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[Vigilant Walrus]

They don't know where to look? I thought liberals control the media? Pick up a newspaper. Turn on the TV. They have those channels too.

I understand what you're saying. But all that means is that it's pretty goddamn fruitless to try to reach them. We're better off if they destroy themselves before they destroy the rest of us. Maybe it's cold, but I don't care anymore. I'm looking out for those I care about. There's no more fucking around.

Fox News is the worst thing that has happened to America in 30 years. It has corrupted and made so many people afraid, and it's your leading news source and have been for many years.
I don't see your media preying on people any different than elsewhere. We have two decades of islamophobia based media in EU as well, and we cannot divorce the words muslim and islam from terror and jihad.


But people buy into this other places. Duterte, Erdogan, Abe, Berlusconi, Abbot, Cameron- How many pieces of shit have not been elected everywhere in the last few decades on the same selfish fears? People already have a disposition and looks for refirmation when they already have a belief.
If I have a bad experience with muslims, it's what I will be conditioned to see moving forward, and so, once the feed has been sown I am more likely to actively seek conservative media. Because of group think, because we're lazy, because we want to know what we what to know.
This is human nature, not right-wing idealogue. We all have this in us. It can only be trained away, but many people don't have teachers like that.


I don't see why it couldn't be me. I might as well be a trump supporter. The only reason I am not is not because I am any better or worse of a person, only because I have the privilege of growing up with people who taught me a lot of good things. I don't understand why conservatives are the enemy, or why many of them cannot be brought back around. Many of them believe in false ideas and false outcomes but harbor no height. And their ignorance about immigrants is the same ignorance you and I have about the people who make our clothes and electronics. We don't hate them, we don't have any intentional desire to actively harm or support harming them. We simply do not consider it very much because kids making clothes in bangladesh is not a factor in our lives. In the same way, if you're a white rural American who don't know any hispanic or black or gay people, they might not be a factor in your life and so you might not consider how harmful trump is for them.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight back against racism or prejudice. Not at all.

 

[Coldsun]

Illegals ARE citizens, they pay their taxes they've created communities they work jobs they pay for shit it's their country too. It's how your ancestors immigrated here unless you're a native.

What are you going on about now?
Illegals ARE NOT citizens. It's not how many of our ancestors immigrated here. A lot of our ancestors went through LEGAL channels.

Illegal is not synonymous with immigrant. Don't confuse the two.

 

[Haly]

1. Irony

2. 8 years is too much

 

[F34R]

Your hit and runs are making you as bad as the 'close minded, living in their silos' Tea Partiers that you're comparing us to. Go ahead try to prove me wrong or just run away like you're doing.


They pay taxes, they should vote. It's called Due Process hombre lol


Illegals ARE citizens, they pay their taxes they've created communities they work jobs they pay for shit it's their country too. It's how your ancestors immigrated here unless you're a native.

They are NOT citizens. Paying taxes doesn't make you a citizen. Permanent residence doesn't make you a citizen. When you become a naturalized citizen, then you can vote in Federal and State elections. There are some local jurisdictions that allow non-citizens to vote.

 

[Bleepey]

Fuck that Sharon bitch. This lady broke the law yes, she deserved punishment yes but not 8 years. Not 8 years behind bars missing out on her life and not being able to watch her kids grow up. That's just not right.

And to all the folks saying "serves her right because she voted GOP" like wtf? You are the problem. Folks like you on both the left and right are the problem.


Case in point:



Foh with this post.

If a wolf campaigns on eating sheep and said Wolf gets elected, should I feel upset that sheep got what they voted for.

 

[numble]

No they arent. You seem to be missing the meaning of the term "illegal". They certainly dont pay all of their taxes, since by being here illegally they have no means of doing so. They work and get paid under the table. You do realize there is an actual legal process to immigrating here and becoming a citizen right?

What do you mean they have no means to? The IRS will give undocumented aliens an ITIN for tax filing: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identification-number-itin

 

[Seraph_Nicholas]

Republicans are political cannibals.

 

[numble]

What are you going on about now?
Illegals ARE NOT citizens. It's not how many of our ancestors immigrated here. A lot of our ancestors went through LEGAL channels.

It is likely that the majority of American ancestors came to America prior to formal immigration requirements. It wasn't until 1920 before they had immigration limitations (unless you were Chinese, which were excluded starting in 1882). The reason the Statue of Liberty exists was because anybody could immigrate to America at the time.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

What do you mean they have no means to? The IRS will give undocumented aliens an ITIN for tax filing: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individual-taxpayer-identification-number-itin

Illegal aliens that are being paid cash under the table don't receive a w2 at the end of the year. The IRS has no means of knowing how much money they made and how much they owe. Any payment they make to the IRS would be in good faith.

 

[numble]

Illegal aliens that are being paid cash under the table don't receive a w2 at the end of the year. The IRS has no means of knowing how much money they made and how much they owe. Any payment they make to the IRS would be in good faith.

I have a large income and I do not get a W2 or a 1099. My boss has a 7-figure income without a W2 or 1099. Does that mean we have no means of paying our taxes?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

First, stop making up words to sound smarter, I was letting it go before, but now it's starting to grate. (The word you want is "absolutist")

Secondly, start addressing what I'm actually saying. Yes, voting to hurt others deserves scorn. And whether or not I react with pity or schadenfreude has no bearing on these people lighting their own asses on fire. The more they suffer for fucking up, the more likely they are not to do it again. And no, low information is not an excuse. Because, again, there are plenty of low information voters who absolutely do vote in their best interest instead of voting to harm others.

That second example is literally malicious.

What other low information voters does, is not a proof or logical argument to credit or discredit what another low information does. What is the basis in that? As far as I can tell, you cannot prove that she voted republican with the intent to hurt anyone, but even if she did, as I explained to you, it is not uncommon for immigrants to see other immigrants as fighting for scraps.
I am not talking around the subject, I am telling you that might want to reconsider taking pleasure and laughing over a ignorant mother being deported because she believed in false right wing propaganda.
Literally malicious behavior indicates that someone is malice towards others or something with that as the sole intent. I am saying that you cannot say ignorance is the same thing as being malicious.

AFAIK absolustic means having absolute values with no room for changing variables. It's just all or nothing. Either you're one of the good guys, or you'll literally enjoy seeing them be hurt.
That is what I don't understand about you- Why can't you just condemn the ignorant actions of a person but divorce it from a person who might very well not mean any ills towards someone else.

As I said before, your logic of reasoning is that if people do something stupid they deserve to get fucked. And not just get fucked, but that you like to take pleasure in it. You talk about empathy being some currency like in a slotmachine. That to be sounds sadistic and demented and like you have problem with empathy. Remember I am not saying it is not awful to see her voting for the republicans, but that it is really weird for you to go so aggressively for the jugglars on anybody who doesn't agree with your exact line of thinking.
There is a lot of complex paradoxical elements that make up someones belief systems, and particularly their belief systems. Who really knows all the exact reasons and amounts of info she had access to. If her main news source was Fox like the majority of Americans she would not see any of the horrible actual true news about what they commit.

 

[DOWN]

She voted for this and she did something serious that damages the reputations of her fellow immigrants. I feel bad for her because of the overkill, but not as bad as she probably feels about being a Republican now.

 

[BoosterDuck]

No they arent. You seem to be missing the meaning of the term "illegal". They certainly dont pay all of their taxes, since by being here illegally they have no means of doing so. They work and get paid under the table. You do realize there is an actual legal process to immigrating here and becoming a citizen right?

They do pay their taxes though, illegals have fake social security numbers and Tax Identification numbers to pay income taxes of they're paid under the table. And the current legal process is shitty, all your ancestors had to do was walk over here and claim land to gain citizenship, vote to change it.

What are you going on about now?
Illegals ARE NOT citizens. It's not how many of our ancestors immigrated here. A lot of our ancestors went through LEGAL channels.

Illegal is not synonymous with immigrant. Don't confuse the two.

Illegals ARE citizens, stop saying they aren't. And if your ancestors came here before the late 19th century then there weren't ANY legal channels to go through they just had to come here. And even then it wasn't until the 1920's when the feds started getting choosy about backgrounds.

They are NOT citizens. Paying taxes doesn't make you a citizen. Permanent residence doesn't make you a citizen. When you become a naturalized citizen, then you can vote in Federal and State elections. There are some local jurisdictions that allow non-citizens to vote.

Paying taxes DOES make you a citizen, the feds just want to exploit modern immigrants. And all you need to vote in Texas is sign a form then show a utility bill or paycheck.

 

[Coldsun]

Fair point on families who migrated here before there were legal channels.
However, illegals are still not citizens.

Citizens are:
- individuals born in one of the several states of the United States, District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, or Virgin Islands;
- individuals born in an outlying possession of the U.S. (American Samoa or Swain's Island) on or after the date the U.S. acquired the possession (US non-citizen national);
- foreign-born children, under age 18, residing in the U.S. with their birth or adoptive parents, at least one of whom is a U.S. citizen by birth or naturalization; and
- individuals granted citizenship status by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) (naturalized U.S. citizens).

If someone meets one of the above criteria. They are citizens. If they do not. They are not citizens. Visitors? Yes. Residents? Sure. Citizens? Nope.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Fair point on families who migrated here before there were legal channels.
However, illegals are still not citizens.

Citizens are:
- individuals born in one of the several states of the United States, District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, or Virgin Islands;
- individuals born in an outlying possession of the U.S. (American Samoa or Swain’s Island) on or after the date the U.S. acquired the possession (US non-citizen national);
- foreign-born children, under age 18, residing in the U.S. with their birth or adoptive parents, at least one of whom is a U.S. citizen by birth or naturalization; and
- individuals granted citizenship status by the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) (naturalized U.S. citizens).

If someone meets one of the above criteria. They are citizens. If they do not. They are not citizens. Visitors? Yes. Residents? Sure. Citizens? Nope.

Why is there a difference between permanent resident and citizen?

 

[BoosterDuck]

What are all these nerdy legal bulletpoints, if you come here pay your taxes do work then you're an American citizen. End of story, THAT'S IT.

 

[Trojita]

What are all these nerdy legal bulletpoints, if you come here pay your taxes do work then you're an American citizen. End of story, THAT'S IT.

That's not how that works. That's not how any of this works.

 

[Coldsun]

Why is there a difference between permanent resident and citizen?

Great and perhaps, the proper question.

As it is now, the legal system does have 2 distinct classifications. Why is there? I really don't know why were separated. Perhaps because one is less strict and considered an entry-tier? Don't really know though.

Perhaps in the future, the distinctions between the two will be removed. I mean, they both pay taxes but there are quite a few restrictions. PRs are expected to reside in the country primarily while citizens can live aboard as they please. Voting rights (or the lack thereof also differ).

As it stands now though, Citizenship has clearly defined criteria and procedures as does becoming a Permanent resident. Treating them the same is factually wrong, because as of now, they are legally NOT the same.

Personally, I'd like to see the two classes merged in the future and to make citizenship a less costly affair for those involved.

What are all these nerdy legal bulletpoints, if you come here pay your taxes do work then you're an American citizen. End of story, THAT'S IT.

Guess both the left and the right are fans of alternative facts then.
Your personal beliefs on how citizenship should work are entirely irrelevant to how citizenship works in reality.

If, instead, you think there should be reform on the front (and I'd largely agree), then that's fine. However, in discussions pertaining to legally defined terms with SPECIFIC criteria, leave your 'wishlist for how things were' at the door and instead focus on 'how things are'... and perhaps 'how can we change things in the future'.

 

[Coldsun]

dbl post.

 

[SoRuffShoNuff]

I have a large income and I do not get a W2 or a 1099. My boss has a 7-figure income without a W2 or 1099. Does that mean we have no means of paying our taxes?

There is a record somewhere of someone paying you for a good or service. When someone goes to home Depot to pick up a day laborer and pays them 50 bucks cash nobody can track that.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Great and perhaps, the proper question.

As it is now, the legal system does have 2 distinct classifications. Why is there? I really don't know why were separated. Perhaps because one is less strict and considered an entry-tier? Don't really know though.

Perhaps in the future, the distinctions between the two will be removed. I mean, they both pay taxes but there are quite a few restrictions. PRs are expected to reside in the country primarily while citizens can live aboard as they please. Voting rights (or the lack thereof also differ).

As it stands now though, Citizenship has clearly defined criteria and procedures as does becoming a Permanent resident. Treating them the same is factually wrong, because as of now, they are legally NOT the same.

Personally, I'd like to see the two classes merged in the future and to make citizenship a less costly affair for those involved.



Guess both the left and the right are fans of alternative facts then.
Your personal beliefs on how citizenship should work are entirely irrelevant to how citizenship works in reality.

If, instead, you think there should be reform on the front (and I'd largely agree), then that's fine. However, in discussions pertaining to legally defined terms with SPECIFIC criteria, leave your 'wishlist for how things were' at the door and instead focus on 'how things are'... and perhaps 'how can we change things in the future'.

I agree with the bolded. As it stands, having two different "tiers" doesn't make sense since both can essentially do the same things within the country. They just give a few more rights to citizens.

 

[HaloSon]

I don't understand this mindset at all. The only reason why people like this woman and many others who are hustled by fake lies, propaganda and misinformation to act against their own (and sometimes others) best interests signify them not having been fortunate enough to grow up with parents/caretakers and a society that taught the basic critical thinking skills. This is not prequisitive, but learned through education, and good guidance. Millions and millions of people around the world are easy prey to scrupilous ploys and plots.
What I take from your post is that you find enjoyment in ignorance in people coming back to bite them. People are not born to vote for the republican people. It's something that shapes you through a long shitty life of seeing life as half empty and everyone other than your own kin as being out to take what you have.
Most people are ignorant about many things. What learning, values and guidance they have had access to is not the same as yours, and as a result they might not have the skills necessary to navigate through fake news, or fake politicians or fake ideas.
I don't think being wrong or ignorant on some topics is a condemnation of their entire person. And certainly not celebrating by laughing at them or be happy that their life, and perhaps also their kids life is going to be ruined.

I see this line of thinking "do something stupid, you deserve to get fucked" being attributed to many people. It's peoples own fault for being alcoholics, gamblers, criminals. Fuck them all and laugh at them as they get fucked. Or people who get tricked into giving all their Religious TV hosts or seed faith. It's what stupid fucks deserve for being dumb as fucking doornails.
That to me is ignoring the countless factors that leads up to a person being like that. The only difference between any of us and that lady is the quality of our parents/teachers/education/social circle. It's important to remember that.
I feel tremendously bad for that lady. The false ideas in her head she must have, and her own fake beliefs bringing her own doom and putting her kids into a foster home. She is just another person who got played, just like millions of others. They should have known better, but most don't.

My guy.

She was 37 YEARS OLD. If she could not figure out the pitfalls of white supremacy by then, then nothing could of prevented this at all. If anything she is a willing agent of white supremacy thought she was doing the right thing for the winning team and now her whole life is fucked. Its hard to feel sorry for people who don't feel the need to actually liberate themselves. She could of got out of this if she wanted to but the dominate society lead her to believe she was one of the "good ones". She is just fucking stupid and this is what happens to ignorant people.

She was probably raised to think she was better than black people too since colorism is a big thing in her community/culture. Her whole life she was set up to play herself and she could not figure it out. All she has to do was read up on some damn history for fucks sake. 37 YEARS OLD.

 

[BoosterDuck]

Guess both the left and the right are fans of alternative facts then.
Your personal beliefs on how citizenship should work are entirely irrelevant to how citizenship works in reality.

If, instead, you think there should be reform on the front (and I'd largely agree), then that's fine. However, in discussions pertaining to legally defined terms with SPECIFIC criteria, leave your 'wishlist for how things were' at the door and instead focus on 'how things are'... and perhaps 'how can we change things in the future'.

Well, 'how things are', there have only been 160 illegals detained by ice in the past week when there are 12 million (working, tax paying, home owning) illegals in America right now. If that's all Trump can keep catching every week then he won't be able to deport a fraction of the illegals by the time his term is done, and that's EVEN if he gets re-elected. So that's it then they're citizens they're here to stay screw the courts and laws we Rob Halfording this.

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