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In your opinion has Nintendo lost 'it'?
- Thread starter Hollywood
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Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Deg said:
I can't believe you laughed and gave a nothing response! Oh, I can.
It's true. Third party "adult" support on the GC is better than on the N64.
soundwave05
Member
Mama Smurf said:
Overall though I'd say the N64 had better "adult" games.
GoldenEye + Perfect Dark > Resident Evil 4
And lets not forget, GoldenEye wasn't exactly yesterday, we're talking about 8 years ago, Nintendo's had a lot of time to improve, but really they've stayed about the same.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Well that's a matter of personal opinion. I'd take Metroid Prime and RE4 over Goldeneye and PD any day (shame about the lakc of multiplayer, but even then it sneaks it), but these things still don't come down to Nintendo's choices.
Rainbow L33T
Member
You can't really expect Nintendo to fill the void of each big games that 3rd parties launch for other hardware.
Where would Sony be last fall without MGS3,GTASA and all those other 3rd party games aim at the adult market?
Simple fact is,Sony is in charge now.Most 3rd party won't go anywhere else with their big title until someone somewhere comes out with something really different than Sony and work very well.
And for the N64/GCN games list,need I remind that there's still probably a good 12-18 months of good Nintendo games coming for that system.With a Fire Emblem and Advanced War game still to come.
Where would Sony be last fall without MGS3,GTASA and all those other 3rd party games aim at the adult market?
Simple fact is,Sony is in charge now.Most 3rd party won't go anywhere else with their big title until someone somewhere comes out with something really different than Sony and work very well.
And for the N64/GCN games list,need I remind that there's still probably a good 12-18 months of good Nintendo games coming for that system.With a Fire Emblem and Advanced War game still to come.
soundwave05
Member
Actually I think if Resident Evil were exclusive on the XBox, they'd sell more than the GameCube versions even including Japan.
Ninja Gaiden is not exactly a huge or well known franchise.
Even RE: CV put up bigger numbers on the Dreamcast than either of the GCN RE games.
Ninja Gaiden is not exactly a huge or well known franchise.
Even RE: CV put up bigger numbers on the Dreamcast than either of the GCN RE games.
soundwave05 said:
PD was shit. And a huge dissapointment. It says somehting if a ton of less hyped games outsell.
mj1108 said:
Thats true. MS are idiots too. They came in with clean slate.
Rainbow L33T said:
Thats true. Also Nintendo havent even bothered trying to attract older gamers at all.
soundwave05
Member
SantaCruZer said:
Rating is irrelevant. Madden NFL and Gran Turismo are rated E after all while Smash Bros. is rated T.
Besides even if you wanted to use that as your criteria you'd have to include Turok 1, Turok 2, Turok 3, and Conker on the N64 side.
The fact that its even debatable is embarassing, because Nintendo had what? 6-8 years to figure out they needed more content for older players? And the N64 had the limited cartridge medium.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Though the Turok games were shit, so you wouldn't want to.
soundwave05
Member
Mama Smurf said:
Highly subjective, since Turok and Turok 2 were well recieved by the press and both easily trounced any GameCube second or third party game in sales.
More importantly games like Turok 2 in addition to GoldenEye helped the N64 at least carve out a smidgen of popularity with older consumers.
GameCube has no sway whatsoever with this audience, so when good "adult" content arrives on the GCN, like RE4, it undersells big time.
SantaC
Member
soundwave05 said:
gee, if it's one thing Nintendo has improved it's the Mature games this generation. I don't think you can deny that, but somehow you just did.
I am not saying It's a great selection, but It's better than N64. RE4 could be the goriest game of them all (xbox and ps2 included)
soundwave05
Member
SantaCruZer said:
Actually are you sure about that?
Seems to me that there were more M-rated exclusives on the N64 than the GCN.
The only M-rated exclusives on the GCN I believe are the RE and ED games. The N64 had Perfect Dark, Conker, South Park, and the Turok series.
I don't know how that really qualifies as an improvement in terms of overall content. Like I said one step forward for Nintendo, followed by one step backwards.
They got the surivial horror right this gen, but forgot completely about FPS. And that's why they haven't improved. They've simply kept up their own status quo, which isn't good enough today and it wasn't good enough six years ago when Sony took a big portion of Nintendo users.
It seems like Nintendo really doesn't know what to do with thier own franchises. They hand them over to others to make, and the ones they update themselves have an air of futility to them (Retro/Metroid excluded). It's as if they were really racking their brains trying to come up with ways to reinvent Zelda or Mario, and all they ended up doing was giving us the same basic gameplay with a few ancillary changes that manage to dilute the core gameplay they had to begin with. Cel-shade Zelda and put it on an ocean? Give Mario a waterpack? They added another rider to the karts in Double Dash, but failed to improve on just about everything else. Mabye they do need new hardware to innovate.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
soundwave05 said:
I still think that's because of the rivals rather than anything Nintendo have done. The arrival of a third strong competitor really fucked Nintendo up when it came to people buying a second system or buying the most powerful system or the one with the big multiplayer game of the generation.
That's not to say Nintendo couldn't have done better, just that the improvements they made (and there were improvements) weren't enough to compete in the new market.
soundwave05
Member
Mama Smurf said:
Yes bingo. They haven't done enough to compete in the market.
They've improved in some areas, taken steps backwards in other areas. Which means really they haven't improved all together as a company.
Nintendo is no more edgier or "cooler" today than they were 8 or 9 years ago. This is due to competition and its also due to them not doing enough in the face of competition.
No one at Microsoft or Sony forced Nintendo to cell shade Zelda or launch with a "kid approved" launch library, or stop investing in FPS titles, or stop working with Western developers.
soundwave05
Member
SantaCruZer said:
Even if you didn't go by exclusives, I think it'd be awfully close, which is pretty sad considering the N64 had fewer games and the cartridge format.
There's other stuff on the N64 like Shadow Man and Resident Evil 2 which aren't exclusives but are M-rated.
It shouldn't even be close though. The GameCube has a worse "kiddie" perception than even the N64, and that isn't all because of Microsoft entering the market, a lot of it is due to the fact that the GameCube simply doesn't have the content to be taken seriously as a machine for older players.
Half arsed improvements. They deserve it.
Revolution will be a joke. They cant hype it up. They cant even figure out what to do. Sounds like GC2 so far except even stupider.
DS isnt so bad. If Nintendo can use it as a stepping stone on the road to GBX to attract more adults then that would be great.
Revolution will be a joke. They cant hype it up. They cant even figure out what to do. Sounds like GC2 so far except even stupider.
DS isnt so bad. If Nintendo can use it as a stepping stone on the road to GBX to attract more adults then that would be great.
Rainbow L33T
Member
There's still a year at least in the gamecube life left with some really good software from Nintendo this year,so why not compare both list when everything is done.
SantaC
Member
soundwave05 said:
Ok it shouldn't be close, but the GC is ahead, and we talked about improvements. Even if it's little, an improvement is an improvement.
Throw in Resident Evil 4 which is more gory than anything released on N64.
Hell, I would like to know what xbox and PS2 game (so far) that are more gory than RE4. All the bosses and some enemies have moves that rips Leon apart.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
soundwave05 said:
Ok...of course I've been saying this for quite a lot of posts now without the bingo, but ok.
You've still yet to convince me that Nintendo have taken steps backwards. I see your FPS point, but I think that's all down to the loss of Rare. Perhaps if Nintendo hadn't gone into this gen expecting Rare to no doubt put out at least 2 PD titles for them, they'd have done a good FPS themselves.
I'm just talking about third party exclusive titles. And, once again, the GC launch games had a hell of a lot more third party content, both adult and otherwise, than the N64 did.
I honestly don't think Nintendo worked with western developers any more last gen then this.
GC launch was excellent but that was under Yamauchi. Iwata is Michael Jackson. GC launch was nicely varied but where did all that go? Nothing to follow it up. ED was shit. New studios making more kiddy games.
What bullshit are they trying to feed us with 'we make games for everyone'! :lol
I'm not being funny. Every post i have made here is dead serious. Just to be clear.
What bullshit are they trying to feed us with 'we make games for everyone'! :lol
Speevy said:
I'm not being funny. Every post i have made here is dead serious. Just to be clear.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
I don't normally resort to this sort of thing...but god Deg's one of the most useless members I've ever seen. People can disagree with me, that's fine. I like it even, it often leads to a good discussion, as you can see here with soundwave.
But these short comments which aren't backed up with any decent thought and even contradict themselves just add nothing.
But these short comments which aren't backed up with any decent thought and even contradict themselves just add nothing.
soundwave05
Member
Well if that's Nintendo's attitude, to pay themselves on the back for incremental improvements (if you really call selling 7 million copies of GoldenEye versus the 1.5 million RE4 is probable to get an improvement), they're going to get ROCKED next generation.
This industry is too competetive for such a weak coroporate disposition.
Microsoft and Sony are going to eat these guys for breakfast next generation.
I think Revolution will sell primarily to Nintendo faithful, but as far as non-Nintendo faithful in the 14-35 year old demographic (ie: 70% of the market), they're in big, big, big trouble. Even if they had a clue as to how to market to this segment of the audience they don't have the content for it.
What they offer on the GameCube is not even close to enough, its not even in the same ball park.
This industry is too competetive for such a weak coroporate disposition.
Microsoft and Sony are going to eat these guys for breakfast next generation.
I think Revolution will sell primarily to Nintendo faithful, but as far as non-Nintendo faithful in the 14-35 year old demographic (ie: 70% of the market), they're in big, big, big trouble. Even if they had a clue as to how to market to this segment of the audience they don't have the content for it.
What they offer on the GameCube is not even close to enough, its not even in the same ball park.
SantaC
Member
soundwave05 said:
I agree that Nintendo is in bad shape with the Gamecube, but It's too early to jump to conclusions with the Revolution, since we still don't have any idea what it is. Sadly, many people (including the industry and media) seems already have written off Nintendo's next console. (probably based on the bad sales of GC)
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
soundwave05 said:
Hey, there's no disagreement here (well, I'd say you can't plan for Goldeneye success, you can say which game will probably sell well, but to that degree...you can never be sure. Tomb Raider, Goldeneye, GTA3, Halo...hard to predict)!
As for next gen, I think Nintendo are making a decent move. It could turn out a complete failure, but as we're all agreeing, Nintendo have proven themselves unable to compete directly with MS and Sony. So trying to go in a completely different direction to them, not even trying to compete on the same issues...it's not the worst choice.[/QUOTE]
soundwave05
Member
SantaCruZer said:
Even if the system is really, really good and improves on the GameCube in just about every way, I think Nintendo is in for a very, very tough ride with Revolution.
The Dreamcast was a terrific system too but there's no trophy in this business for fixing mistakes five or six years down the line. Consumers are not impressed with that.
Never has been, never will be (ask Sega or Atari).
Its really a brutal industry.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Deg said:
Ok, but at least I'm contributing things other than laughing at people you don't agree with, agreeing with people you do and saying "They are going down!" or some variation after it, or contradicting yourself and making baseless assumptions.
SantaCruZer said:
Thats good. I hope it flops hard. I like how they are downplaying graphics again. Its not going to be the most powerful console obviously but its an example of how dumb they still really are. On would think they would know the obvious.
Oh and isnt the new Godfather game coming to GC?
SantaC
Member
soundwave05 said:
Yeah I agree here also, but even if Nintendo has been very stupid this generation, they still have played their cards better than SEGA or Atari. As of today, Nintendo is profitable and have 6 billion in cash reserve. They just need to get their act together again.
soundwave05
Member
As far as trying to appeal to older gamers, I think when Nintendo is willing to set aside a few high-quality dev teams to consistently make content for older consumers over the course of several years (not one Eternal Darkness and "bye bye Silicon Knights!" situation) and Nintendo supports these games with good marketing campaigns ...
THEN
They should be given a pat on the back. Then maybe they'll earn some "street cred".
But they shouldn't be given a pat on the back for their effort these past few years. Its not good enough. And consumers see through it, no one was buying the GameCube as some "cool/gen X" system like Nintendo was trying to market it as with Cube commercials.
The worst thing as a consumer brand that you can be is a "poser". Consumer's can spot a poser from a mile away. Nintendo is like Michael Jackson trying to act like a gang member in the Bad music video. No one takes it seriously.
THEN
They should be given a pat on the back. Then maybe they'll earn some "street cred".
But they shouldn't be given a pat on the back for their effort these past few years. Its not good enough. And consumers see through it, no one was buying the GameCube as some "cool/gen X" system like Nintendo was trying to market it as with Cube commercials.
The worst thing as a consumer brand that you can be is a "poser". Consumer's can spot a poser from a mile away. Nintendo is like Michael Jackson trying to act like a gang member in the Bad music video. No one takes it seriously.
Rainbow L33T
Member
There's always a first to something.Not because Atari or Sega failed that this will happen again.To my understanding,they are still in better shape than both of them combine.
If they really make bad mistakes with their next machine,now they should be shot,simple.But I ain't gonna think this way until it happen.I'll still give them an open mind,something everyone should until we see the real deal.
If they really make bad mistakes with their next machine,now they should be shot,simple.But I ain't gonna think this way until it happen.I'll still give them an open mind,something everyone should until we see the real deal.
soundwave05
Member
I give Nintendo more than the benefit of the doubt.
I'll buy pretty much any of their hardware just because I know their games are on it.
But this isn't true for 90% of the market place.
Most people are not going to give the Revolution the benefit of the doubt or come to it with an "open mind". Infact, many will have a very closed mind towards it, which makes Nintendo's job much, much harder. Its entirely possible that Revolution could flop even if its a good system and a large improvement over the GCN.
I think what they might do with Revolution is make it so different/weird that it catches people off-guard.
I'll buy pretty much any of their hardware just because I know their games are on it.
But this isn't true for 90% of the market place.
Most people are not going to give the Revolution the benefit of the doubt or come to it with an "open mind". Infact, many will have a very closed mind towards it, which makes Nintendo's job much, much harder. Its entirely possible that Revolution could flop even if its a good system and a large improvement over the GCN.
I think what they might do with Revolution is make it so different/weird that it catches people off-guard.
Rainbow L33T
Member
Well,it must have a big impact from the get go,that I'll agree with.If people see the new system and are not impressed or surprise by it,it's over.
Bristow said:
I dont think its cool. Its just the truth.
Why should an adult gamer like them? Adults get screwed for buying a Nintendo console. It would be great if Revolution was great but be honest. From what we are seeing and hearing do you honestly beleive Nintendo will even try to attract adults? They are not going to.
Rainbow L33T said:
From the way Nintendo are talking. Its already game over. They dont want adults. Iwata said so himself as did Reggie.
Deg said:
I don't know. We know next to nothing about the Revolution. They claim to be taking the system in an opposite direction from Sony and MS, but what does that mean exactly?
Also, I'm 25 and I suppose I consider myself as an adult. I love the Gamecube. My wife and child love the Gamecube. There's plenty on the system to appeal to us all and that ranks up high in my book as a consumer. You could say there are plenty of family orientated titles on other consoles as well, but are they as good as Nintendo brand products? No, not at all.
For people who have the funds and willingness to own every console, there is simply no debate. However, I'm a one-man console kinda guy and I always look towards Nintendo first.
Haven't come away disappointed yet and I'm sorry that you apparently have.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
There is also a problem with Nintendo going up against two business geniuses in Microsoft and Sony, and the fact that third party support has determined the later system wars (And Nintendo is losing more and more support as time goes on. They have no real alliances 
). There was just zero reason to develop on the GC over the Xbox or PS2.
I expect that trend to strongly continue next-generation, because Nintendo's even seemed to turn Capcom off of them, and Capcom usually clings on any system 'til the bitter end.
). There was just zero reason to develop on the GC over the Xbox or PS2.I expect that trend to strongly continue next-generation, because Nintendo's even seemed to turn Capcom off of them, and Capcom usually clings on any system 'til the bitter end.