Or what this guy said. Brilliant.
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If Mass Effect 4 were to bring back "uncharted worlds", how would you have them?
- Thread starter EatChildren
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R_thanatos
Member
i'd take C because overlord i think had a great idea that was dumbed down by the horrible graphics.
Give me overlord -like map With drop-off on several planets ( as part of quests or not ) and i would like it if the graphics were improved.
Give me overlord -like map With drop-off on several planets ( as part of quests or not ) and i would like it if the graphics were improved.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Fairly polarised opinions on scope, though most seem to want some sizable landmass to make up uncharted works. Like Overlord.
Yeah, what he said...
Also though they can't forget to make ships and space stations a priority. They were actually fairly good about stations in ME2/3 compared to 1, but finding derelict ships in ME1 was the best, the few that were in ME2/3 felt too over produced compared to ME1. Walking around with barely any functioning lights on with tons of giant crates and shit everywhere and then all of a sudden some guy pops out and they're throwing biotics and you're firing off like a mad man. Or out of nowhere the entire ship is filled with husks. So good.
ME2/3 kind of lost that atmosphere that was present in ME1, where you entered a building or ship or even a planet and you just got this "I probably shouldn't be here" feeling. This cold dead atmosphere. Just compare the UNC: Derelict Freighter to the N7: MSV Strontium. One is dark and sketchy, you don't know what the hell is going on and then the other is bright lights and fully functioning like everythings cool but there just happens to be some mercs inside being douches.
IcyBlueStrawberry
Member
I prefer the planet exploration system from ME 1.
Yeah, the missions were simple and the bases were all very similar, but not even the Mako controls could ruin the coolness factor of looking at a beautiful alien sky.
Yeah, the missions were simple and the bases were all very similar, but not even the Mako controls could ruin the coolness factor of looking at a beautiful alien sky.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Mass Effect 1 style, absolutely.
A huge part of the series was lost after the removal of the Mako IMO. Sure the thing could've controlled better, sure the planets could've had more than like 3 kinds of objectives, but it has so much potential. What the uncharted planets brought to ME has never been replaced after their removal. That sense of exploration, that sense of isolation, that sense of vastness; all of these were essential to what the Mass Effect 1 experience was as a whole. They were the ultimate opposites of locations like the Citadel and the clubs you'd visit. They weren't perfect, but it should've been the first step.
To improve them, there simply needs to be more variety. Terrain generating system and like 20 different skyboxes that can be manipulated in all sorts of ways from color to major natural satellite locations, to the number and location of suns, and day or night time settings. Then you can layer a weather system on top of that with different levels of rain, different scale hurricanes, sandstorms, incredible heat, sub-zero cold, different levels of snow, ash in the air from continuous volcanic activity, stable weather, etc. This could make it easier to create unique planets with a variety of looks and sounds without having to meticulously hand craft every single uncharted world, especially since major plot and side mission important locations will be receiving the majority of those manhours.
The next step would be the activities on the uncharted worlds. This I think should be more random for each playthrough. Have many different different kinds of relatively small activities made- resource gathering, artifact locations, saving stranded travelers sending out an SOS, fighting off raiders from a small base, ambushes, major alien creature attacks (like the Thresher Maw), etc.- none of which would be explicitly chosen by Bioware but assigned randomly for each player during each playthrough after the planet is scanned for activity. So while the worlds are the same for each player, activities could be vastly different from a combination of small menial tasks, to a search and rescue interrupted by an enemy raid, to a enemy raid interrupted by a creature attack, to a creature attack interrupted by a second creature attack, to a simple defunct laboratory or derelict ship with nothing in it but a still functioning beacon for help that nobody received in time. The only developer's touch you feel here is them making sure all the systems work together correctly. Aside from that, many things could happen, some things could happen, nothing could happen. Unpredictability and chaos, thus is the nature of space.
Through all this the Mako should be present and become its own character again and that electronic ambient score should come back in full force adding to the atmosphere. Uncharted worlds should totally still be "third their" missions in regards to plot importance, but they should be not be treated like or thought as filler. They can provide an important mood to the title simply impossible to achieve in high traffic areas, and beautiful/hostile visuals, both of which can give the universe itself it's own personality. It can make the player feel small and insignificant. Not everything is made and scripted for us, and not everything is in our control.
A huge part of the series was lost after the removal of the Mako IMO. Sure the thing could've controlled better, sure the planets could've had more than like 3 kinds of objectives, but it has so much potential. What the uncharted planets brought to ME has never been replaced after their removal. That sense of exploration, that sense of isolation, that sense of vastness; all of these were essential to what the Mass Effect 1 experience was as a whole. They were the ultimate opposites of locations like the Citadel and the clubs you'd visit. They weren't perfect, but it should've been the first step.
To improve them, there simply needs to be more variety. Terrain generating system and like 20 different skyboxes that can be manipulated in all sorts of ways from color to major natural satellite locations, to the number and location of suns, and day or night time settings. Then you can layer a weather system on top of that with different levels of rain, different scale hurricanes, sandstorms, incredible heat, sub-zero cold, different levels of snow, ash in the air from continuous volcanic activity, stable weather, etc. This could make it easier to create unique planets with a variety of looks and sounds without having to meticulously hand craft every single uncharted world, especially since major plot and side mission important locations will be receiving the majority of those manhours.
The next step would be the activities on the uncharted worlds. This I think should be more random for each playthrough. Have many different different kinds of relatively small activities made- resource gathering, artifact locations, saving stranded travelers sending out an SOS, fighting off raiders from a small base, ambushes, major alien creature attacks (like the Thresher Maw), etc.- none of which would be explicitly chosen by Bioware but assigned randomly for each player during each playthrough after the planet is scanned for activity. So while the worlds are the same for each player, activities could be vastly different from a combination of small menial tasks, to a search and rescue interrupted by an enemy raid, to a enemy raid interrupted by a creature attack, to a creature attack interrupted by a second creature attack, to a simple defunct laboratory or derelict ship with nothing in it but a still functioning beacon for help that nobody received in time. The only developer's touch you feel here is them making sure all the systems work together correctly. Aside from that, many things could happen, some things could happen, nothing could happen. Unpredictability and chaos, thus is the nature of space.
Through all this the Mako should be present and become its own character again and that electronic ambient score should come back in full force adding to the atmosphere. Uncharted worlds should totally still be "third their" missions in regards to plot importance, but they should be not be treated like or thought as filler. They can provide an important mood to the title simply impossible to achieve in high traffic areas, and beautiful/hostile visuals, both of which can give the universe itself it's own personality. It can make the player feel small and insignificant. Not everything is made and scripted for us, and not everything is in our control.
Night Hunter
Banned
![95.gif](http://replygif.net/i/95.gif"]http://replygif.net/i/95.gif)
This.
I'd prefer the mix ala Overlord, but veering closer to A rather than B. ME2 was seriously disappointing with how linear missions and dungeons were, so I'd like everything to feel a bit more open and loose in general. I guess that middle ground would be more like a few, denser versions of Elder Scrolls maps: you might have a settlement to visit, and you'd have a few UNIQUE dungeon-type areas (at a minimum new layouts but same assets), and that's that. And of course there'd be fewer as those need to be more carefully designed.
HOWEVER, I think they could embrace 1 style fully as a pure mining thing: it's amazing to see all of those worlds, but in 99% of cases there really wasn't going to be anything to do on them. So you can create your amazing skybox, (procedurally generated) alien vista, and just let us drive a vehicle around to mine at spots. Just make sure we can get through them fast and not waste most of the game there to build up money or resources to build equipment.
HOWEVER, I think they could embrace 1 style fully as a pure mining thing: it's amazing to see all of those worlds, but in 99% of cases there really wasn't going to be anything to do on them. So you can create your amazing skybox, (procedurally generated) alien vista, and just let us drive a vehicle around to mine at spots. Just make sure we can get through them fast and not waste most of the game there to build up money or resources to build equipment.
Amon-Lau
Member
Pretty much this, had the best time playing the first one with all those worlds to explore the most fun I had in a ME game~
TheUnsunghero26
Member
ME1 style. I loved randomly finding a Prothean pyramid for the first time.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Bring back the Mako ?
Bring back the Mako bioware.
Bring back the Mako bioware.
DracoBlade
Member
ME1 but with procedurally generated scenarios/content (ala Elder Scrolls for ex.)
The thing I miss the most from 1 in 2 & even more so in 3 is the exploration aspect. Sure it was there in 2 but the false sense of urgency kept on trying to push you forward (and lock you into missions and certain actions against your will at times) but 3's whole idea of picking up missions by eavesdropping was just stupid let alone the fact when you get to the planet you just bloody scan it and have to treck back to where you were earwigging and randomly go up to a total stranger and say "Oh hey I heard you want this. Bye!".
Only sour point for 1's exploration worlds was the terrain definitely wasn't designed very well (the Mako controlled fine ok!) so it always felt like you were trying to glitch out of the map to get to the only route to the marker. The Firewalker pack wasn't really what I hoped it would be but the Hammerhead really had a nifty traversal and combat mechanic that was such a shame not used in 3. Some of the best story lines were in the off piste missions in 1 and 2 had the other marker vision which was a great bit of foreshadowing.
A combination of those three aspects would be perfect with me.
Only sour point for 1's exploration worlds was the terrain definitely wasn't designed very well (the Mako controlled fine ok!) so it always felt like you were trying to glitch out of the map to get to the only route to the marker. The Firewalker pack wasn't really what I hoped it would be but the Hammerhead really had a nifty traversal and combat mechanic that was such a shame not used in 3. Some of the best story lines were in the off piste missions in 1 and 2 had the other marker vision which was a great bit of foreshadowing.
A combination of those three aspects would be perfect with me.
I really liked Feros in the first game,
That feeling of Geth all around you, nobody responding to your hails or contacting the Normandy... it was a haunting experience at first. I liked exploring the place, it felt very desolate compared to most world. And when you finally arrive at the human colony, things aren't getting any better. People lost hope, want to kill themselves etc
That feeling of Geth all around you, nobody responding to your hails or contacting the Normandy... it was a haunting experience at first. I liked exploring the place, it felt very desolate compared to most world. And when you finally arrive at the human colony, things aren't getting any better. People lost hope, want to kill themselves etc
I'd definitely go this way, but I think another layer should be added there, and that's the sense of urgency, something lacking in many RPGs. It depends on the scale of what the main character will affect in the world and how important he/she will be, but I want to see more weight in your decisions to do side quests. If you have one main mission that's really big and, before doing that, you go do a side quest, then maybe you start to lose something on the main mission. Let's say you have to retrieve something very important, but a group of enemies is also looking for it. If you go do the side quest, they'll be way ahead of you and you'd need to carefully make a new plan to overcome them.
But also, I don't like the way Mass Effect 3 tried that, when
many side quests from the Citadel would fail if you didn't finish them before the explosion.
Mass Effect
Member
I think this is a far better description than I could ever give. Yes, this would be perfect. Well, except maybe more tier 1 and 2 planets and less tier 3.
Though I will add that I really hope they keep the relic/anomalies of Mass Effect 1. Reading those little descriptions of Dilinaga's writings, League of One medallions, Prothean relics, etc. was extremely interesting to me and added to the feel of the isolated frontier vibe ME1 had. 3 definitely lacked that "mysterious galaxy" feel because of it's extreme linearity.
I think Mass Effect 1 gave us a far greater sense of mystery during exploration. I was kinda hoping the sequel(s) would improve on the "nothingness" many explorable worlds had, because the ability to explore pretty much every world was fantastic. It felt much more thematic and fitting than doing these "highly polished" short missions in the sequels. All of them were different, sure, but I couldn't help but feel I was just shooting bad guys while running through corridors over and over instead of exploring the world outside.
The closed environments in the sequels had a lot more polish, but less freedom in that regard. So yeah, I'm kinda hoping they can give us back that mysterious galaxy feeling from the original. I want more open world stuff, less straightforward missions in closed environments. Dragon Age III looks like it has a pretty amazing open world, I don't know if that is thanks to the new frostbite engine, but I do hope the Mass Effect team will be able to deliver a similar experience... although I do understand they have to cover multiple worlds and not just one big zone.
The closed environments in the sequels had a lot more polish, but less freedom in that regard. So yeah, I'm kinda hoping they can give us back that mysterious galaxy feeling from the original. I want more open world stuff, less straightforward missions in closed environments. Dragon Age III looks like it has a pretty amazing open world, I don't know if that is thanks to the new frostbite engine, but I do hope the Mass Effect team will be able to deliver a similar experience... although I do understand they have to cover multiple worlds and not just one big zone.
They're uncharted worldds for a reason.
Is there supposed to be a thriving civilization on them?
Succinct Verbosity
Member
It's perfectly possible to have a world that's uncharted by the Systems Alliance and still have a native population that pre-dates space exploration. In fact, it'd be kind of cool to partake in an undercover mission in a post-industrial society.
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
When I first made landfall with the Mako, I got very strong Star Control II vibes, and it fit with the tone of ME. Lone ship crawling the galaxy, talking to alien races to learn more about the situation, improving your weapons, exploring a planet's surface to maybe (or maybe not) discover some neat loot, fighting against an oppressive alien force that no one seemed to understand (or acknowledge).
While Mass Effect 2 was fantastic, I was personally hoping for more of the above when the sequel was announced. Plenty of people love ME2. Heck, I love it too, but that ethereal promise of a full 3D spiritual successor to Star Control II stuck in my brain and I've always liked the first ME as a result.
To the topic, I would like a return to the above. Uncharted worlds by themselves could easily just be passed off as throwaway content and no one would care. However, if the full tone of the game was about exploration and reaching out to other races and slowly building up your resources and trying to find codex entries, I'd love it.
While Mass Effect 2 was fantastic, I was personally hoping for more of the above when the sequel was announced. Plenty of people love ME2. Heck, I love it too, but that ethereal promise of a full 3D spiritual successor to Star Control II stuck in my brain and I've always liked the first ME as a result.
To the topic, I would like a return to the above. Uncharted worlds by themselves could easily just be passed off as throwaway content and no one would care. However, if the full tone of the game was about exploration and reaching out to other races and slowly building up your resources and trying to find codex entries, I'd love it.
I hardily agree with this and it's something I've been advocating in games for a while and particularly with BioWare titles like the upcoming Dragon Age game.
Failure and inaction needs to be an option in these games where you have "choices and consequences." The problem is that many people view this as being: you fail=you lose content, which is bad game design 9/10. Instead failure should simply lead to a different, though often less desirable, outcome. Not a game over and not a reduction in content.
Obviously this is greatly limited by production time and budget since it can add a whole new layer of variables to take into account, but it should still be used when appropriate. The easiest and least game breaking way to do it is to simply make things a little harder and different. So with your example of a main mission and the player going off to do a bunch of side missions before hand, when they do arrive at the main mission instead of a dozen enemies present, theres a dozen and half and maybe they have some traps or some turrets set up in an earlier room or area than they would have.
The other more interesting way is say if you were supposed to go collect some relic and you go do some other side mission first and instead of getting there on time and having to duke it out with your adversaries to claim it, they'll have already gotten it and now you have to chase them down and get it back but at a clear disadvantage. The outcome is the same, you fighting with the enemy to claim the relic, but the way it unfolds is different.
Another is the stop X form exploding ME has used a bunch of times. Say you suck and can't kill the enemies in time to stop the bomb from blowing up the ship, or cooling down the reactor core, we'll that sucks for you, but it shouldn't cause a game over. Instead you have to save the crew or salvage some item and run out of the exploding ship before you die. You still failed but you get to continue on despite it with a meek "well at least you didn't get everyone killed" congratulations message.
In all they don't have to be huge sweeping changes to events, but they're still enough that on multiple playthroughs or hearing other people talk about their experiences you get this sense of scale you wouldn't have otherwise.
The biggest factor in all this is not making players feel like they need to rush to complete everything or else they'll miss out on stuff, thus my belief that failure should be an option in opening up different outcomes, while still giving the player the impression that some things need to be completed sooner rather than later.
LightofRohan
Member
I've been thinking about this since ME2 was announced...
But, my ideal thing would be a mixture of both how ME2/ME3 did it and how ME1 did it. Have the custom built linear areas, with hand crafted assets and sculpted terrain with precise scripting and story. But you also have procedurally generated worlds (although more advanced this time). If you invest in an "Advanced Scan" you can skip over the procedural world part and land right at the scripted/linear area (like ME2), but you also have the ability to drive to that spot on the procedurally generated land, while exploring small side quests and mining (like ME1).
Also, you can do the ME2/ME3 scanning thing and get a smaller percentage of the materials of that world or as you drive around you can find even more resources (opposed to just scanning). Maybe even allow for a QUICK SCAN which gives you an even smaller percent of the resources, but it is an instant scan (that then locks out manual scan and landing).
Give options for those that are in a rush or those that like to explore.
But, my ideal thing would be a mixture of both how ME2/ME3 did it and how ME1 did it. Have the custom built linear areas, with hand crafted assets and sculpted terrain with precise scripting and story. But you also have procedurally generated worlds (although more advanced this time). If you invest in an "Advanced Scan" you can skip over the procedural world part and land right at the scripted/linear area (like ME2), but you also have the ability to drive to that spot on the procedurally generated land, while exploring small side quests and mining (like ME1).
Also, you can do the ME2/ME3 scanning thing and get a smaller percentage of the materials of that world or as you drive around you can find even more resources (opposed to just scanning). Maybe even allow for a QUICK SCAN which gives you an even smaller percent of the resources, but it is an instant scan (that then locks out manual scan and landing).
Give options for those that are in a rush or those that like to explore.
I mean yeah one or two planets could have a society, but expecting more than that would just be unreasonable.
Not everything needs to lead to a discovery. Most of the time there's just nothing, evidence from real life being that we've sent tons of rovers to Mars and other planets and discovered next to nothing.
ME3 didn't do anything. You scanned planets and that's all there was to it.
Portugeezer
Member
Like Mass Effect 1.
I mean look at this, Frostbite 3 is made for this.
I mean look at this, Frostbite 3 is made for this.
Well... there was sidequests/planets in ME3. But they look so much like regular missions that's it's easy to forget they're sidequests. And then there is the N7 missions who are just muliplayer maps with objectives.
The problem with them was that there was no galaxy exploration needed to find them. Just talk to someone in the Normandy or Citadel at the appropriate time and then you know where to go. =/
Like Mass Effect 1.
I mean look at this, Frostbite 3 is made for this.
This is basically what I want a lot of in ME4. Big open spaces with some small pockets of interesting locations. Bases, mines, colonies, crash sites, ruins, etc.
Most ME1 type planets don't need actual missions or anything on them. Data logs, audio logs and the like are really all you need, along with the occasional enemy of varying types to come upon. Plus the rare event to spice things up and keep you on edge everywhere you go thinking there could be some little civil war between colonists, a hostel take over by some mercs or the uncovering of some ancient alien threat in a mine shaft type thing.
The lack of actual structured content was one of the reasons ME1 exploration felt so good. You had these large open spaces where just over any ridge there could be something of interest. You simply didn't know, you were rarely told to go anywhere or do anything or expect something. You traveled at your will and found things. Abandoned camps and mine shafts. Bases and ruins. Only a handful of actual missions were ever given out or scripted events took places. Most everything was just stumbling into stuff, soaking in the vast emptiness and desperation so many planets offered.
I must have not been clear enough and, if that's the case, I apologise. What I said basically is what you said. I think we even suggested the same examples, when I said "Let's say you have to retrieve something very important, but a group of enemies is also looking for it. If you go do the side quest, they'll be way ahead of you and you'd need to carefully make a new plan to overcome them" and you said "when they do arrive at the main mission instead of a dozen enemies present, theres a dozen and half".
I don't think punishing for going to side missions when you really need to do something big is a good idea, but I also don't think that ignoring that can be good for the player. And the way to "punish" that wouldn't be a game over screen or anything like that, but making the main mission harder for the player. It would be interesting and possibly even fun. Surely, it's expensive in terms of money and time, but I think it's worth the price.
Oh no I was agreeing with you fully, I for some reason wrote heartily totally wrong. And I just wanted to be clear that pure punishment and loss of content was not what was being discussed because that is what most people automatically assume when this kind of failure is an option thing is brought up.
Definitely. I think there's a new opportunity in terms of storytelling that includes changes in gameplay. Side quests are there too. It's part of your story to go after a side mission any time you want, but the game should acknowledge that and make interesting changes. We could have a whole thread talking about how our decisions to prioritize a side mission over a main one changed how we played the game.
That could add to the replay value and interesting design choices. For example, the developer could add a new side mission just before a main one. The player explores and find a NPC that tells him/her about the side mission. As you prepare to go, you get the main mission. But the side quest may also be important in the long run. Do you make an effort to complete the side quest and risk making the main mission harder or just go directly to the main one?
Again, never the possible outcome would be to fail one or another. It would just change to be harder/be less effective to you in the long-run in some way.
infiniteheteroskdasticity
Member
This is a difficult question to answer. I loved the sky boxes in the original Mass Effect but the gameplay on each world was pretty cookie cutter and boring. I liked the focus of Mass Effect 2's system but felt like the missions were ultimately inconsequential. Mass Effect 3 had missions that really did matter but there was no real exploration involved at all. Ideally we'd want something that combined the strengths of all three. One idea I've had to change things up would be for you to play these missions as specific squad members instead of the player character. That way you're getting a change up in gameplay as well as some interetesting story hooks.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Hear hear!
royox
Member
ME3 multiplayer IS godly. FFS I still play it and I hated the idea when they announced the multiplayer.
Forsaken82
Member
I would want it like the first game. Fully explorable worlds, except I would hope that they are fleshed out. If it meant a smaller world, or fewer worlds (content similar to the Earth's Moon), I would take that over anything from ME2 or 3.
Also, Kudos if they can randomize the objectives and content found on the worlds each playthrough.
Also, Kudos if they can randomize the objectives and content found on the worlds each playthrough.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Hell I would play and I'm tempted to get back into it. Had just about maxed out all the gold weapons when I stopped.
I just loved that tenseness of last man standing in a round of platinum, I make one mistake and I'm fucked and your like oh well everyone else died anyway and I'm not expected to easily solo this. Let's fucking do this! as I ninja phantoms and solo like a boss.
Also Havoc soldier best class ever, a poor mans vanguards but fuck nothing beats a rocket body slam.
Definitely prefer the way they did it in 2. Uncharted worlds in ME1 are a completionist's worst nightmare. Exploration in 1 was just too damn predictable and tedious. You check all the planets in a nebula, and once per system you go down only to climb out of the damn thing 2-4 times to do the same minigame over and over until you have gathered all the minerals or artifacts. When you scan a planet and rejoice upon getting a message that your team simply recovered something and you don't have to go down, there's probably something wrong with the side content.
TC McQueen
Member
This is definitely what I would like to see, although the Tier 3 planets would need to be designed in such a way that navigating them wouldn't be as nightmarish as Uncharted Worlds were in ME1.