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I think the idea that a console can be considered a failure after one year ridiculous
- Thread starter Kyzer
- Start date
vagabondarts
Member
I used to think so too, but then WiiU happened.
It was a bad idea a mile away.
It was a bad idea a mile away.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I honestly think most Nintendo fans on this board are still at the denial stage.
KennyLinder
Member
About 4m. Brush them under the carpet and start again. They'd buy the next system anyway.
Nightstick11
Banned
Why would it be ridiculous? We don't need a full year to see that the Ouya is a failure. As of now, the Wii U isn't even in the same conversation as the Gamecube or Xbox (both of which did low numbers for the Big Three). It's in the same conversation as the Dreamcast (10 million) or the Saturn (8.8 million.)
We didn't need a year to see that that's no good.
We didn't need a year to see that that's no good.
Well played, lol
Lambda Pie
Banned
Manmademan
Member
This is a conversation and thread about the wiiU hardware. Why would you bring up a software sales curve in a discussion about hardware viability?
That's also not really correct either, outside of a handful of titles. Large first party flagship titles in general (Gran Turismo, Uncharted, Halo, Gears) tend to have longer sales curves period than random third party titles do.
Nintendo just has a habit of making far less console games and receiving far less third party support than their competitors.
randomengine
Banned
Say it with me everyone...
"Nintendo made money every year for the past 3+ decades. Only lost money the past 2 years" They could continue to post losses for a long time and not run out of money.
They could have GameCube level sales for their home console every cycle and still make money if they watch their costs.
Nintendo haters just piling on as usual, with no understanding of how the world works.
"Nintendo made money every year for the past 3+ decades. Only lost money the past 2 years" They could continue to post losses for a long time and not run out of money.
They could have GameCube level sales for their home console every cycle and still make money if they watch their costs.
Nintendo haters just piling on as usual, with no understanding of how the world works.
'Cept this isn't a Sales Thread. You tried, though.
Ninja Scooter
Member
if the Wii U becomes "niche", then it's a huge failure. You think Nintendo's idea to follow up a world wide, 100 million selling phenomenon like the Wii was to create a "niche" product?
You might not be able to figure it out, but the reason people discuss whether or not the Wii U is a failure is because of the way it is selling. Crazy, huh?
SkylineRKR
Member
Exactly. Consumer has spoken and doesn't dig it. Kill it and burn a select few fans, but come back with something suspenseful. I mean Dreamcast did actually good once it was launched, even though the Saturn was killed quickly. Dreamcast failure was more about Sega unable to pour more cash into it and a ridiculously hyped Ps2. Nintendo shouldn't have these problems, not that extreme at least. Nintendo still has better third party support too, even though its bad compared to Sony and MS.
KennyLinder
Member
How much money they have and how successful their current console is are not the same thing. Nobody is denying that Nintendo have ass-loads of cash, we are talking about their latest game console.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
And on a personal note. I will never buy another Nintendo home console again.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I don't think you understand how this thread works...
And neither do you...
Nightstick11
Banned
I'm just gonna come out and say it, because variations of this opinion have been annoying me for as long as I've been on NeoGaf.
The Dreamcast's library sucked. The retroactive veneration of it is almost a Gaf meme.
Manmademan
Member
Blackberry also had loads of cash.
Lots of free cash with competitors eating your marketshare alive with no real strategy to reverse it is not an enviable situation to be in.
Investors judge a company based on potential for future performance, and nintendo is in an extremely precarious situation right now in both the console and handheld sector- and unlike sony they have no other business to fall back on.
randomengine
Banned
I've committed my gaming dollars to only Wii U and 3DS. Both systems provide me with more games than I could ever hope to play. If all the systems have more games than you can ever hope to play, then what are we really arguing about? Numbers? Feelings? Emotions about certain third-party games? Seems kinda weak reasoning to me. Does Wii U have less third party support than PS4/One? Yes. Can any one of us honestly claim that we could play them all, even all of them on the Wii U? Of course not.
This simply boils down to an argument over preference, which at the end of the day will never get resolved.
This simply boils down to an argument over preference, which at the end of the day will never get resolved.
KennyLinder
Member
I hear and agree with you (and how's life after nextgen if you're the same Cyberheater
?)
SkylineRKR
Member
Lots of low budget, but great quick fix games. I'll admit it never replaced my PS1.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Gamecube games were cheaper to make than HD games and Gamecube still had third parties to make royalties off of. Plus Wii U hardware is selling about half what Gamecube did.
Nintendo isn't doomed, but the Wii U is definitely a failure.
Lambda Pie
Banned
tell me this is a troll account. goddamn, no one is this dense.
RobFox64tm
Member
I think I would only truly ever consider a system a failure when games stop being made for it entirely very early on. Wii U will probably have Nintendo's support for at least another year or two, and I'm very excited for what they've already announced. Failing to find a sizable market doesn't mean the same as failing to deliver quality experiences, and for my gaming dollars, that's what's most important to me. That would be my message to all the Wii U defense force out there. Ignore the sales and just enjoy the games.
Let's wait til the December NPD before saying 3D World did "sod all for it." Remember that in the entire month of November, 3D World was only out for 8 days.
dcx4610
Member
Nintendo set themselves up for failure with how big of a success the original Wii was. Nothing was going to live up to those numbers.
4 million one year in puts it on pace to have a Sega Saturn and Dreamcast like run which isn't great by any means but not really a disaster either. If anything, I think the numbers are decent considering the competition, the lack of software, confusing name, weak hardware and poor marketing.
Investors should really be making a stand right now and calling for Iwata's removal or at the very least, a company shake up. Nintendo has to let the Wii U die a quiet death and do something pretty amazing their next system. They either need to put out a system MORE powerful than the PS4/XBone to turn some heads or they need to consolidate their console/handheld market or doing something even more bold and partner with Oculus Rift.
4 million one year in puts it on pace to have a Sega Saturn and Dreamcast like run which isn't great by any means but not really a disaster either. If anything, I think the numbers are decent considering the competition, the lack of software, confusing name, weak hardware and poor marketing.
Investors should really be making a stand right now and calling for Iwata's removal or at the very least, a company shake up. Nintendo has to let the Wii U die a quiet death and do something pretty amazing their next system. They either need to put out a system MORE powerful than the PS4/XBone to turn some heads or they need to consolidate their console/handheld market or doing something even more bold and partner with Oculus Rift.
pants
Member
What if they throw in a free, wearable, life size replica of Iron Man's suit and the visor has a built in oculus rift?
Did you read the OP? Where the absurdity of that thought process is directly challenged?
I'm going with no.
Proper English would be nice. I have no clue what you are attempting to imply.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Nobody is saying you can't like the system. Dreamcast had a ton of fans. So did Saturn. Hell I'm sure there are people out there who even loved their Atari Jaguars and 3DOs. That doesn't exempt them from being failures. You have to be able to separate the idea that what you might like might not be appealing to the masses, and that is not good for Nintendo.
Did you? By what metric is he judging the Wii U versus the 3DS or the Dreamcast in terms of success and failure if not sales? You tell me.
randomengine
Banned
You idea of failure and mine are completely different. I am not sure that most people in this thread have the same formulation.
freenudemacusers
Member
ah, is this the 'hungry' nintendo I hear so much about?
AaronB
Member
"Iwata said GamCube levels are unacceptable" does not equal "success, as being defined in this thread, is selling at better than GameCube levels."
My statement "It's an exaggeration to say Nintendo's third party support is zero" is fact. Some major games just came out. Your response that some other major third-party games aren't coming to the Wii U is responding to a point no one made.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Well I might then dammit!
SwiftDeath
Member
Well wii U numbers were up 340% from the previous month in Novs NPD right?
After the 3DS, I think it is foolish to judge it as doomed until a year. I think its very hard for a console from Nintendo/Sony/MS to be doomed though (Though X1 really deserved to be doomed imo).
For the Wii U, I would have expected it to have killer apps by now though. Sure it has stuff like Pikmin 3, TW101, NSMBU/NSLU, Zleda WW, SM3DW which I all consider games to look into if you have a Wii U, but I don't think its quite Killer apps yet...
MK8/SSB I think will be games to really push people onto the Wii U. Perhaps Bayonetta 2 and X will bring people around too.
In fact, I think Wii U is in a good position in a way for gamers. I don't think it will sell as well as PS4/X1, but I think for gamers, PS4/X1 + Wii U make a good combination. I don't think theres much point in owning a PS4 + X1 for this gen. For me at least, the X1 has hope for me at least for the end of its life if it gets any exclusives that I deem worthy. Otherwise, most of it will be on both platforms.
Wii U however will have exclusives/third party games only on Wii U, that and it offers a totally different experience. I think Nintendo should have put the Wii U much more up to speed compared to even last gen consoles, but I think it is in a good position in a way... It just needs the games to exploit that position, if that doesnt work, then they will have to look into scrapping consoles altogether and sticking with portable, or really put some work into putting their consoles in a position to try rivalling their competitors more
For the Wii U, I would have expected it to have killer apps by now though. Sure it has stuff like Pikmin 3, TW101, NSMBU/NSLU, Zleda WW, SM3DW which I all consider games to look into if you have a Wii U, but I don't think its quite Killer apps yet...
MK8/SSB I think will be games to really push people onto the Wii U. Perhaps Bayonetta 2 and X will bring people around too.
In fact, I think Wii U is in a good position in a way for gamers. I don't think it will sell as well as PS4/X1, but I think for gamers, PS4/X1 + Wii U make a good combination. I don't think theres much point in owning a PS4 + X1 for this gen. For me at least, the X1 has hope for me at least for the end of its life if it gets any exclusives that I deem worthy. Otherwise, most of it will be on both platforms.
Wii U however will have exclusives/third party games only on Wii U, that and it offers a totally different experience. I think Nintendo should have put the Wii U much more up to speed compared to even last gen consoles, but I think it is in a good position in a way... It just needs the games to exploit that position, if that doesnt work, then they will have to look into scrapping consoles altogether and sticking with portable, or really put some work into putting their consoles in a position to try rivalling their competitors more
randomengine
Banned
Yeah, but what is the definition of a failure? I don't think any of us have agreed on what that might be. It seems in terms of sales, the definition of failure changes based on whoever wants to make whatever point they want to make.
CyclopsRock
Member
It's one thing to sell poorly, but it's another to lose the support of 3rd parties to the degree that the WiiU has. Even the Vita is in a better situation in that respect. The problem with losing the third parties is that it takes years to make a game - if you have no third parties working right now, even if the situation suddenly turned around overnight, it's going to take years before you start getting anything other than the odd shitty port of an annualised franchise. This massively impacts your ability to get future sales (in a way that raw poor sales figures do not - though of course these can go towards causing this lack of third party support).
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
That's not happening. The Wii-U may be dead, but Nintendo will continue to stubbornly support it all the way until next gen, releasing a game every quarter or two. It will continue to lose 3rd party support over the course of 2014 and by next Christmas it will most likely be a Nintendo games only console.
Shmuely Bully
Member
I would call losing 90% of more of your sales compared to your previous platform not only a failure, but a historic failure in the console space.
spatenfloot
Member
The Vita is not dead, just stunted. It is simply a small niche product.
Obviously, it will never be a huge success, but it is apparently profitable for Sony and has plenty of small and mid tier titles coming. Plus it has the PS4 remote play functionality to keep it around. I am certain that it will remain on the market for years.
pants
Member
No, it boils down to the WiiU selling like bags of sand in the Sahara
Manmademan
Member
??? not a disaster?? the WiiU is on track to lose over 90% of the sales of it's predecessor.
The only consoles that have sold worse than this in the post NES era are joke tier consoles like the 3D0, CDi, and Jaguar- and the WiiU is pulling these numbers with a larger overall market, far stronger marketing budget, and first party development studios.
It's beyond the worst projections ANYONE had for this system before launch.
Ninja Scooter
Member
it's not zero, it's bad. Third party support as it stands now is not helping the Wii U. Getting multiplatform games that people can get on every other system is not going to help. People know they can get Call of Duty and Batman on their 360s and PS3s. Those games are not creating a greater appeal for the Wii U as a product.
I did. If for a second you think the Wii U can be written off after a year in, you are sadly naive.
outunderthestars
Banned
I still think they need to market the tablet controller as an accessory, throw a pro controller in the box instead and relaunch it at $199 with a game.
Are you implying that investors will just stand by and watch a publicly traded company burn through money for years on end? Then you're telling people critical of the console that they don't know how the world works? Being incredibly passive aggressive is just going to make people not want to listen to your opinion.
Very few people have been saying Nintendo will be bankrupt. Most people just see the writing on the wall saying that the Wii U is, for all intents and purposes, a failure (by nearly any measure). The console is being sold at a loss, selling below Dreamcast, third parties are pulling out, retail in Europe is pulling out nearly entirely, software sales are atrocious, and the hardware is dated (stopping any sort of miraculous third party turnaround). The Wii U is basically running on fumes at this point.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Obviously we are not Nintendo shareholders, we are not privy to NIntendo financial statements, but I'd say that losing potentially 80% of your userbase from one product to the next is a failure. If the next iPhone sold 20% of the last one, Apple would lose their shit. Same with any consumer product out there.
Yeah I'm sure Mario Kart and Smash Bros. will be the games that will start causing the console to fly off the shelves. I'm just naive.
I do not think it's ridiculous at all. First, a year comprises something like 15-20% of a typical system's lifespan. Second, systems don't tend to suddenly break trends later in their life.
And last and most importantly is the size of a system's failure. If a system is modestly underperforming in its first year, then sure, it can recover. It can go from a modestly underperforming system to a modestly over performing one, for example. But the two systems this thread is about -- the Vita and Wii U -- do not fit that description. They are complete and total bombs, with sales patterns more similar to swiftly discontinued systems like the Dreamcast or Wonderswan than to "not doing that great" systems like the Gamecube. I think the best systems like that can hope for is to move the needle from "discontinue this as fast as possible" to "poorly received system."
And last and most importantly is the size of a system's failure. If a system is modestly underperforming in its first year, then sure, it can recover. It can go from a modestly underperforming system to a modestly over performing one, for example. But the two systems this thread is about -- the Vita and Wii U -- do not fit that description. They are complete and total bombs, with sales patterns more similar to swiftly discontinued systems like the Dreamcast or Wonderswan than to "not doing that great" systems like the Gamecube. I think the best systems like that can hope for is to move the needle from "discontinue this as fast as possible" to "poorly received system."
pants
Member
Nah, the hungry Nintendo is the one you see eating bananas on trade shows. The Nintendo I speak of is the one strung out on bad Mario mushrooms.
See, I knew you couldn't commit to that never, I knew it.