Lococycle....ladies and gentlemen.
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Ryse and Dead Rising 3 are both 30fps.
By the way, if you're including download games, Outlast and Secret Ponchos are 1080p/60fps on the PS4.
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If Sony demanded 60fps on the PS4........
- Thread starter BruiserBear
- Start date
Lococycle....ladies and gentlemen.
Ryse and Dead Rising 3 are both 30fps.
By the way, if you're including download games, Outlast and Secret Ponchos are 1080p/60fps on the PS4.
The also equivocated the XB1's memory system with the PS4s, giving it the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't go that far, since the bandwidth for texture fetching will still be comparatively limited, assuming that the ESRAM will be mainly used for holding framebuffers. In addition, 32MB are not really excessively much for the buffers of a deferred renderer. Moreover, the PS4's bandwidth can be scheduled more flexibly.
Regarding the 60FPS target: this idea ignores the fact that both consoles have the same CPU power which, depending on the game, can limit the scalability of the framerate.
Hopefully, it turns out true when the games release.
This is neoGaf? Can't believe how many nonsensical threads there are.
Look at some of the latest games in the past 2 years running standard 1080p on high end pc hardware.... Divide power in at least half and you've got the new gen console and people want excellent graphics and 60fps all the time? Factor in the consoles are already waaaaay behind pc power and somehow people think this magic ddr5 or cloud or coding to the metal will bring about revolutionary changes. Also take into account these consoles are here for at least 4-5 years.
It'd be lol worthy but the more nonsense detracts from actual informative good threads.
I like all gaming mediums but there needs to be like a 101 of basic information to make the uninformed spreading total bullshit all the time cease.
As mentioned above how about trying for a locked 30fps to begin with?
Look at some of the latest games in the past 2 years running standard 1080p on high end pc hardware.... Divide power in at least half and you've got the new gen console and people want excellent graphics and 60fps all the time? Factor in the consoles are already waaaaay behind pc power and somehow people think this magic ddr5 or cloud or coding to the metal will bring about revolutionary changes. Also take into account these consoles are here for at least 4-5 years.
It'd be lol worthy but the more nonsense detracts from actual informative good threads.
I like all gaming mediums but there needs to be like a 101 of basic information to make the uninformed spreading total bullshit all the time cease.
As mentioned above how about trying for a locked 30fps to begin with?
Officerrob
Banned
Because the vast majority of people who buy games have no idea what the fuck 60fps is. People will go where their friends and the games they want to play are. 60fps is nice, but nowhere near a selling point for the average gamer (not to mention that it would also piss off developers)
/sigh
Anyway a few things to point out:
Firstly, this would be a bad idea, 30 fps vs. 60 fps is always a design decision, If all games were 60 fps, they could have been prettier at 30 fps.
Secondly, you don't need double the power to do double the fps, the reason is because fps should be a standard 30 or 60 fps, if a game is targetting 30 fps and the art assets are all created for this but the engine becomes more optimized (doing a sequel engines are often optimized between releases) than expected it is possible to achieve perhaps 40-50 fps. At this point an XB1 game (depending on bottlenecks) would be able to go 60 fps on PS4 and most likely would be dropped to a locked 30 fps on XB1, causing a 30fps vs. 60 fps.
At some point in this generation I believe we will get 1 or 2 games which will run at a rock steady 30fps on XB1 and 55-60 fps on PS4, and no I am not saying the PS4 is twice as powerful, I'm saying it doesn't need to be.
This more than likely won't happen as both versions would probably have some additional effects added and would be better tuned, however there will be some smaller studios who are not doing a PC version and so won't have pre built effects to port in, However I think this will happen with a B-Tier Dev developing for Wii U/PS4 and XB1.
SniperHunter
Banned
Xbone is running what at 60 FPS?
A fighting game....
A racer with baked lighting and shadowing
A shooter using an outdated engine from 2007
Yeah....running these at 60 FPS means just as much as Ridge Racer 7 running at 1080p 60 FPS on PS3
A fighting game....
A racer with baked lighting and shadowing
A shooter using an outdated engine from 2007
Yeah....running these at 60 FPS means just as much as Ridge Racer 7 running at 1080p 60 FPS on PS3
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
It won't happen straight away of course, but it IS their target.
BruiserBear
Banned
I guess that's my concern. I worry some developers simply won't bother doing much with that extra power, or if they do, it'll be minor enough most people won't notice the shadows look a little better, and the anti aliasing is a little cleaner.
However, every PS4 game running at 60fps, and looking very similar to the XB1 version running at 30, that would be forcing that difference to be noticed. That would be mandating that PS4 power be used for something worthwhile. That's why I like this idea.
Not to mention I think the power difference will be there to make this relatively painless. So it bums me out it's not gonna happen.
Knowing Sony's recored of excellent exclusives plus PS4 ability to run multiplat better than X1 all the time made my purchase decision so easy. Add to that 399 and PS4 becomes a no brainer.
I always think of PS4 and X1 like 2 BMWs in a dealership:
X1 = BMW 330i
PS4 = BMW M3
And It's just happen that there is a deal on the M3 (better everything ) that makes it cheaper than the normal 330i.
You just feel stupid going for the 330i in this case, which is exactly how I feel about getting X1 at its current value.
I always think of PS4 and X1 like 2 BMWs in a dealership:
X1 = BMW 330i
PS4 = BMW M3
And It's just happen that there is a deal on the M3 (better everything ) that makes it cheaper than the normal 330i.
You just feel stupid going for the 330i in this case, which is exactly how I feel about getting X1 at its current value.
BadAss2961
Member
lol @ him listing Lococycle. Current gen XBLA game.
Dead Rising's 30fps is also questionable to say the least. It should improve, but many frames were dropped at E3.
I guess you are right. It just ends up with optimization, but it will take at least two years to get the hang of it. And if Quantic Dream's Dark Sorcerer is anything to go by than, I don't have any fears regarding the performance of the PS4 games and hopefully the X1 too, two years from now.
Expected, not disappointed. I know the drill bro... ;D
As much as I love 60fps in pretty much every PC action-type game I play, I don't think that any platform-holder or manufacturer should make demands like this. There were plenty of 30fps console games I loved this last generation, and at least some of them would have had to lose at least part of their visual charm (loss of special effects, lower texture quality, reduced scene density, lower native resolution, or even closed-off level design - or some combination of any or all) in order to meet requirements. And the next generation of consoles might have a lot more graphical power than what we have now, but it's not unlimited, and the fact that some PC games are already butting up against limits on PC GPUs far more powerful than the AMD graphics in the next-gen consoles tells me that console game developers are already making the same budgeting decisions right now with the launch libraries.
The big thing is that I want the people *making* the games to make these choices - period. And if they do make bad choices on balancing the consoles' resources while making their games, they should be called out by the gaming community for those choices. (And no, I'm not of the mind that 60fps is *always* the first and most important choice to be made. Others' opinions might differ, but those aren't objective fact.)
Sure, Joe Gamer doesn't know or care either way - a damn good chunk of them seem to think that sub-720p doesn't matter as long as the TV can do 720p and you can't see anything more than 24fps - but it's up to us enthusiast gamers to hold them to a higher standard. If we do it right and be constructive, they'll listen. If we don't, they won't.
The big thing is that I want the people *making* the games to make these choices - period. And if they do make bad choices on balancing the consoles' resources while making their games, they should be called out by the gaming community for those choices. (And no, I'm not of the mind that 60fps is *always* the first and most important choice to be made. Others' opinions might differ, but those aren't objective fact.)
Sure, Joe Gamer doesn't know or care either way - a damn good chunk of them seem to think that sub-720p doesn't matter as long as the TV can do 720p and you can't see anything more than 24fps - but it's up to us enthusiast gamers to hold them to a higher standard. If we do it right and be constructive, they'll listen. If we don't, they won't.
Randolph Freelander
Member
It could be 480p / 15 fps. Not sure I'd notice.
(Exaggerating, but not by much.)
(Exaggerating, but not by much.)
LEGEND0F117
Banned
OP.
The fanboy in you is oozing out of my computer screen onto my desk.
What the fuck.
The fanboy in you is oozing out of my computer screen onto my desk.
What the fuck.
Forcing any kind of standard onto developers would be a nightmare for Sony and would go against their current dev-first mindset. Forcing 60 especially would completely change how development would work between platforms and introduces far too many difficulties in porting, something which Sony is actively trying to make as easy as possible.
Outlast is 60? Hadn't heard that before.
I know Blacklight and Warframe are also going to be 60 on PS4.
Outlast is 60? Hadn't heard that before.
I know Blacklight and Warframe are also going to be 60 on PS4.
BruiserBear
Banned
lol
I should mention I'm buying the XB1 this fall. Probably not buying the PS4 until next year.
Wow, we've already gone from the supposed 3-0 xb1 victory to 4-3 for PS4, interesting.
BadAss2961
Member
Some people prefer better graphics and image quality over framerate. Demanding 60fps would open the door to some people preferring the XB1 versions of some games. It's a completely unnecessary stance to take.
I think your idea would actually work better for the weaker console. If Microsoft were willing to concede lower graphics but make everything 60fps, that would get framerate whores talking.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Xbox 2.5.
I can't see devs sacrificing fidelity for framerate. What we may see, is a game that's 1080p on X1 running @45-50 FPS yet running 60 on the PS4. It could go the other way, though, devs might pack in a few more effects, or add enhanced AA on the PS4 build to take advantage of any extra headroom while maintaining the same frame rate as on X1.
That explains a lot...
There goes the whole discussion...
Until next time folks...
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
You should really make a thread equivalent to criticizing MSFT as well then because they have not been handling their platform as well as Sony.
I'm being serious. If you're going to invest in XB1 then you should be complaining or discussing the platform which you will invest in so it becomes better. Otherwise your intent can come into question.
If you didn't mention that, I think the thread would not have taken a turn in my mind.
I don't believe you. Pachter said that the PS4 is capable of hyper realistic graphics at 240 FPS!
TitanFall was running at 60fps, that's a launch window title.
LEGEND0F117
Banned
Lol
Honestly, I'm a Microsoft guy. Yeah. I said it.
But I love to see competition. I love the way Sony is coming out guns blazing this generation.
Because with every action, there is a reaction.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
If it makes you feel better 95% of the people buying consoles won't care about 60fps.
Pop
Member
BOOM
I want them to make 1080p standard first. 30fps or 60fps, I'm fine with both. No big deal to me if most games aren't 60fps.
Haha how dare we demand more from 3rd party developers!
I expect 3rd party developers to put more work into PC versions.. if not Im not going to buy their game. I dont see how this is any different.
For exclusives it depends on developer ability. You might say that if Turn 10 can make a 60fps racer with amazing visuals at 1080p, the Evolution Studios could definitely make Drive Club run at 60fps on the PS4...no problem...amirite?
Lol, if we're counting launch window titles, PS4 would also have The Witness, Hookum, Oddworld New 'n' Tasty, Transistor and Galak-Z running what I'm almost certain will be 1080p/60fps. But this whole frame rate design decision to gauge the power of a console was always complete and utter bollocks lol.
I think people forget that there were 60fps games on the original Xbox and the PS2.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
Game improvement sucks, but 3D is fine? Lol
1) Those titles are not launch window.
2) Framerate on those titles have not been confirmed.
Nice try though.
LEGEND0F117
Banned
You know.
We all just want some fucking games!
What's the point of bickering about the 60fps vs 30fps when we are talking about consoles.
Seriously. It is ass-backwards.
Yes, we could totally receive 60fps games on BOTH platforms until FPS takes a hit for higher fidelity. If you are so worried about FPS then buy a PC because this argument will always happen every console generation.
Consoles are a "locked" platform. Once its out thats what we get until the new ones.
A PC is an "open" platform meaning; fuck this game don't run let me slap this new CPU and GPU and thermal paste here, here, and why not right here too.
Basically. Just play the damn games and enjoy yourself because ? years from now when the new consoles arrive, this same damn argument will be taking place.
We all just want some fucking games!
What's the point of bickering about the 60fps vs 30fps when we are talking about consoles.
Seriously. It is ass-backwards.
Yes, we could totally receive 60fps games on BOTH platforms until FPS takes a hit for higher fidelity. If you are so worried about FPS then buy a PC because this argument will always happen every console generation.
Consoles are a "locked" platform. Once its out thats what we get until the new ones.
A PC is an "open" platform meaning; fuck this game don't run let me slap this new CPU and GPU and thermal paste here, here, and why not right here too.
Basically. Just play the damn games and enjoy yourself because ? years from now when the new consoles arrive, this same damn argument will be taking place.
i really think it depends on games.
i mean, i cant get to BF3 on my ps3 because of the shitty fps. " its more like a fast powerpoint"
so i do want 60 fps. but i do not want to lose " better graphics " at the end of the day, its the reason why we are upgrading from ps3 to ps4 or xbox 360 to xbox 1.
i mean, i cant get to BF3 on my ps3 because of the shitty fps. " its more like a fast powerpoint"
so i do want 60 fps. but i do not want to lose " better graphics " at the end of the day, its the reason why we are upgrading from ps3 to ps4 or xbox 360 to xbox 1.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
It's a shame most games back in those days were 60FPS.
Which one is not launch window? And do you honestly think they won't be 1080p/60fps? Only one I can see maybe not being 60fps is The Witness, but I doubt it.
Metal Gear Solid 2. And it was definitely a graphical showpiece of the time on top of that. Insane.
The only genre of games you can realistically expect to be 60fps on the next-gen consoles are FPS, Fighting, Racing, & Sports games. If you want 60fps in other genres, play on PC.
Iacobellis
Junior Member
In Nintendo terms, they are definitely launch window!
sixteen-bit
Member
3rd party confirmed
Raonak
Banned
ps4 isn't that much of a performance jump above xbone- it's more powerful, but not enough to push 30fps games on xbone to 60fps games on PS4.
and framerate is not a selling point for the fast majority of people. If people see that the game looks better at 30 fps on xbone vs worse graphics, but 60fps on ps4, most people would go for the better looking one.
it's only the hardcore that know what framerate means, and an even smaller fraction of them who can actually notice the difference between 60 and 30 fps.
and framerate is not a selling point for the fast majority of people. If people see that the game looks better at 30 fps on xbone vs worse graphics, but 60fps on ps4, most people would go for the better looking one.
it's only the hardcore that know what framerate means, and an even smaller fraction of them who can actually notice the difference between 60 and 30 fps.
Hmmm, I wouldn't bank on holding on to that straw.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Most game developers will always sacrifice framerates for visuals. Don't see that changing next gen.