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If anyone cares Metzen on the WoW lore "snafu"

Apprently the lore changes to fit teh Eredan looking Draenie cause a big uproar with WoW lore fans, shortly after the new race was announced blue (the blizzard community managers) posted how they realise the issues with the new lore and after the E3 they would iron things out.

Today

http://12.129.217.203/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=8333849&p=1&tmp=1#post8333849

Hey y'all,

I wanted to drop you guys a line and explain whats up with some of the recent changes you've all been seeing in the lore and specifically address your concerns about the draenei and their revised backstory. Bear with me here, I tend to get a bit wordy as I build up steam.

Anyway, here we go:

Hit #1: Lore Train-Wreck
Right To be totally up-front with you guys, it's my bad, straight up. The obvious lore contradiction with Sargeras and his encounter with the eredar was clearly documented in the Warcraft III manual. I wrote those bits about four years ago, and to be totally honest, I simply forgot. Genius, right? With my excitement to get the draenei up to speed and root them more firmly in the setting, I forgot to do my homework and go back over my earlier writing. I can assure you, no ones more crushed about this mistake than I am. Ive spent the last few days kicking my own ass over this one. Sucks to fail. It may not always be evident, but we take this story stuff really seriously at Blizzard. It's been one of my personal missions at this company to maintain a high level of integrity throughout the Warcraft game setting (all of them, actually) and I think weve done a pretty decent job of upholding the continuity over the years.

I think it's important to note that world building is far bigger than just storytelling, and it requires (in my humble opinion) a certain amount of flexibility. Sometimes you need to expand certain ideas or retcon whole sections of continuity to broaden the scope and accessibility of your setting. There are a good number of these types of situations already (like totally revising our timeline, suggesting trolls were the progenitors of all elven subspecies, etc. there's a hundred other examples). To make an omelet, ya need to break a few eggs, and WoWs one big omelet.

The trouble is, this has become a pretty big setting. There are literally thousands of characters, hundreds of locations, and all sorts of creatures, items, and plot themes that all define this world. As you can imagine, it's a lot to police. Sometimes things do fall through the cracks, mistakes get made and were forced to scramble to come up with clever solutions to continuity errors. (Hakkar, anyone? ). You not only have me jamming ideas, but a ninja team of quest designers, an army of freelance RPG writers, and a commando squad of red-hot novelists who are all involved in fleshing out the lore and making it more than just wallpaper on a game.

I'm explaining all this not to excuse this particular mistake, but to give you some understanding of how the mistake was made. I've read a fair amount of posts over the past few days and I know theres a lot of confusion and frustration surrounding the whole eredar/draenei train wreck. Believe me, I know exactly how you feel. At the end of the day, we're all just a bunch of geeky fanboys and fangirls, and we all get pretty fired up when people start screwing with the worlds we love. If anything, all of the venting and creative suggestions Ive seen over the past few days have reinforced for me the fact that you guys really do care about this world and its troubled denizens.

While I can't promise that these types of mistakes will never happen again, I do want to state clearly that we take the responsibility of crafting and maintaining this lore very seriously. You all pay good money to adventure through this world month by month, and you deserve the best we can give.

Dont lose faith well do ya proud!

Hit #2: So Whats the Story, Blizzard?
Ok, so what's the real scoop behind the eredar/draenei story then? At this point, even though the NEW lore directly counters the Warcraft III manual, we're still going to run with it. There are a lot of reasons for this, not the least of which is that I think it's far stronger than what I crafted back in the day. The eredar were not necessarily all evil. Sargeras did come to them and tempt them with power. They did NOT make Sargeras crazy. This gives the eredar more dimensionality and roots the draenei to a key moment in Burning Legion history.

We've also woven all of this new lore into an upcoming novel by Christie Golden (author of Lord of the Clans) that depicts the draeneis escape from Argus and the RISE OF THE HORDE on Draenor. The book DOMINATES, and you're going to really dig it. Durotan, Nerzhul, Guldan, Doomhammer, Hellscream, Kiljaeden, Velen; this story is the one youve been waiting for. I'm getting geeked up just thinking about it.

However, this new lore does leave a large hole. How did Sargeras go nuts? What drove him to fall and begin his Burning Crusade? I dont know yet. It will be his encounter with some evil race (who dares me to use Old Gods???), but it wont be the eredar.

I'll chew on this. Maybe we'll solve this by the end of the expansion. See this is that flexibility stuff I was talking about earlier

Hit #3: World of Spacecrafts
Another concern I've been hearing about is the inclusion of certain sci-fi elements into the setting. I appreciate that this stuff is pretty far out, but thats the whole point: Outland, and the greater universe out there in the void, ARE far out. Change is always difficult. I remember people getting really upset about dwarves with guns, steam-tech, Gnomeregan as a hi-tech city many people had a hard time rolling with those technologies in a fantasy setting. But I ask you all can you imagine WoW without those elements now?

We're definitely throwing some new concepts at you all, but I'm very confident that when youre able to see these elements in context, over the course of the game play, you'll understand why we've been so excited to include them.

To be clear, were not talking about having the Millennium Falcon cruising around the Twisting Nether (Im certain there would be some legal issues there, to say the least). The draenei nether-ship you've been hearing about is far more than it seems. Its part of a larger dimension-traveling fortress called Tempest Keep that essentially teleports through alternate realities. It doesnt bank and roll or shoot proton torpedoes (not yet, anyway).

While we will be introducing a number of naaru technologies (like this ship, for instance), we're not planning on going hog-wild. Conceptual balance is everything. For those of you who are fearful of seeing jet-packs and laser pistols filling up the AH, never fear. If you did see them, theyd likely be goblin engineered and get your character killed anyway.

Hit #4: Blood Elves Sure Get Around
I also saw some strangeness about the apparent contradiction of how the blood elves could have sabotaged the draenei nether-ship since they're all holed up in QuelThalas. Remember, there are twisted blood elves in Outland who have been there since TFT campaign. It's those creepy elves who sabotaged the draeneis flight to Azeroth.

I'd love to elaborate on this further, but I'm afraid I'd spoil your appetites for dessert.

In conclusion, I just want to reiterate that we do take these continuity errors very seriously.
It's very important to me that you all feel you can trust us as developers and know that were out to build a world thats worthy of your time and your passion.

Thanks for bearing with me here. See y'all on the other side of the Portal!

Chris Metzen
5-12-06

Personally I really didn't mind the changes, it's a videogame after all not shakesphere; but it did cause a huge backlash. Just an FYI for people who don't visit the WoW.com boards...which I don't blame you if you don't, it's like going into romper room just before diaper change.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
I'm on a RP server, and I don't give a flying fuck about some lore inconsistencies. Some people take that stuff way too seriously.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Suburban Cowboy said:
the whole night elf thing is confusing. So they come from trolls, transformed into naga, and now there are also evil elves?


ok...

Just an offshoot from the night elves. They were a group of elves who didn't want to give up magic. I guess over the course of time their appearance changed slightly.
 
Pimpbaa said:
I'm on a RP server, and I don't give a flying fuck about some lore inconsistencies. Some people take that stuff way too seriously.

the ones who do are fat or pimples that had a human breakout
 
Pimpbaa said:
I'm on a RP server, and I don't give a flying fuck about some lore inconsistencies. Some people take that stuff way too seriously.

I don't care about it either, hell i don't even play WoW, but when a RPG game fails to get its own story right...its just a sad failure on their part. Pretty embarassing I would imagine.
 

Dedalus

Member
Pimpbaa said:
I'm on a RP server, and I don't give a flying fuck about some lore inconsistencies. Some people take that stuff way too seriously.


Quoted for motherfucking truth.


Used to play WoW. Absolutely loved the game but I got so damn sick of the whinging, spiteful unappreciative little wankers who played the game and just trolled the forums making life awkward for everyone involved.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Teh Hamburglar said:
I don't care about it either, hell i don't even play WoW, but when a RPG game fails to get its own story right...its just a sad failure on their part. Pretty embarassing I would imagine.

Oh no doubt. But nothing to for wow gamers to get all in a uproar about. Personally I'm pissed that they are adding new races but no new classes.
 

fronn

Member
For the Draenei explaination, they should have just put "SPACE SHIPS" in large letters instead of the backstory they gave. As it stands I can't help but think Scientology when I think about the new Draenei story.

There is one good thing about the Draenei, apparently Dahler Mendi was on their spaceship and taught them all how to dance. It's fantastic, the dance.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
I was gonna post saying "god who cares" but there is a monthly fee involved in that shit, my concerns about anyone willing to pay subscriptions for 1 game everymonth aside, if they are charging they should be a bit more pro than that.
 

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
Suburban Cowboy said:
the whole night elf thing is confusing. So they come from trolls, transformed into naga, and now there are also evil elves?


ok...

Well there is alot of story behind the nightelf, naga, and highborne/blood elves. NE's were the first elves of any kind, decendants of a troll or troll like species that settled near the first well of eternity. Over time it changed them and also gave them power and immortality. The well was put on azeroth by the titans who formed the land and the well was meant to be a source of life. The new NE society flourished and named a queen Azhara i believe her name was...or maybe is Nazjatar...its not all that important. She became obsessed with the magic from the well and a small amt of NE's were dedicated to growing in power and mastering magic these were called the Quel'dorei (high elves eventually). Other NE's embraced elune and the earth, taking up druidism and allied themselves with Cenarius and the dragonflights.

The power of the Quel Dorei grew so much it gained the attention of the burning legion, sargeras tricks the queen, the legion comes to the world and the war of ancients commences. Blah blah blah big battles famous heros like Illidan, Tyrande, Malfurion do their thing. Legion is ultimately defeated but the well of eternity is deystoryed in the process save for a few vials procured by Illidan.

Azhara and many of her quel dorei that defended the well with their lives were cast into the sea which is why the zone azhara in game looks like there was a city on teh coast that was the old kingdom. When the well collapsed that is how we now have 2 continents instead of one. Now who or what changed them into naga is still debateable some say it was an old god but we do know the naga are the Quel Dorei that fell into the ocean during the sundering.

Now to the surviving NE's some of the Quel'dorei are still there and have contempt for druidism and wish to continue their magics. Of course since a druid Malfurion is the hero of the war he bans arcane and demonic magic and so the Quel'Dorei leave Kalimdor lead by a Sunstrider (Kael's ancestor). Blah blah blah they land in northern azeroth clear out some trolls and found Quel Thalas. They use magic to shield their nation so that demons will not discover that they have another well of eternity this time a sunwell. Over time their skin pigment changed and they no longer bore resemblance to their NE' breathren.

Fastfoward to WC3 Quel ' thalas is sacked by arthas most slaughtered the sunwell corrupeted to bring kel thuzad back to life. The last survivng Sunstrider and heir to the throne is in Dalaran head of the council of guardians. He returns to Quel Thalas and rounds up survivors. In honor of their fallen brethren they call themselves Blood elves. The only thing different between a blood elf and a high elf is they followed Kael and chose to honor the allaince with the nations of arathor (lordaeron stormguarde etc). However they noticed that they were sickly and lethargic because they no longer had their sunwell. Illidan understood their hunger because he too had the addiction to magic, and that is why he saved some of the first well of eternity and planted another one in hyjal from WC3. So he convinces Kael follow him to outland along with Lady Vash Azhara's second in command from the first NE's kingdom,Illidan promisses demonic magic to fufill his peoples hunger. And so just like the Quel Dorei (Naga) before them they have come to a point where they will do anything for magic and power.

Now why they are considered evil now is probably from the allaince point of view. The forsaken especially slyvanas knows kael very well. The orcs dont trust them because of their thirst for magic was much like their bloodlust when they were enslaved by demons. Most human nations dont really know what happened in TFT campaign and how they were treated and their situation all they know is they broke the allaince. Now the eradar situation we will just have to wait and see what unfolds with the sabatoge.
 

Grifter

Member
Pimpbaa said:
Oh no doubt. But nothing to for wow gamers to get all in a uproar about. Personally I'm pissed that they are adding new races but no new classes.

I can understand their hesitancy since they have yet to fix the classes already in the game.
 
Dedalus said:
Quoted for motherfucking truth.


Used to play WoW. Absolutely loved the game but I got so damn sick of the whinging, spiteful unappreciative little wankers who played the game and just trolled the forums making life awkward for everyone involved.


yup thats whats killing it for me, I've delt with it just not paying attention to people but when it get to the poitn where it's either deal witht he emo kids "omg one of 4 warriors in the raid died....it's a wipe" and the crap you deal with on the message board in game. It's not worth it. I'm still playing cause I have RL friends that play and a few who are going to start. WoW easily has the WORST community I ever experienced on a mmorpg and yes I played SWG.

I actually called it World of OpaAgecraft to one of my friends that posts here and is thinking about playing WoW.

"I don't care about it either, hell i don't even play WoW, but when a RPG game fails to get its own story right...its just a sad failure on their part. Pretty embarassing I would imagine."

Oh no doubt. But nothing to for wow gamers to get all in a uproar about. Personally I'm pissed that they are adding new races but no new classes.

yeah I'm kinda disappointed no new classes, by now I got the classes I really liked to 60 and have tried many times the ones I wasn't to thrilled at. oh well. The Dreanie's gun/x-bow animation might be worth it to be a hunter for the 5th time.

Also I agree it's kinda embrassing but not the end of the world so many videogames have stories that have been meesed up but it doesn't make the great games any worse.
 

Pimpbaa

Member
Grifter said:
I can understand their hesitancy since they have yet to fix the classes already in the game.

Yeah but laziness or incompetency is really not a good excuse. I swear they must only have like a handful of people actually working on new content and fixing issues. The level 60 to 70 content should be cool, but new races will only be fun for a while because you'll outlevel the new land for the new races in no time and then it's back to the same old shit you've played already (until you get to 60 so you can do the new 60 to 70 stuff). New classes would at least give a new way to play the game.
 
Pimpbaa said:
Yeah but laziness or incompetency is really not a good excuse. I swear they must only have like a handful of people actually working on new content and fixing issues. The level 60 to 70 content should be cool, but new races will only be fun for a while because you'll outlevel the new land for the new races in no time and then it's back to the same old shit you've played already. New classes would at least give a new way to play the game.

qft

this is the reason I've been dragging my feetplaying horde cause once the expansion comes it'll be something "newer" to do after lvl 20 if I decide I want to be a Blood Elf.
 
The best part about this nonsense is one of the coolest ytmnds in ages.

http://lorelol.ytmnd.com/

It was funny at first, and fucking hysterical after I found out it was the truth.

Edit: Oh and new classes = new way to handle itemization, which they obviously don't want to address. I'd expect hero classes before any new outright ones.
 

fallout

Member
Grifter said:
I can understand their hesitancy since they have yet to fix the classes already in the game.
Well, if they continue "fixing" it, we'll all be playing the same class, anyway.
 
The game doesn't need new classes, to be honest. A lot of people would like "something different", for sure, but balancing classes is a real nightmare and involves balacing all sorts of things:

1) PvP-skills/talents, environments, approximate potency, general PvP role, etc.
2) PvE-encounters, environments, role, talents, "groupability", effect on other classes, etc.
3) itemization - poor itemization can kill a class. Itemization that is too good can overpower it.

etc, etc, etc.

Most WoW classes outside of raid group PvE (where classes are greatly distilled into more focused, singular roles) have a pretty diverse skillset and, when matched with talents, play a good bit differently to boot. Far better to differentiate playstlyes via gear and talents in existing classes than to create whole new ones at this point in the game IMO.
 

Grifter

Member
fallout said:
Well, if they continue "fixing" it, we'll all be playing the same class, anyway.

I said fix, not balance. As in bugs. Balance would be nice too.

Yeah but laziness or incompetency is really not a good excuse. I swear they must only have like a handful of people actually working on new content and fixing issues. The level 60 to 70 content should be cool, but new races will only be fun for a while because you'll outlevel the new land for the new races in no time and then it's back to the same old shit you've played already (until you get to 60 so you can do the new 60 to 70 stuff). New classes would at least give a new way to play the game.

I agree about wanting new ways to play (tho I quit recently) but I find that the classes already in the game are very diverse and have a ton of skills and specs to deal with. Maybe you've tried them all but I just took my time with a few classes and enjoyed the change in styles. I haven't played an RPG with as many abilities per class and I respect WoW for making most of them useful and fun. We have yet to see how the talent tree updates in the expansion will affect the game too.

As for the WoW community, I found a mature but hardcore raiding guild and never really had to worry about the kiddies again.
 
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