Sapiens
Member
I\'m sorry could you elaborate on this.
Thank you for escaping my apostrophe three times, lol. Seek mental help.
I love threads like this.
I\'m sorry could you elaborate on this.
Hey look the same website:
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/102168-why-are-frame-rates-of-jaguar-3d-games-so-low/page-6
Well?
The m68k isnt a "2d chip," its a cpu. And literally all it handles is controller multiplexing, you can entirely avoid the m68k all together.
The m68k doesnt handle graphics. It is used as a dsp and handles controller multiplexing.
IIRC, the Genesis and 32x were two separate consoles running in a weird kind of tandem. The Genesis output its own graphics, and the 32x overlaid its own over those. So ya, it would need that binary to give data/instructions to the Genesis.Lol this is gibberish.
The sega genesis has an m68k. The 32x contains a bios rom with an m68k binary to begin execution on the sega genesis, but the 32x does not have an m68k at all. It has an sh2 processor.
What part of \\\"On the jaguar\\\" did you fail to read?
Well what? That is literally what I said earlier in this topic:
Your quote doesnt say what you think it says. The m68k has nothing to do with \"2d\" or \"3d.\"
And your claim that you \"couldnt run cyber morph on the m68k\"?
Your quote doesnt say what you think it says. The m68k has nothing to do with "2d" or "3d."
IIRC, the Genesis and 32x were two separate consoles running in a weird kind of tandem. The Genesis output its own graphics, and the 32x overlaid its own over those. So ya, it would need that binary to give data/instructions to the Genesis.
You said the 68k in regarding bottle-necking the system in 3D was \"not true\"
Right, the 32x has a video in port that takes the entire genesis output as a frame, and gets treated as a layer.
Quote me saying this
You\'re actual quote was \"No it wasn\'t\" to my statement of the 68k being a nightmare for 3D developers.
Which it was.
IIRC, the Genesis and 32x were two separate consoles running in a weird kind of tandem. The Genesis output its own graphics, and the 32x overlaid its own over those. So ya, it would need that binary to give data/instructions to the Genesis.
I haven\'t really read much about the Jag in ages, but the 68000 wasn\'t even meant to be used for Graphics. It was supposed to coordinate all the other chips.
Console hardware designs were an absolute mess during the transition to 3D.
It wasnt a nightmare for developers, it was a crutch. Most people ignored tom and jerry entirely because the BUS was a bottleneck (not the processor). Most devs leaned on the m68k exclusively because it was the most well understood and easy to work with component on the jaguar, because it was the only bit that wasnt a custom, foreign architecture. The reason most games exist on the jaguar period is because devs were familiar with the m68k, which is why they gravitated to it.
Uh no, the 68K is mandatory
It wasnt a nightmare for developers, it was a crutch. Most people ignored tom and jerry entirely because the BUS was a bottleneck (not the processor). Most devs leaned on the m68k exclusively because it was the most well understood and easy to work with component on the jaguar, because it was the only bit that wasnt a custom, foreign architecture. The reason most games exist on the jaguar period is because devs were familiar with the m68k, which is why they gravitated to it.
I remember people connecting their Genesis straight to their TV and wondering what the hell was wrong.
Good times.
Thank you for escaping my apostrophe three times, lol. Seek mental help.
Ya, the load was split between the two machines, the 32x doing what the Genesis couldn't. The Genesis would handle logic, controls, and background graphics, where needed.Yeah, the cable used to connect the Genesis to the 32x can be quite elusive and hard to find. The 32x is a weird piece of hardware, but I guess it was the only way that they could bypass the Genesis video display processor so they could display more colours on screen. But may 32x games tend to use the Genesis for background layers. Like Mortal Kombat II or Primal Rage.
He really needs to restart his browser or something, those backslashes are becoming really excessive.
It wasnt a nightmare for developers, it was a crutch. Most people ignored tom and jerry entirely because the BUS was a bottleneck (not the processor). Most devs leaned on the m68k exclusively because it was the most well understood and easy to work with component on the jaguar, because it was the only bit that wasnt a custom, foreign architecture. The reason most games exist on the jaguar period is because devs were familiar with the m68k, which is why they gravitated to it.
No it isnt
Yes it is you cannot completely disable the 68k. Stop.
You are now gong in cricles about something you know nothing about, and you are still evading the other points I responded to of yours. Clearly not trying to have a serious discussion.
No see now you are using the \"lol\" argument instead of backing yourself up.
Tempest 2k has heavy uses of sprites, and is barely pushing an advancedments in 3D on the jaguar, which was my argument fromt he start, so you can\'t backtrack and pull this nonsense trick while you are losing the debate.
Prove to me the 68k on the jaguar was not a bottleneck. Why is the 68k often an issue when you look up the Jags set-up? Why can\'t you use the 68k at the same time as the blitter or the two more capable riscs? Why have there been statements of turning the 68k off for better results and framerate?
You have zero idea what you are talking about. Worst part s most of this is easily searchable.
the 68000 normally has the lowest bus priority but under interrupt its priority is increased.
This means that even in some cases where the 68000 could saturate the bus, the RISC cores can keep on trucking, and is the preferred way anyway due to GPU/DSP bugs that can occur when trying to execute from main RAM after conditionals.The advantage to the GPU of having local memory is both that it is faster, and that it does not require ownership of the system bus to be accessed.
Interesting thread. Feels like a blast from the past. Sounds like the hardware design for the Jag was a botch job too. Guess I need to be a bit nicer to the teams behind other convoluted platforms which now seem positively elegant by comparison.
Yes it is you cannot completely disable the 68k. Stop.
That's why I stuck around.
Aside from when I found one at a garage sale a few years ago, and didn't have the $10 to buy it (with games), I haven't talked about the system in ages.
Even if John Carmack himself tells him that Doom on the Lynx is impossible, PentagonRun will probably say he is wrong.
Even if John Carmack himself tells him that Doom on the Lynx is impossible, PentagonRun will probably say he is wrong.
It wasnt a nightmare for developers, it was a crutch. Most people ignored tom and jerry entirely because the BUS was a bottleneck (not the processor). Most devs leaned on the m68k exclusively because it was the most well understood and easy to work with component on the jaguar, because it was the only bit that wasnt a custom, foreign architecture. The reason most games exist on the jaguar period is because devs were familiar with the m68k, which is why they gravitated to it.
The N64 also had poor Japanese 3rd party support (compared to Saturn and PS1). It also had cartridges. It was also "64bit" a number that Atari surely made look bad with their shitty ads.
But it managed to do pretty OK in the end because it had a bunch of great games and they pushed those as much as they could.
The Atari Jaguar wasn't really capable of good 3D. I hear stories that it's actually damn powerful under the hood but there was no evidence of that in games. The 3DO was a much better system in every way and had a much better chance of doing good things, but was crushed by the high price.
White Men Can't Jump was actually a fun four player game, despite not being a great game. Kind of like Basketball with 4 players on an Atari 800 was.
Killing Time is a bad example due to the absurdly low frame-rate. It runs slower than SuperFX SNES titles.Killing Time as well. Both great games.
3DO had a lot of good to great games. It gets so much hate because of the insane price and the stupid business model.
Battlesphere was pretty sweet. Scott and Doug pushed the Jag well, though they spent years doing it for one title.
Honestly I like the Jag library better than the 3DO's, but I admit that us very subjective.
Killing Time is a bad example due to the absurdly low frame-rate. It runs slower than SuperFX SNES titles.
I feel like that Genesis Nomad could be a success
My cousin actually had a Nomad. That thing had a battery life of 30 minutes.
Nope, first one was was big (about 4 million units sold in total).The reality is that Rayman wasn't big until the amazing 2, so having the original first meant little. It's not like, say, Tomb Raider on Sega Saturn. Was very brief sure and probably didn't change a thing, but it was a big game at least.
The two are interesting for different reasons.Honestly I like the Jag library better than the 3DO's, but I admit that us very subjective.
3DO is interesting because it is sort of an early PS1/Saturn (but without the stand out games of the two despite EA good support).
On the other hand Jaguar is a more personal and peculiar experience which you cannot find on other consoles, just very niche and with low budget games.
Bravo 👏