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I think the idea that a console can be considered a failure after one year ridiculous

I think it's ridiculous to believe a single game can change the fate of a console in any meaningful way but opinions, we all have them.
 
I agree with you op. If gaf's snap judgments were made law, then DS, 3DS, and PS3 wouldn't have been on store shelves after 3 months.

I have both Vita and Wii U and love them. That the Wii U is struggling breaks my heart because it really is a fantastic and versatile system, and its library is miles ahead in terms of quantity and quality over the next gen twins. Despite this, I can see how it might not be right for some people, and Nintendo certainly has not helped its case either.

But that the Vita is struggling is a tragedy. It's the gamer's system; it was made for us. Sony really listened to the PSP complaints and then went above and beyond. It's a love letter to the gaming industry and its enthusiasts. There is no excuse to not get one, especially during sales with bundled memory cards. Come on people, wake up! Everything you've ever wanted in a handheld exists and it's amazing, why don't you have one?
 
The reason is that pretty soon Nintendo will have no third party games at all, and very few remaining retail partners. Unless they're going to double their first party game output and start opening retail stores its done. At this point they're the only people left who still think it has a future.
 
Kyzer said:
Do YOU really think that a hundred milliin prospective consumers are watching game releases and waiting for a specific game anyways?
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That's the point, they don't.

We're past the era where one game is going to make or break a console. There is no game nintendo can release that's going to turn around the WiiU to an extent where it's not a failure.

It didn't work for the PS3 either. The infamous "WiiU chalkboard" was a "PS3 chalkboard" first, with a parade of games that failed to save the system.

What DID work with the PS3 was an across the board change in strategy, a drastic stripping down of everything unneccessary in the PS3 to cut costs, deploying ICE team to third parties to get them familiar with the system to end the parade of shit ports, DRASTICALLY overhauling PSN to a point where it was competitive with Xbox live while still being free, and buying up and heavily investing in studios and new franchises to build up a library.

All of that got them from worst place into a statistical tie for second. None of this will work for nintendo and the WiiU.
 
Systems that turned things around retained some semblance of third party support through the toughest times. The Wii U is struggling in that regard already.
 
Shingro said:
success and failure are never absolutes. Look at the perception of the dreamcast, that system came out, struggled, and died and now is spoken in beloved tones.

... sure that doesn't help SEGA much, but measurements of success and failure are pretty individual.

(that being said the WiiU doesn't seem like it's going to light the world on fire does it? =P)
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Dreamcast was a complete success in terms of its game library. Where it faltered was in sales.

The WiiU struggles with both. The WiiU wishes it had a stellar library like the Dreamcast. It definitely has some great first party titles but it struggles with third parties.

SwiftDeath said:
I think it's ridiculous to believe a single game can change the fate of a console in any meaningful way but opinions, we all have them.
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Donkey Kong Country sort of did it with the SNES, but I can't think of any other notable examples.
 
Wii U is dead, but it's still worth trying CPR in the form of a price drop and mkart. I could see it selling decently at $199 with the right marketing. The problem for them is the sales are so at bad they at the moment that they risk being dropped by retailers as has already been happening in the uk.
 
Kyzer said:
In todays market where a single game, moreso one holiday season, can change everything in the blink of an eye, its pretty shortsighted to be making such drastic jumps in logic. Is this some of you guys' first console cycle?

Everyone thought the 3DS was doomed and it had only been around for under a year. The PS3 was struggling for a long time to hit its stride.

Now the Vita and Wii U are largely considered dead platforms by many of you, and while its hard to ignore abysmal sales numbers, its utterly ridiculous to really think thats the end of the story.

I know the dreamcast had to call it quits pretty quickly, but that was a much more cut and dry circumstance.

Are we so caught up in the minutia of monthly sales numbers that we've lost sight of the bigger picture, or do you honestly believe that the current sales and various other obstacles these struggling platforms are facing are truly indicative of total failure?

In my opinion, we have a long way to go until weve passed the "early adopter" phase off all these new iterations of hardware. And I think were so deep in our microchosm of a gaming community lens that we forget that the average consumer is not constantly looking to buy a new video game console, or even waiting for some killer app before they pull the trigger on a new purchase. The average consumer will either be enticed personally by some gaming experience or consider it as a purchase for their family, friends, etc. during holidays if the value proposition is right. In my eyes, Vita and Wii U have not even really gotten started, and the sales projections were never realstic because people are not just constantly waiting to flock toward a gaming platform.

What do yall think?
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Great post. This week by week sales watching is boring as hell. In gaming everything is either awesome or total shit.
 
Manmademan said:
Weak as the gamecube's sales were, it at least had decent third party support. The WiiU doesn't even have THAT anymore. Imagine what GC sales would have been like with no RE4, no Soul Calibur, no ikaruga, no Viewtiful Joe. 20 million in sales would have been a fantasy.
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these games weren't in gamecube's first year.
 
peterb0y said:
Well... we have a Zelda and 2 Mario games out on the WiiU already...
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To be fair, I don't really count Wind Waker HD as an system-selling release. Not that I'm expecting Zelda U to make a huge difference, but it should make more of an impact that an HD upgrade of a game from ten years ago.
 
It doesn't matter what we call it. It is what it is.

It's so sad when you're at Best Buy and you go to the Wii U section and every box is covered on thick dust
 
Kyzer said:
Now the Vita and Wii U are largely considered dead platforms by many of you, and while its hard to ignore abysmal sales numbers, its utterly ridiculous to really think thats the end of the story.

What do yall think?
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Name at least one video game console that managed to recover from a terrible second holiday season.
 
I was able to get a gamecube at bestbuy for like 50 bucks with metroid prime and mario sunshine.

The best part about wii u's failure is going to be the fire sales on quality nintendo games next year.
 
Wii U isn't going to magically gain third party support. There's no turning around what will probably end of being the smallest installed base for a Nintendo console ever.
 
AngryMoth said:
Wii U is dead, but it's still worth trying CPR in the form of a price drop and mkart. I could see it selling decently at $199 with the right marketing. The problem for them is the sales are so at bad they at the moment that they risk being dropped by retailers as has already been happening in the uk.
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There is no risk of being ignored by retailer, they are already ignoring it.
If it wasn't for Nintendo's marketting budget, you wouldn't see Wii U on shelves.
 
thecouncil said:
these games weren't in gamecube's first year.
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Those games were announced and known to be coming within the gamecube's first year.
The capcom partnership in particular was a BIG deal, as they were one of the few BIG third parties and had announced exclusive deals for a major franchise with nintendo, and not the industry leader.

There's a huge difference between the gamecube, where third party ports and support were known to be coming (if not necessarily out), and the WiiU which will be looking at zero support. Zero. even shit cross gen PS360 ports are being cancelled left and right.
 
peterb0y said:
Well... we have a Zelda and 2 Mario games out on the WiiU already...
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All of those game either look like a remake or is a remake.

Windwaker - a 10 year old remake.
Super mario bros u - looks like a port of the Wii game.
Mario3DW - Looks like a port of a 3DS game.

In what way did Nintendo think they were going to capture the imagination of the public. Do they have any imagination at all?
 
Shmuely Bully said:
Not happening, Minecraft is already on Xbox 360 and IIRC Microsoft has contractual exclusivity for it. That isn't going to turn around the fortunes of a console anyway with how cheap and accessible it is on PC.

It would be a little like depending on Bejeweled 2 to turn around the fortunes of your console, it doesn't matter how popular it is if it's available elsewhere with much lower barriers to entry. The only reason Tetris was so huge for the Gameboy is because it WASN'T available elsewhere.

EDIT: Turns out Minecraft is coming to other consoles, if anything that worsens the case for it being able to turn around Wii U though.
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Of course it's not happening, it's been out on the 360 for more than a year. Nintendo platforms are just about the only things the game isn't out on. My point was that IF it hadn't released on the 360 and IF Nintendo would have secured exclusivity (even timed) then the WiiU might have a chance to be turned around.

All those "ifs" that aren't going to happen. I don't think Nintendo's traditional franchises will be able to do it, they don't have that kind of pull anymore among the general public imo.
 
thecouncil said:
these games weren't in gamecube's first year.
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And games aren't selling well enough on the Wii U to even bother continuing to support it without moneyhats. That is one thing the Vita does have going for it: a great software attach rate.

People just plain don't buy third-party games for the Wii U, I'd argue that it's an even worse situation there than it was for the PSP.
 
I think Minecraft on the Vita might cause a bump in sales, however small. If they stress somehow that it's the full version and not the uber gimped Pocket Edition.
 
3rd party games are going PS4 and XboxOne (and PC) for ease of development

Wii-U sets hurdles to either force a down-port or no game at all. 3rd parties will chose the latter

but but but Assassins Creed 4... if they keep on myaking PS3 and 360 games, okay they 'might port to Wii U. But if stop making games for PS3 and 360, well it's over for ports onto Wii U
 
Terrible sales, heavy hitters bombing, no 3rd party support, way behind the curve in online multiplayer, no successful gimmick...

You will understand how much of a failure it really is when Nintendo announces a new console in 2015 at the latest.
 
Ps3 never did this bad and a large part of its troubled start was the price tag. The first party and third party support was secured and most people knew that the console would perform better once it had a competitive price. Consumers were willing to adopt the Ps3, but not at its initial price point.

The Wii U is already rather cheap, but third parties stay away. Its a much different situation the Wii U is in. Consumers basically didn't want it from day one onwards. Such a thing can happen, just move on.

For Vita you can essentially say the same.
 
I love my Wii U, and I'm looking forward to the games Nintendo has lined up for 2014, but let's get real here; the console is most definitely dead in the water at this point. Vita is in even worse shape.
 
The system is dead. It's time to come to grips with the fact that it's just not an appealing product. I continue to ask: What will make someone who is NOT a Mario fan buy the system? Because that's what Nintendo needs to attract. And how will mario Kart or Smash Bros help attract that audience? What we are seeing is the natural progression (from N64 to Gamecube to this) of a product that is only appealing to a shrinking diehard Nintendo console audience. It is going to sell worse than the Gamecube.
 
ShinUltramanJ said:
That's a handheld. And it really only made a difference in Japan.
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It kept the system alive and the releases flowing worldwide. It saved a platform long enough for it to get a successor.

Wii U has the potential to pull something similar, though it's going to have to be something truly revolutionary.
 
I'm not really clear on this conception that the Wii U lacks third party support. It's got the heavy hitters (CoD, Assassin's Creed, Arkham) day and date with the other platforms, and exclusives like W101. There are companies that have been trying.

Honestly, I really think it's mostly a marketing problem and not a library problem (obviously not from the first party perspective, but I don't think the third party aspect has been quite as bleak as people make it out to be...though I'm sure that will change now that PS4 and XBOne are out).
 
cyberheater said:
All of those game either look like a remake or is a remake.

Windwaker - a 10 year old remake.
Super mario bros u - looks like a port of the Wii game.
Mario3DW - Looks like a port of a 3DS game.
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I like how the game that uses touched up old assets is called a "remake" but the two that actually have all new assets from the ground up are called "ports."
 
Freshmaker said:
N64 had slowed down til Pokemon revived it.

Also 3DS.
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I was under the impression the N64 had a fast start and then slowed down, at least in America where it picked up the majority of its sales

not that 1) it was particularly successful and 2) Pokemon ever "revived" it in the first place
 
SkylineRKR said:
For Vita you can essentially say the same.
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The Vita is in dire straights, but it gets better third-party support than the Wii U because people actually buy games for it (also it's relatively cheap/easy to downport from PS3). I still think it's going to be Sony's worst-selling gaming hardware by far when all is said and done, but it isn't in the same situation as the Wii U.

The sales aren't there for the Wii U in hardware or software and there is no companion platform whose coat-tails it can ride. If the PS4 and XBONE do even decent sales next year they are likely to have 4x the LTD sales of the Wii U minimum and that with far more similar and far more capable hardware.

I just don't see what Nintendo can do to change things.
 
akidnamededdy said:
I'm not really clear on this conception that the Wii U lacks third party support. It's got the heavy hitters (CoD, Assassin's Creed, Arkham) day and date with the other platforms, and exclusives like W101. There are companies that have been trying.

Honestly, I really think it's mostly a marketing problem and not a library problem (obviously not from the first party perspective, but I don't think the third party aspect has been quite as bleak as people make it out to be...though I'm sure that will change now that PS4 and XBOne are out).
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COD, Asscreed and Arkham are the exceptions, not the rule. Also, look at the recent NPD- how long will it be viable for ports like COD to even exist?
 
akidnamededdy said:
I'm not really clear on this conception that the Wii U lacks third party support. It's got the heavy hitters (CoD, Assassin's Creed, Arkham) day and date with the other platforms, and exclusives like W101. There are companies that have been trying.

Honestly, I really think it's mostly a marketing problem and not a library problem (obviously not from the first party perspective, but I don't think the third party aspect has been quite as bleak as people make it out to be...though I'm sure that will change now that PS4 and XBOne are out).
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The third party games that were released (COD in particular) sold abysmally on the WiiU- far too low to justify continued support. EA and Activision have all but pulled support and everyone is canceling projects.

going forward into 2014, only nintendo is going to be supporting the WiiU.
 
Pokemon has never been a good home console franchise. The N64 gathered its sales, but they were never excellent. It just tagged along, and offered something entirely different from the PSX making it a decent alternative for a pack of gamers out there.
 
Not only the console is a flop, but Nintendo, being the only producer of WiiU software, must support the machine to avoid pulling a Sega on its fans: wasting money and good games on dead hardware. I just hope for them -and wiiu buyers- that they will at least be able to attract indies to the machine, to give at least a glorious long twilight to the hardware instead of 3 years of sparse releases all stating with "Mario".
 
The Vita and Wii U are both very, very dead (and I say that as an owner of both).

While it's probably not 100% valid to point to just any struggling system after a year and say "yeah, it's dead", there is such a thing as a level of failure so deep that said failure becomes apparent to everyone. Wii U, and its sub-Gamecube (and sub-Dreamcast, most months!) numbers scream 'I'm a failure' as clear as day. Same with Vita.

On top of that, the trajectory of Wii U hardly seems conducive to ongoing success. No third party support, relatively few first party releases in the coming year, selling Cranky Kong as the savior of the system.... Wii U had a chance to make a splash a year ago, and failed to do so, and now the PS4 and Xbox One have taken its place as the hot new consoles to have. At least Vita still has (a little) third party support, and will at least serve the role of 'quirky JRPG port' device that the PSP served at the end of its life.
 
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