But BioShock Infinite does have functioning game elements. Not remarkable or unusual, but entirely functional.
Can I ask what you were expecting? Its an FPS, just like the other two BioShock games before it.
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I hope the world doesn't forget Bioshock Infinite.
- Thread starter GrizzNKev
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But BioShock Infinite does have functioning game elements. Not remarkable or unusual, but entirely functional.
Can I ask what you were expecting? Its an FPS, just like the other two BioShock games before it.
Entirely less functional than the previous game in the series, which was less functional than the one before it.
Less involved perhaps, but not less functional. The mechanics in Infinite might be stripped down compared with the previous games, but they function just fine.
Spacecowboy77
Member
GOTY 2013 for me
No way in hell I'm going to forget the experience I've had playing this
No way in hell I'm going to forget the experience I've had playing this
I think I did myself a disservice by playing the first two for the first time back to back shortly before infinite hit.
It made me enjoy the story in a really special way but the drop in gameplay quality from 2 to infinite is incredibly obvious. From the lack of ammo types to the auto potions and the reused powers it was all just such a shame. Throw in the stupid over shield and under utilized skyhook and I was just so disappointed by the end.
The story was top tier though. I will never diminish that.
It made me enjoy the story in a really special way but the drop in gameplay quality from 2 to infinite is incredibly obvious. From the lack of ammo types to the auto potions and the reused powers it was all just such a shame. Throw in the stupid over shield and under utilized skyhook and I was just so disappointed by the end.
The story was top tier though. I will never diminish that.
First Bioshock? You mean the game where you walked around in cramped areas and every enemy ran around like a headless chicken? The game where you had to switch your gun in order to use a power? The game where you had so many guns that you would spend half your time thinking about which one to use in every fight? The game where you manually had to heal yourself in small steps and could barely do so because of the enemy clusterfuck? The game where some powers just felt like gimmicky fillers?
The high pace works in Infinite because it is more aware of it's elements and level design. But ofc that's just my opinion.
This video always gets me. I really wanted to play this game. I'm surprised that there wasn't a huge downgrade cry about this game on release, considering even smaller things like lighting changes cause MASSIVE uproar. This was an entirely different game that was simplified down to a corridor shooter (with a few gimmicks).
Brerlappin
Member
Great art, poor gameplay, a tryhard 2deep4u story, and a whole load of missed opportunites pretty much sums up BI to me.
piratethingy
Self professed bad raider
I really am not usually a hater. I still love WoW. Always loved D3. (Maybe I'm just a Blizzard sucker)
The one thing I have a hard time forgiving a videogame of is not being a fun videogame. I hated Bioshock Infinite.
The one thing I have a hard time forgiving a videogame of is not being a fun videogame. I hated Bioshock Infinite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e4Crth_Hb8
I thought the music added quite a bit to the story and world. It's one of the reasons why I do still look back on the game rather fondly, but I don't think I want to play it again. The gameplay annoyed me.
I thought the music added quite a bit to the story and world. It's one of the reasons why I do still look back on the game rather fondly, but I don't think I want to play it again. The gameplay annoyed me.
lol
you're listing a lot of removed player agency in favor of "hold rt while facing front in every other room"
Messofanego
Banned
Maybe he/she is not used to shooters that give you a lot of guns to use? New Wolfenstein might be a problem
Wouldn't want to have you thinking too much while playing the game, good thing Bioshock Infinite is designed so you can walk forward holding fire and just mowing down enemies. Nothing too overly complicated for you like more than 2 weapons or manual healing.
Yeah, didn't really enjoy the game that much. The gameplay was a complete mismatch to what the game was going for storywise. Not to mention the story itself felt like it was trying way too hard to be "smart."
I think the problem was that the focus was too hell bent on being sophisticated and as a result the characterization was totally undermined for the sake of driving the plot and in the end it made characters feel like hollow plot-devices IMO.
Maybe he/she is not used to shooters that give you a lot of guns to use? New Wolfenstein might be a problem
I'm just not a fan of that design because the challenge is harder to balance. Games like Red Dead Redemption become too easy because of the excessive amount of guns the player can carry. There's no tention in movement and ammo preservation. Games like Uncharted on the other hand encourage the player to move around and search the environment during firefights, which is something I really enjoy. Bioshock also makes use of this design idea.
There are many exceptions of course, both systems can work really if they are properly balanced. But in the case of Bioshock I believe that slightly less is more. And using strategic movement and power/gun combinations is just more interesting to me than "nuking" the enemy by rapidly switching guns on an instant.
Can't say I agree. There are enough settings and upgrade options in place to tailor the difficulty to your preferred playstyle. I personally played on hard difficulty and I didn't upgrade any weapon until the end. I was in constant movement and I switched guns and made use of tears and rails all the time. That's exactly how I want to play a first person shooter.
Heh, well put.
Instead, you're nuking the enemy without even switching guns, and not having to worry about situations like scarce ammo for an extra-effective weapon.
Typed damage doesn't have to exist. More types aren't necessarily an advantage. But if your design is centered around 'no encounter should be impassible" and "no assumptions can be made about player loadout", then why pretend to include it at all? It's just sleight of hand, a false choice and a way to yank the player OUT of their involvement with the world if they ever move beyond looking at their weapon choice as a cosmetic skin.
I'm also really not sure why you're bringing up a cover shooter as an example of a game that's great at encouraging player movement in combat. Less bad than its genre mates, sure, but that's a loooooooow bar.
Edit: Actually, rereading what you said, I'm even more confused. The whole POINT of having multiple weapons is that some will work and some won't, and you need to adapt to the target and range. If your weapon/ability list is genericised to begin with before you even decide how long it is, that's an even worse and deeper issue.
Glass Rebel
Member
Maybe he/she is not used to shooters that give you a lot of guns to use? New Wolfenstein might be a problem
Oh I'm going to get some good mileage out of this picture, thanks. And I was thinking of Wolfenstein New Order too. I guess that happens when you can't play anything else for more than half an hour without wanting to return to it.
brandonh83
Banned
One of my favorite games last year and probably the best story in a game for me since Silent Hill 2. I must be completely oblivious toward the supposedly "meh" gameplay, and if that's the case, ignorance is bliss. I had a blast with it. Also appreciated the pacing; it was pretty long-ish without being too long and the art direction is second to none.
Pack it up GAF, we are finished. Someone actually just applauded the two weapon system.
Don't forget System Shock 2.
Sparrowhawk
Member
Infinite was my GOTYAY for about three days. Great style and sound, but the gameplay fell short, in my opinion. They should've been moving forward from Bioshock but ended up taking a few steps back.
Bruuuuuuuuuce!
Banned
Literally like 15 minutes from the end and I can't bring myself to finish it. So MEH.
And I'm borrowing it from a friend....
And I'm borrowing it from a friend....
I understand your points and I agree with them. Like I said I can see the benefit of both approaches. I liked playing soldier class in Mass Effect for instance because I thought the amount of guns felt justified by their characteristics and how easy or hard it was to collect ammo for them. But some games just lets you collect lots of similar guns with almost infinite ammo, like RDR, and it just takes away the challenge for me.
I don't discard the use of two weapons in Bioshock Infinite as something bad, because I think the design works well with the player movement in mind, and the addition of powers. I see the rails as an extension of the classic cover system; a way for the player to get a way, have a paus and plan the next strategy. You use it either when you are in low health or when you want to find a new weapon or refill your powers.
There's nothing bad with it per se I think, it's all about the overall design that supports it.
I actually didn't know that people looked down on it like this. I thought the Halo games made use of this system for instance?
To suggest that we shouldn't remember Bioshock Infinite because another game was better is pointless and juvenile. A game does not have to be a 10 to be special or memorable.
Personally, I find most FPS to be completely boring outside of MP. Therefore, not only does it not matter to me that Bioshock Infinite's gunplay is boring, but I do not recognize why this aspect is worse than other games. The only things I disliked about Bioshock Infinite's gameplay is that I mostly stuck to the same 2 or 3 powers throughout the game, and (iirc) the ADS was a toggle instead of just hold and release to activate/deactivate. Also, the skylines were an unrealized potential.
Combat in an FPS campaign never stands out to me as something great. What draws me to games like Bioshock and Half-Life is the story and, in the case of Infinite, the environments. Bioshock Infinite is a beautiful game, to the point where my wife got into watching me play it, and watched almost my entire playthrough (something she never does). I liked the character of Elizabeth and the twins. My wife was eager to find out Elizabeth's story, although she's not a big fan of wacky and strange stuff. I enjoyed the story, but the ending and the
thing leave me lukewarm. The setting was amazing, even better than Rapture in my mind. These are the reasons why Bioshock Infinite was a memorable game to me.
It wasn't my favorite game of the last few years, or one I spent the most time playing. It was an enjoyable ride that made me think a bit afterwards, and that's nothing to turn your nose up at. Stop paying so much attention to hype cycles and dreaming things up as the second coming, and start enjoying games for what they are, on their own merit. If Bioshock Infinite was the same game of another title, we would be having a very different conversation about it. The hype and the legacy are what cause this backlash, and it's a little silly to be honest.
Personally, I find most FPS to be completely boring outside of MP. Therefore, not only does it not matter to me that Bioshock Infinite's gunplay is boring, but I do not recognize why this aspect is worse than other games. The only things I disliked about Bioshock Infinite's gameplay is that I mostly stuck to the same 2 or 3 powers throughout the game, and (iirc) the ADS was a toggle instead of just hold and release to activate/deactivate. Also, the skylines were an unrealized potential.
Combat in an FPS campaign never stands out to me as something great. What draws me to games like Bioshock and Half-Life is the story and, in the case of Infinite, the environments. Bioshock Infinite is a beautiful game, to the point where my wife got into watching me play it, and watched almost my entire playthrough (something she never does). I liked the character of Elizabeth and the twins. My wife was eager to find out Elizabeth's story, although she's not a big fan of wacky and strange stuff. I enjoyed the story, but the ending and the
multiverse
It wasn't my favorite game of the last few years, or one I spent the most time playing. It was an enjoyable ride that made me think a bit afterwards, and that's nothing to turn your nose up at. Stop paying so much attention to hype cycles and dreaming things up as the second coming, and start enjoying games for what they are, on their own merit. If Bioshock Infinite was the same game of another title, we would be having a very different conversation about it. The hype and the legacy are what cause this backlash, and it's a little silly to be honest.
Messofanego
Banned
I wouldn't use RDR as an example of a challenging shooter even on free aim, whether or not it had a lot of guns. Encounter design was just the most dull, but then that's a Rockstar game for you. Painkiller, Shadow Warrior, and Wolfenstein The New Order are better examples of challenging shooters with lots of guns.
Yeah I know, there's lots going on in RDR that contributes to the lack of challenge. But I thought the gun system was the most apparent reason.
I'm thinking of picking up Wolfenstein. I've been dying for a well made classic shooter. Does it have good AI? Or where lies the challenge?
SneakyStephan
Banned
I can't tell trolling/satire from reality anymore in your posts.
It sounds like you've never played a shooter that wasn't made for a controller, please stop and go install painkiller, nolf2 , ut, the new wolfenstein or any fucking game that isn't some dumb corridor console shootbang
Bobby_Sullivan
Neo Member
I don't understand how a retrospective assessment of the game would make people believe it was a sub-par experience considering the amount of positive feedback it received during it's initial release.
Also as far as narrative, it is absolutely fair to compare Infinite's narrative to TLOU's narrative and say that it wasn't as impactful, that's an opinion.
Personally, I loved both games. Both tugged at my heart strings with their characters, their world, and most importantly the music as the OP mentioned.
I too am a sucker for a soothing female voice over a guitar or just a guitar in general. My favorite moment in Bioshock infinite was when you walk into the room where the kid is trying to get an orange and you grab the guitar and begin playing it...I'm not going to spoil it just in case anyone hasn't played it yet.
I'm rambling, I love Bioshock infinite. It's fun and beautiful.
Also as far as narrative, it is absolutely fair to compare Infinite's narrative to TLOU's narrative and say that it wasn't as impactful, that's an opinion.
Personally, I loved both games. Both tugged at my heart strings with their characters, their world, and most importantly the music as the OP mentioned.
I too am a sucker for a soothing female voice over a guitar or just a guitar in general. My favorite moment in Bioshock infinite was when you walk into the room where the kid is trying to get an orange and you grab the guitar and begin playing it...I'm not going to spoil it just in case anyone hasn't played it yet.
I'm rambling, I love Bioshock infinite. It's fun and beautiful.
I like to think of Wolfenstein: The New Order as the "good future" of the FPS genre, as if the timeline of video games diverged in the mid-2000's and created an alternate reality where linear map design doesn't mean hallways, ironsights are optional, setpieces are used sparingly, enemies vary in shape/size/behavior, and you can still carry plenty of weapons.
I've been playing shooters since I was a kid, both on PC and console. I've grown to like more designs since then and I have more preferences today. Is it so hard to understand? I can jump between Quake Live on PC and Battlefield 4 on PS4 without difficulty.
And I didn't say that the design was bad did I? I just said it's harder to balance. At least that's my experience with games as the original Bioshock. But really it's a combination of designs, as with every single element to a game.
Actually, it's much easier to balance. Developers can assume that players have all the tools available to tackle any situation with any variety of enemies.
With a two weapon system, they cannot assume you kept a long distance or heavy weapon so encounters tend to be more monotonous. They get around this by just placing whatever weapons you need right before an encounter.
Take choice, variety, and tactical decisions out of the hands of the player. Modern gaming 101.
Why is your solution to a game having poor weapons variety to impose design choices that FORCE poor weapons variety, though? Taking away the ability to have a full range means every 2-item combo has to be viable and/or every battle needs to take place amidst a field of crates, since not shipping players back to redo things is a core Bioshock value already tied into systems like respawns. At that point, why not just have a character action-style pistol/rifle swap, or make them entirely contextual, rather than a false choice of what weapon to carry?
Messofanego
Banned
Yes. Highly recommend playing on Uber or Death Incarnate difficulty if you're good at shooters.
You don't need to aim down sights so you won't be rooted at the spot for a shooting gallery. You have to be more mobile, if you're stuck in one spot, you will be flanked. There is an excellent cover system if you want to be use it where you're not stuck to any cover and can lean around in four directions (down + lean button lets you prone) at any time, and can dual wield at the same time. The enemies don't all just charge at you, they will hang back. They dodge roll around sometimes. There are many sections that can be stealthed, these are indicated on the HUD when "signal detected" is shown which highlights where commanders are in the level that are the only enemies that can sound the alarm and call in reinforcements. If you take them down stealthily via silenced pistol or knife throwing, no alarms will be sounded, and then go to town running and gunning while dual wielding.
You need to move around to get to health and armour packs lying on the ground or when enemies drop them.
In the first few levels with normal enemies, you can knock off helmets that give you armour. If you start looking around for health and armour upgrades by extensive exploring, you'll have over 100 health as a permanent (halfway you'll have 150 HP) and get more armour as you pick up the drops. If you're hurt, health recharges to the next 20 HP chunk.
The challenge is also in knowing which weapons are good against which enemies, and there will be 2-3 solutions (fully charged LKW, shotgun shrapnel, assault rifle rockets, grenades) to every heavy enemy.
blizzardjesus
Banned
Bioshock infinite was the best game that came out last year.
AdmiralMikey
Member
The only thing people love more than a hero, is seeing a hero fall. And it seems many people are reveling in their personal dislike of Bioshock Infinite.
I don't really mind how history or gamers paint Bioshock Infinite. I'll always remember it as far and away my GOTY for 2013, and one of my favorite games of the last generation. Nothing touches the story, themes, environment or even the fun, experiment-heavy FPS gameplay (for those creative enough to experiment).
People can scream all day that Bioshock Infinite is a bad/overrated game until the cows come home, I'll always remember how enthralled I was with it for the entire duration, from sailing up to the lighthouse at the beginning, to returning to it at the end.
I don't really mind how history or gamers paint Bioshock Infinite. I'll always remember it as far and away my GOTY for 2013, and one of my favorite games of the last generation. Nothing touches the story, themes, environment or even the fun, experiment-heavy FPS gameplay (for those creative enough to experiment).
People can scream all day that Bioshock Infinite is a bad/overrated game until the cows come home, I'll always remember how enthralled I was with it for the entire duration, from sailing up to the lighthouse at the beginning, to returning to it at the end.
I have to say I overlooked this angle. I see what you are coming from now and I'm willing to step down on this one. It's nice to have these discussions because it opens up a lot of new perspectives.
But maybe I liked Infinite though because it relied on a couple of different systems that overall worked pretty well together? For what it is then. I still liked how you moved around with the rails and that you could change powers at any given time.
Yes the music,characters and story can chime with so many emotional facets of life that can remind and touch people of own real life events.
Its a shame that such a great story and experience has to be intertwined with some shooty shooty gameplay
I bet in the future games wont be constrained to such strict genres.
Why does a game have to be a shooter,a platformer or whatever else ? why cant it be something else.
Its a shame that such a great story and experience has to be intertwined with some shooty shooty gameplay
I bet in the future games wont be constrained to such strict genres.
Why does a game have to be a shooter,a platformer or whatever else ? why cant it be something else.
I for one hope I can forget it as soon as possible
I've never experienced a game with such mind-numbingly boring combat. Even CoD has more depth. This was only made worse by the fact that you weren't punished for dying or blowing through ammo.
For me it was the shooty equivalent to a fable game without any of the charm.
Edit: I should also say it seemed very lazily made. Clone NPC's with the exact same animations 30 meters away from eachother? C'mon!
I've never experienced a game with such mind-numbingly boring combat. Even CoD has more depth. This was only made worse by the fact that you weren't punished for dying or blowing through ammo.
For me it was the shooty equivalent to a fable game without any of the charm.
Edit: I should also say it seemed very lazily made. Clone NPC's with the exact same animations 30 meters away from eachother? C'mon!
No one's going to tell you you're not allowed to have fun with it. But the general criticism seems to be--mine definitely is--that it's packed with elements that are viscerally satisfying but very much two steps back, one step forward. The weapon example is one, because it means you always feel like you're kicking ass but you never get the satisfaction of specialized mastery or "getting the solution" from Bioshock. The rails are another, as they move fast, tactically-impactful movement from being a default behavior to being a telegraphed puzzle encounter solution/literally billed as 'feels like a theme park ride'.
I'm just not comfortable with the amount of praise heaped on a title for having halfhearted, poorly-thought out solutions to problems it brings on itself, even if a lot of the current competition has no solutions at all.
What's the general opinion on the two-weapon system in the Halo series then? I always thought it was praised in those games. I know I read a lot of positive comments about the use of it on escapistmagazine.com a while back.
I think there were some arguments about creating interesting combinations of weapons, like having the pistol as a finisher for example. Someone also said that too many weapons could hurt the flow and intensity of the environment (corridor-based console shooters in particular).
Could this all just be a matter of preference?