I'd be happy to oblige you if I weren't on mobile. I don't feel like retyping the bulk of your list.
But if those are your ideas of games "worth looking at", then there isn't a single bad game on Saturn and PlayStation.
"Japan was not needed. The 3do sold millions despite it's mistakes."
By the time Saturn and PlayStation were launching 3DO was at 700,000 units. How it reached "millions", I'd like to hear. Unless Oprah Winfrey gave them all out during an episode to her viewers.
at some point, you'd think a person would stop rubbing salt on their own wound.
Still waiting for that proof that the 68k didn't bottleneck Jaguar graphics or will you evade again?
You mean beyond the source code to the game you said couldn't run on the processor, the jaguar SDk documents that have been posted, interviews from jeff minter, etc? More proof than that? To counter the claim you're making without any proof on your side what so ever? The claims coming from the guy who, 2 days ago, didn't even know the name of the CPU he was arguing about?
lol
As an owner of the Jaguar then, I wish it was a success. I remember my friend telling me Mortal Kombat 3 was coming soon. I was hyped! It didn't happen.
I did actually and corrected it on the same page before you posted.
Also you didn't prove the 68k didn't actually hurt the Jaguars graphics, you posted a website and I posted another thread on that same website you have yet to rebuke.
How about you stop evading and answer back properly isntead of going in cricles trying to change subjects like a 3 year old child?
the argument is over, dude. Absolutely nobody in this thread believes anything you're saying. You're wasting your time with your quad-quotes, you haven't swayed anybody in this topic.
Wow, I didn't know! I would love to see how it worked on the Jaguar. Ps1 version was the best from what I remembered, but the loading sucked.MK3 indeed was in development for both the Jaguar and 3DO. People have been searching for in-development protos of the Jag MK3 for a long time with no success. However, not that long ago, a shitload of 3DO MK3 assets were found.
Wow, I didn't know! I would love to see how it worked on the Jaguar. Ps1 version was the best from what I remembered, but the loading sucked.
The little risc engined were decent processors. I was surprised that they didn't use off the shelf
designs, but they basically worked ok. They had some design hazards (write after write) that didn't get
fixed, but the only thing truly wrong with them was that they had scratchpad memory instead of
caches, and couldn't execute code from main memory. I had to chunk the DOOM renderer into nine
sequentially loaded overlays to get it working (with hindsight, I would have done it differently in about
three...).
The 68k was slow. This was the primary problem of the system. You options were either taking it
easy, running everything on the 68k, and going slow, or sweating over lots of overlayed parallel asm
chunks to make something go fast on the risc processors.
That is why playstation kicked so much ass for development -- it was programmed like a single serial
processor with a single fast accelerator.
If the jaguar had dumped the 68k and offered a dynamic cache on the risc processors and had a tiny
bit of buffering on the blitter, it could have put up a reasonable fight against sony.
Sorry idiot, I posted proof using the same website you did, you don't get to pretend that it doesn't exist because you are losing an argument. The argument is not over you freaking lost you literally have no addressed that link and decided to act like a baby instead circling around and pretending that proof isn't there and you're to scared to address it.
Wait, what kind of an Amiga is this?John Camrack's opinion of the M68k is well documented, and entirely wrong. remember when he claimed the Amiga couldn't run doom because of the m68k?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbBSahI6W9c
Also, I'm chuckling at only one guy in this topic using terms like "idiot," "scum," "baby," etc who thinks he's engaging in civil conversation.
2 million is millions it's not a paralleled universe. That's impressive given all it's mistakes and the fact it was trying to be a pure game consoles the first couple years.
Also that's nice you think games like Ace combat and such were very big (they weren't that bg) but what I said was that in Europe and NA, the best selling games outside Nintendo consoles, usually had a bigger pool of western games.
Crash, Spyro, Tony Hawk, Tombraider, Frogger, Rayman, Oddworld, Croc, Driver, Spider-man, Syphon Filter, Twisted Metal, MOH, NFS, Disney, Jet Moto, GTA, etc.
Also Metal Gear, Tekken 3, GT did not release in 1997.
But point is, uh just as many best selling games. It seems clear imo at least for the west, japanese games influence on sales the PSX's popularity is hyperbolic, granted they did have a large effect just nowhere close as many keep implying.
I mean WW it's more even, but that's because there's a whole country where a lot of the western games didn't sell too well in. Japan. If you look at western sales of games alone it's crustal clear.
Wait, what kind of an Amiga is this?
I would guess that only the A4000 would have such performance with Doom.
Yes it did and it has more than 400 games published.
John Camrack's opinion of the M68k is well documented, and entirely wrong. remember when he claimed the Amiga couldn't run doom because of the m68k?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbBSahI6W9c
The 68k was the main reason why so many Jag games looked like thier 16
bit counter parts...that was also due to the fact that they were almost
straight ports. No updates to color depth or such. This was due to the
tools lacking a useful RISC compiler and Atari's own ignorance of not
knowing you can indeed run GPU RISC code reliably from main RAM.
Most developers did not want to bother to write 100% RISC assembler
on the Jag and went the 68k port route. This essentially reduced the
Jaguar to 1/8 its ability.
Use of the blitter OPL and small RISC code only cause terrible bus
contentions with the 68k. The 68k has priority when it is running over
the bus. That means all other processors have to wait until the 68k
decides it wants to release it. So even those all the other processors
are much more powerful and utilize the bus to its fullest, they were
stymied by the 68k always choking the system.
According to KoolKitty89 it was actually a very cheap processor. The original setup used the 68K for the main CPU and TOM for rendering graphics, Jerry was for sound. There was some issue with the 68K and TOM not being able to access Main RAM at the same time, so TOM was limited to scratch pad memory (doesn't retain data) for rendering. Once the Atari dev community found a workaround for that, which I think effectively keeps the 68K off entirely, they were able to use TOM as the main CPU and renderer.
And they don't just stop the 68k to let the graphics chips work... doing that alone is critical for average Jag games (you DO NOT want to interleave accesses with the 68k -at least in the single bank implementation they used- as it forces page breaks and kills bandwidth for the graphics chips -ie instead of 75 ns in page mode they get knocked down to 175 ns random accesses -texture mapping is the only thing that's stuck with 175 ns accesses and 16-bit at that as there's no word buffer let alone the line buffers other blitter/OP functions have), but the real trick is to not use the 68k at all.
Programmers discovered that the GPU was flexible enough to act as the CPU in the system alone. (some bugs make it tough and it really isn't a great CPU, but compared to the 68k it's a lot faster... it's a DSP-like chip aimed most prominently at transform and lighting -what the manual focuses on demonstrating its use with- but was programmable more like a CPU and could be forced into that role in a pinch -a modified derivative with a cache and bug fixes was planned as the CPU of the Jag 2 due to the fact Atari owned the IP and could use it more cheaply than off the shelf RISC CPUs, but that never got completed)
I think Jag homebrew programmers mentioned that the 68k is most useful for interrupts and a handful of really tight loops compared to the GPU, so it could be selectively used for that, otherwise it's onl good due to ease of programming. (at the expense of heavy hurt on the system)
Dude you actually listed Frogger as a game having a bigger influence on PS1 sales than most Japanese games for the system? Lol.
And Disney? Disney what? A lot of those other games you mention were kind of low-key compared to bigger Japanese releases like RE1, 2, Toshinden, Ridge Racer/Rage Racer, etc.
Hey another link not far from that one:
John Camrack's opinion of the M68k is well documented, and entirely wrong. remember when he claimed the Amiga couldn't run doom because of the m68k?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbBSahI6W9c
To be fair, we are not really talking vanilla A500, seing this comment on the video page
http://www.gamefaqs.com/3do/918744-3do/faqs/30744
A list I found in literally 5 seconds, and it has over 200, and it's still missing games, and it doesn't include imports, half the people here don't seem to try at all.
Edit 2: Here's one with over 400 games: https://nixzero.wordpress.com/236-2/
Wow that took like 1 minute.
However, it DOES include unofficially released prototypes (Powerslide and Icebreaker 2, for example). It DOES contain magazine coverdiscs and demos, however.
Dude you actually listed Frogger as a game having a bigger influence on PS1 sales than most Japanese games for the system? Lol.
And Disney? Disney what? A lot of those other games you mention were kind of low-key compared to bigger Japanese releases like RE1, 2, Toshinden, Ridge Racer/Rage Racer, etc.
Edit: Here's a close to complete list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tPPrDrshfrQlAPH41SaY36d02er2-JQobmJyVVZTkUY/edit
Edit 2: Here's one with over 400 games: https://nixzero.wordpress.com/236-2/
Wow that took like 1 minute.
That list includes games that never were released, like "Clayfighter II" and "Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp"
You should probably take more than 1 minute to review the "evidence" you're presenting.
We're not talking the A500 at all, we're talking the A1200.
Maybe you should have taken 2 minutes to read.
Lost of educational shovelware, multi CD games are counted twice, one by disk (one game count for 4, at least, ...)
Edit 2: Here's one with over 400 games: https://nixzero.wordpress.com/236-2/
Wow that took like 1 minute.
Did you read the last link?: https://nixzero.wordpress.com/236-2/
3DO Action Pak (AD&D Slayer, Dragon's Lair, Soccer Kid, Shanghai Triple Threat)
3DO Demo Disc Program - 3DO Storage Manager
3DO Demo Disc Program - Burning Soldier
3DO Demo Disc Program - Club 3DO - Station Invasion
3DO Demo Disc Program - Escape From Monster Manor
3DO Demo Disc Program - FIFA International Soccer
3DO Demo Disc Program - Gridders
3DO Demo Disc Program - Guardian War
3DO Demo Disc Program - John Madden Football
3DO Demo Disc Program - Jurassic Park Interactive
3DO Demo Disc Program - Road Rash
3DO Demo Disc Program - Shock Wave
3DO Demo Disc Program - Soccer Kid
3DO Demo Disc Program - Star Control II
3DO Demo Disc Program - Super Wing Commander
3DO Demo Disc Program - Total Eclipse
3DO Demo Disc Program - Twisted: The Game Show
3DO Demo Disc Program - Way of the Warrior
3DO Game Guru
3DO Games: Decathlon
3DO Interactive Sampler #1
3DO Interactive Sampler #2
3DO Interactive Sampler #3
3DO Interactive Sampler #4
3DO Magazine 01 (3DO Interactive Sampler)
3DO Magazine 02 (Super Street Fighter II Turbo demo)
3DO Magazine 03 (Theme Park demo)
3DO Magazine 04 (Syndicate demo)
3DO Magazine 05 (Space Ace demo)
3DO Magazine 06 (Captain Quazar & BattleSport demo)
3DO Magazine 07 (Star Fighter demo)
3DO Magazine 08 (Phoenix 3 demo)
3DO Magazine 09 (Multiple Game demos)
3DO Magazine 10 (Super Street Fighter II Turbo demo)
3DO Magazine 11 (Theme Park demo)
3DO Magazine 12 (Syndicate demo)
3DO Magazine 13 (Olympic Summer Games demo)
3DO Maniac Pack (Alone in the Dark, Way of the Warrior, Out of This World, Battle Chess)
3DO Multi Game Sampler Number 3, The Happy Birthday 3DO!
3DO Storage Manager 2.1 (for use with FZ-EM256)
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #01
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #02
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #03
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #04
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #05
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #06
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #07
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #08
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #09
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #10
Live! 3DO Magazine CD-ROM #11
Panasonic REAL 3DO - (Demo)nstration CD
Panasonic REAL 3DO - Sampler CD (AZ)
Panasonic REAL 3DO - Sampler CD (BZ)
Panasonic REAL 3DO - Sampler CD (JP)
Panasonic REAL 3DO - Sampler CD (PAL)
Panasonic Special CD-ROM (JP)
Total Eclipse
Total Eclipse (Demo)
Total Eclipse (Demo) (White Cover)
That list includes games that never were released, like "Clayfighter II" and "Dragon's Lair II: Time Warp"
You should probably take more than 1 minute to review the "evidence" you're presenting.
Did you read the last link?: https://nixzero.wordpress.com/236-2/
A1200 was not with a m68k,more a 68020 ?
this is what I said.
And this one was with some accelerator card, no ?
Not very familiar with the Amiga family customization, but I think the bus could be boosted big time.
Wow that's like 3 games in a list of over 416, so exactly what did you proive? Nothing? My point still stands even without those.
You got to be the biggest baby I have ever seen you lost. Or do we need to count together so you can learn how numbers work?
m68k is a family of processors. There is no single "m68k" processor, just like how there is no single "x86" processor.
.
Thanks for the link, I'm interested to see what these few hundred games Moby Games missed are...
Would you think it might be time to stop arguing about things you clearly know nothing about?
Playstation Underground Vol. 1 Issue 1
Playstation Underground Vol. 1 Issue 2
Playstation Underground Vol. 1 Issue 3
Playstation Underground Vol. 1 Issue 4
Playstation Underground Vol. 2 Issue 1
Playstation Underground Vol. 2 Issue 2
Playstation Underground Vol. 2 Issue 3
Playstation Underground Vol. 2 Issue 4
Playstation Underground Vol. 3 Issue 1
Playstation Underground Vol. 3 Issue 2
Playstation Underground Vol. 3 Issue 3
Playstation Underground Vol. 3 Issue 4
Playstation Underground Vol. 4 Issue 1
Playstation Underground Vol. 4 Issue 2
m68k is a family of processors. There is no single "m68k" processor, just like how there is no single "x86" processor. m68k refers to the architecture and instruction set, and there are many different models.
My A1200 doesn't have an accelerator card in it, no. It has a 030 model of m68k however.
the main difference between the A500 and the A1200 isn't the CPU, it's that the A1200 has the AGA chipset for graphics (compared to OCS and ECS chipsets in the A500).
actually, that's two games I listed, not 3. I think, yes, we do need to count together so someone can learn how numbers work.
I stopped at this.
"It DOES contain magazine coverdiscs and demos, however."
There is no reason to backtrack.You can't backtrack on japanese made games to games published by japanese companies that's not how it works.
Also you do realize 2 million is millions right?
Frogger but also Namco Museum volumes were big sellers in US for PS1 (but also N64).Dude you actually listed Frogger as a game having a bigger influence on PS1 sales than most Japanese games for the system? Lol.
Thanks. I was thinking Carmack was only talking about the 68000 in the A500.
A pathetic scum tactic, nitpicking like 12 demos and rpetending their not games but I bet you won't have any issues with this:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/category/999-all?page=35
PSX list:
I mean really. Hypocrites.
Are you serious o.0?Don't laugh - that one Frogger remake sold more copies on PS1 than all the Ridge Racers combined
I died.Uh what junk is on that list?
First of all, I posted 60 examples from your list, not 12, they were my quick picks, there is a lot more garbage, duplicates and demos on the list.
Secondly, you were arguing that 3D0 had 400 games, what has PlayStation library have to do with anything?
My point was to demonstrate that you are posting stuff you don't know anything about, and backing it with links you haven't even read/understood yourself, which invalidate your claim.