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In defense of tank controls

C

Caipirinha

Member
Is it just me or did tank controls and fixed camera angles lend a kind of atmosphere and character to PS1/2 era games that is often missing now?

Horror games in particular, I feel like not being able to double back flip and whip out a grenade launcher and zoom into iron sights, but rather be forced to carefully maneuver yourself out of danger, actually added a lot to the tension and panic. Ditto the fixed, claustrophobic camera angles which you basically never see anymore.

But even action/adventures like Tomb Raider. There was an art to getting to grips with the way Lara moved, rotating her inch by inch to get that perfect jump and being punished for any miscalculation. Now.. aside from there being basically no tomb raiding, it's all contextual UI elements flashing "PRESS X TO GRAPPLE HALF WAY ACROSS THE MAP LOLZ".

Maybe I've just got rose tinted goggles? But I never had a problem with it back in the day and now it's gone I feel like the franchises that had it (TR, RE) are significantly lesser, partly because of this.
 
Tank controls don't need defending. They are a perfectly valid design choice with clear benefits and obviously just as clear limitations.

I cringe every time I see someone whine about them in games where they make perfect sense.
 
There's definitely a place for them. Sometimes controls limit you so you can have a more vulnerable experience in an appropriate setting but people are quick to assume it's just 'bad controls' because they can't be arsed to learn them or prefer feeling like Bayonetta in every game.
 
In an age of dual analogue sticks and pads with more buttons than most people know what to do with tank controls are a thankfully fading anachronism that may one day vanish all together.

Sure, Tomb Raider may have clicked for some people with TR1 controls...but then you look at Anniversary and go "Ohhh, well that just works better."
 
Resident Evil Revelations 2 has contemporary TPS controls and it still has a great RE vibe and feel to it.

No need to defend tank controls.
 
TheMoon said:
Tank controls don't need defending. They are a perfectly valid design choice with clear benefits and obviously just as clear limitations.

I cringe every time I see someone whine about them in games where they make perfect sense.
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This.
Killzone 2 threads drove me fucking nuts.

I just opened a can of freakin worms didn't I -_-
 
The fixed camera angels only really works for slow paced games, like Resident Evil. It can add a lot of tension to the game, but it sacrifices player control.

I think in modern times using a scripted camera with more modern controls is a better option. Ico is a great example it has a camera which is mostly scripted by the developer, leading to some visually interesting scenes, but movements still feels very natural.
 
I enjoy tank controls. I never grew up with them. It's quite an immersive way to control characters. Having to deal with the logistics of not only moving around but doing it without being clumsy feels realistic, in a way.

Actual real-life walking involves more decisions and work than what common videogame controls show.
 
I played through RE0 to CV for the first time earlier this year and I never had a problem with the tank controls. I didn't even feel the need to use the "R button to run" control scheme that was included in the GameCube ports.

I then went and hated RE4, but that's a different beast altogether.
 
doofy102 said:
I enjoy tank controls. I never grew up with them. It's quite an immersive way to control characters. Having to deal with the logistics of not only moving around but moving around without being clumsy feels realistic, in a way.

Actual real-life walking involves more decisions and work than what common videogame controls show.
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Exactly, it's hard to explain but tank controls seem to give more of a sense of presence in the world, and obviously more of a sense of panic when there is danger around.
 
Caipirinha said:
Horror games in particular, I feel like not being able to double back flip and whip out a grenade launcher and zoom into iron sights, but rather be forced to carefully maneuver yourself out of danger, actually added a lot to the tension and panic.
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Resident Evil 4 exceeds at this. At first, the tank controls makes the player feel exactly like you said, forced to maneuver and escape, finding a better position. And throughout the game, this gameplay mechanic doesn't change, but you, as the player, becomes more skilled and can react to situations even worse than the ones at the beginning of the game, with mastery.
 
Tank controls suck, especially og TR where the controls were absolute dogshit, even for the PS1. Games that are designed to be hard are fun; games that are hard because of their own shortcomings are not.
 
I hate it when a game (ie the main character) can't keep up with my reflexes, its frustrating. That said, I can see why this is a deliberate design choice in certain genres that would otherwise fall apart with Ninja Gaiden like movement.
 
They are archaic, a relic from the past that existed due to limitations. Those limitations are now gone so they are too, there is no place for them in game design today. It is silly to complain about old games having them as they needed to, but it is equally as silly to still want them in new games when they are no longer needed.
 
tensuke said:
Tank controls suck, especially og TR where the controls were absolute dogshit, even for the PS1. Games that are designed to be hard are fun; games that are hard because of their own shortcomings are not.
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Rock climbing and ledge jumping is the majority of those games, and shouldn't be easy imo.. Tank controls made tomb raiding challenging in a way that I thought felt reasonable.
 
Press left to turn left, right to turn right, down to walk backwards, up to walk forwards. That's it, there's nothing counterintuitive about it, it doesn't really add an extra layer of challenge to the game either, as long as the game, the enemies etc. are designed around your moveset. In RE for example you encounter slow walking zombies most of the time and often it's better to navigate past them. Tank controls are perfect for this kind of enemy encounter design.
 
I respect them, they were a important part of the past game design, and some games used it really well like the first RE trilogy, but i still don't like them and can't adapt myself to use it. Like, it just don't fell right to me to not be able to control my movements, but thats just me, I didn't grow up playing these games so its much harder for me to use them. Remakes and such should be like Grim Fandangon HD or REmaster, were they give the option of using either tank controls or "normal" ones.
 
Listing to people complain about tank controls in the Resident Evil games drives me nuts, the tank controls are an absolutely essential part of the experience. You don't make a game like REmake by happen stance. Having a character that's really slow and awakward to turn, plays an important role in ensuring the player is constantly vunerable and combat a constant hindrance.

But more importantly it allows for thouse brilliant fixed camera angles, everything's framed from this weird cctv like angle that makes everything feel weird, alienating, disorienting and perhaps best of all for a horror game, uncomfortable. That shit doesn't work if you have to constantly change stick direction every time it moves.The whole world feels cold as the camera drily jumps from position to position, rarely if ever, panning. You often can't get a good look at the thing you want, causing a constant source of uncomfortable tension.

You know there's a enemy in the room, you can hear it but you can't see it
Is there an enemy round the corner ? Won't know unless you go round

It's fucking brilliant, you kill the tank controls and you kill the game
 
Charlouie Jonesman said:
In RE for example you encounter slow walking zombies most of the time and often it's better to navigate past them. Tank controls are perfect for this kind of enemy encounter design.
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Sorry, but no.

All RE games have had faster enemies, even zombies in RE3 for example. Tank controls do not make getting around an enemy easier. The top tactic to bypass a zombie is to juke them into a grab animation then run past. Tank controls have no bearing on that.
DodgyTaZombie said:
you kill the tank controls and you kill the game
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If you remove them from a game built around them, yeah. However a new RE game should be able to be made with out them and if it sucks it isn't because it isn't fixed-angle tank controls.

It just sucks.

REmake 2 really shouldn't have tank controls, and if they can actually design a good game around proper controls then it won't suck.
 
DodgyTaZombie said:
But more importantly it allows for thouse brilliant fixed camera angles, everything's framed from this weird cctv like angle that makes everything feel weird, alienating, disorienting and perhaps best of all for a horror game, uncomfortable. That shit doesn't work if you have to constantly change stick direction every time it moves.The whole world feels cold as the camera drily jumps from position to position, rarely if ever, panning. You often can't get a good look at the thing you want, causing a constant source of uncomfortable tension.

You know there's a enemy in the room, you can hear it but you can't see it
Is there an enemy round the corner ? Won't know unless you go round

It's fucking brilliant, you kill the tank controls and you kill the game
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I don't understand how you need tank controls to have a fixed camera angle
 
I respect that tank controls have a place in history, but I would never want them back. The clumsiness of tank controls really fail to capture the grace and fluidity of human movement which leads me to find games that have it to feel alien at times. For what tank controls add in tension and drama by making your character feel helpless, it takes away five times over by just how unnatural it makes your character look and feel during play.
 
People that cant use tank controls are bad. Grim Fandango took the piss with it's tank trophy and it's easy as hell to move around, even in 2015.
 
You know what's crazy about tank controls?

They work perfectly fine on tanks... BECAUSE THERE'S A FUCKING TURRET ON THE TANK.

Imagine driving a tank where the main gun is fixed forward. Now instead of been an awesome armored vehicle of doom and destruction, it's just a big dumb machine of stupidity.

Yeah, that's tank controls from the 90s.
 
mp1990 said:
I respect them, they were a important part of the past game design, and some games used it really well like the first RE trilogy, but i still don't like them
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Well said. I don't think anyone - well okay, most people here - would dispute the historical significance of tank controls. I still don't have to like them in a game you're trying to sell me on in 2015.
 
Zaptruder said:
You know what's crazy about tank controls?

They work perfectly fine on tanks... BECAUSE THERE'S A FUCKING TURRET ON THE TANK.

Imagine driving a tank where the main gun is fixed forward. Now instead of been an awesome armored vehicle of doom and destruction, it's just a big dumb machine of stupidity.

Yeah, that's tank controls from the 90s.
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The fact pretty much every game except the original RE used a snap to target aiming system makes this point moot.
 
Stallion Dan said:
The fact pretty much every game except the original RE used a snap to target aiming system makes this point moot.
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Ah. Well, my most vivid memory of tank controls was the original RE. Anyway, I'm happy to see that era gone. It'd be like making a platformer in this age with Castlevania 1 style controls. Which on the one hand is a valid method of design... and on the other hand is just outdated and anachronistic and something that devs have moved away from for good reason (because it only feels fun to a small percentage of players, while been mainly frustrating to the rest).
 
Don't like them on people. Feels like I'm fighting the controls rather than fighting the critters in the games. Just awkward.
 
Naw fuck tank controls. They come from an era where devs needed 360 degrees of movement from d-pads, it wasn't a design choice but a neccesitty. With the advent of analog controls tank controls are obsolete. If your game is intentionally designed around having shitty controls then that's just bad game design.
 
Tank controls always felt like a crutch to manufacture "horror" for the gamer. Those Resident Evil games are great, but the controls are just frustrating because you feel like you can't do exactly what you want to do. That's one of the most frustrating things in gaming for me.

I don't find that they make the game any scarier at all, and at some points, it takes the "scary" away because I'm more focused on how angry I am with the controls.

In 2015, there is no more need for those awful controls when you're controlling a human.
 
CaptainGyro said:
I don't understand how you need tank controls to have a fixed camera angle
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You don't NEED one, but it does somewhat enforce limitations most of which would work against a horror experience, the biggest one is that any change in angle will change the characters direction, games that don't use tank controls but do used fixed camera angles often give you one large overlook, possibly with some panning, keeping most camera switches in loading screens where the player is ideally not holding a direction along with informing the player when a camera switch is coming. Think of games like final fantasy 7 and God of war, it's often a very zoomed out and clear look at the environment.

For most games this is fine, but resident evil is a horror game, that doesn't ever want you to get a good look at anything, most angles aren't a good look at an entire room, you frequently go down corridors with multiple angles non of which are the direction the player is facing, it's intentionally disorienting without being impractical.

There's a corridor near the being of remake that upon entering gives you a rather awkward up close of the player characters front, a few steps in the game cuts to an outside few from the side showing the character pass some windows, a few more steps and the camera jumps to the end of the corridor with the room the corridor leads to visible put somewhat obscured, whilst an unknown noise leaks out the room. Navigating this with tank controls allows traversal without constantly stopping to revaluate what direction "up" is, imagine the whole game like that, but know you have to deal with enemies, in a game with limited saves and enemies with high damage values.

OR I could have just said this
Boney said:
They make perfect sense for fixed Camara angles that change abruptly. Allowing you to always have control of your character.
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Instead of rambling like an idiot
 
They were designed in an era with no analogs and having to move in a 3d world with D-Pad was kinda bad especially on fixed camera situations. Overall they had their place in history but I think they aren't a separated mechanic like let's say the ATB system , they are more like an old version of something that can be done better nowdays and without the need to sacrifice the game's movement .
The old RE games feel atmospheric because they are, they'd feel the same even with today's control options .
 
There's no justification for tank controls in modern gaming (unless you're driving a tank).

You can easily have that slow restricted movement with contemporary gameplay.
 
KyleCross said:
It just sucks.

REmake 2 really shouldn't have tank controls, and if they can actually design a good game around proper controls then it won't suck.
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What people have been screaming for with REmake 2 is giving RE2 the REmake treatment. Meaning same design, new/altered puzzles/expanded geography. What you're suggesting might as well be an entirely different game, a reimagining of RE2 that utilizes new game design. That would not be "REmake 2" but something very very different. Might as well just make a wholly new game at that point.
 
I have no issue playing a game with tank controls. But I always got the feeling they were due to limitations that don't really exist anymore. That said, they're still nostalgic to feel every now and then.
 
They make perfect sense for fixed Camara angles that change abruptly. Allowing you to always have control of your character.

I don't understand how people struggle with them but are ok at controlling a dual analog game which is much more demanding
 
I tried to play REmake with "modern" controls and found it really disorientating on camera switches. With tank I know up is always walk forward from your current position so it makes more sense in fixed camera angle environments.

I really miss fixed cameras, they have a different vibe to the current standard behind the player/shoulder cams. Tank controls are still the best way to cope with changing camera angles.
 
People seem to to be missing the fact the limited movement was a vital part of the gameplay.

If you had an enemy moving close to you then you had a fight or flight decision to make, fight and see if you can kill it before it grabs/attacks you, or turn away and run. Not time for both.

This is completely gone in REmake HD, you can let an enemy get right up into your face where in the original release you would get punished for it by being grabbed or hit, but in REmake HD you can instantly be facing the opposite direction and running away.
 
TheMoon said:
What people have been screaming for with REmake 2 is giving RE2 the REmake treatment. Meaning same design, new/altered puzzles/expanded geography. What you're suggesting might as well be an entirely different game, a reimagining of RE2 that utilizes new game design. That would not be "REmake 2" but something very very different. Might as well just make a wholly new game at that point.
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Well said.

Also as you said, tank controls are as valid a design choice as any other. Even in 2015, if a new game came out that utilized tank controls correctly, I'd be all over that.
 
I think they're fine as long as there's a quick-turn. I remember playing some games with fixed camera angles that didn't have tank controls, and I'd often turn back the way I came once the camera orientation changed on me.
 
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