when push comes to shove though: they both kinda suck.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Man are you kidding? It had achievements for getting like 15 daedric artifacts, many of them the same as in Oblivion including Wabbajack. Every dragon priest mask had a different effect, some of them totally unique. There's the Amulet of Articulation that makes all persuasion checks automatically succeed and greatly improves prices everywhere. There's the lengthy Stones of Barenziah quest, and the Ebony Blade that's been whispering to the jarl's son in Dragonsreach. There was the Notched Pickaxe embedded in the Throat of the World, which had a unique enchantment that you could apply to other pickaxes. In fact I remember quite a few of the unique enchantment items because those let you disenchant them to learn it permanently and apply to others, like the Poacher's Axe, Battleaxe of Fiery Souls, or Gloves of the Pugilist. A lot of characters had unique gear you could steal from them or take from their corpses, like Cicero's jester outfit. Dawnguard revolves completely around Auriel's Bow and Sunhallowed/Bloodcursed arrows, and also added vampire jewelry that applied unique perks to your character in vampire form. Dragonborn had the Deathbrand armor set as a result of a viking treasure hunt, and also Ahzidal's set from a lengthy series of quests involving an archaeological dig, which also provided unique and powerful effects like boosting your enchanting beyond its normal cap.

Yeah but those items are very limited, primarily because of how limiting the effects are in Skyrim - most of the Oblivion items were redid as minor stat buffs

You don't have that staff that shoots undead and daedra for instance, or the ones that make people angry at you.
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
that's part of the setting though. that's not a game design/narrative fault.
the nords are generally more 'half glass empty' than the other races. and it' in skyrim; the coldest fucking place on the continent that's bound to make even the happiest idiot go "fucking hell, heavy forecast and dead crops, again. FML."
this is also a few hundred years after oblivion, and the empire is in significant decline.
it all actually fits rather well.

personally, i did enjoy the lighter tone of oblivion, but aside from oblivion gates showing up all over the countryside, characters were generally living in a happier time.
there you go; narrative explains it all. :p

Oh, I'm not saying it was some kind of fault in their intention, I just didn't find it as interesting as Oblivion's setting.
 
You don't have that staff that shoots undead and daedra for instance, or the ones that make people angry at you.

Which staff is that? Wabbajack? That's in both. And if you want everyone to be angry at you, you can just turn into a werewolf which wasn't in Oblivion.

I dunno I feel like in general both Skyrim and Oblivion were full of "unique items" that just had regular enchants on them, and both have a couple standouts that break the mold. I mean, look. Fortify this, drain that...
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Which staff is that? Wabbajack? That's in both. And if you want everyone to be angry at you, you can just turn into a werewolf which wasn't in Oblivion.

I dunno I feel like in general both Skyrim and Oblivion were full of "unique items" that just had regular enchants on them, and both have a couple standouts that break the mold. I mean, look. Fortify this, drain that...
no, the rose and the skull

Also skyrim doesn't have shit like Stark Reality
 

psyfi

Banned
I noticed this is on XB1 backwards compatability and was thinking of getting it... I hated it back in the day but that was before I knew how to really appreciate the trademark Bethesda jank.
 
I have put hundreds upon hundreds of hours into Oblivion over the years and have to complete even one main story quest except for the starting sewers. Maybe I got to the first Oblivion gate but I sure as shit didn’t finish it, thought it was very boring, then went back to the arena
 
in oblivion they can turn on you

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sanguine_Rose

If you've given the staff to a follower, they may use it. However, if you accidentally attack the summoned Dremora, it will retaliate unless you sheathe your weapon.

I guess that's a little more specific.

If you really want an interesting item that doesn't make a second appearance, a better example is the Staff of the Everscamp. But really, Skyrim has enough examples of items with unique effects on its own, it's not particularly deficient by comparison.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Sanguine_Rose

I guess that's a little more specific.

If you really want an interesting item that doesn't make a second appearance, a better example is the Staff of the Everscamp. But really, Skyrim has enough examples of items with unique effects on its own, it's not particularly deficient by comparison.

There are also spells which aren't more restricted due to Skyrim's system.
 
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