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I had a rare encounter with a racist today.

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Grow up, OP. And please don't even compare "oriental" to "nigger". One refers to where in the world people came from, a geographical location, while the other one directly refers to the skin color.

It's like someone from California would get upset for being told he's from the West Coast. Please.
 
Cagey said:
Am I the only one assuming Final Boss's post was an excellent joke, and not sincere?
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Sometimes when you play in traffic, you get hit, even if you're just trying to tell the other kids they shouldn't play in traffic.
 
ishibear said:
People so eager to use offensive words but don't wanna be called racist.

If a minority tells you something is offensive, I don't give a damn if it hurts your feelings or scares you because "I'm not racist! Don't even imply it!".

News flash, if you have the audacity to think it's okay to tell a minority when and when not to be offended, that's racist mentality and we have the right to let you know that. It's not the same as calling you racist, but if you jump to that and start shoving your privilege in our faces, you just might be that big scary R word.

You don't want to be offended, don't offend others. It's that simple.
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Pow.
 
Herr K said:
Grow up, OP. And please don't even compare "oriental" to "nigger". One refers to where in the world people came from, a geographical location, while the other one directly refers to the skin color.

It's like someone from California would get upset for being told he's from the West Coast. Please.
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The roommate's father was clearly using it as a descriptor of the OP's race because she told him exactly where she came from.
 
freeofgreed said:
So a word by word transcript of what happened is meaningless (OP Joked around a lot but you still get the jist of it). Also I fail to see how someone speaking out against ignorance also makes her ignorant. The guy was arguing with her well before she even said he was acting like a racist.
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where is this word-by-word conversation? I skimmed through the thread and I just found a part where all that section it's paraphrased in "Yada yada yadas".

and I didn't call HER ignorant, I said "an ignorant people" referring to the guy.

Gucci Messiah said:
Did I say what you bolded was fact or did I use the word 'usually' in this instance? It's crazy that you're still sitting here claiming this wasn't a racial issue and that the OP was wrong for calling the guy a racist, which didn't even happen.

There's a difference between being genuinely interested in another persons heritage so you can learn about a culture you're unfamiliar with and trying to dig up what ethnicity a person is so you can attempt to make them feel like they don't belong or go on a tirade about 'orientals.' I think it's obvious based off of the information we have that the guy is an insensitive jerk who refused to check his white privilege at the door. Normal people apologize and move on with the conversation in that situation, the OP even initially said it wasn't a big deal. But what did the guy do instead? He tried to tell her what she could and could not be offended by, attempted to validate his racism through google, and then fell back on the 'well I grew up using that word so it's fine' excuse. Does that not sound like a racist to you? In my experience, people like this usually hold some backwards views on race.
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you said "here are the facts" at the start of your post... and those weren't facts, I was just pointing that out.

and I didn't say she was wrong... I said that it was a very strong thing to say and she was causing confrontation. I understand she was pissed, but I still think that she could avoided that and ended the conversation in a smarter way.

and I insist, for the situation, I understand that he wasn't being intentionally racist, he just handled the situation with poor social skills, in a very stubborn and asshole way. I totally agree with you, he should have apologized, but he didn't... but again, she could've deal with that in a smarter way, instead of going for the "that's a thing a racist person would say"... that's a response looking for confrontation.

the guy is the worse here, I totally agree with that, but I don't think it was racist, it was a lot of ignorance and poor social skills.
 
Herr K said:
Grow up, OP. And please don't even compare "oriental" to "nigger". One refers to where in the world people came from, a geographical location, while the other one directly refers to the skin color.

It's like someone from California would get upset for being told he's from the West Coast. Please.
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She's not from the Philippines. She's from Illinois/Michigan.
 
backslashbunny said:
Oriental refers to the time when Asians were barred from entering the United States, because there were "too many" of them.

It also refers to the abuse they suffered building the railroad.
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I think this explanation would go over better if you replaced "refers to" with something more along the lines of "is associated with". It quite literally refers to originating from a particular region, and that is a hang-up for many in understanding why oriental is often considered offensive.
 
Herr K said:
Grow up, OP. And please don't even compare "oriental" to "nigger". One refers to where in the world people came from, a geographical location, while the other one directly refers to the skin color.

It's like someone from California would get upset for being told he's from the West Coast. Please.
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"Jap", "chinaman", "mongoloid", "paki" (and others) refer to where in the world people came from. They can still be considered offensive terms. The level of severity might not be the same, but that's beside the point.
 
I'm not going to argue that the man was not a racist because I totally accept the fact that as the encounter occurred there may have been other unreported factors that led the OP to believe the man was a racist. That said, based solely on what the OP wrote, I do not think it is possible to determine if he is in fact a racist or just an old stubborn a-hole.

I do not personally find 'Oriental' comparable to 'nigger' but rather 'negro'; that is to say, it is an old-fashioned term that some take offense to, others do not, and is used by both racists and non-racists alike. I would certainly say it is far more benign than 'nigger' or 'puti', for example.
 
zruben said:
where is this word-by-word conversation? I skimmed through the thread and I just found a part where all that section it's paraphrased in "Yada yada yadas".

and I didn't call HER ignorant, I said "an ignorant people" referring to the guy.



you said "here are the facts" at the start of your post... and those weren't facts, I was just pointing that out.

and I didn't say she was wrong... I said that it was a very strong thing to say and she was causing confrontation. I understand she was pissed, but I still think that she could avoided that and ended the conversation in a smarter way.

and I insist, for the situation, I understand that he wasn't being intentionally racist, he just handled the situation with poor social skills, in a very stubborn and asshole way. I totally agree with you, he should have apologized, but he didn't... but again, she could've deal with that in a smarter way, instead of going for the "that's a thing a racist person would say"... that's a response looking for confrontation.

the guy is the worse here, I totally agree with that, but I don't think it was racist, it was a lot of ignorance and poor social skills.
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Enough with the semantics, everyone else seemed to know what I was talking about. And yes, you did say she was wrong:

zruben said:
But both parties were trying stubbornly to "win the argument", and that bit of "that's the excuse racists use" was just looking for trouble.
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In what world is this not putting blame on the victim here? How is that not saying that the OP was wrong in this situation? The OP didn't cause a confrontation, the guy did when he refused to acknowledge that 'oriental' was offensive to the OP and tried to tell her what words she could and could not get upset about. HE escalated the situation by trying to validate his casual racism and white privilege through a google search and when that failed, he brushed off her concerns with the 'well I grew up using the word' excuse. Only then did the OP inform this jerk that racist people tend to use the same tactics, which is 100% the truth. Not sure why you're trying to equally assign guilt or make it seem like the OP is in the wrong here for standing up for herself. She dealt with the situation way better than I would have handled it, I can tell you that much.
 
This is the first I've heard that oriental is offensive. I don't use the word personally but I have heard it used around asians with no apparent offense. I'm not from the UK or the states but I have literally never heard anyone being offended by the term oriental . From reading the posts in this thread I really do think it is just in america. Although The OP has every right to be offended of course and was right to ask him to stop using the word, I don't think she should have inferred he is a racist.
 
The "exotic" thread was already hard enough, and I see some of the same avatars trying to just get a minor amount of respect for their culture and feelings.

ishibear said:
People so eager to use offensive words but don't wanna be called racist.

If a minority tells you something is offensive, I don't give a damn if it hurts your feelings or scares you because "I'm not racist! Don't even imply it!".

News flash, if you have the audacity to think it's okay to tell a minority when and when not to be offended, that's racist mentality and we have the right to let you know that. It's not the same as calling you racist, but if you jump to that and start shoving your privilege in our faces, you just might be that big scary R word.

You don't want to be offended, don't offend others. It's that simple.
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Well said!
 
Final Boss said:
SMH @ everyone quick to call others racist. My friends and I say "nigger" all the time, but we don't mean in it a racist way, it's just another way of calling someone stupid, like "what a nigger haha" if a friend trips and falls. Doesn't make us racist
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motherfucking final boss....


I don't see how that could have been a joke, and I try to hide jokes in things all the time. Could someone explain this to me? What did you see he did thar?
 
ishibear said:
People so eager to use offensive words but don't wanna be called racist.

If a minority tells you something is offensive, I don't give a damn if it hurts your feelings or scares you because "I'm not racist! Don't even imply it!".

News flash, if you have the audacity to think it's okay to tell a minority when and when not to be offended, that's racist mentality and we have the right to let you know that. It's not the same as calling you racist, but if you jump to that and start shoving your privilege in our faces, you just might be that big scary R word.

You don't want to be offended, don't offend others. It's that simple.
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+1000
As is often the case, it's less about his first use of the word "Oriental" but more all the shit that happened afterwards that is so damned offensive and assholish.
 
Oriental is a geographical term, I've never really understood how it can be construed as racist. I grew up saying Asian and I've never called anyone oriental, but what exactly is offensive about it? Is it simply seen as racist because racists are the people that used to say it? I'm actually asking, because it doesn't make sense to me. Asian is pretty broad, and is actually rather vague to use to mean east Asian, and means west Asian in the UK from what I can tell.
 
wsippel said:
Right, but you wrote: "It's been pointed out that Oriental has referred to the Middle East, then South Asia, then finally East Asia as shit got less mysterious for Europeans."

See what I mean? Blaming Europe for the lazy term or racist undertones when we don't even share the same definition makes little sense is what I'm saying.
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lttp but I totally agree, it makes little sense to blame Europe for the racist undertones of the word in America. That is why I'm not blaming Europe for anything.

It's just how the word came about, and one of the reasons why someone can take offense to it - it doesn't particularly mean anything specific about actual geographic location, it was just a handy go-to for Europeans/Westerners to describe "those other guys who aren't from Europe and never will be".

Is it Europe's fault that the word is seen as offensive in America given the historical struggle of Asian Americans to be seen as not foreigners?

Hell no. But just because the connotations in Europe don't go that far doesn't mean in America the same should apply, given its history.
 
akira28 said:
motherfucking final boss....


I don't see how that could have been a joke, and I try to hide jokes in things all the time. Could someone explain this to me? What did you see he did thar?
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No idea who the poster is, but the post itself was so over-the-top that it came across to me as parody.
 
Rest said:
Oriental is a geographical term, I've never really understood how it can be construed as racist. I grew up saying Asian and I've never called anyone oriental, but what exactly is offensive about it? Is it simply seen as racist because racists are the people that used to say it? I'm actually asking, because it doesn't make sense to me. Asian is pretty broad, and is actually rather vague to use to mean east Asian, and means west Asian in the UK from what I can tell.
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Orient(al) is pretty vague, too, it's not just for east Asia, but anything east of Europe like also including Middle East.
 
Rest said:
Oriental is a geographical term, I've never really understood how it can be construed as racist.
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Paki is a geographic term. Jap is a geographic term. Negro just means black if you strip away all the history and weight from it. Oriental is a geographic term that also happens to have a context in America (read the thread for more details) that you should now be familiar with.

Rest said:
Is it simply seen as racist because racists are the people that used to say it?
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I think a lot of offensive words can lay claim to the same. And it isn't just 'used to say', it continues to this very day.
 
jacksnap said:
Was the OP stubborn for pressing that the word was hurtful, after being told that it wasn't?
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Mmm. Some people know, some people don't. It seems from reading this thread people are offended by certain words that others didn't even know are considered offensive.

Pinko Marx said:
Would you say it around people you don't know? Probably not.
Just because you grew up hearing it does not make it okay. That is a terrible word with a lot of history behind it. It should not be thrown around casually. Please stop.
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True but I think that's missing the point. Around friends, you have a level of understanding where you aren't offended. Asking "would you say that around people you don't know" is almost pointless to even bring up, because the answer is obviously no. You wouldn't because you don't have the level of understanding you do with your friends. This thread is a perfect example of that. Final Boss can say offensive terms amongst his friends but as soon as you step out of your inner circle and say it out loud, you get "the response" or in his case, banned.

backslashbunny said:
So it's not racist in your culture, I suppose, which makes it alright.
/s
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Well there's a difference. Even I said something "offensive" yet where I'm from, it's not. If someone told me that they were offended by that word, then sure, I'll stop using it. The Dad going out of his way though to correct you from is pretty ...odd.
 
ISOM said:
Man you're back after making that lying thread about have a girlfriend of 5 years? News flash you lying idiot. If you use the n-word especially like that, you are being offensive and racist.

Edit:Final Boss was banned. He was finally defeated....again. *tear drops*
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Wut?

Can you post a link to that thread? I only remember the name cos I think he said he was a model and was sick and tired of girls only wanting him for his looks.
 
I know someone like this as well. I have a friend that believes (he's as white as you can get), the N word and the F word (gays) are either non-offensive, or believe they shouldn't be considered offensive words. For the F word, he will always bring up the original definition of it to say that is what he means, and not by the insulting word for gays. Or when he uses the N-word, he uses it for ignorant people...
 
SolidSnakeUS said:
I know someone like this as well. I have a friend that believes (he's as white as you can get), the N word and the F word (gays) are either non-offensive, or believe they shouldn't be considered offensive words. For the F word, he will always bring up the original definition of it to say that is what he means, and not by the insulting word for gays. Or when he uses the N-word, he uses it for ignorant people...
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Yikes. Reminds me of "everyone wants to be black, but they don't want to be black." Does he ever say it in front of black or gay people?
 
SolidSnakeUS said:
I know someone like this as well. I have a friend that believes (he's as white as you can get), the N word and the F word (gays) are either non-offensive, or believe they shouldn't be considered offensive words. For the F word, he will always bring up the original definition of it to say that is what he means, and not by the insulting word for gays. Or when he uses the N-word, he uses it for ignorant people...
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and you hang out with this guy?
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Yikes. Reminds me of "everyone wants to be black, but they don't want to be black." Does he ever say it in front of black or gay people?
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He said it in ear shot of a black guy once. Yeah... didn't turn out too well lol.

Do Better said:
and you hang out with this guy?
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Sometimes, but I know he's trying not to. For some reason, I just tune that shit out for the most part with him, probably because I know he's harmless. I know, ignorance in my doing, but I do still tell him I don't like it and keep reminding him about not saying it.
 
Final Boss said:
It's just something we all grew up heard using, we don't go around calling black people niggers but if we see someone do something stupid we call them a nigger, regardless of the race. That's why we aren't racists
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You're a terrible troll. Hope that L you got served tastes good.
 
I'm Asian and do not find oriental offensive but I admit I have no understanding of the word or the historical usage of the word.
 
Gucci Messiah said:
They aren't cards, you have come into this thread and said some straight up ignorant things that multiple people have corrected you on. You have also been asking for literature on the subject and help from posters to better understand nomenclature and historical context. When somebody explains these things, they are educating you.

And yes, there is a right and a wrong to this discussion. It's okay to unknowingly say something offensive and then change your stance after being called out on it. What isn't okay is victim blaming or using excuses like 'I grew up with the word' or 'I have _____ friends' to de-legitimize the feelings of others.
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We're having a discussion. If you want to play a game of who's right and who's wrong then go ahead, I won't have a part of it. It's about discussing the issue and understanding.



Gucci Messiah said:
Are you kidding me? No seriously, have you never taken a AP history course in high school or a general education class in college? No shit 'Orient' and 'Oriental' have been around before 'modern' imperialism (Yes, the Romans did engage in imperialism) but that isn't the point here. I'm speaking specifically about the word in relation to the subjugation of people, land resources, and culture in Asia by Europeans. Want some literature on the subject? Start here.
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Please don't do casual insults. We're discussing a topic, not my schooling.

Was the word "oriental" used inappropriately during the subjugation and conquest of lands? Or was it a descriptor of the lands and people?

Gucci Messiah said:
Just because the term was started by the Roman Empire, which stretched into Babylon (modern day Iraq), known today as Asia, or THE MIDDLE EAST, doesn't make the term 'meaningless.' Seriously, what kind of logic is that? I've already explained multiple times how using the term oriental can hearken back to the days of imperialism and the negative connotations that has for a lot of people.
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When you use a specific time in history that may or may not have used the word to subjugate, then yeah, it is meaningless. It's a historical word so we have to understand why it was created and if there are big instances of it being abused.




Gucci Messiah said:
People generally don't get upset over being called something for no reason at all, usually a word is used in a derogatory manner, has historical context, or is antiquated and considered rude. If somebody came up to me and called me 'exotic' because of my dark skin and curly hair, I'd be annoyed and correct them. You know why? Because it makes me feel like an object or an animal, and that is dehumanizing. It's wrong to place blame on the victims and tell them to do research on words before getting offended. The bottom line is that if I say something and somebody says 'Hey Gucci, I think that's offensive, can you not use that term?' my reaction is to apologize and not do it again in their presence. That's what rational people do, not get on google to try and tell somebody what they can and cannot be offended by.
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I proposed a question in the exotic thread to people who would apologize to people being offended. Does this stretch to all instances of "offense". If I told you I was legit offended by your post would you not say anything similar in my presence again? We all draw lines where we find things to be an over reaction. Is oriental an over reaction? It doesn't seem we will find that answer in this thread.

Gucci Messiah said:
To answer the other part of your question, I don't think you know what subjugate means. Europeans used force to conquer indigenous people, keep the population under control, and deprive the country of resources. They were technologically superior in the art of warfare, that was the big difference. I have already described how the term oriental was originally used so go back and read that again. No, it was not used as a slur, yes, it evokes unpleasant feeling based on historical context and can be considered offensive.
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Europeans also conquered and subjugated other Europeans. Europe is a hotbed of conquering. Why does evoke historical unpleasant feelings? If it wasn't used as a slur then it has to be another reason (I'm going off by what you write).





Gucci Messiah said:
If you can't see why believing that every person, regardless of color is equal, I don't know what to say.
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You are not understanding correctly. Do you believe all people are on the same level? Wealth, religion, skin color, etc. offer social benefits that make people less not in the sense that they cannot enter a building without being in irons but that there's systematic racism and what not that creates an issue where certain skin colors are vastly more privileged than others.
 
Sketchbag said:
Was the word "oriental" used inappropriately during the subjugation and conquest of lands? Or was it a descriptor of the lands and people?



When you use a specific time in history that may or may not have used the word to subjugate, then yeah, it is meaningless. It's a historical word so we have to understand why it was created and if there are big instances of it being abused.
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Just read the summary of this, one of the cornerstones of modern racial, colonialist, political thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)
 
Cagey said:
No idea who the poster is, but the post itself was so over-the-top that it came across to me as parody.
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I know people like this though. Who think like this. Who have said this exact thing. I mean, on GAF it would be a bad idea to just out yourself like that if you didn't know better. But in real life, there are people who think like this everywhere.
 
Sketchbag said:
Snip.
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Ah, so now you're going to deflect from your ignorance and say I'm 'insulting' you. I've wasted enough time holding your hand and explaining concepts most people seem to understand. Do yourself a favor and hire a professor to teach you because I'm done writing out these long posts only to have you moan and run in circles. Adding you to my ignore list, should have done it after the black guy recording the police thread.
 
I didn't know that 'oriental' was an offensive term for quite a long while. Good thing I learned before I made a fool of myself.

Anyway, I guess it's the same way I feel when caucasians refer to non-caucasians as "people of colour". It's such an "us" and "the rest of them" description.
 
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