Thaedolus
Member
Well if you believe all this then they'd be right.
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I am so tired of the whole 30 fps this 60fps that discussion. You all lost the sight on what really matters and it's ruining console gaming
nkarafo
Member
That's because you really don't know how to work a computer.
AtomicStarving
Member
No matter how powerful next-gen consoles are, devs will ALWAYS find a way to run new games at 30fps. Facts. But the good news is more and more games is getting 60/120fps modes. So, everything is fine, for now 
93xfan
Banned
All the people acting like Zelda TotK and Starfield is beneath them is ludicrous.
Did they snub their noses at Bloodbourne, Halo (pre 2014) and Destiny 1?
in many ways those experiences have yet to be matched again.
For PvE and single player, 30FPS is acceptable, when the project is ambitious. Pokémon at 30FPS is absurd. Zelda TotK at 30FPS is amazing.
Did they snub their noses at Bloodbourne, Halo (pre 2014) and Destiny 1?
in many ways those experiences have yet to be matched again.
For PvE and single player, 30FPS is acceptable, when the project is ambitious. Pokémon at 30FPS is absurd. Zelda TotK at 30FPS is amazing.
HazukiSensei
Banned
Ive definitely seen people get snarky if the gane is sub 4k. Or atleast definitely get snarky if the game is sub 4k at 30fps.because they equate 4k as the most important thing for fidelity modes. Which is also wrong.
And im not sure people understand that it can be a substantial sacrifice, in some cases a generational one at times.
Thyuda
Member
It's 2023 and people still argue in favor of 30fps. I tried the FF demo yesterday on my Samsung QD Oled, the 30fps mode was simply put rancid.
Even my wife, who is one of the most untechnical people I know, prefers 60fps every time I show her the comparison in a new game. I don't even mention what's different, and, without fail, she's chosing the 60fps mode.
You're also not goint go notice 4k as much if you sit 3 meters away from it in your living room. Stop accepting and even arguing for an inferior product.
Even my wife, who is one of the most untechnical people I know, prefers 60fps every time I show her the comparison in a new game. I don't even mention what's different, and, without fail, she's chosing the 60fps mode.
You're also not goint go notice 4k as much if you sit 3 meters away from it in your living room. Stop accepting and even arguing for an inferior product.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
30fps is so bad I will literally turn down every graphical setting needed to get to 60fps, if it's locked to 30 the game is fucking DEAD to me.
30fps is a compromise too extreme and NEVER worthwhile.
30fps is a compromise too extreme and NEVER worthwhile.
Fatal Chuck Yeager
Member
Games were 60fps until 3D, which started going from 20 to 40, and then we ended up at 60fps there too late decade, even the 360 era for most games outside some early HD struggles. Since PS4 and One we have been running backwards.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
backawrds? framerates after 360 and ps3 are much more stable if not straight up 60.
To have a stable 30 fps game on 360 would be considered a dream scenario lol.
And while technically nes/snes were 60fps for most part, the games animations and graphics of course updated at a lower rate sometimes. But input lag was 60fps, so correct there
DeaDPo0L84
Member
As someone who has nearly 2k hours in Destiny the experience was surpassed when I played on m+kb @ 120fps and 4k. That's what people aren't getting, higher framerate can make a game go from being bearable to actually enjoyable and feel lioe an entirely different game.
We should always be pushing technology forward, just because something was suitable years ago should not be an excuse to roll over and accept that'll be the norm forever.
Again if you enjoy 30fps, nobody is taking that away from you, from the looks of it you'll be getting more of it if you're a console exclusive player. But people need to stop defending it like it's not a drastically different experience from 60-120fps, that's objectively false.
Rac3r
Member
Nothing wrong with people having a preference for 60 FPS and expecting an option for it in 2023. At the end of the day, 30 FPS hasn't stopped certain games from selling millions of copies to being critically acclaimed (e.g. Bloodborne, TLOU2, Zelda). You obviously made this post as a response to the Starfield news, and well, no one has gotten a bigger pass than Bethesda when it comes to bug-riddled games, due to their scope and complexity. They'll be fine.
I do agree with what you said about motion blur though. People dismiss it too easily these days. It's awful for competitive games, but can be a great option in single player, 30 FPS games. Before Horizon's 40hz mode, I played it in quality at 30 FPS with motion blur enabled. Felt fantastic.
I do agree with what you said about motion blur though. People dismiss it too easily these days. It's awful for competitive games, but can be a great option in single player, 30 FPS games. Before Horizon's 40hz mode, I played it in quality at 30 FPS with motion blur enabled. Felt fantastic.
Fatal Chuck Yeager
Member
You're talking about the early HD struggles I mentioned, years in 60fps was much more common for more complex games than the previous gen which also 60fps focused. Any games still 30fps were stable.
OnePS4 era started with some games at 30fps with dips. 60fps locked was a constant problem so games aimed for 30fps or if they were 60fps were often unlocked. The more complex the games got the worse thing were for the hardware that's why both companies released new hardware in the middle of the generation.
Now this era we have the GPU but not the CPU balance are the era of 60fps being plentiful for major titles is again out of grasp.
bad guy
as bad as Danny Zuko in gym knickers
This shows you never understood PC gaming. It's just so much more. I can't believe what I'm reading holy fucking shit.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
are you joking with me right now?
I never understood pc gaming?!
YOU SURE YOU WANT TO GO THERE?!
From s3(I have like 4 of these even now), 3dfx, gefore2,3,4,fx,radeon cards... 8800 and so on so on so on.
you are talking to a person who spent all his growing life religiously pc gaming. I have a history of it. I've build more computers than you have probably even seen, at a younger age than your brain apparently is.
I even recently rebought my 3dfx diamond voodoo1 and I have a few 1995-1999 computers which I've only few years ago put together.
You really don't think I didn't spent years modding and tweaking? I am still the guy who builds computers for all his coworkers mind you.
How much time did you spent in morrowind editor? Because I spent hundreds of hours there. [DOES THAT CLASSIFY ME AS PC MR GAMER ?]
I am not posting pics of my builds and history now. not today. I am not eating the bait that hard
What kind of bullshit is that. Where is the metric to "understand" pc gaming. Is it 600 steam games maybe? Or is it 700? Which number do I have to have finished to be a pc gamer?
For me, there was this moment, when just playing the game on a console was nice, relaxing experience. A different experience to usual pc stuff. helped a lot that games on early 360 were exclusive and very impressive.
I kinda reexplored my gaming habits after getting a 360. After which I returned to pc gaming until ps4 and now 5. I now have both pc and console and game on both.
it's not that my pc experience was bad. It was always good and I remember my teen days great. It's just that I also remember my console days great. it was just about playing and finishing games without any other care. I learnt to kinda loosen up and don't care as much if it's 59 or 60fps you know. Not that it was overbearing but it's a nice change.
I just don't care much for settings and modding as much nowadays. I still find comfort in just playing the game on console without activating my ocd and wasting time which becomes more and more precious by the year...
Of course when I play on pc I take full advantage. Why not. I am playing modded ff7 right now for example.
Unless you are talking about using pc for "all the other things" to which I answer that it's a different topic. I obviously write to you know from my PC lol. I've got work pc for excel if that's what you are asking about. Obviously I am not working on a ps5.
edit: I might have some trouble exploring my "gaming identity" but recently I am finding myself more on the chill console side rather than annoying pcmr. Not that it has anything to do with this topic or 30fps mind you.
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onnextflix5
Member
Every game should have 60fps option on ps5 and Xbox, if you the want the best graphics, then use 30fps mode, simple
b0uncyfr0
Member
OP, thats all bullshit. 30 fps never felt good to me. Even on older consoles. Just cause a standard has been there for a long time doesnt mean we cant move on.
60 fps has so many benefits, more fluid motion, better input handling, more responsive handling. 30 fps needs neds to die. GTFO here with this 30 fps is ok bullshit. Its 2023, these current consoles are more than capable of doing 60 fps - if it takes a year longer to do do, then so be it!
But dont sit there and say 30 is acceptable, its not. Especially if it's the only option - thats completely backwards.
60 fps has so many benefits, more fluid motion, better input handling, more responsive handling. 30 fps needs neds to die. GTFO here with this 30 fps is ok bullshit. Its 2023, these current consoles are more than capable of doing 60 fps - if it takes a year longer to do do, then so be it!
But dont sit there and say 30 is acceptable, its not. Especially if it's the only option - thats completely backwards.
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Guilty_AI
Member
trans-hardware non-binary fps conformist
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
S
I just wanted to highlight, that however you play, you should not forget what it is all about and not fixate on some stuff too much.
30fps is ok for me but as I've said... depends on the game. Demons Souls feels AWFUL in 30fps. I tried really hard and its so hard to play
It wasn't my exact intent to convince people to like 30fps.
I just wanted to highlight, that however you play, you should not forget what it is all about and not fixate on some stuff too much.
30fps is ok for me but as I've said... depends on the game. Demons Souls feels AWFUL in 30fps. I tried really hard and its so hard to play
alphachino
Member
You absolutely can use a PC like a console connected to your tv with a long HDMI cable. Steam Big Picture mode is awesome now, just like the steam deck. If you have other launchers, you can combine them all with Playnite and that is also awesome.
Sentenza
Member
Fuck that shit.
I don't even want to play CHESS at 30 fps.
In fact, even dragging windows on the desktop below 60fps annoys me.
165hz is life.
FullMetalx117
Member
99.9% of the people in the world don't even know what FPS is. So agreed, it doesn't matter at all. A shitty game is a shitty game even if it plays at 120 fps. Notice people only complain about FPS for the "good" games
Drizzlehell
Banned
What can I say, if a game runs at lower framerates, I get a headache. But some motherfuckers have trouble grasping this notion.
OverHeat
« generous god »
Tech evolved…deal with it
Fbh
Member
While I agree 30fps isn't "unplayable". I still vastly prefer 60fps, I wish all devs focused on 60fps and hearing a game is 30fps is always disappointing even if it isn't a dealbreaker for me.
Generally I think 30fps feels a bit more acceptable when a game is doing something exceptional, like TotK has a more interactive world and better physics than most games on much more powerful hardware, or Starfield has a massive world while probably still doing that Bethesda thing where you can drop an item then come back 200 hours later and it's still there.
But if all you are bringing is better graphics attached to the same 15 years old game design then I'm probably going to wait for a sale. I don't care how amazing that Ubisoft Avatar game looks, if it's 30fps and just plays like every other Far Cry from the last 10 years then the 30fps aren't worth it IMO.
Also I don't agree with the premise of the OP that we shouldn't raise our expectations or embrace new standards because "we still enjoyed games running below this standard before".
I loved Ocarina of Time back then, I'd never buy a game running at locked 20fps now
I loved Shadow of the Colossus back then, I'd never buy a game that runs fights at 15-20fps now.
Generally I think 30fps feels a bit more acceptable when a game is doing something exceptional, like TotK has a more interactive world and better physics than most games on much more powerful hardware, or Starfield has a massive world while probably still doing that Bethesda thing where you can drop an item then come back 200 hours later and it's still there.
But if all you are bringing is better graphics attached to the same 15 years old game design then I'm probably going to wait for a sale. I don't care how amazing that Ubisoft Avatar game looks, if it's 30fps and just plays like every other Far Cry from the last 10 years then the 30fps aren't worth it IMO.
Also I don't agree with the premise of the OP that we shouldn't raise our expectations or embrace new standards because "we still enjoyed games running below this standard before".
I loved Ocarina of Time back then, I'd never buy a game running at locked 20fps now
I loved Shadow of the Colossus back then, I'd never buy a game that runs fights at 15-20fps now.
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Giallo Corsa
Gold Member
So, people "don't know what FPS is" = people are ignorant = framerate doesn't matter and you're right = validates your bias).
Do I have that right ?
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Shh
Member
Most people that play video games know what framerate is, or at the very least, understand the concept of their game lagging. Lagging is annoying to anyone that plays video games. The fact that 99.99% of the people that don't play games have any idea about framerate is completely irrelevant.
oldergamer
Member
The matrix reloaded demo too. Looks great and was 30fps.
Shh
Member
There's a difference between sustained 30fps and max 30 fps where it can dip below and look like trash.
nkarafo
Member
60fps is absolutely necessary for the vast majority of games.
If you're not a static screens point & click adventure, 30fps is totally limiting. And even there, 60fps makes the pointer smoother and more responsive so...
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
As in money? I’ve been doing this for several years now, upgrading different parts at times as needed. Selling older hardware pay towards new hardware.
Back when I was on consoles, I used to buy all three, so if anything I’m saving money.
01011001
Banned
HDMI 2.0 is now also called HDMI 2.1 btw, so always be aware of that.
cable specs are not advertised through HDMI version numbers, but through multiple different naming schemes.
the fastest is Ultra High Speed, which can do 4k120hz and 8k60hz.
but yes it seems to support 4k120hz.
while I don't speak dutch, as a german I think I can deduce that that's a fiber optic cable (I assume Glasvezel means the same as Glasfaser)
does VRR work with fiber optic cables? also, are there any issues with power delivery?
I never used a fiber optic HDMI, all I know is that you shouldn't bend them more than absolutely necessary as to not break the fibers inside.
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Trogdor1123
Member
Not familiar with playnite. Any info you can share?
SteelCurtain 59
Member
I remember I was once playing a game and it was the best game of all time, but then it dropped to 59 FPS for a second and I was furious, instantly uninstalled and gave it 1 star, sometimes I just stare at a black screen that's at 240fps and it's amazing, why play games when you can play framerate?
nkarafo
Member
Is that what the 59 in your nick represents? Man, that must have been a traumatic experience.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Show us you playing a game at 0 fps.
93xfan
Banned
Not necessarily. Some games aren’t as simple as a downscaled res and may be pushing other bottlenecks such as the CPU or RAM.
Starfield is quite ambitious, and if focusing only on 30FPS is the better way to use their time, then so be it.
Honestly, I’ll bet a lot of this is about how shitty 30FPS looks on most modern Displays. My jaw dropped when I first saw Forza Horizon 4 on a 4K TV zag 30FPS in a Microsoft store. It honestly made me ask what was wrong with the TV settings to the store clerk.
I game on a 1080p plasma, and if I didn’t, I might join you all in your disgust of 30FPS.
Apocryphon
Member
Starfield thread? 
It depends on the game, but I don’t trust Bethesda enough for the combat not to feel like shit.
I would rather see more 1440/1620/1800p40 options than just have 4K30p. The Steam Deck has proven than 40fps is meaningfully more fluid than 30, and many new TVs support 120fps content.
For first party studios especially, including a 40fps mode should be mandatory if the game isn’t going to support 60fps.
It depends on the game, but I don’t trust Bethesda enough for the combat not to feel like shit.
I would rather see more 1440/1620/1800p40 options than just have 4K30p. The Steam Deck has proven than 40fps is meaningfully more fluid than 30, and many new TVs support 120fps content.
For first party studios especially, including a 40fps mode should be mandatory if the game isn’t going to support 60fps.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Of all the things to be concerned about when it comes to games, the frame rate is one of those at least concerned. As long as it doesn't drop below 30 frames per second, I'm all good.
All I know is Starfield looks like it's hell of a lot of fun and I'm not worried about it going to be 30 fps.
All I know is Starfield looks like it's hell of a lot of fun and I'm not worried about it going to be 30 fps.
yamaci17
Member
PS5 is bad in 2023 and 30 FPS is a bad pathetic target.
You have low expectations.
Await PS5 pro
mansoor1980
Gold Member
obligatory
Syphon Filter
Member
Cry more, people have standards and 30 fps is piss poor. You may as well settle and eat food from a garbage can instead of a home cooked meal.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Seethe and cope.
You're right about standards though - Anyone willing to sacrifice GAMEPLAY, FIDELITY and SCOPE in the name of .... input lag (lmfao)... Has no standards.
This is another game dev coming out and saying get ready for more 30fps games.
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JeloSWE
Member
Every game should be designed for 60fps ground up. Otherwise we could argue that 30 fps looks bad as we gould have gone for 20 or 15 fps. I simply draw the line at the excellent looking and feeling 60 fps, 30 fps just have terrible motion clarity and a always a minimum of terrible 34 ms input lag.