InsaneTiger
Member
I thought the game was too long and characters were poorly developed. The game is only similar to Uncharted in setting and mystical prophecy.
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I'm having a hard time playing Tomb Raider (2013)
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It's been pretty established that when users refer to XBL or PS+ games as free they obviously mean there's no additional cost outside the service.
Saying you get rented or owned games so long as you have a subscription is a bit too mouthy =/
jacksepticeye
Member
Cutscenes constantly cotradicting gameplay didnt help either. Struggling to stay alive or stand up in a cutscene and then when gameplay kicked in it was back to Rambo
yea, it kinda is surreal actually.
MaximoffZero
Banned
I thought it was awesome and one of the best games I played last year.
I've never played Uncharted though.
QuantumZebra
Member
Let me guess, this isn't the only game you love that you're sick of people saying it's terrible.
So you would say that watching videogame violence eventually desensitizes you to it?
I agree, even though I'm in the vast minority in these forums.
Lol, never fails... like clockwork.
these posts are driving me nuts reading through this thread (and others like it). instead of opening up the discussion or counter criticism, we get drive-by shitposts about haters and "well, I liked it and so did lots of other people!"
MaximoffZero
Banned
So you would say that watching videogame violence eventually desensitizes you to it?
I agree, even though I'm in the vast minority in these forums.
Being desensitized to video game violence =/= being desensitized to real-life violence. All it means is that you're more tolerant of violence in video games.
Nah, TR2013 hate is gonna stick longer because we have the holy trinity of TR haters (RIP Derrick): sublimit, RagnarokX and SalsaShark, who are going to remind us in every thread that this game is worse than cancer and if you enjoy it there may be something wrong in your head.
Bioshock Infinite/Skyrim/Mass Effect 2&3/Wathever AAA game had that phase too, but now people seem to be more positive about those.
And the gif comparison is laughable, the original TR is an amazing and seminal game, but the controls were shitty and unrealistic (an atletic human shouldn't control like a tank). It's like saying Top Gun for the NES is a masterpiece because you have to be careful to make a perfect land, or Superman 64 has amazing controls because it takes a lot of training to get it perfectly.
nevernamed
Banned
The game is fantastic. I finished it 100%, loved every minute of it. It has good amounts of action, and kept me engaged the whole time. Also didn't hurt that it ran nice and smooth and looked pretty good.
JimmyRustler
Member
Now we're up to making things up and/or exaggerating? First, Shantytown is like 1 hour in a 15 hour game. Did you only explore Shantytown or what?
Second, you do encounter a couple of shootouts throughout the game but only Shantytown sticks out as pure shooting sequence. Now if you blast through the game, just running from beginning to end, there will be shootouts all the time. But the way I see it, the game is not meant to be played this way. If you take your time, explore the environments and search for the collectibles more than half of the game is being played without a single shot being fired. If you play it like an action game this is exactly what you get. Don't blame the game, blame yourself.
And lastly... Yeah, the enemies have X-Ray vision once you're discovered. Bu hoo... You're describing like 80% of all action games. I personally prefer this over the MGS style, where enemies would just search for you a minute or two and then go back to normal. Very realistic and fun. In fact it is so fun that I always wanted to reload once I've been discovered - which I unfortunately could not in MGS3 (but that is another topic).
JimmyRustler
Member
It wasn't. It was a solid story fitting for the genre. Only thing I would blame the game's story for are the forgettable characters and the weak villain. The whole story of the island was quite interesting.
cascardian
Member
Very well put. The pacing just felt... exhausting. And I'm not going to give the developers credit for thematic overlap here.
By the way, the WR speedrun is an entertaining watch. Glitches abound.
But what is there besides the bad shooting? I was also trying to explore and see what's out there until I realised it's just a bunch of stupid filler that's completely pointless. Maybe some people view collecting all that crap as actual gameplay but I see it as pure filler. The puzzles should have been to progress or for some actual gameplay benefit no relegated to an awkward sideline in favour of poor shooting mechanics.
JimmyRustler
Member
Pointless? The diaries you can find basically tell you the background story. The other stuff gives you EXP which lets you get new abilities. That is not what I would call pointless.
Aside from that it's funny that finding collectibles is considered as part of the experience for many other games but here it seems to be pointless for whatever reason.
You guys are really trying hard, are you?
The combat is not better than Uncharted but apart from that I can co-sign everything you wrote. It's so sad that they had all the elements to make a great Tomb Raider game but they squandered it. They could have mixed up the puzzling and exploration into the main game with the gunplay then it could have been something decent.
PseudoViper
Member
The comments get harder and harder to read as I scroll down. Maybe I am a "fangirl," but I absolutely love Tomb Raider. The reboot is amazing. Truthfully, I would recommend the Uncharted series over earlier Tomb Raider games (probably except Under World), but the reboot is 1000 times better than ALL Uncharted games.
Back to OP, just turn the volume down and finish the QTEs. That way it's slightly less gruesome.
Back to OP, just turn the volume down and finish the QTEs. That way it's slightly less gruesome.
Mate, I'm not trying hard about anything. I'm just giving you my views on the game. If you loved the game and enjoyed it then more power to you.
Maybe the wonder of lighting Buddhist statues, GPS caches (?) and more salvage was lost on me. I wouldn't really consider that part of the core gameplay. Just as collecting those pigeons in GTA or treasure in Uncharted is not part of the core game.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I'm having a hard time myself due to nausea that occurs about 20 minutes into gameplay. Damned motion sickness.
Other than the over the top violence (that doesn't stop at failed QTEs and death sequences, no) the other big issue I had with it was the hand holding. I don't have a problem with games having some degree of hand holding nowadays, but Tomb Raider took it to ridiculous levels, especially considering the series' roots.
Every ledge you can climb is painted white.
Every platform you need to jump from has a red plank on it.
Even if you miss your jumps the game will artificially lenghten them so you still reach the place you were jumping to.
If you're stuck on one place for over 10 seconds Lara will tell you what to do even if you don't want her to.
If you're still stuck after that you have your survival instincts bullshit.
"Secret" tombs that aren't secret at all because whenever you get near one (as in, 100 feet near of one) the fucking game will tell you "map updated, secret tomb nearby". They only needed big neon arrows pointing to the entrance.
Add the overabundance of setpieces and shit exploding, and a half baked upgrade system (get experience by watching a cutscene! dat player required effort) and the whole game feels like a stew made of every single AAA element they could think of. Like they made it following a checklist of things that worked on other games.
Man, fuck this game. I see how someone could enjoy it, because it's still a beautiful game and it runs great even on PS3, But I thought it sucked.
Oh, come on.
There's a point in the game where you find a diary saying that
Literally five minutes later you actually meet the guy for the first time in the game, like 8 hours in, and
Is that supposed to be emotional? I don't know this guy, why should I care for him? Because a missable diary told me so 5 minutes earlier? That's awful writing.
Every ledge you can climb is painted white.
Every platform you need to jump from has a red plank on it.
Even if you miss your jumps the game will artificially lenghten them so you still reach the place you were jumping to.
If you're stuck on one place for over 10 seconds Lara will tell you what to do even if you don't want her to.
If you're still stuck after that you have your survival instincts bullshit.
"Secret" tombs that aren't secret at all because whenever you get near one (as in, 100 feet near of one) the fucking game will tell you "map updated, secret tomb nearby". They only needed big neon arrows pointing to the entrance.
Add the overabundance of setpieces and shit exploding, and a half baked upgrade system (get experience by watching a cutscene! dat player required effort) and the whole game feels like a stew made of every single AAA element they could think of. Like they made it following a checklist of things that worked on other games.
Man, fuck this game. I see how someone could enjoy it, because it's still a beautiful game and it runs great even on PS3, But I thought it sucked.
Oh, come on.
There's a point in the game where you find a diary saying that
the guy with the glasses has feelings for Lara.
he sacrifices himself for Lara.
Yeah exactly. Apparently there's not enough exploration, yet looking for items to upgrade equipment is pointless. Also, complaining about Lara's accent is just pathetic. I just don't get some people expectations. It's like they think they know how a Tomb Raider game should be, or at least better than Crystal Dynamics or anyone else.
It's not terrible. It's mediocre, and there's nothing wrong with that.
cascardian
Member
Indeed, and with much less focus on gunplay, one can imagine a competent health and survival system based on hunting, foraging and looting. Make bow, knife and machete the main weapons, present an open island full of tricky tombs and set her against various wildlife denizens, both realistic and mystical, with the odd human thrown in here and there. Don't make Lara turn from a weeping mess with a gaping wound into a veritable weapon of mass destruction in the span of an hour. Now write a story actually worth a damn, with characters that aren't cardboard cut-outs. Don't litter the game with Skinner-box amounts of meaningless AAA-design-cookbook collectibles and also tone down the set-piece and QTE usage. Finally, make traversing the environment even more of a challenge and, voilà, you've got a great game.
Heck, you've got fast-travel bonfires already, might as well make a Dark Souls while you're at it! ;-)
Anyway, the puzzles could have been so much more. The QTE-free usage of basic gameplay mechanics to figure out your environment should have been expanded much, much more. Simple as the puzzles by themselves were, I loved those short bits.
That's how I felt about it too. The game is very pretty and well-made, but it's EXTREMELY patronizing to the player. It constantly handholds the player through deceptively easy situations, but blows it all up (both literally and figuratively) so that it looks like you're doing something awesome when in reality you're only holding one or two buttons. Then it goes out of its way to congratulate you for being so amazing for clearing it.
The puzzles are the same way. If you want to stop and study a situation to figure it out yourself, the game does huge obvious flashes of the Instinct button within seconds. It won't even let you stop and try to do it yourself. It's fucking obnoxious.
And of course the game really shoves the whole "Lara is hurt and sad and scared" angle down your throat throughout the whole first half of the game. There is no subtlety at all there and it just gets irritating after a while.
really, I loved TR, actually just got it on PC for 7$ instead of getting the HD version. I beat it twice on the ps3 already and replaying it on super PC settings is amazing. I still hate missing the QTE's but I surely wouldnt stop playing because of it. The "close your eyes" idea is a good one. I just saw one death last night that was new to me and quite f'd up. but still great game also TR>UC 1-3
I have to admit no matter how good you are its easy to mess up on some of those slide down mud mountain and get impailed sections. good luck and I hope you give it a chance. I want a sequal.
That's how I feel. It's a generic, average third-person adventure game. This pisses me off for two reasons: a) I paid 40 quid for it b) it's Tomb Raider.
eot
Banned
The abilities are worthless for the most part, therefore so is XP. I don't know how you could possibly say that tiny amounts of pointless XP is a good incentive for exploration, it's just there so people with OCD can pad out their play time. There's no resource scarcity in the game, no proper mechanical reason to explore and even if there were the exploration and platforming is banal anyway.
Cave Johnson
Member
The diaries purpose is nullified thanks to the dissonance provided by the gameplay. Here, the diaries provide some sort of context, mystique and danger of the world but you, somehow, are as powerhouse character X to diminish that effect. XP on the other hand, is a terrible feature for gaming as it saturates and limits any sort of authentic depth alternatives can provide.
If you're going to use the double-standard argument at least provide your statement in proper context. What exactly are these "collectibles"? The collectibles [trophies] from the Batman Arkham series are completely different in design from the Assassin's Creed or the trinkets from Uncharted. Depending on how it is implemented, it can either be a meaningless collectathon to fulfill a shopping list for da "stats" or it actually serves some purpose like Batman providing more exposition in the game.
Does this apply to legitimate criticism, or do you truly believe this game is free from such remarks?
DOWN
Banned
While I don't think this game is better than Uncharted 2 and 3, I do absolutely think the combat is better. I'm almost shocked to hear anyone argue otherwise. Uncharted is openly extremely basic when it comes to combat. There's little in the way of making it a deep or well-blended experience to go from shooting one enemy to the next, or one battle to the next. The appeal of those Uncharted games has little to do with particularly strong combat, so much as it is appropriate. They revamped melee and little else for 3.
Tomb Raider is arguably more engaging and of greater breadth than Uncharted when it comes to combat.
I guess I'll just leave the rest at the fact that I'm not at all surprised by the wide critical acclaim that Tomb Raider has earned.
Tomb Raider is arguably more engaging and of greater breadth than Uncharted when it comes to combat.
I guess I'll just leave the rest at the fact that I'm not at all surprised by the wide critical acclaim that Tomb Raider has earned.
I thought it was incredibly mediocre. It's like the developers had a checklist of modern AAA game design tropes and just went with that.
Platforming that only involves climbing stuff - check
Cover based shooting system - check
Brown and gritty - check
Story that tries to be serious - check
Big setpiece moments with lots of nice visuals but barely any gameplay - check
Lack of challenge - check
Tries to be what 12 year olds view as mature - check
Platforming that only involves climbing stuff - check
Cover based shooting system - check
Brown and gritty - check
Story that tries to be serious - check
Big setpiece moments with lots of nice visuals but barely any gameplay - check
Lack of challenge - check
Tries to be what 12 year olds view as mature - check
lensoftruth
Member
Added strong language and extreme gore like everything else these days, it's kinda depressing.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Snuff films are pretty awesome.
It's best to let them vent. Based on sales, Tomb Raider isn't going to go back to the game it used to be so fans gotta deal with the death of a franchise.
That's mostly because this conversation has been had. It's been done about a hundred times in threads leading up to the game's release and in threads after the game was released. There's little to discuss now since everyone has more or less chosen a side. The detractors prefer to focus in on its faults: easy platforming, rote story, lack of puzzles and fulfilling exploration. The supporters stick to the game's merits: dark atmosphere and tone, Lara's characterization, chill gameplay, varied gunplay.
It's very easy to see why the game was well-received. It looks good. It feels good. The game is polished to a glistening shine. However, it's also very easy to see why someone (namely fans) would hate it. TR doesn't resemble any of its predecessors, going so far as to reject the gameplay principles that made the franchise such a hit in the first place. TR is very much the RE4 of the franchise.
Forget RE4's near-unanimous reception for a minute and take into account just how much a departure it was for the series. Even as everyone praised it, most die hard RE fans will admit to feeling just a tinge of disappointment playing the game -- deep down we all knew the series wasn't going to go back to where it came from. It had morphed into a full blown action game. The slow horror was gone. The story became a set-piece driven sideshow; Characters you knew and loved effectively disappeared from canon. The only reason most die hard fans tolerated it was because the game was incredible and, more importantly, something none of us had ever seen before. At the time, games didn't look that good and play that damn well (for console gamers).
TR doesn't really do that. Despite how polished the game is, it's mostly resting on the shoulders of giants. It's only unique trait is the auto-cover. Everything else comes from what other games had already established and therein lies the problem. The hyperbole is strong against this game because TR essentially morphed the franchise into the kind of game a lot of people had already come to despise. A series once dedicated to slow, precise platforming had turned into a shooter of the month. That's the way they see it.
I think it's fair. Personally, I love TR as much as I like Legends and Underworld, but that's just me.
NullPointer
Member
Nicely summed up imho.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
The game is a very solid and fun game in the style of Uncharted. Not sure what's terrible about it.
I mostly agree with this post, but it's been "haters gonna hate" since day one. Like you I can understand why people like the game, but the unbridled praise it's received has been utterly mindboggling and I haven't seen a compelling argument for why it's better than average. People that like the game think it's GotY or Game of the Generation material. Even beyond being a poor installment of an already established franchise, it doesn't do anything remarkably new or better than its contemporaries. The game isn't terrible in the sense that it is competently made but nor is it really good. I think a lot of the hyperbole from this side comes from how insulting the gameplay is to players. When a game is as patronizing as this one it's easy to take offense. The game is terrible in its treatment of players, basically. And it's part of a growing trend in the video game industry at large.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I actually liked looking for collectibles for those reasons.
In Uncharted I couldn't care less as I don't give a crap about trophies/achievements.
But I like exploring for stuff when it's audiologs to fill in the story like in this or Bioshock, or things to upgrade character, weapons, craft supplies like in this or The Last of Us etc.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I was told that the areas open up later on, so I tried playing more, however I forgot the other annoying factor that is the horrible shaky cam that gives me a headache. Is there anyway to make it steady (on PC)? A lot of people get headaches and nausea from this sort of thing so it's really inconsiderate of them.
Cave Johnson
Member
I actually find the original's death sequences more unsettling since the character has weight compared to the rag doll Lara of the modern era. It makes me appreciate the attention to detail CORE had on Lara making feel she is grounded in her world. The death animations here is your typical teen gore fest and the dissonance between game and its cinematics disconnect me from any violence perused on her.
Seraph_Nicholas
Member
I beat it at a friend's behest, and it's not... Unfunctional. It does everything it sets out to do successfully, if not gracefully.
The island had more work put into it then any other part of the game, and it shows. Everything that happens before you press start on the title screen is the best part of the game. I actually collected collectibles. It's unfortunate that they chose to put collectibles in combat areas, as the map design completely falls apart at the first chest-high wall. Explosive barrels here, cover here here and here, ooo, but a sniper vantage up HERE... It makes the combat more fun, if more overwhelming, but traversing it once everything is dead is my stand out low point of the whole game.
The Adventures of Lara and Friend (w/ Heelturn Guy and The Disposables) mostly bothered me because it was all so clearly trying to lay the foundation for a franchise. The story felt like a footnote to a bigger tale, even in the self-contained (FIRST) chapter about it. That I care about Lara Croft is almost taken as a given, and... I don't. Prior to this game, she was a punchline to me.
Said friend loved it, so I'll probably end up playing through Rise through him, and I hope it gets better. It could. Now that we're done pouring foundation, maybe we'll actually get something worth looking at.
The island had more work put into it then any other part of the game, and it shows. Everything that happens before you press start on the title screen is the best part of the game. I actually collected collectibles. It's unfortunate that they chose to put collectibles in combat areas, as the map design completely falls apart at the first chest-high wall. Explosive barrels here, cover here here and here, ooo, but a sniper vantage up HERE... It makes the combat more fun, if more overwhelming, but traversing it once everything is dead is my stand out low point of the whole game.
The Adventures of Lara and Friend (w/ Heelturn Guy and The Disposables) mostly bothered me because it was all so clearly trying to lay the foundation for a franchise. The story felt like a footnote to a bigger tale, even in the self-contained (FIRST) chapter about it. That I care about Lara Croft is almost taken as a given, and... I don't. Prior to this game, she was a punchline to me.
Said friend loved it, so I'll probably end up playing through Rise through him, and I hope it gets better. It could. Now that we're done pouring foundation, maybe we'll actually get something worth looking at.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Haha me too. With the accent and everything
MrFrankFontaine
Banned
Thoroughly enjoyed the game and the combat was miles better than UC, which happens to be the only thing that drags that series down.
ThatStupidLion
Member
Just ginished this game a few weeks ago... Id say play about 1/2-2/3s of game then put it down. You will have seen it all.
Game has terrible characters, story, and pacing.and an even worse ending/boss fight Fun adventure though overall.
Will play the sequel.....when its free on plus
Game has terrible characters, story, and pacing.and an even worse ending/boss fight Fun adventure though overall.
Will play the sequel.....when its free on plus
Spine_Ripper
Member
Not only is it not better, it is in no way "vastly superior" to Uncharted's gameplay. Can you run and shoot in TR? Can you pick up dropped enemy weapons? Are there any projectiles that you can use? Can you throw them back? Do you have access to more than just four basic weapons? Can you manually enter and exit cover and vault between objects while still remaining in cover? Can you roll over dropped ammo and pick it up without stopping midanimation?
The only thing TR does arguabely better is melee combat, which even then can only be unlocked through upgrades, for something that only results in THROW SAND FOR EASY MODE, since there is no consequence for doing the action, unlike entering melee in uncharted. The melee system in UC3 actually had a counter system as well, which TR also does. Again, how does anybody actually believe TR has "vastly superior" gameplay? The only upper hand TR has is better tracking of wall climbing, but even then, it's linear as hell and doesn't actually have any significance. Nothing wrong with liking TR over Uncharted, but don't be making hyperbolic statements about Uncharted to counter hyperbolic statements about TR being terrible.
My overall impression of Tomb Raider was a lot more positive than I had expected it to be, but yeah, the various deaths made me a little uncomfortable. The game seems to have some sort of weird voyeuristic obsession with Lara being in pain, injured, or killed. Showing some of that stuff would have made perfect sense and fit the game's semi-gritty feel and "survival" theme just fine, but they pushed it a lot harder than they needed to and it came off as kind of creepy.
Still a pretty solid game for the $12 I got it for. On my own arbitrary value scale I would say it's easily worth $25.
Still a pretty solid game for the $12 I got it for. On my own arbitrary value scale I would say it's easily worth $25.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
For me all that stuff doesn't come off creepy, it just comes off like Lara is a dumbass. Exactly how many times to do have to fall on your back before you learn how gravity works? How many times do you have to slide down steep muddy slopes until you realize they are too slippery to stand on? How many times do you need old, rotted, half-broken, precariously secured wood and/or ropes to break underneath you until you realize your body weight affects things? How many times do people/things have to get the drop on you until you realize you need to be careful? How many times do you need to
? It just never ends. She's a total dumbass and that is the cause of most of her suffering.
see magical shit going on before you consider maybe tampering with the mystical ancient relics is causing them to react
hurricanes
Member
I don't like the setting, too much blood and too dark for my taste, TR shouldn't be a horror game. I adore the scene when Lara looking down at the top of tower though. Other than that not so much, Uncharted and old tomb raider has many more likable setting/environment IMO.
For gameplay & control I think it is better than Uncharted games. I play it on PC with a Xbox 360 wireless controller, don't know if it is worse or better or just the same in console versions.
The brutal death scenes... I don't really get the idea why anyone will brother so much by them, older TR games are at the same level. It is the better graphic that make them seem more brutal. The scream in the other had was embarrassing...
For gameplay & control I think it is better than Uncharted games. I play it on PC with a Xbox 360 wireless controller, don't know if it is worse or better or just the same in console versions.
The brutal death scenes... I don't really get the idea why anyone will brother so much by them, older TR games are at the same level. It is the better graphic that make them seem more brutal. The scream in the other had was embarrassing...