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[longdi]

Besides trolling online during elections or asking Trump to kick up a ruckus on the international front?

So what if Putin have sex tapes and illegal funding records of Trump. I doubt Trump is able to sell out your top secrets, the intelligence agencies are monitoring him 24/7 and will act in an instant. I don't think Trump can pass insane international treaties and sanctions without a sane congress blocking it. I think world leaders will ignore Trump antics sooner.

Whatever hawkish policies that come in place during his tenure, will probably be passed by the right wing GOP with or without Putin. At worst, America will be laughed at for a few years for electing an imbecile head of state.

Do you see Russia catching up to USA in a decade?

Speaking as an outsider...
Am i over crediting US politicians, for them to do the right patriotic thing in the end?

 

[Corderlain]

Are you expecting much discussion, starting on such a partisan title and everything?

 

[norm9]

We're seeing it and we're in it. People can't even see truth from fiction. People calling everything fake news. People coming out the woodwork lamenting the end of a white nation instead of celebrating our diversity. People loving Russia and hating NATO now.

 

[Dontero]

Wrong angle. What could Russia gain by supporting Trump instead of Hillary is right question.

- Trump in election campaign said he wants troops out of Syria
- Trump in election campaign said he wants generally less troops around globe for US tax money
- Trump in election campaign said he wants get on better therms with Russia

Russia supporting Trump doesn't require AT ALL Trump knowledge or cooperation it is much more logical that they moved pieces to support candidate that geopolitically would be better alternative than opponent who said She wants to go hard on russia, hard on middle east and so on.

And this is in context of Trump candidature where every poll predicted him losing election. Which means it is completely illogical to assume that Trump worked with Russians. As for "meddling" itself it could be just as well explained by just standard international fuckery much like US meddles costantly in Russia election systems by trying to fund different NGOs, funding alternative radios etc.

 

[TheShadowLord]

A weaker/smaller NATO without the US would be a big win for Russia.

 

[Dontero]

A weaker/smaller NATO without the US would be a big win for Russia.

Problem here is that Trump doesn't want weaker NATO, he wants stronger NATO.
He wants to force NATO members to spend on their own army more than 2% up to 4%

As an EU citizent i completely agree with him. EU does not have any capability to defend itself from any really threat other than backward nations like some middle eastern republic. US IS NATO. Only other worthwile member of NATO is UK aside from UK there is no one that could do anything about Russia even if rest of members outside of US and UK combined themselves into one army with straigh leadership and all were willing to fight as if they are fighting to protect their own homes (which is not granted !) they would still lie flat before Russia.

France Germany Poland and Spain don't even have combined 50 missile system capable of intercepting long range missiles. Out of those 50 about 3/4 are patriot systems sold at a cut or given for free (as part of us troops station) and 1/4 does not have any battle experience as they are untested systems developed by various members.

To make a comparison Russia alone has about 320 S-400s ALONE which are capable of intercepting any modern stealth fighters. That is without even counting 100s of S-300 which are still perfectly capable of intercepting any European aircraft or missile since Europe doesn't really have any stealth fighters.

Without US and UK NATO is paper tiger.

As for "But we have nukes so there is no point investing in conventional army" argument:

 

[rokkerkory]

The clusterfuck of messing with US and its allies is reason alone enough.

 

[pramod]

Putin can witness the left and the media lose their minds and heads explode from Trump derangement syndrome and have a good laugh.

 

[Krixeus]

Bessie said the satisfaction in knowing that he helped elect a troll to be leader of the free world?

 

[iamblades]

Besides trolling online during elections or asking Trump to kick up a ruckus on the international front?

So what if Putin have sex tapes and illegal funding records of Trump. I doubt Trump is able to sell out your top secrets, the intelligence agencies are monitoring him 24/7 and will act in an instant. I don't think Trump can pass insane international treaties and sanctions without a sane congress blocking it. I think world leaders will ignore Trump antics sooner.

Whatever hawkish policies that come in place during his tenure, will probably be passed by the right wing GOP with or without Putin. At worst, America will be laughed at for a few years for electing an imbecile head of state.

Do you see Russia catching up to USA in a decade?

Speaking as an outsider...
Am i over crediting US politicians, for them to do the right patriotic thing in the end?

Hell no, Russia has terminal demographics, and the last generation of workers who received a proper education are now in their 50s. In 25 years we actually may be forced to prop up the Russian government to avoid massive nuclear proliferation following a complete governmental failure.

https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/russian-demographics-perfect-storm

Russia is not a long term geopolitical threat to anyone, and is only a near term threat to Ukraine and the Baltic states.

Russia should have been accepted into NATO when Yeltsin asked in 1991 so we could have wrapped the cold war up in a nice bow and maybe enabled a better form of government to develop in Russia instead of the Putin kleptocracy.

 

[iamblades]

oops

 

[Death Dealer]

A weaker/smaller NATO without the US would be a big win for Russia.

I don't buy it. If those NATO countries are so worried about Russia, why are most of them not meeting their obligations ? And historically, Russia was invaded by Europe twice. Napolean in the 19th century and Hitler in the 20th. Germany just signed a massive natural gas contract with Russia. That makes them dependent on Russia. And yet we're footing the majority of the cost to defend them ? Makes no sense. WWII ended almost 75 years ago. I think it's time to come home.

 

[Barsinister]

longdi you do not understand American patriotism any further than you understand America itself. I will be happy to help you in your understanding of our ways, if you were to ask. In the meantime, please refrain from your baseless accusations and innuendo of our President. It is not constructive to tell falsehoods.

 

[longdi]

That means Putin interference is no big deal?
Instead of your media focusing on Putin antics, should look inwards at those greedy GOP who put US at more risk than some online trolling?
Sure your Prez looked like dog on stage this week, i mean look at Trumpet's head flipping back and forth when the reporter asked Putin if he had dirty secrets, lol!
Do US politicians actually blindly follow the President? I am sure there is a bigger decision making body behind all of this.

 

[Barsinister]

Is this a cry for help on your part? Would you like to immigrate? You need a unique skill to enter our country. How about this, we can use your thick skull to calibrate our measuring instruments. We'll call it the longdi standard.

"That wall is two longdi's thick," we'll say!

We can house you in the same building as the atomic clock. What do you think?

 

[danielberg]

Besides trolling online during elections or asking Trump to kick up a ruckus on the international front?

So what if Putin have sex tapes and illegal funding records of Trump. I doubt Trump is able to sell out your top secrets, the intelligence agencies are monitoring him 24/7 and will act in an instant. I don't think Trump can pass insane international treaties and sanctions without a sane congress blocking it. I think world leaders will ignore Trump antics sooner.

Whatever hawkish policies that come in place during his tenure, will probably be passed by the right wing GOP with or without Putin. At worst, America will be laughed at for a few years for electing an imbecile head of state.

Do you see Russia catching up to USA in a decade?

Speaking as an outsider...
Am i over crediting US politicians, for them to do the right patriotic thing in the end?

What a idiotic title. You know what? Putin gets Nothing he hasnt already gained from fools like you that divide the country by literally for 2 years now preaching "guilty until proven innocent" when its about trump and only trump.
"hurr what is burden of prove durrrrr"

 

[Nobody_Important]

He has already gotten exactly what he wanted. The US is now an international joke, we have lost our standing as leader of the free world, our allies don't trust us and don't wanna work with us, and Trump routinely goes easy on Putin.


Everything at this point is just icing on the cake.

 

[Barsinister]

He has already gotten exactly what he wanted. The US is now an international joke, we have lost our standing as leader of the free world, our allies don't trust us and don't wanna work with us, and Trump routinely goes easy on Putin.


Everything at this point is just icing on the cake.

Can you look into your crystal ball and tell me what the lotto numbers will be, please? Also, that is a pretty neat trick you have, mind reading people! can you tell me what I'm thinking?

 

[Nobody_Important]

Can you look into your crystal ball and tell me what the lotto numbers will be, please? Also, that is a pretty neat trick you have, mind reading people! can you tell me what I'm thinking?

How is any of that mind reading? Thats just stating the facts of the situation. Russia benefits from all of what I listed. if things get even worse then they only benefit even more.


Thats just common sense.

 

[Forthefuture]

Well he is a pragmatic guy. He will get as much from a political dummy like 45 as he can.

 

[Barsinister]

He has already gotten exactly what he wanted.

He, being Putin, got what he wanted. Or you mean He, being Trump, got what he wanted. Or you mean He, being......slice it up any way you wish, it's still baloney. You are telling me you know what anybody wants? Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Nobody_Important knows! Stay that way "Nobody_Important", please stay that way. For all of our well being.

Well he is a pragmatic guy. He will get as much from a political dummy like 45 as he can.

Angry, angry man. Pity!

 

[Nobody_Important]

He, being Putin, got what he wanted. Or you mean He, being Trump, got what he wanted. Or you mean He, being......slice it up any way you wish, it's still baloney. You are telling me you know what anybody wants?

I can't tell if you are trolling or just intentionally missing the point by a mile.


Regardless of Putin's exact interest in having Trump under they thumb the thing they want is for Russia to benefit from it. Russia is benefiting from everything that Trump has done to divide this country and its allies. So even if his original interest hasn't been achieved yet Russia has still benefited from the situation immensely. Thats basic common sense.

 

[Barsinister]

President Trump has bent over backwards to try to unite this country, you are just too blind to see it. The only ties to Russia that President Trump has is maybe a necktie. Further divide.....Further divide! Bah! Groups of the outraged are dividing this country!

There are two things that I cannot stand. One is besmirching this great country and its leaders without due cause. And two is picking on someone who doesn't have wit to defend themselves.

I'll be punishing myself for number two later for interacting with you. Stop being so hateful and enjoy everything that America does for the world. You will miss us when we are gone, I promise you that!

 

[Nobody_Important]

President Trump has bent over backwards to try to unite this country

Well then he has failed utterly and miserably at that endeavor lol The country is more divided than ever and the added bonus for Russia is Trump is also openly attacking our allies in the media and is actually attacking economically with Tariffs.


Thats not even mentioning his asinine attacks on NATO

 

[betrayal]

In my humble opinion the discussion is flawed right from the start.

Confirmation bias plays a big role, after getting all the information from the media. Therefore it seems like everyone starts this discussion under the assumption Putin (or Russia in general) is "evil" or whatever you want to call it. I really wish people sometimes take a step (or sometimes even many more) backwards and try to use their own mind.

If this would be some kind of sci-fi fantasy world, teleporting 1.000.000 average US citiziens over to Russia and let them live their for a few years would be interesting, to say the least.

 

[MisterFalcon]

I don't buy it. If those NATO countries are so worried about Russia, why are most of them not meeting their obligations ? And historically, Russia was invaded by Europe twice. Napolean in the 19th century and Hitler in the 20th. Germany just signed a massive natural gas contract with Russia. That makes them dependent on Russia. And yet we're footing the majority of the cost to defend them ? Makes no sense. WWII ended almost 75 years ago. I think it's time to come home.

Historically Poland and the Baltic States have been invaded by Russia just as often and actually subjugated.

 

[betrayal]

Well then he has failed utterly and miserably at that endeavor lol The country is more divided than ever and the added bonus for Russia is Trump is also openly attacking our allies in the media and is actually attacking economically with Tariffs.


Thats not even mentioning his asinine attacks on NATO

I'm not a US citizien and i think Trumps "how" can sometimes be a disgrace. But many times the "what" seems right and the first year of Trump's administration showed, that many "whats" are the same, just like for Obama or H. Clinton. The "how" is different of course...and that's a problem. At least if a) you're offended by virtually everything or b) you are not objective and just want to be "against something".

This world will really go downhills if feelings matter more than facts.

 

[Barsinister]

our allies

So, you are American. Insomniac, like me?

Trump wants to make new deals with our allies. He is a deal maker. He says things that will put people off of their guard in order to secure the best deal he can make. We should be helping him with this endeavor. It is in our best interest to.

When you go shopping for something where there is a chance to save yourself some money, do you reject it? If you do reject it on a principle, what is your principle it this situation? He's racist? He is a puppet? Those are unearned labels. Just more gainsaying and crying into your sleeve. Name one thing that cannot be easily refuted that President Trump has done to earn your ire? Other than beating Secretary Clinton in the presidential race.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Therefore it seems like everyone starts this discussion under the assumption Putin (or Russia in general) is "evil" or whatever you want to call it

Its not an assumption. That is a literal fact. Putin is a dictator that rules his country like a dictator. They have actively sought the downfall of the US and NATO for over 50 years. To pretend otherwise is woefully naive at best and intentionally disregarding facts at worst.

 

[Barsinister]

Its not an assumption. That is a literal fact. Putin is a dictator that rules his country like a dictator. They have actively sought the downfall of the US and NATO for over 50 years. To pretend otherwise is woefully naive at best and intentionally disregarding facts at worst.

This really reads like you are living in some kind of cold war spy novel. Step into the light, friend.

 

[Nobody_Important]

This really reads like you are living in some kind of cold war spy novel. Step into the light, friend.

Our highest level intelligence shows that Russia tried to meddle in our election. So yes they are still actively trying to undermine the US. Once again if you believe Russia is our new best friend you are at best being naive and at worst denying known facts.

 

[betrayal]

Its not an assumption. That is a literal fact. Putin is a dictator that rules his country like a dictator. They have actively sought the downfall of the US and NATO for over 50 years. To pretend otherwise is woefully naive at best and intentionally disregarding facts at worst.

Why don't you start to gather information from people who live under Putin's regime? Start using Google and YouTube. It's no secret.

I personally know a lot of russians living in Russia or the eastern part of Germany and there is not a single one (try reading it multiple times), who says that Putin is bad for the country or in general. Just in case you don't get it and to make it very clear for you. These are real russian people. People who work, love and vote. Free people who can move around the world and say and do whatever they want.

It baffles my mind that people like you have the disgusting arrogance of talking this absolute horseshit without any real world connection.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Why don't you start to gather information from people who live under Putin's regime? Start using Google and YouTube. It's no secret.

I personally know a lot of russians living in Russia or the eastern part of Germany and there is not a single one (try reading it multiple times), who says that Putin is bad for the country or in general. Just in case you don't get it and to make it very clear for you. These are real russian people. People who work, love and vote. Free people who can move around the world and say and do whatever they want.

It baffles my mind that people like you have the disgusting arrogance of talking this absolute horseshit without any real world connection.

Of course they are gonna say Putin is good for the country. We have people in our country that say Trump is great. That doesn't make it true though.


Russia has always tried to undermine the US and are continuing to do so. To try and treat them with kid gloves or be friendly with them after everything they have done is ridiculous and it boggles my mind that people who support Trump call themselves "patriots" and yet go out of their way to argue for one of Americas longest standing adversaries. It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Barsinister]

Nobody_Important there you go mind reading again. I never said that Russia was our best friends. My opinion is more nuanced than that. But that is all I consider it, an opinion. I am not stating it as the Gospel Truth. That would make me a nincompoop!

I have posited a different way that you could look at the world that might make you a bit happier. I did it because I would like for us to get along across the isle a little better. It's not all racism, sexism, evil intent and puppets. Not every President Trump supporter is a mouth breathing moron who needs the world explained to them at every point on every subject. Some of us are reasonable, no?

 

[betrayal]

Of course they are gonna say Putin is good for the country. We have people in our country that say Trump is great. That doesn't make it true though.

What's wrong with that?
Your "feelings over facts" is what's seperating your country (i assume you're living in the US).

Russia has always tried to undermine the US and are continuing to do so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_electoral_intervention

 

[Nobody_Important]

What's wrong with that?
Your "feelings over facts" is what's seperating your country (i assume you're living in the US).

I am stating facts. People saying something is great doesn't make it true. Thats not an opinion based statement.

 

[betrayal]

I am stating facts.

No, you didn't. Not once.
If you did, just re-quote them and i will apologize. Maybe i missed them.

People saying something is great doesn't make it true.

People saying something is not great doesn't make it true either.

PS: If you're just trolling, you've got me.

 

[Nobody_Important]

No, you didn't. Not once.
If you did, just re-quote them and i will apologize. Maybe i missed them.




People saying something is not great doesn't make it true either.

PS: If you're just trolling, you've got me.

No I'm not at all. I was actually about to ask you the same thing. Because telling me to take Russian people on YouTube as proof Putin is a swell guy is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. There are so many holes in that line of thinking that I legitimately do not know where to start.

 

[betrayal]

You get all your information from Google, YouTube and the TV, so what's your problem? Can you only tolerate things that go in line with your ideology?

The media says "Person x is evil" - that's fine and a fact.
The media says "Person x is okay" - lol, fuck the media.

 

[Nobody_Important]

You get all your information from Google, YouTube and the TV, so what's your problem? Can you only tolerate things that go in line with your ideology?

The media says "Person x is evil" - that's fine and a fact.
The media says "Person x is okay" - lol, fuck the media.

I will believe journalists and newspapers over random trolls on twitter and youtube yes.

 

[betrayal]

We are not talking about random trolls on twitter. Stop derailing and distorting the topic. This is not the HuffingtonPost or BuzzFeed.

I understand your statement, but it is fundamentally flawed. You only believe media outlets that support you current beliefs.

 

[longdi]

So we can say that Putin is no super bond villain, he is unable to heil hydra into your US administration? Its alot of hysteria by the media over Trump weakass summit.

I still think you need to impeach Trump, get some one more wiser to deal on the international front. He is causing too much geopolitical instability, where it's simpler to coast on the global economic recovery

 

[Nobody_Important]

We are not talking about random trolls on twitter. Stop derailing and distorting the topic. This is not the HuffingtonPost or BuzzFeed.

I understand your statement, but it is fundamentally flawed. You only believe media outlets that support you current beliefs.

No I support media outlets that cover actual reality instead of trying to spin everything as a win like Fox News does regularly. Shep Smith is the only person at Fox worth a damn anymore.

 

[betrayal]

Like i said, if exercising confirmation bias based on your beliefs which where formed by the exact same sources is your thing, then have fun in your endless loop of ignorance and tunnel vision. But hopefully your country can recover from so much hypocrisy and intolerance somewhere in the future.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Like i said, if exercising confirmation bias based on your beliefs which where formed by the exact same sources is your thing, then have fun in your endless loop of ignorance and tunnel vision. But hopefully your country can recover from so much hypocrisy and intolerance somewhere in the future.

Look you can pretend to look down on me all you want, but just because I refuse to fall for the bullshit peddled by lesser outlets doesn't make me ignorant.


For example Trump stood in front of the world on live TV and fucking made a fool of himself at that Putin meeting. Numerous members of his own party admitted that. Yet some places like Fox News blatantly covered the meeting as a victory and hardly covered any of the negative feedback. They mentioned it here and there, but overall treated the meeting as a breakthrough in Russian-American relations which is obviously bullshit to literally anyone who has been paying attention.


Meanwhile every other network, website, and paper out there covered it for what it was. It was a fucking joke and a dramatic failure.



Thats the kind of shit I am talking about. It was on live tv. He is on fucking tape. Yet Fox News and a few other Trumper outlets tried to cover it as some great victory because they know their viewers are too stupid to actually look up the matter for themselves. They know their lemming followers will take what they say as gospel and walk away thinking Trump did good and thats bullshit. Its why Trump still has a high approval as he has. If his moronic base knew half of the truth then they would be distancing themselves, but since they only rely on "real news" outlets like Fox News they are uninformed to a pathetic degree. Meanwhile the "fake news" sites that are spreading factual information are disregarded and ignored. Trumps base as a result lives in an alternate reality where they think Trump and America is doing just fine when the reality is so far from that its amazing they haven't noticed yet.




So I do not give any merit to any site, paper or "news" organization that actively denies the reality that I can see with my own two eyes. If that makes me "ignorant" in your eyes then so be it, but I'd rather pay attention to factual reality than listen to what I wanna hear peddled by second rate "journalists" like Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, Sean Hannity or Laura Ingram. Those goons don't have a single ounce of integrity left between them even if they pooled their resources.

 

[Harksteed]

Considering how much power the US has in the world (spoiler: it's a lot) having major influence on its leader would be incredibly beneficial. Even more so for a country that has been at odds with it for a long time.

 

[danielberg]

I'm not a US citizien and i think Trumps "how" can sometimes be a disgrace. But many times the "what" seems right and the first year of Trump's administration showed, that many "whats" are the same, just like for Obama or H. Clinton. The "how" is different of course...and that's a problem. At least if a) you're offended by virtually everything or b) you are not objective and just want to be "against something".

This world will really go downhills if feelings matter more than facts.

They already do.. or have you forgotten the insanity in the media for literally every thing trump does?

I mean "oh no trump will crash the economy, oh no trump will hunt down gays and put them into camps, oh no he is hitler, oh no jews better be afraid in a trump presidency, oh no the US leaving the paris climate accord (cause its shit) means trump sets the world on fire, oh no trump will surely cause ww3... with north korea, then china, then russia, then the EU, oh no trump will exit russian sanctions and all just because his puppetmaster Putin (or was it bannon again?) controls him."

If anyone truly believe most of the center and left media is fair and balanced and not just feels narrative to manipulate idiots... yeah gotta do some questioning whatever happened to all these now proven fake incidences/fakenews outrage designed to fuck over republicans and lose votes through the entire presidency by simply and NOW PROVABLY straight up spreading lies and half truths on a global scale.
All the crap they preached now for 2 years that would "definitely happen! be scared! and never vote gop again!", did not happen not even once. And not a single media whore apologized for spreading this garbage and basically turning half the US crazy with it.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Look you can pretend to look down on me all you want, but just because I refuse to fall for the bullshit peddled by lesser outlets doesn't make me ignorant.


For example Trump stood in front of the world on live TV and fucking made a fool of himself at that Putin meeting. Numerous members of his own party admitted that. Yet some places like Fox News blatantly covered the meeting as a victory and hardly covered any of the negative feedback. They mentioned it here and there, but overall treated the meeting as a breakthrough in Russian-American relations which is obviously bullshit to literally anyone who has been paying attention.


Meanwhile every other network, website, and paper out there covered it for what it was. It was a fucking joke and a dramatic failure.



Thats the kind of shit I am talking about. It was on live tv. He is on fucking tape. Yet Fox News and a few other Trumper outlets tried to cover it as some great victory because they know their viewers are too stupid to actually look up the matter for themselves. They know their lemming followers will take what they say as gospel and walk away thinking Trump did good and thats bullshit. Its why Trump still has a high approval as he has. If his moronic base knew half of the truth then they would be distancing themselves, but since they only rely on "real news" outlets like Fox News they are uninformed to a pathetic degree. Meanwhile the "fake news" sites that are spreading factual information are disregarded and ignored. Trumps base as a result lives in an alternate reality where they think Trump and America is doing just fine when the reality is so far from that its amazing they haven't noticed yet.




So I do not give any merit to any site, paper or "news" organization that actively denies the reality that I can see with my own two eyes. If that makes me "ignorant" in your eyes then so be it, but I'd rather pay attention to factual reality than listen to what I wanna hear peddled by second rate "journalists" like Tucker Carlson, Alex Jones, Sean Hannity or Laura Ingram. Those goons don't have a single ounce of integrity left between them even if they pooled their resources.

Fully agree with you on this. It is a shame, but it looks like this place got a bunch of Russian agents to place misinformation, or they are only dumb people which won't see reality.