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IMO, gaming has been going downhill since the 7th generation.

Im Living it up right now.
Like im actually kind of stressed at how im going to play Gravity Rush 2,KH2.8, NiOh and Persona 5 all Q1 next year.

Man im so excited.

This Gen already gave me my GOAT with Bloodborne and games that will likely end up in my top 10.

Cant wait for PSX which is rumoured to have a few JP games.
 
Tagyhag said:
I assume you don't do much PC gaming then?

There's some bullshit DLC/microtransaction practices out there sure, but overall we've never been getting so many quality games.
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This is how I feel - we're getting some cracking games - but I hate modern gaming 'practices'. Pay more to play early, season passes that cost as much as a game and so on.
 
If you only play AAA console releases, maybe. But if you play smaller, more interesting games, there has never been a better time for gaming. Never.
 
While I agree that there are some bullshit microtransaction and DLC practices, gaming as a whole has never been better.
I think your perspective is flawed because you are focusing on a very specific and narrow segment of gaming.
 
I agree with this opinion. All gamers seem to care about is graphics, fps and online crap. It's becoming too digital with less in quality as time moves forwards. Games these days don't leave behind legacies anymore like they did in the past.
 
StifflersMum said:
I miss some of the new stuff last gen had, if it were for atmosphere, gameplay or simply new concepts.

Things like "Journey", "Limbo", "Catherine", playing games with the WiiMote. Mario Galaxy felt much more ambitious than 3D World... Street Fighter was back again after a long hiatus. etc.

This gen everything feels so conservative and derivative.
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Don't forget delayed and remastered. I've purchased exactly six new games since the start of 2015. Thankfully, 2017 actually looks like an interesting year. Finally.
 
I just ignore most AAA and i still have more than enough games to play, feels the same to me if not better.
 
Gaming has been downhill qince the pc golden age of 1997-2001.
The amount of greatness released in this period will probably never be equaled. Far from it.
 
Why do people keep mentioning PC? Did any of you read the OP? He's clearly complaining about console gaming. PC isn't the solution for that.
 
I'd like to put my own spin on that. Back in the "old days", games weren't really something diverse, not talking about genres here but more about the way they promised to develop as a whole in the future.
Games seemed to get bigger and more complex, graphics and sound would improve indefinitely and we could always look forward to seeing improved versions of games that we loved back then. We would relive revolutionary games on and on. Someday we would have our Zelda, Final Fantasy; Resident Evil etc in a state that we couldn't even imagine at the time. Now we travel across the hyrule field on a horse, someday we would travel the planet Zelda. It would surely improve forever in that way and money wouldn't be a problem, I never heard about the money side of games development 20 years ago, so why should it be relevant?

I feel like that was my own way of thinking about videogames in general until last gen and until I've read about the industry on the internet and especially here on gaf.

That naive way of looking at games evolving over time went out the window with the internet introducing online multiplayer to gaming, it already existed back in the 90's but it really started to take effect on a large scale with last gen consoles.

To me that's when everything changed, as much as I loved playing online last gen, I now look down on the entire concept somewhat.
This change was inevitable in the end but I can't help but to think back at the way it once was with a little bit of regret. There is still a lot to like about gaming, even some AAA games and I'm very excited about VR at the moment so it's not a disaster for me, but it sure is way different than I expected it to be.
 
TLZ said:
Why do people keep mentioning PC? Did any of you read the OP? He's clearly complaining about console gaming. PC isn't the solution for that.
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How is it not a solution? You can have TV-orientated UI with the controller support. The only difference is that you need to boot into the Windows to launch Steam as opposed to booting directly into Xbox or PS menu. All the games work identically.

It is a solution.
 
This is not some PC-master race intended post:

But I don't agree with OP when looking at PC gaming.
Sure there's some shady DLC business going on with some games (cough cough Total Warhammer), but overall it's damn good.

Not to mention the variety.
I've been traveling for the last 2 years now and I'm forced to play games on a laptop (one that is not so powerful anymore, can't run Xcom 2 or Total Warhammer for example).
But the amount of varied and interesting games that are coming out weekly still amazes me.
Especially if you take a look at the indie games topic here on GAF, the amount of quality being delivered is pretty amazing and that's with me totally ignoring the AAA, high budget games.
 
TLZ said:
Why do people keep mentioning PC? Did any of you read the OP? He's clearly complaining about console gaming. PC isn't the solution for that.
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Even if we're just talking console gaming, I don't feel what OP says is true. Again, unless your gaming time is heavily reliant on AAA games then yeah, that may be true, but Japanese and Indie devs are putting in werk this generation.
 
I personally Disagree.

I enjoy modern gaming a lot. Lots of great games comming out in the retail segment and indies provide an almost never ending source of unique and creative games.
I also disagree with the Variety issue, I think there's lots of stuff to play for everyone and I get enjoyment from both gameplay oriented games as well as the more cinematic experiences.

Just in the comming 6 months or so I'm looking forward to playing:
Owlboy
Final Fantasy XV
The Last Guardian
Gravity Rush 2
Persona 5
Ni Oh
Nier 2
For Honor
Yakuza 0
Shadow Warrior 2 (whenever that comes to consoles).

None of those games are only about the graphics, and only For Honor is online focused (though it still offers a single player)
 
As much as I see the point of the OP, I think you can actually make a quantitatively objective argument that we're actually living in the best of times for gaming.

We've never had more platforms or software, both unique and wide ranging in scope.

And in terms of value, you can actually buy a low spec machine right now and enjoy even modem AAA games at a reasonable framerate and resolution. The games themselves get heavily discounted within months and you can afford a massive digital library that can be easily transferred to better hardware without concerns about backwards compatibility.

You can do much more in terms of online communities and streaming has never been easier.

You have a ton of involvement from gamers on forums, Facebook and numerous podcasts to enjoy discussion about games.

You can easily play PC games on a couch now with smaller form factors like the Alpha.

You've got VR as well.

You will soon have a console that basically doubles as a handheld.

It's overwhelmingly good to be honest.
 
Evolution of Metal said:
How is it not a solution? You can have TV-orientated UI with the controller support. The only difference is that you need to boot into the Windows to launch Steam as opposed to booting directly into Xbox or PS menu. All the games work identically.

It is a solution.
Click to expand...

But no, I will quit gaming if I have to play on PC. I'd have to spend $5,000 on my PC to run my $3,000 OLED HDR TV. It would fail pretty much every day and I'd have to do maintenance. Also I want to play on my couch, and I've heard that playing on PC is guaranteed to make you never be successful at a game. Like you actually can't complete games or compete in multiplayer.

Heavy sarcasm implied. However, a Gaffer legimitately told me he would quit gaming if he had to play on PC. Played BF1 with controller today on my PC sitting in my recliner and went MVP 43/5 one match, within top 3 spots the other 3 with a very solid K:D
 
I think it's fine tbh.

I mostly ignore what EA/Ubi and some other big publishers put out as I don't like their games anyway and I'm having a blast. Spent less than €50 on DLC in total so far and can't really say I missed anything by not buying other DLC.

I don't like these modern practices any more that you do, but there's so much stuff coming out that it's easy to ignore stuff you don't want. Best of both worlds.
 
I remember as a kid how expensive was for my parents to buy me a GameBoy game. For me its exactly the same in terms you mention, but much better as an experience.

So many fantastic games.
 
I think AAA games have declined a bit, but overall I disagree. I've never had more fun than I am right now, especially with VR games. I just don't buy AAA games until they are really cheap.
 
thenexus6 said:
There are so many games its impossible to play and keep track of all of them. Just seek out and enjoy what you like.
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This is a big part of the problem. It's over saturated. Like Atari. I've played a lot of recent games but I haven't played any close to the best on NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, GameCube. But maybe I'm just not playing the right ones.

I wish everyone talking about how it's the best gaming has ever been because of the indies would list games so we would know what they were talking about.
 
Chastten said:
I mostly ignore what EA/Ubi and some other big publishers put out as I don't like their games anyway.
Click to expand...

Same here. After EA killed Dead Space, Dante's Inferno, Visceral's Jack the Ripper game and the American McGee's Alice series I stopped caring about them as they have nothing else I care about. And Ubi have absolutely nothing I care about besides PoP '08.
 
Errr, no... About graphics, it was a so much bigger deal before. The PS2 actually didn't wanted 2D games to be sold. The mentality was wastly different in the gaming community.

But right now ? There is an indie sphere with incredible sphere and even if some people split on it, it's always less than before. The worst gen will always be the beginning of the 7th generation fpr me with 360 and PS3 being so big in graphics than studio like Factor 5 couldn't follow.... And everything was saved with the Xbox Live Arcade/Wii ware and then PSN/Steam came out.

The Wii U being a lot better than the Wii in term of Nintendo games is also a welcome addition for me.

So yeah, for me it peaked at the beginning of 7th gen and then today there were no better time for game.... There is everything you need ! From retro game to very big game at very little price.

In fact, the only way you can feel cheated by this gen is to be taken by the hype... This is how you will pay for pre-order, bullshit DLC and stuff like that... Just wait a little and everything will be alright...
 
I certainly think that the big publishers are a shadow of what they were in the PS2 era, aside from Nintendo the output of companies like EA, Square-Enix and Capcom has slowed to an absolute crawl and there are very few new ideas coming from those AAA publishers. The massive costs of cinematic games in the HD era have really stifled creativity at the big studios.

That said, I actually feel things have improved overall from the 360/PS3 era. We are seeing more mid-tier/indie games of high quality offered on console stores and the PC is the same as it always was. It's just a shame that so many legendary IPs will be buried forever because the big publishers can't afford to make more than one or two AAA games a year.
 
I think there are several biases which can contribute to this type of reasoning:

i) salient memory bias: we remember the best games from the past whereas the bad games in the present are more at the forefront

ii) diminishing returns on positive experience: this affects all media not just games. basically the idea is the first time you experience something like x, the reward is much better than the repeated instance over time. this feeds into nostalgic thinking and maybe leads to the reward of playing a particular type of game falling below a line in enjoyment where it isn't much fun anymore. so a game in a particular genre may need to be extraordinary for you to feel just OK about playing what would have had a much more positive effect if you had less experience. I used to watch a lot of Kung Fu movies and I could enjoy many of them - now with experience I feel critical about some of the ones I liked in the past because I've seen all the great ones and when some new ones come out that people are raving about like The Raid I don't see what the big fuss is about it

obviously there are industry trends that make big budget games more safe and the inertia of genre conventions even in independent games but the 90s were an exceptional time that can't be revisited. maybe with new input methods e.g. vr controllers but even then there's the question if it will lead to new "verbs" or just more fidelity in the ones we already have
 
Shai-Tan said:
I think there are several biases which can contribute to this type of reasoning:

i) salient memory bias: we remember the best games from the past whereas the bad games in the present are more at the forefront

ii) diminishing returns on positive experience: this affects all media not just games. basically the idea is the first time you experience something like x, the reward is much better than the repeated instance over time. this feeds into nostalgic thinking and maybe leads to the reward of playing a particular type of game falling below a line in enjoyment where it isn't much fun anymore. so a game in a particular genre may need to be extraordinary for you to feel just OK about playing what would have had a much more positive effect if you had less experience

obviously there are industry trends that make big budget games more safe and the inertia of genre conventions even in independent games but the 90s were an exceptional time that can't be revisited. maybe with new input methods e.g. vr controllers but even then there's the question if it will lead to new "verbs" or just more fidelity in the ones we already have
Click to expand...

While there could be biases involved, I think even if you look objectively, you'll find that there were many more advances going on in genres that there are now. I could make a humongous list of IPs from last gen that changed the gaming landscape. I suppose you could say there are many more indie games, but let's be honest: indie games can typically only offer so much. Small teams just don't have the budget and resources to make something full scale. There's also the fact that it's become over saturated. That's a bad thing because I feel like gaming can't move forward if everyone's not on the same page.

I also feel like the standards have dropped a lot. A company can keep putting out the same thing with a small tweak and people will accept it because there are just too many games to play. The value has decreased significantly. Games now get credit just for being something even if it isn't new or deserved. "It's a good one of those" has become a popular phrase. Sure, variety-wise and price-wise it's never been better, but you also have to look at the impact that's having on games as a whole. Gameplay advances have become stagnant. We are getting quantity over quality these days. It seems people are spending less time and money per game these days which impacts any deep criticism. Someone is happy that they got 5 hours out of a game and atleast an hour was good. Due to the sheer amount of games, it feels like the industry as a whole isn't stopping and learning from each other like they used.
 
Lothar said:
This is a big part of the problem. It's over saturated. Like Atari. I've played a lot of recent games but I haven't played any close to the best on NES, SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, GameCube. But maybe I'm just not playing the right ones.

I wish everyone talking about how it's the best gaming has ever been because of the indies would list games so we would know what they were talking about.
Click to expand...

Like, I enjoy shooters but I don't have the time, money or whatever to keep up with them all. I mean.

The Division
Overwatch
Doom
Battlefield 1
Titanfall 2
Call of Duty IF/ MW
Uncharted 4
Gears of War 4
Deus Ex
Bioshock Remaster
Quantam Break
Shadow Warrior

And the million others I didn't list.
 
I totally disagree. I grew up playing games starting with NES, and IMO, gaming is broader and better than ever.

I've certainly purchased and enjoyed more games this generation than at the same point in every previous one.
 
Resident Evil VII: Biohazard
For Honor
Persona 5
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Ghost Recon: Wildlands
Mass Effect: Andromeda
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
South Park: The Fractured But Whole
Red Dead Redemption 2
Destiny 2
Star Was Battlefront II
Assassin's Creed (2017)
Battlefield (2017)
Call of Duty (2017)
Prey....


all in 2017 alone... ARE YOU READY?!?!
 
The gen I feel is pretty whack. Dunno what it is, but I've been rather unimpressed. Thank goodness some indies have pulled through.
 
dampflokfreund said:
I disagree. Its a very hard time to be a Nintendo fan.
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Nintendo is such a weird company. They still make great games but they also still ruin what could be great games by the weirdest decisions.

"Hey, remember the combat system from Sticker Star? The one everybody hated and criticized? Let's make a new game with that!"

Lothar said:
I wish everyone talking about how it's the best gaming has ever been because of the indies would list games so we would know what they were talking about.
Click to expand...

Let me just list a bunch of amazing indie* games from 2016
Inside, Owlboy, Axiom Verge, Stardew Valley, The Witness, Superhot, Pony Island, Grow Up, Darkest Dungeon, Hyper Light Drifter, Stellaris, Salt&Sanctuary, Enter the Gungeon, Devil Daggers, Shadow Warrior 2, Abzu, Thumper, Banner Saga 2, Steam World Heist, Quadrilateral Cowboy, Call of Duty, Starbound, Overcooked, Firewatch, Samorost 3

And that's just off the top of my head

*those are games I'd say most people would classify as "indie". The term doesn't really mean anything anymore, so you might disagree with some. Also some might be from 2015
 
2014 and even parts of 2015 were weak for sure. But 2016 has been insane and we're getting the best year in gaming next year since 2007. Amazing time for gaming fans
 
Most of the time when these topics come up people don't look for games they might like and they aren't willing to try new things in addition to being completely focused on retail and retail only.


Also, so many demand new experiences but at the same time are annoyed that their favourite (often Japanese) publisher/series doesn't do the same thing they did 15 years ago.
 
The Technomancer said:
$60 console gaming has never been narrower and more full of bullshit

Good thing that's an increasingly minor fraction of the landscape
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This right here. I have a huge backlog due to the depth and variety of indie and second tier games on the market. I am also doing this at lower priced than ever before.

For me AAA $60 games are pretty much dead.
 
outunderthestars said:
This right here. I have a huge backlog due to the depth and variety of indie and second tier games on the market. I am also doing this at lower priced than ever before.

For me AAA $60 games are pretty much dead.
Click to expand...

Why is the price lower for indie games? This is kind of the problem I think. If we every got to the point where the average price of games was significantly lower, the quality would obviously mirror that. It's the same reason why mobile games are so cheap. Gaming is becoming cheaper, but the substance is also beginning to whither away. The $60 games that are supposed to offer the cutting edge with resources and budget to back it are becoming safe and anything below $60 is whatever you pay for it.
 
Sanctuary said:
I know, they are mostly just pixel-art Zeldas or Super Mario Brothers.
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Kind of insane that people still think this

Sir, come with me

Upcoming indie games in 2016 and beyond: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1278769
October Indie Games thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1290182
A list of threads about interesting indie games: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search....rteronly=1&exactname=1&searchuser=More_Badass

Seventy70 said:
Why is the price lower for indie games? This is kind of the problem I think. If we every got to the point where the average price of games was significantly lower, the quality would obviously mirror that. It's the same reason why mobile games are so cheap. Gaming is becoming cheaper, but the substance is also beginning to whither away. The $60 games that are supposed to offer the cutting edge with resources and budget to back it are becoming safe and anything below $60 is whatever you pay for it.
Click to expand...
Price doesn't mirror substance in games. An $10-$40 indie game can have better writing or story or RPG focus or deeper mechanics and complex gameplay or whatnot than a $60 AAA game
 
I have a very different view from the OP, I guess.

Just this week I bought a crapload of game bundles packed with games I want to play, large and small budget. The beginning of the renaissance of 3D platformers with Unbox. Stardew Valley, an incredible return to the height of Harvest Moon. Chroma Squad is a hilarious FFT style experience. Rebel Galaxy is a relaxing and pitch perfect space exploration and combat game.

In the last month I got Ori and the Blind Forest, a challenging and beautiful 2D platformer. I got Steamworld Heist, a brilliant sidescrolling strategy game. We got Civ 6, which I haven't even bought because I've barely scratched the surface of Civ 4 and 5, but by all accounts is an incredible game that's worthy of the brand. SOMA is one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had and I've been playing through that with friends watching.

Each of these games are what I would have paid $40-60 for ten years ago. Today, I pay a few bucks for all of them. Fuck, like half the stuff that GAF complains about on PS+ that we get for less than $4 a month, I would have killed to have that available on the GBA, DS, or PS2. And I would have played them for all that they were worth. Wrung them dry of content. All of the games I'm listing stand among their peers as either worthy entries or even the best of their respective genres. I don't have less time than I used to, I just have so many incredible, amazing, astonishing games that I can't possibly play them all

And I have an interesting perspective I don't see around here much: I feel that Gears of War in 2006 officially marked when video game graphics didn't need to get any better. So, let's just say I have a lot of games I just didn't get around to playing in the last 10 years which look, play, and sound amazing. I'm still planning to go back to The Talos Principle, and then after that I'll buy The Witness. I still have to go back to The Witcher 2 and then get The Witcher 3. Bioshock 2 needs beating, Batman Arkham Origins, Skyrim, Crysis, god do I need to keep going? Hell, speaking of Gears of War: I still need to play Gears 2, 3 and Judgment!

We're in the best fucking time to play video games. Sorry if you can't find anything to play in the greatest selection of video games we've ever had.
 
You forgot to mention all the broken/unfinished games being shipped. I agree OP, times were good before the west became dominant.
 
Dabi said:
Resident Evil VII: Biohazard
For Honor
Persona 5
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Ghost Recon: Wildlands
Mass Effect: Andromeda
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
South Park: The Fractured But Whole
Red Dead Redemption 2
Destiny 2
Star Was Battlefront II
Assassin's Creed (2017)
Battlefield (2017)
Call of Duty (2017)
Prey....


all in 2017 alone... ARE YOU READY?!?!
Click to expand...

I am certainly ready.

Ready to not buy or play a single game on that list, that is. Maybe besides Resi 7.
 
It's mostly the AAA, non-Nintendo part of gaming that has gone downhill. And this industry is more than that.
 
IvorB said:
You forgot to mention all the broken/unfinished games being shipped. I agree OP, times were good before the west became dominant.
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Oh yeah, that's another one! Games getting shipped broken or unfinished used to happen so goddamn much in the PS1/PS2 eras. So many games where I thought to myself, if only they could just put out a patch to fix this little issue that breaks a chunk of the game. So many straight up broken pieces of garbage. Nobody remembers those games...why would they? They were shit and will always and forever be shit.

Nowadays, games can do entire turnarounds. What was once you throwing your money away can now be redeemed down the line. It's incredible how games can finally bring themselves to the luster they deserve.

Combichristoffersen said:
I am certainly ready.

Ready to not buy or play a single game on that list, that is.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't give a shit about that list, 2017 still has a boat load of amazing games for me waiting. AAA gaming is just the tip of the iceberg these days.
 
patapuf said:
Most of the time when these topics come up people don't look for games they might like and they aren't willing to try new things in addition to being completely focused on retail and retail only.

Also, so many demand new experiences but at the same time are annoyed that their favourite (often Japanese) publisher/series doesn't do the same thing they did 15 years ago.
Click to expand...

There's just a complete disconnection to what is happening in gaming.

Gaming as a whole? The term "generation" has no meaning at all for the overwhelming majority of it today.

I mean, the entire structure of the OP continues so much irrelevance it makes me just shake my head.

The industry has, to a large extent, just moved right on. The biggest titles and real biggest publishers in gaming have absolutely zero shits to give about console generations.

The industry is not going to "implode" like OP wants so it can go back to being tied to other companies' proprietary hardware. There's no looking back. The future is happening.

OP can deal with it and find stuff OP likes, or just stop gaming.
 
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