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[Ixzion]

I know I'm gonna get it, but I have to declare this:

While I love Pixar movies (for the most part), the villains that they create aren't that memorable past the movie they're in.

Don't get me wrong...I think that Pixar is THE current master of the animated medium and I go to everything they do on Day 1. The villains they create DO achieve the job of being bad to the bone and despicable, but at the end of the day, I can't remember them to save my life.

I'm gonna list Pixar movies and try to get the villain right. I'm not gonna use google or anything right now:

Toy Story - The bully kid?
Toy Story 2 - I have no idea.
Bug's Life - Hopper (I only remember because it's a grasshopper)
Finding Nemo - Sharks?
Monsters, Inc. - Some green or orange monster?
The Incredibles - Syndrome (This is the only one I remember vividly. He's memorable.)
Cars - I don't remember a villain here. I'll guess Lightning McQueen's selfishness.
Ratatouille - Bully Critic?
Wall-E - Ship Steering Wheel. Wall-E is my favorite Pixar movie of all time and I still don't remember the antagonist.
Up - Some stupid old man.
Toy Story 3 - Luxo? Pluxo? It was a purple bear.

Disney was a lot better at creating villains. In their best movies, every hero has a villain that they can play off exceptionally. I bet every one of you can list off like 10 Disney villains before I even list it. I'll just go with the first 11 movies I remember:

Princess and the Frog - Dr. Facilier
Lion King - Scar
Beauty and the Beast - Gaston
Aladdin - Jafar
Hunchback of Notre Dame - Frollo
Tarzan - Clayton (boring one, but I remember)
Sleeping Beauty - Maleficent
Pocahantas - Governor...something. Okay, Disney didn't have all jewels.
Snow White - Evil Queen
Little Mermaid - Ursula
Hercules - Hades

See what I mean? I remember each of them pretty distinctly (for the most part lol) even though I haven't seen those movies in years.

Maybe it's the 3D animation that makes it harder for them to click with me or maybe it's just that Pixar has trouble doing this.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks like this...or am I?

 

[SolsticeZero]

That's actually what I love about Pixar movies. It's not just about good guy vs bad guy. There's a lot going on in there.

 

[Blader]

That's actually what I love about Pixar movies. It's not just about good guy vs bad guy. There's a lot going on in there.

I don't really think that was his point.

 

[BertramCooper]

Ratatouille - Bully Critic?

A bully critic who happened to have the greatest monologue ever featured in an animated film.

Anton Ego is an awesome antagonist.

 

[Deadman]

Up would have been a better film if the bad guy and the dogs didnt exist. It was perfectly compelling with just the interaction between carl and russel.

I also agree that syndrome was a good villain.

 

[epmode]

The ridiculous finale in Up made me think less of the film, honestly. I don't necessarily agree about the other films but it definitely weakened that one.

 

[Inferno313]

It was the prospecter in Toy Story 2.

Just sayin'.

 

[SolsticeZero]

I don't really think that was his point.

It might not have been, but maybe Pixar feels that it doesn't need a definite "bad guy". Wall-E, for example. Otto (Auto, if you prefer) was just following orders. And while he was definitely the cause of some bad situations and everything, he was never truly bad. He was just programmed to follow that simple order. It's a lot more complex than "I'm a evil sorceress who hates the beautiful princess".

A bully critic who happened to have the greatest monologue ever featured in an animated film.

Anton Ego is an awesome antagonist.

So very true.

 

[Witchfinder General]

The tension in Pixar films comes not from the villains but from the decisions the main characters must make.

 

[Veelk]

Lotso will definitely live on as one of my most remembered villains. Dammit, you fucking bear,

Spoiler

why couldn't you just push that damn button. :/

 

[SolsticeZero]

The tension in Pixar films comes not from the villains but from the decisions the main characters must make.

Bingo. Exactly what I was trying to get at.

 

[Dice]

I love Pixar but... oh wait, no I don't. Toy Story 3 was alright (they are good at "forgettably endearing") but their movies are waaaaaay boring the second time around.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

well no shit., almost all Disney's come from legendary fables or tales, they all have memorable villains

plus, Toy Story 2 had two villains

 

[Pai Pai Master]

The only time this has been a problem for me was with Up. I think the villains in movies where it counted, such as Monster's Inc. or The Incredibles, worked out very well and the rest of their movies tend to be more of an internal struggle within the hero kinda thing. For the most part. Lotso clearly wasn't a bad villain; I don't think Hopper was either.

 

[Ixzion]

It was the prospecter in Toy Story 2.

Just sayin'.

I had to look up a picture of that guy to remember what he looked like.

well no shit., Disney's come from legendary fables, they all have memorable villains

plus, Toy Story 2 had two villains

Here's the flaw:

Most of the villains on my Disney list were created by Disney and don't exist in the original stories.

 

[Pinko Marx]

A bully critic who happened to have the greatest monologue ever featured in an animated film.

Anton Ego is an awesome antagonist.

What monologue is this?

 

[Tornado Condor]

The ridiculous finale in Up made me think less of the film, honestly. I don't necessarily agree about the other films but it definitely weakened that one.

I agree. The film was good and then...dogs on airplanes? The fuck?

 

[crazy monkey]

I
Toy Story - The bully kid?
Toy Story 2 - I have no idea.
Bug's Life - Hopper (I only remember because it's a grasshopper)
Finding Nemo - Sharks?
Monsters, Inc. - Some green or orange monster?
The Incredibles - Syndrome (This is the only one I remember vividly. He's memorable.)
Cars - I don't remember a villain here. I'll guess Lightning McQueen's selfishness.
Ratatouille - Bully Critic?
Wall-E - Ship Steering Wheel. Wall-E is my favorite Pixar movie of all time and I still don't remember the antagonist.
Up - Some stupid old man.
Toy Story 3 - Luxo? Pluxo? It was a purple bear.


Princess and the Frog - Dr. Facilier
Lion King - Scar
Beauty and the Beast - Gaston
Aladdin - Jafar
Hunchback of Notre Dame - Frollo
Tarzan - Clayton (boring one, but I remember)
Sleeping Beauty - Maleficent
Pocahantas - Governor...something. Okay, Disney didn't have all jewels.
Snow White - Evil Queen
Little Mermaid - Ursula
Hercules - Hades
[/B]

all of the disney movie you in your list are classic. I do not like pixar movies anyways.

 

[WillyFive]

With the exception of The Incredibles and Toy Story 2, villains never played a big deal in the movies.

Finding Nemo didn't even bother with one. Which is another reason why they rule.

I agree. The film was good and then...dogs on airplanes?

What's wrong with that? Yeesh, the weirdest things.

What monologue is this?

His review!

 

[Ixzion]

What monologue is this?

In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talents, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new; an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking, is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, "Anyone can cook". But I realize — only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere. It is difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the genius now cooking at Gusteau's, who is, in this critic's opinion, nothing less than the finest chef in France. I will be returning to Gusteau's soon, hungry for more.

This one.

And I agree that it's good. I just couldn't remember his name.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

What monologue is this?

“In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new. The world is often unkind to new talents, new creations. The new needs friends. Last night, I experienced something new; an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking, is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, ‘Anyone can cook’. But I realize - only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere. It is difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the genius now cooking at Gusteau's, who is, in this critic's opinion, nothing less than the finest chef in France.” – Anton Ego, “Ratatouille”

I had to look up a picture of that guy to remember what he looked like.



Here's the flaw:

Most of the villains on my Disney list were created by Disney and don't exist in the original stories.

true, so let me rephrase: it's easier to come up with a memorable villain when the story's already there. Aladdin? Evil vizier. Little Mermaid? Some sorta evil sea creature. Sleeping Beauty? Evil witch

 

[Ixzion]

all of the disney movie you in your list are classic. I do not like pixar movies anyways.

I just put up Pixar's best up against some of Disney's best.

And...I'm trying to figure out if you were trying to argue a point...?

true, so let me rephrase: it's easier to come up with a memorable villain when the story's already there. Aladdin? Evil vizier. Little Mermaid? Some sorta evil sea creature. Sleeping Beauty? Evil witch

What about Lion King or Princess and the Frog? Those two, especially the latter, have a next to nothing story. I mean, PatF is maybe like 2 pages long and has no villain.

 

[kaizoku]

you realise all the bad guys in Disney films are all practically the same character? (some might argue the princesses/princes are too but I love Disney so I wont!) To be honest I don't even remember some of those Disney movies, Hades as a classic bad guy? really?

Pixar bad guys are more subtle, in the same way Buzz and Woody are such great heroes despite being nothing like your typical Disney hero/heroine. They're heroes and bad guys that are dressed in utterly fantastical settings but you might actually know someone like that in real life or be able to relate to them in some way.

I mean I can't eat Wotsits without thinking of fat chicken guy in Toy Story 2. I can totally empathise with Lotso's feelings and so on.

Honestly I think you just got older?

 

[GhaleonQ]

I love Pixar but... oh wait, no I don't. Toy Story 3 was alright (they are good at "forgettably endearing") but their movies are waaaaaay boring the second time around.

*high-five*

 

[Black-Wind]

Yep, is is one of the things I don't like about Pixar films.

The other is that the movies seem to change tone to much in the later parts/ half.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

A bully critic who happened to have the greatest monologue ever featured in an animated film.

Anton Ego is an awesome antagonist.

He wasn't the bad guy either.

This guy, with one of the best designed cartoon faces in the history of animated film, was:

 

[Ixzion]

you realise all the bad guys in Disney films are all practically the same character? (some might argue the princesses/princes are too but I love Disney so I wont!) To be honest I don't even remember some of those Disney movies, Hades as a classic bad guy? really?

Pixar bad guys are more subtle, in the same way Buzz and Woody are such great heroes despite being nothing like your typical Disney hero/heroine. They're heroes and bad guys that are dressed in utterly fantastical settings but you might actually know someone like that in real life or be able to relate to them in some way.

I mean I can't eat Wotsits without thinking of fat chicken guy in Toy Story 2. I can totally empathise with Lotso's feelings and so on.

Honestly I think you just got older?

Well, I don't know if you can simply say that all the Disney villains are the same character. I mean, a villain has to be a dick. And I didn't say "classic". I said "memorable", which is a big difference.

I do think all the Pixar villains do the job well. But take Princess and the Frog which just came out last year. I remember Dr. Facilier like I saw the movie last night. I don't think it's just me getting older.

 

[bud]

Lion King - Scar

son of a bitch! mufasa :'(

 

[Anticitizen One]

Ratatouille, Wall-E, and Toy Story trilogy are the only Pixar movies worth shit

 

[Discotheque]

Jeremy Irons has one of the coolest voices of all time. I personally think it's much cooler than Neeson's or even....Freeman.

 

[Thagomizer]

I know I'm gonna get it, but I have to declare this:

While I love Pixar movies (for the most part), the villains that they create aren't that memorable past the movie they're in.

Don't get me wrong...I think that Pixar is THE current master of the animated medium and I go to everything they do on Day 1. The villains they create DO achieve the job of being bad to the bone and despicable, but at the end of the day, I can't remember them to save my life.

I'm gonna list Pixar movies and try to get the villain right. I'm not gonna use google or anything right now:

Toy Story - The bully kid?
Toy Story 2 - I have no idea.
Bug's Life - Hopper (I only remember because it's a grasshopper)
Finding Nemo - Sharks?
Monsters, Inc. - Some green or orange monster?
The Incredibles - Syndrome (This is the only one I remember vividly. He's memorable.)
Cars - I don't remember a villain here. I'll guess Lightning McQueen's selfishness.
Ratatouille - Bully Critic?
Wall-E - Ship Steering Wheel. Wall-E is my favorite Pixar movie of all time and I still don't remember the antagonist.
Up - Some stupid old man.
Toy Story 3 - Luxo? Pluxo? It was a purple bear.

Disney was a lot better at creating villains. In their best movies, every hero has a villain that they can play off exceptionally. I bet every one of you can list off like 10 Disney villains before I even list it. I'll just go with the first 11 movies I remember:

Princess and the Frog - Dr. Facilier
Lion King - Scar
Beauty and the Beast - Gaston
Aladdin - Jafar
Hunchback of Notre Dame - Frollo
Tarzan - Clayton (boring one, but I remember)
Sleeping Beauty - Maleficent
Pocahantas - Governor...something. Okay, Disney didn't have all jewels.
Snow White - Evil Queen
Little Mermaid - Ursula
Hercules - Hades

See what I mean? I remember each of them pretty distinctly (for the most part lol) even though I haven't seen those movies in years.

Maybe it's the 3D animation that makes it harder for them to click with me or maybe it's just that Pixar has trouble doing this.

I know I'm not the only one who thinks like this...or am I?

How can you not remember Sid? Kid scared the crap out of me when I was little. Dude had some issues.

I suppose I can understand the Prospector, since he wasn't even revealed to be the villain until the climax. Even so, I'm a little surprised at this one, because he had been played as the kindly old man so straight that it felt like a betrayal to the audience as well as for the characters.

Al was a douche in it for the money, but he really didn't matter except as story framing. It's telling that in most of his scenes, you can't even see his face. He was intentionally made to be forgettable.

Never seen Monsters or Cars all the way though, so I can't comment.

The sharks were in literally one scene of Nemo. They weren't villains. There were no villains in that movie at all, actually; the closest would the dentist's niece, and she's just a bratty kid as opposed to a villain.

Ego tends to be hit-or-miss, depending on whether or not you identify with his nostagia trip on tasting Remi's ratatouille.

Auto stuck with me because of his quiet menace.

Muntz- kinda eh, but his sudden 180 when Russell mentions Kevin is creepy and so well done. In the span of literally five seconds, he turns from a kindly old man into an evil, heartless bastard. The dude is nuts.

Lotso is great.


One thing of note about Pixar villains is that they all have fairly strong reasons for being what they are. With the exceptions of Sid Hopper and possibly Ego (who isn't really evil, just kind of an asshole), none of them are evil just to be evil or try TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD/SEA/KINGDOM. All of them had something very bad happen to them to turn them into what they are and distort them into bad people.

Sid probably had some mental issues and grew in a bad home environment, although it was sanitized slightly, since it is a kid friendly movie.

The Prospector was never loved, always passed over for better toys. Now that he finally has a chance to be recognized and admired, Woody's about to pull the rug out from under him, and because he's never had a kid, he doesn't understand that that is better than being in a display case.

Lotso's even worse; he was loved, but thought that Daisy abandoned and replaced him. That betrayal turned him into a cold dictator who is unable to feel compassion or empathy.

Auto's just following his programming.

Muntz was turned from a hero extraordinaire into a laughingstock overnight because nobody believed him. He's what Karl would have become if he didn't let go of Ellie; because he wasn't able to move on from his past, it destroyed him.

 

[Anth0ny]

Yeah, Pixar villains are pretty meh. Still godly movies, though.

Disney villains are something else. Especially Jafar and Scar... damn.

 

[crazy monkey]

He wasn't the bad guy either.

This guy, with one of the best designed cartoon faces in the history of animated film, was:

how come he is so forgettable than?

 

[Alphahawk]

Up would have been a better film if the bad guy and the dogs didnt exist. It was perfectly compelling with just the interaction between carl and russel.

I also agree that syndrome was a good villain.

Woah woah what? Carl and russel were good, but it would of just been average, the talking dogs and everything that came with that was what transformed it from an average movie to a good one...

 

[Ezalc]

Well, I don't know if you can simply say that all the Disney villains are the same character. I mean, a villain has to be a dick. And I didn't say "classic". I said "memorable", which is a big difference.

I do think all the Pixar villains do the job well. But take Princess and the Frog which just came out last year. I remember Dr. Facilier like I saw the movie last night. I don't think it's just me getting older.

I honestly think it's a good thing. The Disney movies make everything to be too black and white. He's good so he's the hero, while that guy over there is a dick he's the bad guy go beat him. In Pixar it's more of a gray area. Sometimes there isn't a clear cut villain and even if there is you can see why they are doing what they do, and you can sympathize with it to a degree. It makes the film have more of an impact, imo.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

He wasn't the bad guy either.

This guy, with one of the best designed cartoon faces in the history of animated film, was:

well lets say he was the miniboss, a la 24 where halfway thru you have Jack killing the semi-villain hiding the big villain

but really, Ego wasn't that bad, he was just a icy critic. In fact, besides his monologue, his flashback scene is the best in the entire movie

 

[Zenith]

Anton Ego is an awesome antagonist.

you mean Will Self, newspaper critic

 

[Tornado Condor]

This one.

And I agree that it's good. I just couldn't remember his name.

That monologue is the best part of Ratatouille.

 

[Discotheque]

Yep, they really got a coup there by casting Peter O'Toole as the critic. He sold the monologue perfectly.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Toy Story 2 was the chicken barn collector

 

[Discotheque]

It was actually Stinky Pete, who they pretty much rehashed in the third film with Lotso.

 

[teruterubozu]

It was Zerg

 

[roosters93]

It was Zerg

It was Buzz Lightyear 2. (for 30 seconds)

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

*high-five*

But Brad Bird's movies aren't! Huzzah for great directors!

 

[MrPliskin]

I disagree, well, sort of. I don't think the Pixar movies boil down to such trite and simplistic mechanics as "good guy vs bad guy". Villains are, to me, completely unimportant to a plot line, and only serve as a way to deliver an obviously lacking narrative in a more robust way.

Pixar movies have a bit more depth and character, and instead of depending on the trials of a good guy vs th exploits of a bad guy, they focus on character development and interaction, which is what makes their films unique to me.

 

[Buckethead]

This thread is bad and you should feel bad.

I didn't read the rest of the garbage but the villain in Toy Story 2 was Stinky Pete you dummies.

 

[Thagomizer]

It was actually Stinky Pete, who they pretty much rehashed in the third film with Lotso.

There's a difference in motivation, though- Pete wants to be loved, and is going about what he thinks is the best way of getting that, even if it is totally wrong. He doesn't understand that being stared at by people in a museum isn't love, because he doesn't know what it is. He just thinks it means attention

Lotso, however, thinks that there is no such things as love- "We're all just trash. We were made to be thrown away." He was loved, but mistook Daisy replacing him with another Lotso which, as Woody points out, is actually proof of how much she loved him- and now thinks that kids can't love toys. He's so malicious that he literally brainwashes Buzz and then leaves Andy's toys to be incinerated because they proved him wrong and that love does exist.

Disney villains, though, are much more hammy and bombastic, by their natures. Pixar villains, whenever they do the same, tend to get cut off in the middle of their speech - this happens to Lotso and twice to Syndrome. They also have musical numbers, which make them memorable because you associate the those songs with them- how many people, when they think of Scar, the first thing that pops into their head is "Be Prepared?"

 

[Discotheque]

I like Stanton's output a bit more so far. (Finding Nemo and Wall E are my favorite Pixar films followed by Ratatouille and Toy Story 2)

 

[Ixzion]

One thing of note about Pixar villains is that they all have fairly strong reasons for being what they are. With the exceptions of Sid Hopper and possibly Ego (who isn't really evil, just kind of an asshole), none of them are evil just to be evil or try TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD/SEA/KINGDOM. All of them had something very bad happen to them to turn them into what they are and distort them into bad people.

That's a really good point. That's why I consider most of the Pixar films to be fantastic, since they know how to make their bad guys get to you. For instance, Lotso really burned me up when

Spoiler

he left Woody and the gang to die in the incinerator. I wanted him to pretty much be killed. :lol

But I wonder if that gray area makes them less memorable?

 

[teruterubozu]

Woody's the ultimate villain.
What kind of kid's toy is named "Woody"?