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[22:22:22]

the dragon reborn

You dont take medicine do you

 

[Kataploom]

I have about 80 hours into it. I do like the game, but it's a bit overrated. There's very few creature types, just re-skins. Only 4 dungeons that are very short, not a huge fan of the smaller dungeons (Forget what they're called). I'd give the game a 7/10 as a solid first attempt. It was hard to get over the very barren world with terrible graphics. The fact that sometimes I dropped below 15 FPS is really sad. The switch is over-priced for the mediocre specs it has, even on launch. Nintendo made an enormous mistake release that piece of crap with the specs they did. For $300 it was a high price anyway.

I sold my Switch a couple of years ago and may just use my GFs for BOTW2. I'll see how it is first. Outside of playing Smash once in a while with my buddies, never really used it outside of Pokémon SS and BOTW.

BOTW on switch is 900p though...

 

[Lasha]

720P, 30FPS, pop-ins, none of these bothered me, I've experienced worse

However, while I could see the appeal of the game for many, but for me I just can't enjoy a game that does not respect my time. After finishing the game, while it had its addictive moment, but most of my time was wasted doing meaningless stuff in an empty world, a fun sandboxy physic simulator, a good toy, but I prefer more impactful and condensed experience.

The one thing that stands out in this game for me is that it at least offer player the option to sequence break and go straight for the final boss (not a lot of open world game offers sequence break).

Unless ToTK goes back to the traditional Zelda route (which seems extremely unlikely), I'm not sure I would buy the hype

You've used similar descriptions for games before. How exactly does a game waste your time? What is an "impactful" experience? Why would you bother completing a game if you feel like it is wasting your time?

 

[Robb]

Yeah, I’m re-playing it on Switch right now. It’s still amazingly fun, although by no means perfect.

Can’t wait for TotK next month.

 

[Joramun]

The barrier of the crap controls is gone.

 

[Astral Dog]

Breath of the Wild is a solid, fun game(yes even at 30fps)but its quite overrated imo,its not my favorite Zelda i find it lacks many of the things that makes Zelda work.

Tears of the Kingdom looks like a big improvment,just still 'more of the same' but maybe im wrong

 

[lh032]

I kind of like the broken weapons. It makes the loot worthwhile. When I play games like Oblivion or Fallout they are such huge games and I'm always super OP halfway through and loot is meaningless. I will already have great magic weapons or super powerful guns and I have no interest in collecting new loot. With BotW looting is still fun especially when you get a magical or super powerful weapon.

What drives me crazy is the damn rain, it seems like it's ALWAYS raining especially whenever I want to climb a really tall, steep cliff.

thats the problem here.

Loot system does not exist in BOTW. Broken weapons gives you a false illusion of "loot" system.

 

[TexMex]

No you were right the first time

 

[Soodanim]

The game actually encourage player to avoid combat altogether, there is nearly nothing to gain from combat other than breaking your weapon which leads to more meaningless grinding

This is how I feel about it. Once you learn the strange dodge system and beat your first Lynel, regular combat becomes pointless thanks to the weapons you get. Dismantling Ancient Guardians can be fun up close (otherwise it's a boring parry fight), but regular mobs are worthless and without benefit.

The reward for taking out a camp is weapon wear and maybe a gem of some kind. So really, you have to want combat more than you don't want your weapons to break. For me, that's a balance that rarely shifts in combat's favour. I have no motivation to fight the same 3 enemy types over and over.

Excellent engine, average execution, poor Zelda experience. Could have easily been a separate IP.

I will watch from afar to see if TOTK makes the changes I think it should make, but I'm doubtful from what I've seen so far. Interestingly though, the Ascend power tells me they know climbing for more then 5 seconds is tedious as fuck. Even internally they must have had plenty of people who went straight for the Ruto power to skip climbing where possible.

 

[Paasei]

You weren't wrong before, you are now.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

The game getting takes so hot 6 years after release is a testament to its impact.
Thankfully weapons will still break in the sequel, so we already know what half of the criticism will be about while those actually interested in the game have fun discovering the new stuff.

The game actually encourage player to avoid combat altogether, there is nearly nothing to gain from combat other than breaking your weapon which leads to more meaningless grinding, a terrible mechanic copied pasted from Dead Rising (it worked in DR because its a zombie survival game) just to inflate total playtime

There’s more weapons than you can carry at any given time and as you said combat is mostly optional, so how in the world the “logical” conclusion to your line of thought was that weapon durability is there “just” to inflate total playtime? As if the game doesn’t have content for dozens of hours already without combat.

 

[Marvel14]

Calling people graphic whore is like saying "My preference for aesthetic of exploration is superior than your preference for aesthetic of sensation", which is very disrespectful IMO. Its also very dismissive to all the talented 3D artist and animator, these people put hard work into a media too, not just the game mechanic designer.

The primary purpose of games is gameplay. It's why Minecraft has sold an insane amount, Stardew Valley has made concerned ape a multi millionaire and Tetris sold gameboys by the bucket load.

None of those exhibits "a preference for the aesthetic of sensation ". Heck Op loves Celeste which is uglier than SV. A game with beautiful visuals and bad gameplay is a bad game. A game with bad visuals that don't detract from the gameplay and great gameplay is a good game. I hereby throw your preference equivalence out of the window.

A graphics whore is someone who refuses to enjoy a game's gameplay because the aesthetics don't meet their exacting requirements. Someone who claims the game is unplayable because of these deficiencies when 95% of people confirm that the gameplay is minimally affected by them.

Some of these Graphicshos will go so far as to call BOTW ugly (they have done so in these threads) when anyone neutral (non gamers esp) would say it is beautiful.

 

[SeraphJan]

As if the game doesn’t have content for dozens of hours already without combat.

I would like to know what content does this game offer "without combat" that other good games did less?

How exactly does a game waste your time?

Repetitive and short dungeon? Reskinned boss? No narrative beside lore? Barren world? Repetitive cooking and weapon grinding? None of these I consider impactful

What does this game offer beside "Look what I did with that physic, am I awesome"?

I don't have problem with what other people prefer, but you are the one questioning my preference here. But from what I see, you are not really interested in your own question, since I've already stated I prefer ALBW style Zelda in my previous comment.

Why would you bother completing a game if you feel like it is wasting your time?

So if someone criticize the game without finishing it, its "How did you know if you haven't even completed yet", but if someone did finished it, its "why bother completing it if you don't like it", its like no one are allowed to express their negative reception regarding your favorite game.

---------------------------------

Most often than not when someone expressed legitimate criticism about the game, all you people did are "oh the game sold 30M", "oh the game had a 97 score" " so it must be you are the problem.

 

[Robb]

I would like to know what content does this game offer "without combat" that other good games did less?

Puzzles? You know, like, one of the main aspects of Zelda games?

I can’t think of another game in the same genre with the same amount or variety of environmental puzzles nor dungeon puzzles.

 

[SeraphJan]

Puzzles? You know, like, one of the main aspects of Zelda games?

I can’t think of another game in the same genre with the same amount or variety of environmental puzzles nor dungeon puzzles.

Zelda was almost always a combination of puzzle, combat, dungeons and character progression, I never knew puzzle became the main aspect. By puzzle if you meant the shrine puzzle, I find them pretty repetitive, especially in the case of tests of strength are copy/pasted from each other

 

[Robb]

Zelda was almost always a combination of puzzle, combat, dungeons and character progression, I never knew it became the main aspect. By puzzle if you meant the shrine puzzle, I find them pretty repetitive.

We can agree to disagree I guess. I don’t feel combat has ever been a main staple of Zelda. The main purpose of items you acquire are always to be able to solve puzzles within or outside of dungeons. Even the bosses are designed as puzzles where you have to figure out how to take them down using a specific tool. You can never just slash away with the sword or use any item you want.

Even in Skyward Sword the use of motion controls lead to the developers making enemies more like puzzles where you had to think about directional swings etc. etc. - it was never about making combat itself better/worse per se.

As for puzzles, I mean everything from shrines, to korok puzzles, to environmental puzzles (e.g. Eventide) etc. etc.

 

[SeraphJan]

We can agree to disagree I guess. I don’t feel combat has ever been a main staple of Zelda. The main purpose of items you acquire are always to be able to solve puzzles within or outside of dungeons. Even the bosses are designed as puzzles where you have to figure out how to take them down using a specific tool. You can never just slash away with the sword or use any item you want.

If you find enjoyment in something, that's good for you.

But for me, I prefer a combination of puzzle, combat, dungeon and character progression from Zelda.

If by boss are designed as puzzle you meant figuring out attack pattern and countering it, that's what combat exactly is about in most other games, its just that classic Zelda did it in a minimalistic way (with fewer but more obvious patterns), but the core play loop is identical.

 

[Robb]

If you find enjoyment in something, that's good for you.

But for me, I prefer a combination of puzzle, combat, dungeon and character progression from Zelda.

If by boss are designed as puzzle you meant figuring out attack pattern and countering it, that's what combat exactly is about in most other games, its just that Zelda did it in a minimalistic way, but the core play loop is identical.

Sure, I definitely wouldn’t be as big of a fan of Zelda if it didn’t include clever puzzle designs. One of the main reason I absolutely love ALBW is the way they implemented the painting mechanic and the puzzles they came up with for it - brilliant!


And no that’s not really what I mean. For example, in Aribiters Ground in Twilight Princess you can not beat the boss without using the Spinner. Doesn’t matter if you learn any patterns etc. you have to use a specific item and figure out how to use it to beat the boss.

 

[SeraphJan]

And no that’s not really what I mean. For example, in Aribiters Ground in Twilight Princess you can not beat the boss without using the Spinner. Doesn’t matter if you learn any patterns etc. you have to use a specific item and figure out how to use it to beat the boss.

For me that type of boss is a minus for me, for example the infamous The Bed of Chaos in DS1, it was designed as a puzzle boss, but at least it offers player multiple way of dealing with it.

However most of the boss in Zelda you could defeat them with conventional means

 

[Robb]

However most of the boss in Zelda you could defeat them with conventional means

Like which ones? Outside of BoTW almost all Zelda game bosses rely on the dungeon item being used to beat it.

 

[Touch fuzZy. get BizZay]

You dont take medicine do you

You're all illiterate a-holes!

/jk we coo'

 

[Team Andromeda]

I found the game one of the most boring and empty open-world games ever made. Still is Nintendo and so its get a 10 out of 10 LOL

 

[SeraphJan]

Like which ones? Outside of BoTW almost all Zelda game bosses rely on the dungeon item being used to beat it.

These item are also for combat purposes, like arrow, boomerang, clawshot etc. you do need to figure out pattern just like conventional combat, they are not specifically for "key" purpose only

This is also true for other game, For example in the Original God of war trilogy (which did draw some inspiration from Zelda btw), you do need specific item to defeat certain bosses, like Golden Fleece, Medusa head etc. but they are still conventional combat

IMO, these mechanic adds flavor to the combat, they don't replace the combat, its more fun comparing to beating every boss with a just sword, the game encourage you to use different item.

 

[Robb]

These item are also for combat purposes, like arrow, boomerang, clawshot etc. you do need to figure out pattern just like conventional combat, they are not specifically for "key" purpose only

You can but I’d argue it’s not the main purpose of the items. That’s why some items get so little use in a lot of Zelda games. E.g you almost only use the Ball & Chain in the dungeon in TP, you can use it for combat outside if you want but it’s not very good.

That aside though. Even if you can use the bow, boomerang etc. those won’t help you against most Zelda bosses unless you can figure out the main way to damage/stun the boss, usually using the item that you’ve acquired within the dungeon. You can go in to the Ancient Cistern in SS and waste as many arrows as you want, spam the claw shot, use the boomerang, slash away with your sword - or anything else - to try to beat the boss. You won’t be able to though without using the whip.

 

[SeraphJan]

You can go in to the Ancient Cistern in SS and waste as many arrows as you want, spam the claw shot, use the boomerang, slash away with your sword - or anything else - to try to beat the boss. You won’t be able to though without using the whip.

I see the difference in our perspective now. That's not what I meant, I'm not suggesting using arrows against Koloktos, my point is, even if you use the whip its not an auto win, you still need to fight it as conventional combat.

 

[Robb]

I see the difference in our perspective now. That's not what I meant, I'm not suggesting using arrows against Koloktos, my point is, even if you use the whip its not an auto win, you still need to fight it as conventional combat.

Yeah for sure, but you won’t be able to beat it using conventional combat. Which is why I mean the bosses are more designed as puzzles and the combat itself is secondary.

In most cases the “combat” resolves around running towards the stunned boss and delivering 4-5 slashes with your sword. Then you have to repeat the puzzle sequence again.

 

[SeraphJan]

Yeah for sure, but you won’t be able to beat it using conventional combat. Which is why I mean the bosses are more designed as puzzles and the combat itself is secondary.

In most cases the “combat” resolves around running towards the stunned boss and delivering 4-5 slashes with your sword. Then you have to repeat the puzzle sequence again.

Conventional combat does not mean using the same set of skill, the process of figuring out pattern and choose the right tool is also a part of many boss fight for many different types of games. For example in Megaman games its also true (although its not mandatory but its much easier if you used the right counter), but I wouldn't call them puzzle sequence, I still don't think the boss fight in Zelda are just "using the right key and auto win". Its minimalistic, but its still combat

 

[BlackTron]

I'm glad the game found its stride on PC for you but none of the issues I have with this game come from technical limitations.

I'm curious how the controls got better though, unless you were just using joycons for all those hours. I mean using joycons alone are reason enough not to play it.

 

[Robb]

Conventional combat does not mean using the same set of skill, the process of figuring out pattern and choose the right tool is also a part of many boss fight for many different types of games. For example in Megaman games its also true (although its not mandatory but its much easier if you used the right counter), but I wouldn't call them puzzle sequence, I still don't think the boss fight in Zelda are just "using the right key and auto win". Its minimalist, but its still combat

I can’t speak much for MM since I’ve only played the first game. But as you mention, in that one you could beat all bosses with just a single weapon, so it’s not the same thing.

In Zelda you can’t progress further in the game unless you figure out what to do.

 

[Soodanim]

The game getting takes so hot 6 years after release is a testament to its impact.
Thankfully weapons will still break in the sequel, so we already know what half of the criticism will be about while those actually interested in the game have fun discovering the new stuff.



There’s more weapons than you can carry at any given time and as you said combat is mostly optional, so how in the world the “logical” conclusion to your line of thought was that weapon durability is there “just” to inflate total playtime? As if the game doesn’t have content for dozens of hours already without combat.

That reminds me. I don't think it's a coincidence that in a gameplay video whatshisface showed off combining a branch with a boulder and pointed out the durability upgrade. I'm not a fan of the low durability in the original, but it does seem like they took steps to counteract some of the criticisms of the original without making changes that will upset people who like how it was.

 

[SeraphJan]

I can’t speak much for MM since I’ve only played the first game. But as you mention, in that one you could beat all bosses with just a single weapon, so it’s not the same thing.

In Zelda you can’t progress further in the game unless you figure out what to do.

Most good boss design from other franchise also doesn't encourage using the same weapon or skillset, the only difference is one is mandatory (Like Zelda) one is not (Like Megaman). But both ways they are still combat, that was my point.

 

[Robb]

Most good boss design from other franchise also doesn't encourage using the same weapon or skillset, the only difference is one is mandatory one is not. But both ways they are still combat, that was my point.

Definitely but I wouldn’t call ‘not being able to progress unless you use exactly the right item’ conventional by any means.

My entire argument is that combat in Zelda is far from the main draw of the games, it’s a puzzle/adventure game at heart.

 

[SeraphJan]

Definitely but I wouldn’t call ‘not being able to progress unless you use exactly the right item’ conventional by any means.

We are talking about combat not level design, even if you used the correct item its still combat, like I said, mandatory or not doesn't subtract the combat aspect of it, if its truly what you said, why the game doesn't just designed in a way that use the item and auto win? Why even bother fighting?

My entire argument is that combat in Zelda is far from the main draw of the games, it’s a puzzle/adventure game at heart.

And my entire argument was Zelda is the combination of puzzles, combat, dungeons, and character progression, I mean why introduce all the weapons which is for combat if combat was not a part? Zelda was never a non-combat adventure game to begin with. I'm not denying the puzzle part of Zelda, but I can't agree with it being the only aspect that matters (or like how you put it, the "main draw").

 

[Robb]

mean why introduce all the weapons which is for combat if combat was not a part?

That’s what I mean, the main reason of the items isn’t combat. They can be used for combat, but it’s a secondary thing. I very much doubt the reason for including the Mirror Shield was because it’d be a great item to use in combat. It was probably because they had ideas for puzzles related to reflecting light. I.e. using it for combat was not the main reason for its inclusion.

But If you play Zelda for the combat that’s great I guess. I think there are a lot of other games that does combat a lot better than Zelda though, while Zelda does puzzles a lot better than those.

Anyway, we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.

 

[SeraphJan]

But If you play Zelda for the combat that’s great I guess. I think there are a lot of other games that does combat a lot better than Zelda though, while Zelda does puzzles a lot better than those.

Anyway, we should probably just agree to disagree at this point.

Of course, agree to disagree was my default stance in any discussion.

However its like my fourth time repeating, I don't play Zelda for a single aspect, I play them for a combination of Puzzle, combat, dungeons and character progression. I don't solely play for combat, but I certain enjoy it as equally as I enjoy dungeons and puzzles, which by the way Botw is really lacking too.

 

[Robb]

dungeons which by the way Botw is really lack too.

That I can agree with at least.

 

[hyperbertha]

For me that type of boss is a minus for me, for example the infamous The Bed of Chaos in DS1, it was designed as a puzzle boss, but at least it offers player multiple way of dealing with it.

However most of the boss in Zelda you could defeat them with conventional means

This is just wrong. You want a darks souls style boss in zelda? You want damage sponges? Zelda is based on figuring out the path forward in items, and that should absolutely carry forward to the bosses. Its called good game design. I agree with your bed of chaos assessment. That type of boss did not belong in dark souls, and dark souls bosses do not belong with zelda.

 

[SeraphJan]

This is just wrong. You want a darks souls style boss in zelda? You want damage sponges? Zelda is based on figuring out the path forward in items, and that should absolutely carry forward to the bosses. Its called good game design. I agree with your bed of chaos assessment. That type of boss did not belong in dark souls, and dark souls bosses do not belong with zelda.

When did I ever said I want Dark souls style boss in Zelda? I'm having conversation with Robb and try to find a common ground on what count as "puzzle" boss, and Bed of Chaos was only brought up in the process of trying to understand each other's perspective. Stop putting word in my mouth by taking what I said out of context.

 

[ManaByte]

He bought BOTW twice, hated it. Then he pirated it and loved it.

 

[Ulysses 31]

He bought BOTW twice, hated it. Then he pirated it and loved it.

I played through on normal and master quest mode on switch and the CEMU version in 4K and 60+ fps with all bells and whistles is tempting me to play through it again.

 

[Lasha]

I would like to know what content does this game offer "without combat" that other good games did less?

Repetitive and short dungeon? Reskinned boss? No narrative beside lore? Barren world? Repetitive cooking and weapon grinding? None of these I consider impactful

What does this game offer beside "Look what I did with that physic, am I awesome"?

I don't have problem with what other people prefer, but you are the one questioning my preference here. But from what I see, you are not really interested in your own question, since I've already stated I prefer ALBW style Zelda in my previous comment.

So if someone criticize the game without finishing it, its "How did you know if you haven't even completed yet", but if someone did finished it, its "why bother completing it if you don't like it", its like no one are allowed to express their negative reception regarding your favorite game.

---------------------------------

Most often than not when someone expressed legitimate criticism about the game, all you people did are "oh the game sold 30M", "oh the game had a 97 score" " so it must be you are the problem.

All us people? Grow thicker skin. I asked you to elaborate what you mean because you've twice expressed an opinion that I found unclear. All games are a waste of time at some level. All games you don't enjoy playing are a waste of time by definition. I wanted to know why you think so. Terms like "respect your time" and "impactful" are also poorly descriptive. You have answered my original question in a highly rude way so thanks.

 

[SeraphJan]

All us people? Grow thicker skin. I asked you to elaborate what you mean because you've twice expressed an opinion that I found unclear. All games are a waste of time at some level. All games you don't enjoy playing are a waste of time by definition. I wanted to know why you think so. Terms like "respect your time" and "impactful" are also poorly descriptive. You have answered my original question in a highly rude way so thanks.

Although the last part of my comment was not directed against you, but you didn't necessarily looking for a discussion in a polite way either, so no thanks

 

[Majukun]

i enjoyed it on wii u of all things, but i have an high tolerance for junky hardware, I played way worse

 

[Lasha]

Although the last part of my comment was not directed against you, but you didn't necessarily looking for a discussion in a polite way either, so no thanks

I was completely sincere. I feel pity that you have your defenses so high that you build your own windmills to tilt with.

 

[SeraphJan]

I was completely sincere. I feel pity that you have your defenses so high that you build your own windmills to tilt with.

And my defense being high is your presumption, I'm more annoyed than feeling the need of being defensive.

If you were sincere, then my apology (Which is also sincere, on internet, I don't see body language and tone, and I often get these type of questions that you've asked in a bad faith baiting manner when many instance Botw is brought up), however if you are interested on my take on video game, I don't think this is the right thread. Since you mention you've seen me multiple times, I did give some clear description about my preference in this thread.

 

[TheTony316]

tried to like it but it isn't for me. Vast empty open worlds and survival games aren't my thing.

 

[KuraiShidosha]

I ONLY experienced it at 5120x2880 with color and contrast shaders to clean up the visuals, and I felt the game was the most overrated shit ever released by Nintendo. The map design, the gameplay, the story, the soundtrack, the enemy variety, no fucking instrument, no sense of progression beyond the plateau when you get all the runes, no real dungeons, pathetic boss fights. It's just an embarrassingly bad game in comparison to earlier Zelda titles. People only like it because they can take it with them on the commute to work so their lives feel a little less empty.

 

[Impotaku]

From twilight princess onward i have become really burnt out on the mainline series of zelda games the only one in recent years i played was links awakening remaster because i will eternally love that game i used to replay them all like crazy to the point now i can never return to oot as i'm sick of every inch of the world but seeing as the version of botw in japan that has all the dlc built into the cart had come back in stock at it's normal retail price i finally gave in against my judgement of past games botw is so radically different to the others that i was willing to give it a chance hell millions can't be wrong can they.

So far 45 hours have gone by in a flash as a i slowly made my way through the world not knowing what was around each corner, the complaints of it been barren are kind of the point the whole world is the aftermath of gannon wiping nearly everything out it's a world recovering 100 years later from all the destruction & nature kind of taking back over i love that the music does not overpower the wonderful sounds of just walking through the terrain & hearing all the animal noises. So far i decided the main task would be to restore my map so i can see where i'm going i love how you are not allowed to see everything apart from what you can make out with your own eyes till you find the towers and activate them it gives you a good incentive to try and head for them. I'm not going for too much of the mainline story quests till i have savoured all the side quests & the ton of DLC added stuff. Have done the elephant guardian so far as i wanted to try one of the "dungeons" which was a bit weird but in a good way a compact living dungeon is something i hadn't seen before.

Last night was the highlight of hilarity for me i was making my way through a narrow canyon and it was raining hard then the thunder started i had no idea that anything metal you were holding would make you a target for lightning hitting you i had already been fried once till i figured it out, further into the canyon i was jumped by three of those tallish moblin looking things and they were all carrying metal weapons i didn't realise they were under the same rules as i was as i watched them starting to spark so i just ran around waiting to see what would happen & then boom lightning struck totally frying 2 of them and the grass around them caught fire so i ran over looted their sorry asses stole their weapons & sailed out of the canyon on the updraft that the fire had created it was so much fun the world physics are something else soo many tiny details i keep overlooking that i haven't seen done before. Got bonked on the head by a tree earlier as lightning hit it and knocked it over i took damage but was more impressed that it kind of mimicks real life although i would have been more pissed if it had totally taken all my hearts.

Had no idea you could ride other animals either besides horses, saw a chonky looking bear in a forest i snuck over as i wanted to see if you could sneak up and do a sneakstrike before i knew it i had accidentally jumped on it's back & was riding the thing as it was trying to throw me off lol. Managed to calm it enough to have it as a chonky horse however i have no idea if you can keep him as i got off a bit later and he ran off. So far the game has surprised me with the fact it no longer uses all the same rules from past zelda games and shakes things up a bit as it's won me over. Probaby wont be picking up totk for quite a while as don't think it's a good idea to binge on these newer takes on zelda or i'll be back at the same point as i was with the older games.

 

[ADiTAR]

Weapons breaking in 4K is mind blowing.

The inability to climb during rain is unparalleled in 60FPS.

Who knew? it was the graphics that were the problem.

 

[BlackTron]

i enjoyed it on wii u of all things, but i have an high tolerance for junky hardware, I played way worse

I played it on both Wii U and Switch. The experience is really almost identical, the main reason to change was getting a pro controller with a gyroscope in it.