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[Vice]

Getting items one at a time is to prevent introducing too many concepts to new, or bad, players at once though.Nintendo does not want to overwhelm players by giving them 8 different kinds of item based puzzles to solve an hour into the game and it's important not to because Zelda is the first game for many people.

The Forest Temple is a poor example because the only completely new concept you use at the time is the hookshot. The new item of the dungeon, the bow, has already been used in spirit through the slingshot. Every other type of item based puzzle has already been done before multiple times in game.

 

[Neiteio]

Getting items one at a time is to prevent introducing too many concepts to new, or bad, players at once though.Nintendo does not want to overwhelm players by giving them 8 different kinds of item based puzzles to solve an hour into the game and it's important not to because Zelda is the first game for many people.

The Forest Temple is a poor example because the only completely new concept you use at the time is the hookshot. The new item of the dungeon, the bow, has already been used in spirit through the slingshot. Every other type of item based puzzle has already been done before multiple times in game.

A simple solution to this: You start with the handful of basic items described, and you start the game in the middle of the overworld, but by the very design of your surroundings, you learn how to use those starting items in the process of getting past the starting area. It's not a fetch-quest-filled, over-explained tutorial area, though; it's just natural emergent learning as you explore for ways forward to your destination. Whatever destination that may be: for some players, the tower on the hill; for others, the ruins by the lake; and so on. And by the time you inevitably uncover a dungeon in wherever you go, you'll have attained a certain mastery of the basic items that form the basic puzzle-solving vocabulary for the first half of the dungeon. The new item you find in the dungeon will solve the rest.

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

I want something like the first Zelda, which was the only good one edit well besides awakening, which was only good because of the glitches

 

[Acerac]

As you said it correctly, you can't complete any dungeons in any order, and that's what I'm talking about. Not how long it takes to get the necessary item from another dungeon to complete your dungeon.
And btw, Lackadaisy is great.

I don't have anything against the open-world aspect of the game, but I personally don't like getting a lot of items thrown at me right at the start. It doesn't feel like you earned that stuff.
Plus I know that it allows for some complex dungeons. But these dungeons won't be as complex as if the game would have a linear dungeon progression. Plus the sense of progression might not be as great as having the dungeons gradually getting harder and the items from previous dungeons being used for some puzzles. Variety is there with the base items, but not as much variety as with linear progression.
I'd like a tier-based dungeon system the most. Just my thoughts.

Well technically you totally can... you just have to ditch the one dungeon you got an item from halfway through... but that's just me nitpicking. At any rate, I think you're right that I could have phrased my initial statement better. I would like it if the developers let us access dungeons much earlier than intended, though allowing every dungeon from the onset might be a bit extreme. Half the dungeons available at onset and the other half being one item away seems fair.

Difficulty of getting the items is important, I agree. That said, could you walk in to level 8 and get the master key without a challenge? In fact it was much harder to do so early than late due to a lack of heart containers and powerups. Super Metroid also implements this very well, you can get items early if you're willing to pull off something ridiculous to earn it, whether it be a series of difficult jumps, some crazy enemies you encounter earlier than you would otherwise, or something else. If it's too easy than it just becomes the natural route and that's no fun. The mix of great challenge and great reward is what makes me love sequence breaking.

I can understand your concerns with decreased complexity and I can't disagree with it. I guess I just have a slightly different mentality on games, I'd rather have medium complexity with a large amount of freedom than a rather restricted path I had to take and very elaborate dungeons. Neither of us are wrong... I just lament that the Zelda series seems to have gone away from what I loved about it originally and wish the devs would make a game I'd want to buy is all.

I want something like the first Zelda, which was the only good one edit well besides awakening, which was only good because of the glitches

OOT, LttP, Majora's Mask: All bad games!

 

[Vice]

A simple solution to this: You start with the handful of basic items described, and you start the game in the middle of the overworld, but by the very design of your surroundings, you learn how to use those starting items in the process of getting past the starting area. It's not a fetch-quest-filled, over-explained tutorial area, though; it's just natural emergent learning as you explore for ways forward to your destination. Whatever destination that may be: for some players, the tower on the hill; for others, the ruins by the lake; and so on.

This does not work for many player though. Hand holding is necessary for a large chunk of players as is being told where to go and in what order. Sequence breaking has been mostly absent from the Zelda series for about 20 years because of this. Even Zelda 1 forced you to use items from other dungeons to reach new ones.

The tutorial area is now a much more ingrained into the Zelda series than being dropped off in the middle of nowhere and the amount of player who are used tot his have to be accounted for when making a new Zelda game.

 

[Leezard]

Well technically you totally can... you just have to ditch the one dungeon you got an item from halfway through... but that's just me nitpicking.

In OoT, I always get the Longshot before finishing the Forest Temple and the Fire Temple. So sweet.

 

[Neiteio]

This does not work for many player though. Hand holding is necessary for a large chunk of players as is being told where to go and in what order. Sequence breaking has been mostly absent from the Zelda series for about 20 years because of this. Even Zelda 1 forced you to use items from other dungeons to reach new ones.

The tutorial area is now a much more ingrained into the Zelda series than being dropped off in the middle of nowhere and the amount of player who are used tot his have to be accounted for when making a new Zelda game.

It can be made to work, though. For instance, one suggestion off the top of my head: Talk to 10 NPCs in the first town you visit, and eight out of 10 will say something like, "I hear a great power lies in the tower on the hill, but the bridge is stuck. Maybe something could shoot it loose." In fact, maybe they can drop such hints about -several- possible destinations, providing you some level of guidance wherever you go. You could also have a traveling companion like Fi or Navi, but instead of the companion interrupting you whenever it pleases, you would be taught to choose to bring up the helper. In other words, if you're just absolutely lost with no clue where to go or what to do, you can choose to bring up your helper character for some suggestions about possible areas to explore and what techniques to use to explore them.

There are plenty of ways to make this work. It's almost dizzying how many there are. This model of Zelda wouldn't abandon the novice players.

 

[Jac_Solar]

Zelda has already done quasi-open stuff, using the open world as a gating mechanism to hide tiers of dungeons. LTTP is pretty linear, but it allows some out-of-order stuff due to its overworld. OoT does similar stuff in its back half. Demon's Souls consists of 5 linear tracks, and Dark Souls forces the player to complete certain areas to unlock others. That gives the designer a better expectation of the player's strength in each area, and it gives the player a more real sense of progression; their dungeon progress allows them to reach new areas and dungeons that were inaccessible before, areas which require their new skills. Without this, the areas that players find in the overworld with their new items can only consist of things that strengthen the player's existing abilities, instead of opening new paths.

Nicely said, and I totally agree. I forgot about some of those points earlier, but they are very valid.

On a similar note, I don't really understand why people want, or value open world games that lets them do quests in any order, like it's a hugely important thing when it's certainly not. If anything it'll most likely sabotage a part of the incentive-reward system, and maybe even the quest design; because, like you mentioned, it doesn't let the developers build up to it by training the player, giving him knowledge, skill and items, and maybe even tie the quests into something greater.

While I'm usually for total freedom, and against CoD "story script" like experiences in gameplay, I do realise that developers obviously need to steer the fundamentals of things like the reward system; instilling the desire to keep moving forward, get new items, explore new areas, improve your character, advance the story, etc. in the player.

It's a tricky concept to implement in-game successfully, but it's one of the most, if not THE most important things in any game.

Yet, for some reason, most games nowadays feature only the most shallow aspects of the "reward" system, if any at all. It's most notable in the "AAA" games, with the FPS games barely having any sort of designed system for keeping you playing / motivated to play.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Well, at the other hand of the spectrum, hopefully Nintendo doesn't do the whole Dark Soul/Demon's Soul thingie on "here we go, now find how things work on your own." The necessity to scour countless wikis/forums/threads just to figure out how things work in a game is not my idea of fun.

I do agree that they need to up the difficulty of Zelda games, however. At least give people option to choose difficulty like so many other games out there.

Also, it seems that I am in the minority in saying that I want Nintendo to put more meat in the character/story aspect of Zelda games. I want to be involved in Link and Zelda's trepidation, I want to feel something as I guide Link through his hardships. I want an emotional payoff to stuff I do, not just a text saying "The Evil is gone okthxbye." Skyward Sword is a step to the right direction in this regard.

The dungeon structure... I don't know. Up to this point I always think that in terms of general ingenuity, no games can top Zelda dungeons. It always amazes me how deftly Nintendo always seem capable of in creating dungeons in Zelda that are not so difficult that one need to be frustrated about it but not so easy that veterans need to stop and think, "hmm, now how should I do it."

The open world idea though, I like it, although to allow players to completely roam nily-wily might conflict with the dungeon structure that I always love and like in Zelda games. Maybe expand the idea of Skyward Sword: more open but somewhat structured as well.... Don't do it like Twilight Princess, however, where the open world is just padding with little to no things to do or discover.

 

[SlipperySlope]

What they SHOULD have done is rebrand Skyward Sword as a Wii U launch title. The rate the games come out, it'll be end of generation again, hampering sales. But I digress...

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Here is an idea for a possibly better way to start a Zelda game:

The game starts out with Link dreaming, the dream places him in a dungeon with most of the important gear. You get to use some of the standard but cool items (kinda like what Metroid Prime 1 did) for a couple of minutes learning how to play this particular game. In-game text from Link's mind will explain how to play the game while you are fighting enemies, similar to how The Last Story did it. Link awakens not understanding what just happened in the dream but you the player don't have to do any stupid tutorial since you'd know how to play at that point (hopefully). From there you can jump right into the meat of the game and start collecting/searching/fighting and enjoy the story without all the long explanations and interruptions.

Also, how about a difficulty setting at the start of the game?

The game should also give you a choice to have a "helper" like a fairy or something similar, or give you the option to go at it alone.

The end game should follow OOT with no fetch quests or needing to return to previous areas to find a lot of one particular item. The only thing left to do before entering the final dungeon should be looking for heart containers, Bottles or any optional upgrades that would help you on the final boss.

I spent 2 hours on Skyward Sword before I truly felt like I was out of the tutorial faze. Then when I got to the 2nd dungeon I realized that the tutorials never actually go away and then the game started to feel like it was being played by someone else and was less personal for me. A shame when you think about it, the game felt like it was being broken up too much with way too many interruptions. I'm hopeful that Nintendo will fix the balance of these things on the Wii U Zelda game.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Here is an idea for a possibly better way to start a Zelda game:

The game starts out with Link dreaming, the dream places him in a dungeon with most of the important gear. You get to use some of the standard but cool items (kinda like what Metroid Prime 1 did) for a couple of minutes learning how to play this particular game. In-game text from Link's mind will explain how to play the game while you are fighting enemies, similar to how The Last Story did it. Link awakens not understanding what just happened in the dream but you the player don't have to do any stupid tutorial since you'd know how to play at that point (hopefully). From there you can jump right into the meat of the game and start collecting/searching/fighting and enjoy the story without all the long explanations and interruptions.

Also, how about a difficulty setting at the start of the game?

The game should also give you a choice to have a "helper" like a fairy or something similar, or give you the option to go at it alone.

The end game should follow OOT with no fetch quests or needing to return to previous areas to find a lot of one particular item. The only thing left to do before entering the final dungeon should be looking for heart containers, Bottles or any optional upgrades that would help you on the final boss.

I spent 2 hours on Skyward Sword before I truly felt like I was out of the tutorial faze. Then when I got to the 2nd dungeon I realized that the tutorials never actually go away and then the game started to feel like it was being played by someone else and was less personal for me. A shame when you think about it, the game felt like it was being broken up too much with way too many interruptions. I'm hopeful that Nintendo will fix the balance of these things on the Wii U Zelda game.

I like this idea of integrating the tutorial into the story in a more seamless manner, but how about taking it a step further?

Imagine, for example, in Wind Waker, instead of having the introduction explained to you in text, starting out the game as the actual hero of time, fully equipped and playing out part of the background: perhaps the final battle with Gannon. Then having it say something like "1000 years have passed, but the people still celebrate this tradition by dressing their young men in green once they come of age..." and the proper game starting.

I haven't played every Zelda game, but most of them begin with an introduction that involves a previous hero, so it seems like a natural fit. You could have part of that introduction be playable, thus killing two birds with one stone. You'd have your tutorial, you could have it skip-able for second playthroughs, and you'd also have a more involving introduction to the story than just scrolling through a wall of text or a boring cinematic as has been done so far.

 

[Kid Ying]

Well, i'm playing SS right now and i'm having a blast. It's the first Zelda that made me anxious to play since Ocarina, so i'm glad they made a turn in this direction. If they continue to make great games like SS on the Wii-u, i'm in!

 

[Trevelyan9999]

I like this idea of integrating the tutorial into the story in a more seamless manner, but how about taking it a step further?

Imagine, for example, in Wind Waker, instead of having the introduction explained to you in text, starting out the game as the actual hero of time, fully equipped and playing out part of the background: perhaps the final battle with Gannon. Then having it say something like "1000 years have passed, but the people still celebrate this tradition by dressing their young men in green once they come of age..." and the proper game starting.

I haven't played every Zelda game, but most of them begin with an introduction that involves a previous hero, so it seems like a natural fit. You could have part of that introduction be playable, thus killing two birds with one stone. You'd have your tutorial, you could have it skip-able for second playthroughs, and you'd also have a more involving introduction to the story than just scrolling through a wall of text or a boring cinematic as has been done so far.

That's a great idea!

 

[Pociask]

It can be made to work, though. For instance, one suggestion off the top of my head: Talk to 10 NPCs in the first town you visit, and eight out of 10 will say something like, "I hear a great power lies in the tower on the hill, but the bridge is stuck. Maybe something could shoot it loose." In fact, maybe they can drop such hints about -several- possible destinations, providing you some level of guidance wherever you go. You could also have a traveling companion like Fi or Navi, but instead of the companion interrupting you whenever it pleases, you would be taught to choose to bring up the helper.

This isn't too different from how Zelda handles it now:

NPC: ""I hear a great power lies in the tower on the hill, but the bridge is stuck. Maybe something could shoot it loose."
Link: Cool story bra.
Helper character butting in: "Hey! Did you hear that? The great power is in a tower across the bridge. If only we had an item to shoot it loose!"
Link: "Like my slingshot?"
Helper character: "Seriously? I mean, if you want to waste a bunch of nuts shooting at it, blast away, I won't say anything about it, ever, but what do we usually use to shoot items with in Zelda games? You know it, I know it, everybody knows it."
Link: "Can't blame a guy for trying, right? Alright, bow and arrow, here I come."

[some time later]

Link: "Let me get this straight - I can't buy a bow from the shop that sells arrows?"
Helper: "Nope! What's next, buying bombs before you get a bomb bag? You so crazy."
Link: "You're not going to tell me where the bow is, are you."
Helper: "Nope! "

 

[apana]

How difficult would it be to actually build an HD open world Zelda? Just from a technical standpoint and in terms of the kind of resources you would need to dedicate to such a project. Lets say a much larger world than what we saw in Twilight Princess. Lets leave out all the towns and people for now. It is like a natural park with mountains, valleys, rivers, waterfalls, forests, etc. Maybe it can be separated into different domains if that makes things easier. Assume you also have monsters and animals roaming about in this world.

 

[CorvoSol]

So here are some things I want kept from Zeldas I have played in the past two years:

Ocarina of Time 3D's Adult segment is really actually pretty open ended, without losing the direction. Sheik insists you go and do the Forest Temple ASAP, but as of now I have gotten the Adult Wallet, Biggoron Sword, Hookshot, every Tunic and the Iron Boots without doing that. I'm sure any attempt at finishing the Water Temple prematurely would be impossible, but I enjoy that I can go and do these things however I want.

Skyward Sword's item crafting is perhaps the only time I have ever tolerated crafting in any way, shape, or form. I absolutely, completely, and totally hate, loathe, and detest crafting in video games which otherwise have nothing to do with that (Tactics Advance and Let Us Cling Together are big offenders, for instance). But Skyward Sword's crafting made it so that Rupees were never bloating my wallet. It also made some items, like the Bug Net, useful for much longer than it was in Link to the Past. But please, don't tell me about the Magatama every time I grab the first one on a session for the day.

Spirit Tracks is a flawed masterpiece to me, but I actually greatly enjoyed its buddy system. Working out the kinks in that could make playing as both Link and Zelda a great deal of fun. Four Swords is on the right track about that. Speaking of . . .

People always tell me they want Zelda to be more challenging, and I really think the Anniversary levels, particularly the Hero's Trial in Four Swords were very tough. They were also optional, and significantly easier with four players. So that's worth looking into.

I'm not saying there aren't OTHER things worth keeping mind you, but these are some things I've been thinking I'd like to see again in the future.

 

[StickSoldier]

as long as it doesn't have motion controls. that alone ruined SS for me.

 

[IrishNinja]

as long as it doesn't have motion controls. that alone ruined SS for me.

i hope all zeldas are redone with kinect like motion controls and the fury from random gaffers causes enough heat to burn this thread down

 

[Currygan]

Well, i'm playing SS right now and i'm having a blast. It's the first Zelda that made me anxious to play since Ocarina, so i'm glad they made a turn in this direction. If they continue to make great games like SS on the Wii-u, i'm in!

posts like these restore my faith in humanity

 

[Kai Dracon]

posts like these restore my faith in humanity

For what it's worth, the 8 or so people off NeoGAF that I know, who played Skyward Sword, all loved it and almost every aspect of it. And all of them agreed it was the best Zelda since Ocarina easily.

And they're people of different ages, who all have different tastes in games, in general.

It's kind of like with NSMB Wii. Every so often in a GAF thread ripping anything NSMB to shreds, someone comes in to say "what? People hate NSMB Wii? I've never heard of that. Everyone I know with a Wii loved it."

 

[kodecraft]

I posted this in one of the old Wii U Spec Threads, but my dream for the first HD Zelda is this:

Game opens with Link as a Ranger, riding Epona on the outskirts of Hyrule. He's attacked by a band of demons, looted and knocked unconscious. When he wakes up, his memory is hazy and all his gear is gone, but a kind old man tells him its "dangerous to go alone, take this" and hands him a sword and a map.

From there, you use the Wii GamePad as a map of Hyrule to explore and discover the entire kingdom and take down the demon plan of Gannon.

Now i rather play this Zelda then whats described in the OP.

Nice.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

I'm replaying OoT and it's so lovely & well done, with weird little secrets and hints of worlds you can't reach. So glad it holds up, I just want another Zelda that feels like this. Somewhat believable like you're adventuring & growing.

 

[Brick]

Personally, my love for Darksiders has now outgrown my love for Zelda. I feel like they need to do something drastic to Zelda to get me excited for it again. I'll still play each one that comes out, mind you, but I'm just not pumped about each one the way I used to be.

 

[Currygan]

For what it's worth, the 8 or so people off NeoGAF that I know, who played Skyward Sword, all loved it and almost every aspect of it. And all of them agreed it was the best Zelda since Ocarina easily.

And they're people of different ages, who all have different tastes in games, in general.

It's kind of like with NSMB Wii. Every so often in a GAF thread ripping anything NSMB to shreds, someone comes in to say "what? People hate NSMB Wii? I've never heard of that. Everyone I know with a Wii loved it."

good example. But you know how it goes: you love a game and expect everyone else to share the same feelings..

 

[Thamauturge]

This sounds like it wouldn't even be a Zelda game. Innovation is one thing, but stripping away a games identity is another thing entirely.

 

[kodecraft]

Nintendo should co-develop two mainland Zelda titles for Wii U. One title developed by Aonuma's team and the other title by Retro Studios. Make it a competition: East vs. West, tradition vs. innovation, old-guard vs. fresh blood. This takes the pressure off of the current team, which honestly keeps recycling a stale formula.

Interesting, but we don't need any east vs west mentalities. I am very interested in a Retro's take on Zelda though.

 

[GamerSoul]

I like this idea of integrating the tutorial into the story in a more seamless manner, but how about taking it a step further?

Imagine, for example, in Wind Waker, instead of having the introduction explained to you in text, starting out the game as the actual hero of time, fully equipped and playing out part of the background: perhaps the final battle with Gannon. Then having it say something like "1000 years have passed, but the people still celebrate this tradition by dressing their young men in green once they come of age..." and the proper game starting.

I haven't played every Zelda game, but most of them begin with an introduction that involves a previous hero, so it seems like a natural fit. You could have part of that introduction be playable, thus killing two birds with one stone. You'd have your tutorial, you could have it skip-able for second playthroughs, and you'd also have a more involving introduction to the story than just scrolling through a wall of text or a boring cinematic as has been done so far.

Very good idea. There has actually been a lot of good ones in this topic...now only if they could ever happen.

 

[Guevara]

as long as it doesn't have motion controls. that alone ruined SS for me.

The motion controls were awful, but that wasn't the worst part of SS for me. The worst part was no overworld and no sense of exploration. Flying to islands and dropping to small maps is not exploration.

 

[kodecraft]

Nintendo HAS to be considering an old-school 2D Zelda game after seeing the piles of money that NSMB has brought in.

One day I will have this game.

Yes, give me this with this art style please on console not 3DS.

 

[apana]

For what it's worth, the 8 or so people off NeoGAF that I know, who played Skyward Sword, all loved it and almost every aspect of it. And all of them agreed it was the best Zelda since Ocarina easily.

And they're people of different ages, who all have different tastes in games, in general.

It's kind of like with NSMB Wii. Every so often in a GAF thread ripping anything NSMB to shreds, someone comes in to say "what? People hate NSMB Wii? I've never heard of that. Everyone I know with a Wii loved it."

I loved Skyward Sword, but at the same time I can appreciate the fact that it is not what most people will want from Zelda. People want to go more towards Ocarina and Twilight Princess and see that expanded upon. I think making those games more "open" and better for exploration is the best path forward. I've said for a long time that Nintendo should go to Yosemite and make a videogame replica of it. You wouldn't even need a story or dungeon, people would just be amazed by having a sword and getting to explore that kind of world.

 

[djtiesto]

ok i just want a new sprite based top down Zelda.

neither of us will ever get what we want.

Me too, why hasn't Nintendo made a "New Legend of Zelda" yet? It's seriously money on the table... especially as sales of the 3D Zeldas seem to be flatlining in Japan.

Also going back to OP's "basic item" motif, why not make it so that other non-essential items can be used to skip challenges in different dungeons? Like, say you get to a dungeon without the Hookshot, you will have to go through a room battling Darknuts or some challenging enemies, but this can be skipped if you already completed the Hookshot dungeon?

 

[schwabdizzle]

I have been wanting a Maga Man that is a 3D platformer.

 

[CorvoSol]

Now i rather play this Zelda then whats described in the OP.

Nice.

But isn't that practically the opening to Princess Mononoke? The guy is riding around on his reindeer, then a demon boar shows up, then he gets hurt by it and then BOOM ADVENTURE.

 

[Neiteio]

Bumping this because the recent Nintendo Direct had Eiji Aonuma saying the new Zelda will rethink conventions such as whether players have to approach dungeons in a linear order, and even whether it has to be a strictly single-player focus. The non-linear/open-world mention makes me wonder if I may get something like I want after all. Something akin to the sense of adventure in the original Zelda, but updated for modern times. Hmm...

 

[soulassssns]

I would be happy if in the next game there were no trains, boats, or birds, but instead a nice overworld to explore like in the good old days.

I so agree with you.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

I fully agree with the op. This is the direction I want when it comes to 3D Zelda games.
Huge overworld, open-world approach etc.

This was my wishful thinking Wii Zelda:

- Huge, Xenoblade-style, overworld filled with towns, villages, quests, dungeons, mini-dungeons, SoA-style discoveries and a variety in locations and themes. An overworld that gives the player a sense of scale, adventuring, travelling, exploring, discovering and freedom.

- In order to create a dynamic and alive world, the game would have real-time day/night cycles, a random weather generator system and NPCs with their daily routines and tasks. No more static, dead, worlds and 8bit-style NPCs.

- Scattered mini dungeons around the overworld in the form of caves, ruins, towers etc.

- The beginning in a Zelda game needs to be straight and strong. Instead of the village themed tutorial, I'd like to see a linear beginning sequence in the style of A Link to the Past.

Imagine something like this:

The game begins in a dark foggy forest during a stormy night. There is no background music, you hear just the storm, your footsteps and the ambience sounds of the forest. You take Link's control and try to reach a mysterious tall tower that you see in the deeper parts of the woods. Through this linear sequence you get used to the controls and the mechanics of the game. No cut-scenes, no dialogs, no boring missions and slow tutorials.

Once you reach the tower a cut-scene begins to play but it suddenly changes to the scene of an old man waking you up. The whole sequence was a nightmare as well as a flash-forward of a later event in the game. Once you're awake you talk with the old man (uncle or whatever), he tells you a story about Hyrule and then gives you your sword and shield.

You're good to go.

exellent post mate. Id love to play your zeruda game.

 

[Neiteio]

A stronger opening is a must. ALttP is far from my favorite Zelda**, but its opening is absolutely pitch-perfect, from both a storytelling and game design standpoint. Majora's Mask also had an excellent beginning, a bit daunting but appropriate to the game's tone, and full of wonderment.

** Don't get me wrong, I think ALttP is an excellent game. I just prefer some of the 3D Zeldas.

 

[Bel_Air_Jeff]

A Zelda game like dark souls would be incredible.. A little less RPG flair though.. no stats needed

 

[cm osi]

Hate to mention him again, but Egoraptor makes a good point in his Megaman episode of Sequelitis. Megaman X was great for many reasons, one of which was that it didn't need a tutorial.

yes, then you watch Game Grumps and he's always "what should i do?!" "i'm lost this game is broken"

the intro stage in megaman x works because it's a side scroller with literally TWO button to press.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I want a game without dialogue or pointless cutscenes every ten minutes.
Skyward Sword is a fun game, but the constant gameplay interactions are really annoying and killing my flow.

Why do we need to watch a cut scene everytime we pick up an item?
Why does the "assistant" have to pop up and interrupt the actual gaming bit instead of blabbing on while we play?
Why do we need unskippable dialogue?

Here's hoping that they'll utilize the Wii U pad to take care of some of the problems. Have your annoying assistant say stuff on the Wii U pad while you continue non-stop on the TV-screen. If an NPC says something, then throw the lines of dialogue onto the Wii U pad so that you never "freeze" while you listen to them, and throw in the response options on the gamepad.

Cut down on random cutscenes and tutorials, and let the game tell you a story through the actual gameplay instead of annoying exposition.

 

[Neiteio]

yes, then you watch Game Grumps and he's always "what should i do?!" "i'm lost this game is broken"

the intro stage in megaman x works because it's a side scroller with literally TWO button to press.

Yeah, like I said before, with open-world Zelda, I think giving you a starting set of tools and then plopping you down in an area where you have to learn to use them to start exploring the rest of the world would be a natural, organic, and non-hand-holding solution to this problem.

Like say you start in a field and if you want to start exploring the western lands, you'll have to learn to use the bow to shoot distant switches, then the hookshot to climb a vertical cliff-face, then bombs to clear a roadblock, etc. Or you could head eastward and learn the same things in different fashion. By the time you're out of that first area, you're well-versed in the basic items and can tackle the dungeons in any order.

 

[Orayn]

A stronger opening is a must. ALttP is far from my favorite Zelda**, but its opening is absolutely pitch-perfect, from both a storytelling and game design standpoint. Majora's Mask also had an excellent beginning, a bit daunting but appropriate to the game's tone, and full of wonderment.

** Don't get me wrong, I think ALttP is an excellent game. I just prefer some of the 3D Zeldas.

The first 3-day cycle in Majora's Mask is way too long and tedious. It's worse than the opening of Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, or Skyward Sword, and MM somehow manages to slip away from criticism over it.

 

[Neiteio]

The first 3-day cycle in Majora's Mask is way too long and tedious. It's worse than the opening of Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, or Skyward Sword, and MM somehow manages to slip away from criticism over it.

How is the intro to MM possibly worse than TP or SS? You're not told what to do and for the most part you have to figure out things on your own. Rather than things dragging on, the looming threat puts your feet to the fire and keeps things fast and interesting. All while you're coming to the grips with this strange new world and all the characters therein. The intros to TP and SS felt downright lackadaisical by comparison.

 

[farnham]

I think the description of aonuma is pretty much what ot. Wants.. I might be mistaken though

 

[Neiteio]

I think the description of aonuma is pretty much what ot. Wants.. I might be mistaken though

Aonuma mentioned changing the "linear" structure of Zelda games and even specified tackling dungeons in no particular order, which is the main thrust of what I proposed in the OP. He also hinted at sharing the experience, perhaps suggesting some sort of multiplayer. Will I get my Souls-style player summons via the Four Sword and player invasions via Shadow Link? Would be grand!

 

[Freshmaker]

He wants something more akin to the original Legend of Zelda and it's not hard to see why. Skyward Sword was choked with filler and its approach to the player was downright patronizing to anyone who's played a video game before. Still a great game, mind you, but one that embodies some rather frustrating design philosophy.

Original Zelda was brutally hard?

 

[Orayn]

Original Zelda was brutally hard?

Many people would say it was. Even if you don't think it qualifies as "brutal," it was definitely more challenging than later games in the series.

 

[Neiteio]

Here's why I think they might be working on something with similar ideas to my OP (namely, the non-linear open-world structure re: dungeons, and the multiplayer integration):

 

[Neiteio]

HALF-YEAR BUMP, in lieu of Aonuma's recent comments about drawing inspiration from open-world titles like Skyrim, which you can read in the GAF thread HERE.

Just wanted to revisit some of these concepts discussed before. I still want an open-world Zelda where, equipped with a core item set, I have the means to tackle any number of dungeons, right from the start. But first I have to EXPLORE a vast and wondrous world, finding the entrances to the dungeons hidden in caves and forests. No matter which dungeon I try first, my core set of items will get me through the first half of any given dungeon... and then when I get that dungeon's item, I can conquer the second half, as well as find many secrets in the overworld.

Some dungeons are tougher than others, of course. If one dungeon is too tough, I'll leave for the time being and try finding another dungeon, maybe returning when I have more items that might make progress go smoother. And in the end, once the core dungeons are complete, there'll be a massive super-dungeon utilizing all of the items, right before Ganon... *dream sigh*