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[Dr. Buni]

So's Ryu

That being said, let's go down the list of Nintendo's third party buddies.

• Sega (Sonic)
• Capcom (Mega Man, Ryu)
• Bandai Namco (Pac-Man)
• Level-5 (Professor Layton?)
• Altus
• Square-Enix

Ryu is comparable to Professor Layton in which way exactly? ^_^ The reason others are bringing up Wright is because of the similarities of his franchise with Layton's and the crossover I guess.

Anyways, I wouldn't mind Wright being in Smash, but if I had to choose one I would surely pick Layton.

 

[Neoxon]

Who knows? I thought it was that Nintendo of florida tweet? Saying it was a mii costume?

EDIT: Ah apparently it was a fan account. There's hope then!

So that's what caused the confusion.

 

[Molemitts]

This would be glorious.

 

[Oregano]

So's Ryu

That being said, let's go down the list of Nintendo's third party buddies.

• Sega (Sonic)
• Capcom (Mega Man, Ryu)
• Bandai Namco (Pac-Man)
• Level-5 (Professor Layton?)
• Altus
• Square-Enix

You missed Koei Tecmo. If I'm not mistaken Smash Bros already has a Zero/Fatal Frame/Spirit Camera trophy. I wonder who they'd put forward though; either Ryu or Ayane makes most sense.

 

[Ryce]

I don't buy this. Voice actors have a tendency to confuse projects, and Layton really isn't a big enough third-party character. I just can't see Smash Bros. boasting a guest roster of industry icons and then tacking Layton on at the end.

 

[theaface]

Beating the shit out of someone is a most gentlemanly pursuit.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

You missed Koei Tecmo. If I'm not mistaken Smash Bros already has a Zero/Fatal Frame/Spirit Camera trophy. I wonder who they'd put forward though; either Ryu or Ayane makes most sense.

Nintendo owns the rights to all the Fatal Frames after IV, so those trophies aren't technically third party.

 

[TimmiT]

So's Ryu

That being said, let's go down the list of Nintendo's third party buddies.

• Sega (Sonic)
• Capcom (Mega Man, Ryu)
• Bandai Namco (Pac-Man)
• Level-5 (Professor Layton?)
• Altus
• Square-Enix

Atlus is part of Sega :V

 

[braves01]

So's Ryu

That being said, let's go down the list of Nintendo's third party buddies.

• Sega (Sonic)
• Capcom (Mega Man, Ryu)
• Bandai Namco (Pac-Man)
• Level-5 (Professor Layton?)
• Atlus
• Square-Enix

I would love to see the response to Persona characters getting in Smash.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Atlus is part of Sega :V

Jack Frost as the 2nd Sega representative would sit better with me than Shadow or Knuckles. Ew.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

I'm a huge persona fan but I fail to see how those characters fit in the smash universe. Are they gonna put a gun to their head and summon monsters to attack? Throw Mario in a TV?

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I would love to see the response to Persona characters getting in Smash.

Persona won't because it's really a playstation series. Yes, I know Q exists, but they're not going to choose some small spin off title for a character rep. You'd get the SMT4 guy, or one of the SMT X FE characters.

Meh, I don't really care about Layton. I'd much prefer Phoenix Wright instead.

Well good luck with that. Layton was one of the biggest well known symbols of the DS, and the biggest non nintendo game series on a nintendo handheld in a long time. PW is only somewhere over 5.3 million units sold, while Layton is passed 15m, so the two aren't even in the same ballpark of popularity.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I'm a huge persona fan but I fail to see how those characters fit in the smash universe. Are they gonna put a gun to their head and summon monsters to attack? Throw Mario in a TV?

Persona won't because it's really a playstation series. Yes, I know Q exists, but they're not going to choose some small spin off title for a character rep. You'd get the SMT4 guy, or one of the SMT X FE characters.

 

[BassForever]

I'm a huge persona fan but I fail to see how those characters fit in the smash universe. Are they gonna put a gun to their head and summon monsters to attack? Throw Mario in a TV?

The better question is which Persona character has enough ties to Nintendo to warrant a smash slot considering the only Persona game on a Nintendo system is Persona Q

 

[Ryce]

Also...

He's removed the tweet and put his account to verified followers only.

That's not true. The Tweet is still up, and his account has always been protected. You need to follow him to see his Tweets.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Also...


That's not true. The Tweet is still up, and his account has always been protected. You need to follow him to see his Tweets.

Oh, ok.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

*image*

Yep, perfect proof that even multiple games in a series isn't enough to keep you from being dropped from smash. Thanks for that. Last I heard atlus didn't have a developer that was best friends with sakurai, and so anyone from persona 3/4 is a non starter with just Q. Again, if you get an atlus character, it will be someone from SMT4 or SMT x FE.

 

[Regulus Tera]

The better question is which Persona character has enough ties to Nintendo to warrant a smash slot considering the only Persona game on a Nintendo system is Persona Q

Yep, perfect proof that even multiple games in a series isn't enough to keep you from being dropped from smash. Thanks for that. Last I heard atlus didn't have a developer that was best friends with sakurai, and so anyone from persona 3/4 is a non starter with just Q.

The point was that this whole "playstation characters"/"characters from mature games" as a counter-argument should have been thrown out of the window nine years ago. I don't think a Persona character will make it in, either.

 

[Dr. Buni]

I would love to see the response to Persona characters getting in Smash.

Ew.

Jack Frost would be dope, though. Especially since he would represent the SMT series, which have more presence on Nintendo systems than the Persona series.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I don't buy this. Voice actors have a tendency to confuse projects, and Layton really isn't a big enough third-party character. I just can't see Smash Bros. boasting a guest roster of industry icons and then tacking Layton on at the end.

Well, Layton has a few things going for him

- Is an iconic DS series and was up there with Brain Age and Nintendogs as being influential towards the success of the DS.
- Layton (the character, not the series) hasn't appeared on any other system other than Nintendo.
- People at Level-5 and Sakurai are apparently friends.
- Layton was published and advertised outside of Japan as a Nintendo franchise and many people just assume he is a Nintendo character.

Yea, Layton doesn't fit as a third party when compared to Ryu, Sonic, etc, but he does fit in Smash as just a character.

Maybe our notions of the "criteria" for third parties is off base and characters that maybe aren't iconic game characters, but are influential and well known on Nintendo platforms have a chance as well.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Metal Gear is a premier gaming franchise, Persona is niche. I guess they could try and make a character from a mature series work like Snake in Brawl but the chance of this happening has got to be pretty low. This is why Layton as a playable character seems like a fake rumor to me, he's not renown. Ask the casual fan or kid who Megaman/Sonic/Pac Man/Ryu are and they'll know but Layton? They'll have no idea and Nintendo puts well known 3rd party characters in smash.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

The point was that this whole "playstation characters"/"characters from mature games" as a counter-argument should have been thrown out of the window nine years ago. I don't think a Persona character will make it in, either.

It's not the same case though is it. There isn't an equivalent character Nintendo could have chosen as a Metal Gear rep. Atlus has multiple Nintendo exclusive representatives to choose from before they would ever consider anyone from P3 or P4.
If there was an Atlus Character added, it would be Flynn or whoever SMTXFE has as the main character, not someone from a sony series.

Metal Gear is a premier gaming franchise, Persona is niche. I guess they could try and make a character from a mature series work like Snake in Brawl but the chance of this happening has got to be pretty low. This is why Layton as a playable character seems like a fake rumor to me, he's not renown. Ask the casual fan or kid who Megaman/Sonic/Pac Man/Ryu are and they'll know but Layton? They'll have no idea and Nintendo puts well known 3rd party characters in smash.

You're massively underselling Laytons popularity there.
There's a dragon quest game that did better than it, but even with DQ9 (hilariously, also a level 5 game, they really cleaned up on the DS), which did well over 80% of its sales in Japan, it's the number 2 selling third party DS game. And 3rd. And 4th.

I have to ask then: Which 3rd parties are more deserving that have Nintendo hardware as the main focus? I can't think of anyone else.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Metal Gear is a premier gaming franchise, Persona is niche. I guess they could try and make a character from a mature series work like Snake in Brawl but the chance of this happening has got to be pretty low. This is why Layton as a playable character seems like a fake rumor to me, he's not renown. Ask the casual fan or kid who Megaman/Sonic/Pac Man/Ryu are and they'll know but Layton? They'll have no idea and Nintendo puts well known 3rd party characters in smash.

Do you think the casual fan or kid knows who Snake is, though? Or even some of the obscure first party characters in Smash (like say, Roy)?

I mean, I am on the camp that the leak is fake, even though the idea of Layton in Smash is fantastic, but Layton not being "renown" isn't a valid argument against the leak, I think.

If there was an Atlus Character added, it would be Flynn or whoever SMTXFE has as the main character, not someone from a sony series.

Or you know, ATLUS' mascot, Jack Frost. Or even an Etrian Odyssey character/class.

 

[rhandino]

!!!

Him or:

Could be dreams come true but GAF would seethe to hell and back because another sword user T_T

EDIT: The best part is that Jack Frost could have one crazy moveset that represents ATLUS as a whole thanks to Demone-hoo and Raiho... Sakurai please T_T x 2

 

[balladofwindfishes]

.

Snake is an iconic, well known, gaming icon. Persona isn't Metal Gear and is a niche series.

Do you think the casual fan or kid knows who Snake is, though?

The same could be said for Ryu and Mega Man, but nobody would doubt they're iconic.

 

[Golnei]

Going for a character specific to SMT would be an awful decision. Persona is niche overall, but it's undeniably Atlus' premiere franchise and the sole defining aspect of their brand. If they need to choose a character relevant to Nintendo, one which appears in both the Persona games and spinoff titles present on Nintendo consoles would make far more sense; and for that Jack Frost is one of the better choices.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Do you think the casual fan or kid knows who Snake is, though? Or even some of the obscure first party characters in Smash (like say, Roy)?

I mean, I am on the camp that the leak is fake, even though the idea of Layton in Smash is fantastic, but Layton not being "renown" isn't a valid argument against the leak, I think.

Yes I think the casual video game fan is aware of Snake or Metal Gear; he's an iconic character that has been around since the 80s and the series is popular. Like I implied there is a distinction between 1st and 3rd party characters. Smash is about Nintendo fan service so they have no problem throwing in their own relatively obscure characters like Marth, Roy, ROB, Pit, Duck Hunt, etc as a love letter to us. However, every 3rd party character has been a gaming icon from an extremely well known property. Ryu, Pac-Man, Sonic, Mega Man...these are all on a completely different level compared to Layton or a Persona character.

 

[sörine]

Yea to Layton! He was one 3rd party character I really really wanted!

Now we just need Klonoa, Ryu Hayabusa, Slime Family, Bomberman, Shiren and Bayonetta. And a Rathalos boss/hazard.

 

[Kyzer]

I don't buy this. Voice actors have a tendency to confuse projects, and Layton really isn't a big enough third-party character. I just can't see Smash Bros. boasting a guest roster of industry icons and then tacking Layton on at the end.

Layton goes hand in hand with modern Nintendo franchises, your idea of what's big enough is not based on any kind of reality, probably just your emotions. Layton is successful. Also you really think dude was working on"some project" and just randomly thinks its "super smash bros" for no reason? Cmon man. He's not dumb.

 

[Ryce]

- Is an iconic DS series and was up there with Brain Age and Nintendogs as being influential towards the success of the DS.

Brain Age and Nintendogs sold 33 million and 24 million units on the DS, respectively. They were monsters. The DS Layton games sold 8 million units combined. That's pretty good, but you're comically inflating its success. Over a dozen DS titles have outsold Professor Layton.

- Layton (the character, not the series) hasn't appeared on any other system other than Nintendo.

- Layton was published and advertised outside of Japan as a Nintendo franchise and many people just assume he is a Nintendo character.

There's no reason to assume that helps a third-party character's chances. It certainly hasn't mattered up until now.

- People at Level-5 and Sakurai are apparently friends.

Source?

Yea, Layton doesn't fit as a third party when compared to Ryu, Sonic, etc, but he does fit in Smash as just a character.

That's just the point -- he's not a big enough deal as a third-party character. He'd probably be in Smash if Nintendo owned the IP, but they don't. Layton is a 100% third-party property owned by Level-5.

Maybe our notions of the "criteria" for third parties is off base and characters that maybe aren't iconic game characters, but are influential and well known on Nintendo platforms have a chance as well.

Anything is possible, but all five Smash Bros. guest characters so far have been long-running gaming icons whose series have sold tens of millions of copies.

I'm not trying to go out of my way to seem contrary -- I just don't think any of your arguments necessarily fall in Layton's favor. Whenever there's a "leak" people try to retroactively justify a character's inclusion. Rayman made so much sense in my head as soon as I saw the Smashified video ("Nintendo published the game in Japan!"), but now I'm embarrassed for ever having felt that way.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Yes I think the casual video game fan is aware of Snake or Metal Gear; he's an iconic character that has been around since the 80s and the series is popular. Like I implied there is a distinction between 1st and 3rd party characters. Smash is about Nintendo fan service so they have no problem throwing in their own relatively obscure characters like Marth, Roy, ROB, Pit, Duck Hunt, etc as a love letter to us. However, every 3rd party character has been a gaming icon from an extremely well known property. Ryu, Pac-Man, Sonic, Mega Man...these are all on a completely different level compared to Layton or a Persona character.

Yeah, I don't agree with you. Snake is iconic, but nowhere near as iconic as Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man and Mega Man. And people have already pointed out how close the relationship between Nintendo and Level-5 as well as the fact the Layton series was advertised as a Nintendo franchise outside of Japan, so Layton being Smash really isn't an alien idea, even if the leak is fake.

I don't even know why people are considering Persona in Smash, though. There's one Persona game for Nintendo systems, the series is as niche as it gets, etc. I certainly could see an ATLUS representative being added to Smash, but not a Persona character. Jack Frost is imo the most likely candidate.

 

[Thud]

Jack Frost vs Pikachu

Heehoochu

 

[sörine]

The DS Layton games sold 8 million units combined.

Over 15 million actually.

Layton outsold Metal Gear last gen.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

The Atlus mascot would be awesome. I mean after all....

 

[MrSaturn99]

Also...


That's not true. The Tweet is still up, and his account has always been protected. You need to follow him to see his Tweets.

Oh wait, so he DIDN'T close his account?

That puts a damper on things.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Source?

I don't even remember what site I saw it on. Probably another one of those "Sakurai said" things that is poorly translated or taken the wrong way.

It might have been this that someone took to mean Sakurai was friends with them.

I thought there was a stronger link than that, I guess I mis-remembered.

 

[Coffee Dog]

What big time gaming icons are left to add? After pac-man, snake, sonic, megaman, and Mr street fighter, everyone you consider adding is going to be on a lower level.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Layton goes hand in hand with modern Nintendo franchises, your idea of what's big enough is not based on any kind of reality, probably just your emotions. Layton is successful. Also you really think dude was working on"some project" and just randomly thinks its "super smash bros" for no reason? Cmon man. He's not dumb.

Do you really think Layton as a character or franchise is on the same level as the other 3rd party characters? If the IP was owned by Nintendo then I'd find his inclusion more plausible but every guest introduced to the series thus far can be considered iconic and Layton is not. I'm not saying there is an absolute zero chance but it is highly unlikely in my mind regardless of what Level-5 and Nintendo have done over the past few years together.

 

[braves01]

What big time gaming icons are left to add? After pac-man, snake, sonic, megaman, and Mr street fighter, everyone you consider adding is going to be on a lower level.

 

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

ITT: Broken sarcasm detectors

 

[Kouichi]

What big time gaming icons are left to add? After pac-man, snake, sonic, megaman, and Mr street fighter, everyone you consider adding is going to be on a lower level.

Slime from Dragon Quest.

 

[Forkball]

So's Ryu

That being said, let's go down the list of Nintendo's third party buddies.

• Sega (Sonic)
• Capcom (Mega Man, Ryu)
• Bandai Namco (Pac-Man)
• Level-5 (Professor Layton?)
• Altus
• Square-Enix

Koei Tecmo (Dynasty Warriors, Ninja Gaiden, DoA etc.) is a big one. From that company, Ryu from Ninja Gaiden is probably the most appropriate. But we already have so many sword users. And so many Ryus.

Honestly I could see Layton and Jibanyan getting in. Yokai Watch is the biggest third-party franchise for Nintendo in a long time and is a pop culture sensation in Japan. Plus the game is coming to the US in November, which is probably around the time of Star Fox Zero if we are to speculate that Wolf + others will come near its release.

REAL ASS POSSIBLE THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS:

Layton (Level 5)
Jibanyan (Yokai Watch, Level 5)
Phoenix Wright (Capcom)
Monster Hunter/Those cats (Capcom)
Eggman (Sega)
Chocobo (Square Enix)
Moogle (Square Enix)
Slime (Square Enix)
Ryu (Ninja Gaiden, Koei Tecmo)
Simon Belmont (Konami)
SNAKE (Konami)

 

[GenG3000]

What big time gaming icons are left to add? After pac-man, snake, sonic, megaman, and Mr street fighter, everyone you consider adding is going to be on a lower level.

Simon Belmont is still big, one of the major gaming franchises from the 8 bit to the HD era, from console gaming to portables and one held dearly by 30-something Nintendo fans.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Slime from Dragon Quest.

See, yeah, you could add slime or a chocobo (or some other FF rep), but they are almost assuredly big steps down from sonic, pac-man, etc, especially in global appeal.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

What big time gaming icons are left to add? After pac-man, snake, sonic, megaman, and Mr street fighter, everyone you consider adding is going to be on a lower level.

Slime and Simon Belmont

Also Snake needs to be brought back.

See, yeah, you could add slime or a chocobo (or some other FF rep), but they are almost assuredly big steps down from sonic, pac-man, etc, especially in global appeal.

Slime is incredibly iconic. Japan has slime merchandise everywhere.

 

[Gucci Messiah]

What big time gaming icons are left to add? After pac-man, snake, sonic, megaman, and Mr street fighter, everyone you consider adding is going to be on a lower level.

You are right but I would think 3rd party characters like Rayman, Ryu Hyabusa, Bomberman, Simon Belmont, Dr. Robotnik, etc would get priority over Layton who seems more suited to be an assist trophy.

 

[Village]

Jack Frost as the 2nd Sega representative would sit better with me than Shadow or Knuckles. Ew.

Id rather have shadow or knuckles

 

[Gucci Messiah]

Yeah, I don't agree with you. Snake is iconic, but nowhere near as iconic as Mario, Sonic, Pac-Man and Mega Man. And people have already pointed out how close the relationship between Nintendo and Level-5 as well as the fact the Layton series was advertised as a Nintendo franchise outside of Japan, so Layton being Smash really isn't an alien idea, even if the leak is fake.

I don't even know why people are considering Persona in Smash, though. There's one Persona game for Nintendo systems, the series is as niche as it gets, etc. I certainly could see an ATLUS representative being added to Smash, but not a Persona character. Jack Frost is imo the most likely candidate.

That's fine, you don't have to agree, there's nothing I'm going to be able to say to convince you that Snake is an iconic video game character. Is he as recognizable as Mario or Sonic? Nope. Is he on a similar level to Mega Man and Pac-Man? I would say so to the average fan considering he has been a popular character since the 80s and had games on all 3 current console manufacturers hardware. You can say "but Level 5 is close with Nintendo" all day but that doesn't excuse the fact that Layton is a niche character from a niche franchise that is handheld only and doesn't have nearly the same name recognition of the other 3rd party characters. It's not impossible to fathom him being in Smash, just highly improbably based off of the other guest characters we have gotten.

I think the Persona thing was wishful thinking, not a serious expectation. I'd be pumped if some of the cast from P4 got into a Smash game but they don't fit the pattern of guest characters, just like Layton.

EDIT: Maybe niche is a bad word to use for Layton. I understand that it is popular but I do not think it is on the same level as other franchises we have gotten. I could be wrong, this is just my opinion.

 

[GenG3000]

Slime is a big mascot, but do people really want to play as him? I don't think so. It doesn't have much value out of cute merchandise.

 

[Clefargle]

Also Snake needs to be brought back.

This is imperative. With snake, the 3rd party roster is united under one game. Plus he is the most unique newcomer to brawl with his interesting play mechanics