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I had a rare encounter with a racist today.

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Being asian (Chinese) myself, I am not sure if I'd feel offended if I was referred to as oriental - but that may be cause i've never seen or heard oriental used in a context that was offensive. Ever. Hell, it's more syllables just to say it constantly.

I believe most offensive would be gook or chink - that shit would rile me up.
 
Why would that be a sensitive topic? Honest question because I really don't see it.

Because it's something that minorities get reminded of all the time. Because for Asian-Americans it's a way to fuel the perception that they'll always be foreigners.

There are people whose families have been in the US for generations. There are people who have zero cultural ties to their race. Why do you want to press them on it?
 
"Oriental" it's an adjective describing ethnicity. I'm still puzzled as why it is offensive.
So is 'negro'. So is 'coloured people'. But when a a better more inclusive term comes in that replaces it the older more exclusionary term becomes less acceptable as it's tied to the era where it was more widely used which were pretty damn racist.

Basically any term that smacks of "You're not really from here" or "You're not from around here are you?" "You're different" is incredibly problematic when applied to people.
 
So is 'negro'. So is 'coloured people'. But when a a better more inclusive term comes in that replaces it the older more exclusionary term becomes less acceptable as it's tied to the era where it was more widely used which were pretty damn racist.

Basically any term that smacks of "You're not really from here" or "You're not from around here are you?" "You're different" is incredibly problematic when applied to people.

Oriental is used to describe peoples in the East.

Colored and "negro" exist to differentiate and to declare a person lesser.

The are completely different.
 
Why aren't people calling themselves Occidental?

Because history favors the white? We didn't need to have "Occidental Studies" as these weren't called that in Asian countries (or some may have, I don't know). We called the Oriental, they probably had a name for the West. We now use Asian Studies instead so we can get more technical (because we can make more subjects).

We call ourselves North Americans, generally or South Americans. It's just labels the region. It encompasses those in it: South American cultures. Nothing wrong with it.

The issue is whether "oriental" has the same history as other words that are harmful like "negro". All signs point to generally no since, aside from European conquest into Asia, there is nothing there that suggests it was used to make people feel lesser. The biggest gripe is, from what I've read, that Asians didn't choose the name but they did have a hand in the word Asian (as noted in the UK by universities wanting to change it from Oriental to Asian due to increasing Asian populations). However, here's my point I've been asking in the thread: is there a difference between the words Asian and Oriental? Both are essentially the same words except that Asian encompasses less countries. There's even backlash from some Asians wanting to be labeled by their country IE Canadian or American (even evident in NeoGAF threads who don't like the compliment 'exotic').
 
Colored and "negro" exist to differentiate and to declare a person lesser.
Coloured people was a dignified term back when the NAACP was created. It isn't any longer.

Seems like oriental should have the same fate to me. It's a term made obsolete by, you know, the ACTUAL ETHNICITY of people (Japanese, Philipino, Vietnamese etc.), and 'Asian-American' and is a relic of a more racist time. I mean good lord dumping people of such different backgrounds and origins under one absurdly generic term really feels like "They're all the same anyway".
 
Coloured people was a dignified term back when the NAACP was created. It isn't any longer.

Seems like oriental should have the same fate to me.

Well, the NAACP also didn't care for the word "African-American" as well. Black people have a more complicated history in America. Comparing it to oriental which is historical region word is odd.

Wouldn't it be similar to "cunt"?
 

I didn't say "parroted" in a pejorative way, it was just a way to say that I'm aware that it was posted several times by several different people.

I apologize to anyone that found that offensive.

It hurts some of us and makes us feel weird and otherized. Why do you need more than this?

Well, yeah, I can get that, I was just looking for a reasonable explanation. If this is it, I'll just stop pressing the issue.
 
Well, the NAACP also didn't care for the word "African-American" as well. Black people have a more complicated history in America. Comparing it to oriental which is historical region word is odd.

Wouldn't it be similar to "cunt"?


Reposting as you might have missed the edit. Oriental is just like 'coloured people' and 'negro' most definitely a term made obsolete. It's been made obsolete by, you know, the ACTUAL ETHNICITY of people (Japanese, Philipino, Vietnamese etc.), and 'Asian-American'. It is a relic of a more racist time. I mean good lord dumping people of such different backgrounds and origins under one absurdly generic term really feels like "They're all the same slanty eyed people anyway".
 
Reposting as you might have missed the edit. Oriental is just like 'coloured people' and 'negro' most definitely a term made obsolete. It's been made obsolete by, you know, the ACTUAL ETHNICITY of people (Japanese, Philipino, Vietnamese etc.), and 'Asian-American'. It is a relic of a more racist time. I mean good lord dumping people of such different backgrounds and origins under one absurdly generic term really feels like "They're all the same slanty eyed people anyway".

How was it a racist term? It means the East. It's the same as "North America" and what not. It designates a region, it just doesn't use our fancy map words.

It's not similar to colored. Colored was a way to segregate and lessen Black people in America. Oriental was a way to designate a region and every thing it encompasses. It wasn't design with malice in mind like colored or "negro".
 
How was it a racist term? It means the East. It's the same as "North America" and what not. It designates a region, it just doesn't use our fancy map words.

It's not similar to colored. Colored was a way to segregate and lessen Black people in America. Oriental was a way to designate a region and every thing it encompasses. It wasn't design with malice in mind like colored or "negro".

It's not racist,it's ignorant and some people don't like it.

People ITT saying it's racist are overreacting.
 
If you don't know why Oriental is "bad," read the thread. Many people, including myself, have posted for everyone the times when these words were used-- and they are most definitely negative. (Chinese Exclusion Act, the treatment of Asians during the Railroad, and the perpetual foreigner syndrome.)

no. I will never. and you can't make me. in fact I dare you to make me. I don't get it and I don't want to get it.


it hurts to know bunbun ignores my posts. but I'm a big boy. I can deal.
 
I guess I'm on the side that doesn't find it racist (I'm Asian myself). To me, it's just an old school term, still socially acceptable but I understand why people get offended.

It may be different for me, maybe I'm just weird. I think if they were talking to me, I couldn't take it serious or find it offensive if I tried if I were called or labeled as a "gook" or "chink." I'd honestly think that they're 'joking' with me trying to test me; haven't had that happen (yet). However, if someone were to refer to me as 'Chinese,' I'd be a little bothered. I find anyone calling any Asians 'Chinese' pretty ignorant.

Oh god, he's one of those assholes. People who jump to this argument are always insanely frustrating to interact with. Sorry you had to deal with that, OP.
[Sort of rant] Yeah, I have a friend who is like that too. When in any kind of debate or argument (or when trying to make a point), he likes to pull the "whip out the internet and find facts to use against you" bullshit, just to convince himself that he's "right." On, top of that, he always comes off as condescending. Like c'mon friend, you missed the whole point and in the end, you just showed me how narrow-minded you are. [/Sort of rant]

That's the thing about this issue, there are people out there who aren't mindful enough to understand why others find certain things a problem. You don't have to understand why some people find it offensive, just be mindful that some people find it offensive.
 
How was it a racist term? It means the East. It's the same as "North America" and what not. It designates a region, it just doesn't use our fancy map words.

It's not similar to colored. Colored was a way to segregate and lessen Black people in America. Oriental was a way to designate a region and every thing it encompasses. It wasn't design with malice in mind like colored or "negro".

Negro and Oriental are essentially one in the same. Used as descriptors back in the day. That doesn't mean they're completely harmless and should be used to describe any person of East Asian or African origin though. Both terms aren't racist per se, but are ignorant of the changed times within our world today. Sorta why people wont be too pleased with you in most cases if you use that term to describe them.
 
Negro and Oriental are essentially one in the same. Used as descriptors back in the day. That doesn't mean they're completely harmless and should be used to describe any person of East Asian or African origin though. Both terms aren't racist per se, but are ignorant of the changed times within our world today. Sorta why people wont be too pleased with you in most cases if you use that term to describe them.

Negro is not the same as oriental. The differences behind the words are leagues apart. How are the similar historically? Can you provide sources for this?
 
Asian is fine. Or asian american. Etc.

Colored is generally offensive. What is the threshold for colored? How much melanin? It is not a fact. It is a term used to single out 'white' people vs everyone else.


Ok so you just don't care what people feel. No point in discussing then.
People say they find something offensive, then you say I don't care what they find offensive. OK then. This is a great way to make progress in society.




Differences are not wrong, but you do know stereotypes don't apply to individuals right? So when you use a term loaded with baggage and describe an individual with it, it could be offensive. Oriental is a term that defines the person using those PERCEIVED differences, not actual ones pertaining to the individual. If you call an Asian American oriental, you are saying from the start you are not one of US. It is a term to exclude. It doesn't celebrate differences, it uses them to exclude.

Is the bolded in reference to me because I never said I dont care about how other people feel.

I see what you mean, when it comes to term coloured, for example somone with a deep tan may take offence to that term.

I find myself in situations where I'am describing somone where the color of there skin is a describing factor and I do not know what is the correct term to use. for example I was decribing this woman i forgot the name of, I think she was of african decent but I dont know, and I refered to her as colored, What would be the correct term to use in that circumstance and what if you dont know the country of origin of the person?

How can one tell the difference between a Korean and a Chinese person or a Pakistani or African american person?
 
I'm sure anyone who occupies the spectrum between white and black will back me up on this: Racist people often feel the need to identify your racial background if it's not immediately obvious.

"So uhhh, where are you from?"

"Chicago and Detroit."

"Oh... Where were you born/your parents from?" or "Where are you REALLY from?"

Europeans ask me the damn damned thing when I tell them I'm from Kentucky. The only difference is I don't immediately become offended by their interest in my ethnic history. I'm quite white.

Terribly sorry for actively engaging in getting to know you, though.
 
Europeans ask me the damn damned thing when I tell them I'm from Kentucky. The only difference is I don't immediately become offended by their interest in my ethnic history. I'm quite white.

Terribly sorry for actively engaging in getting to know you, though.

Can you really not tell the difference? Come on...
 
Think of "oriental" as similar to "colored" if you're having trouble fathoming how it's offensive.

It's quaintly racist, not bludgeoningly so, but then the roommate's dad's following behavior drove the nail in the coffin.

I disagree. Oriental literally means "from East Asia", it can be applied to a person, but also to an object. It's not that much different from European or American in my view and it certainly doesn't say anything about a person's skin or race, like "colored" does.

If someone complains they find it offensive, it'd be a good idea to stop using it, but I certainly understand how the dad called bullshit when it was compared to "nigger". They are worlds apart.
 
Europeans ask me the damn damned thing when I tell them I'm from Kentucky. The only difference is I don't immediately become offended by their interest in my ethnic history. I'm quite white.

Not sure if serious.

I cannot recall ever having had a white friend asked what their ethnic makeup is outside of a conversation where it is contextually relevant. Whereas I've had to answer that question probably 1,000 times.

I guess you totally know though since it happened to you that one time...
 
Guess I can freewheel and use the words paki and jap since it's only a convenient shortening of the geographic description of where a person is from. If a dude is from China and a man, I guess chinaman works too. Hey it's just what the word means, not my fault if people get offended.

Are people being willfully obtuse about the whole "words mean more than just their definition" and they might carry significant cultural or social baggage?
 
Late to the party here but I'm very surprised how many people had no idea "oriental" is considered offensive!

Which is fine if you learn that and then rethink your knowledge/use of the word. Don't double down on it like the Dad in the story though guys. Doubling down when someone tells you anything pertaining to race/gender/etc offends them is pretty much never a good idea.
 
Europeans ask me the damn damned thing when I tell them I'm from Kentucky. The only difference is I don't immediately become offended by their interest in my ethnic history. I'm quite white.

Terribly sorry for actively engaging in getting to know you, though.

This has to be a joke post. Seriously, you have to realize this is not the same.

Negro is not the same as oriental. The differences behind the words are leagues apart. How are the similar historically? Can you provide sources for this?

Ah, I see you're still stating your opinion as fact, and then when somebody corrects you, running back to the disingenuous 'pls teach me, i don't get it' and 'give me sources to back up what you're saying even though this has been explained in the thread already' excuses. It's amazing to me that you are incapable of comprehending what people post, processing the information, seeking out literature on the subject, and then forming a rational response. Stop demanding that people write you an essay or provide citations, it's just a lazy stalling tactic you try to use to discredit other posters.

Christ.
 
Negro is not the same as oriental. The differences behind the words are leagues apart. How are the similar historically? Can you provide sources for this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)

This is the source. This is the source of so much of modern ethno-political thought. I know you can't read it all. I haven't read it all and I've been assigned it twice. It's a fucking tome but it describes in detail what you ask.

Just read the summary. It's one of the required 20th century texts for understanding the modern world.


Also, Negro was the polite word for Nigger back then.

"Negro" superseded "colored" as the most polite terminology, at a time when "black" was more offensive.[3] This usage was accepted as normal, even by people classified as Negroes, until the later Civil Rights movement in the late 1960s. One well-known example is the identification by Martin Luther King, Jr. of his own race as "Negro" in his famous 1963 speech I Have a Dream.

You have the polite word for Nigger and the polite word for Gook, Chink, etc vs eachother. I'm not sure how you are going to prove one worse than the othe (or why you would want to) but I would love to see you try.
 
I disagree. Oriental literally means "from East Asia", it can be applied to a person, but also to an object. It's not that much different from European or American in my view and it certainly doesn't say anything about a person's skin or race, like "colored" does.

If someone complains they find it offensive, it'd be a good idea to stop using it, but I certainly understand how the dad called bullshit when it was compared to "nigger". They are worlds apart.

"colored" means colored, as in having color. It's not inherently about race either unless there was a new race delineated yesterday

application is key
 
Nigger is a noun in the English language. The word originated as a neutral term referring to black people, as a variation of the Spanish/Portuguese noun negro, a descendant of the Latin adjective niger ("color black").[1

An alternative word for African Americans was the English word, "Black", used by Thomas Jefferson in his Notes on the State of Virginia. Among Anglophones, the word nigger was not always considered derogatory, because it then denoted "black-skinned", a common Anglophone usage.[4] Nineteenth-century English (language) literature features usages of nigger without racist connotation, e.g. the Joseph Conrad novella The Nigger of the 'Narcissus' (1897). Moreover, Charles Dickens and Mark Twain created characters who used the word as contemporary usageAs recently as the 1950s, it may have been acceptable British usage to say niggers when referring to black people, notable in mainstream usages such as Nigger Boy–brand[citation needed] candy cigarettes, and the color nigger brown or simply nigger (dark brown)

Some examples of how other languages refer to a black person in a neutral and in a pejorative way:

Dutch: neger is neutral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger


Everyone cool it. I found the secret history of the word and only the origins of words matter. It was all just a big misunderstanding. Black people, chill out. White people, it's ok.
 
Also in Oregon.

The reason why they'd make it a law is because... well, just look at the mindset of this thread. A lot of people here STILL insist on wallowing in their whole "but I don't think it is, and I'm going to ignore all the reasons why, because there."

Just look at the guy below me.



& I'm still puzzled how people can recognize why "colored" is an offensive way to refer to black people/minorities, but not understand why "Oriental" still holds loaded history in United States, despite the fact that the history has been explained in this thread.

Is the US education system so bad people don't learn history, and don't even learn how to read? Or is it just a lack of empathy? Who knows...

I never knew that oriental was considered a racist and derogatory remark. But now I know, and I won't use it, although I never remember actually using it in a conversation to be honest.

Anyways, I never understand the mindset of "Well I don't think it's offensive, so you're just a pussy" when it comes to things like race.
 
I really really REALLY hope that the 'negro and oriental are WORLDS apart' argument is dead and buried in this thread at least.
 
Late to the party here but I'm very surprised how many people had no idea "oriental" is considered offensive!

Which is fine if you learn that and then rethink your knowledge/use of the word. Don't double down on it like the Dad in the story though guys. Doubling down when someone tells you anything pertaining to race/gender/etc offends them is pretty much never a good idea.

Hell I'm Asian and I didn't even know oriental was offensive. I also just took it as a region. Tbh even after knowing this, I don't really care if people use the word as long as their intent wasn't offensive. I may now simply inform them that some can find it offensive.
 
I'm black. In class a white girl asked for an eraser, which I let her borrow. She thanked me by saying "thanks homie" in an intentionally unnatural tone. How should I take that?
 
I'm black. In class a white girl asked for an eraser, which I let her borrow. She thanked me by saying "thanks homie" in an intentionally unnatural tone. How should I take that?

I hate when people do this, not realising how stupid/offensive it is. In Germany the equivalent would be “Danke, Alter“ to mock those with Turkish or Arabic background.
Of course, it's not always possible to react accordingly and often you just go with it fake-smiling, but the best would be to ask the person why they felt the need to say that in that way. Did you say anything?^^
 
I hate when people do this, not realising how stupid/offensive it is. In Germany the equivalent would be “Danke, Alter“ to mock those with Turkish or Arabic background.
Of course, it's not always possible to react accordingly and often you just go with it fake-smiling, but the best would be to ask the person why they felt the need to say that in that way. Did you say anything?^^
It was during a lecture so I just scrunched my brow and turned back to my notes.
 
Why aren't people calling themselves Occidental?
I am occidental, it's not something that's ever come up in conversation.

I'm black. In class a white girl asked for an eraser, which I let her borrow. She thanked me by saying "thanks homie" in an intentionally unnatural tone. How should I take that?
I'd take it as a fool making an ass of herself, but I don't think I'd be upset by it. But I'm also not dark enough that anybody has called me homie.
 
Wait, so homie is racist? Come on. I'm not buying that.

I'm pretty sure thats not how he meant. More in the sense of her tone using it, making it sound like "haha bc black ppls say homie llol" or something. I'm part bosnian and live in sweden and have had people do that to me my entire life.
People assume that since i'm from a "förort" and has a muslim and bosnian family they assume that they need to talk to me with some form of "slang" or they just act like dicks about it.
I'm not saying that what they are "saying" is racist, but the WAY they are saying it, going out of their way to talk to me differently, even if i speak swedish fluent, since i was born here.

It might not be something that you think about everytime, but in the long it feels really de-humanizing. And i really dislike it.
 
I hate when people do this, not realising how stupid/offensive it is. In Germany the equivalent would be “Danke, Alter“ to mock those with Turkish or Arabic background.
Of course, it's not always possible to react accordingly and often you just go with it fake-smiling, but the best would be to ask the person why they felt the need to say that in that way. Did you say anything?^^

"Danke, Alter" isn't used to mock anyone, at least not in the are where I come from. I always thought it's neutral. Or maybe I just didn't know, but if it's true every German Hip Hop artist would mock people with Turkish or Arabic background...
 
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