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[Mama Smurf]

From the way Nintendo are talking. Its already game over. They dont want adults. Iwata said so himself as did Reggie.

Good god, you're just so....I don't want to get banned. Right, time to find my ignore list, I haven't used it since Greekyboy all that time ago, never thought I'd feel the need to again.

 

[soundwave05]

I don't feel screwed by buying a Nintendo console, but I know a lot of my friends (and we all grew up as part of the NES generation and we all loved the Nintendo brand as kids), have a more critical reaction to Nintendo today.

There's generally the "Nintendo really fucked up with the N64 or GameCube" or "what the hell happened to Nintendo?" type comment which inevitably follows.

 

[Deg]

I don't know. We know next to nothing about the Revolution. They claim to be taking the system in an opposite direction from Sony and MS, but what does that mean exactly?

GC2. 'We are a game system, we will focus on games'. They havent learnt. They havent shown why we should trust them anymore. Nintendo have made it clear they dont want to be bothered about games for adults.

I'm 21, and don't feel screwed at all for buying a Nintendo console.

Thats cool. Although they have real problems with ages older than that. You're above their average.

 

[lexi]

I dont think its cool. Its just the truth.

Why should an adult gamer like them? Adults get screwed for buying a Nintendo console. It would be great if Revolution was great but be honest. From what we are seeing and hearing do you honestly beleive Nintendo will even try to attract adults?

Fuck I hate this anecdotal shit. I'm 21, have a large circle of gamer and non-gamer friends. Whenever somebody throws a party, it's a sure bet the Gamecube will be up and a game of Smash Bros/Mario Party/SC2 will be playing. Playing Mario Party while somewhat inebriated is definitely one of my finer gaming moments.

Don't assume your own perceptions of adults and gamers upon everyone else.

 

[SantaC]

I don't feel screwed either, because there are always some great 1st party games from Nintendo worth playing even if the 3rd party support is horrible. I generally don't care if the game has mature content or not. I play what's fun. Games are entertaiment. And yes, I am over 20 years old.

 

[soundwave05]

I think Nintendo actually has an easier time with the 18-35 year old posters on a message board like this.

Even Nintendo's harshest critics here like MAF or Drinky will generally try out or buy the bigger Nintendo releases, simply because this board has video game connosieurs.

Just like car enthusiasts, they may be critical of a certain brand, but chances are they know 10x more about that brand than what an average consumer does.

Its the average type of consumers in the 18-35 year old categorey where Nintendo just really tanks. I get a lot of negative comments from friends the few times the conversation turns to current Nintendo stuff.

 

[Deg]

Fuck I hate this anecdotal shit. I'm 21, have a large circle of gamer and non-gamer friends. Whenever somebody throws a party, it's a sure bet the Gamecube will be up and a game of Smash Bros/Mario Party/SC2 will be playing. Playing Mario Party while somewhat inebriated is definitely one of my finer gaming moments.

Don't assume your own perceptions adults and gamers upon everyone else.

I dont. I enjoy GC. I love Mario Party, SC2 etc. GC was an excellent purchase for me due to multiplayer games (no.1 reason). I even brought DKJB today. It sucks for mature content however. Havent played RE4 yet. Xbox and PS2 have much better mature content than GC.

I do appreciate Metroid Prime 1 & 2 but they have zero appeal to most people.

 

[lexi]

I dont. I enjoy GC. I love Mario Party, SC2 etc. GC was an excellent purchase for me due to multiplayer games (no.1 reason). I even brought DKJB today. It sucks for mature content however. Havent played RE4 yet. Xbox and PS2 have much better mature content than GC.

I do appreciate Metroid Prime 1 & 2 but they have zero appeal to most people.

I suppose that's a subjective opinion in some respects, and factual in others. Would you consider Mario Party a mature game? Sure it's got basic themes, bright colours and a soundtrack to reflect that, but all the same, it's a fun game to play.

I merely wanted to point out your innaccurate speculation that adults get screwed upon buying a Nintendo console.

 

[Rainbow L33T]

Well,of course most people see gamecube and the N64 as fucked up system,pretty much all the big third party support from Japan is now on the PS2.I don't blame their reactions.And developers made the right thing by doing that.

But in the last 2 years Nintendo seems to want to built back bridges with those japanese developers.

Of course,if they don't want Nintendo back,they have pretty much the faith of that company in their hands.Nintendo can only do so much.

Having a good console and support from them,the rest will come from others.

 

[Deg]

I suppose that's a subjective opinion in some respects, and factual in others. Would you consider Mario Party a mature game? Sure it's got basic themes, bright colours and a soundtrack to reflect that, but all the same, it's a fan game to play.

I merely wanted to point out your innaccurate speculation that adults get screwed upon buying a Nintendo console.

Most adults.

 

[SantaC]

I suppose that's a subjective opinion in some respects, and factual in others. Would you consider Mario Party a mature game? Sure it's got basic themes, bright colours and a soundtrack to reflect that, but all the same, it's a fan game to play.

I merely wanted to point out your innaccurate speculation that adults get screwed upon buying a Nintendo console.

hehe all games get mature when you drink

Mario Kart DD is 3 times better when you're drunk with friends.

 

[soundwave05]

I don't think its really anecdotal evidence.

I mean you look at the sales figures ... the Resident Evil games have underperformed while Eternal Darkness, MGS: The Twin Snakes, 1080 Avalanche, NBA Courtside, Wave Race: Blue Storm, and P.N. 03 have flopped out right.

Metroid Prime 1 sold reasonably well, MP2 has to be seen as a bit of a dissapointment though.

Games aimed at older consumers on the GameCube are definitely underperforming I would say.

I think Soul Calibur 2 is one success story, but it probably would've been the worst selling of the three versions without Link.

 

[SantaC]

I don't think its really anecdotal evidence.

I mean you look at the sales figures ... the Resident Evil games have underperformed while Eternal Darkness, MGS: The Twin Snakes, and P.N. 03 have flopped out right.

Metroid Prime 1 sold reasonably well, MP2 has to be seen as a bit of a dissapointment though.

Games aimed at older consumers on the GameCube are definitely underperforming I would say.

Well to be fair, MP2E just isn't as good as MP1. It's still a great game, but MP1 was remarkable when it came.

 

[soundwave05]

Well to be fair, MP2E just isn't as good as MP1. It's still a great game, but MP1 was remarkable when it came.

That may be true. Although I have a bad feeling that even if MP2 was better than MP1, it'd end up selling less.

RE4 is far better than the other two RE games on the GCN, yet sales in Japan are actually a bit behind RE0. I think in the US it'll outperform RE Remake and 0, but not by much.

I hate to say it, but this same game if it were released on the PS2 or XBox under similar circumstances, I'd have to say it would sell far better.

 

[Deg]

Yup. Nintendo are in their worst position ever when it comes to adults. I think they'll be fine with kiddys however. GC was doing better with older age groups in the beginning. EA now arent even releasing some games on GC.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Does anyone know how RE4 has sold? Hope word of mouth did it well. I guess it's sort of tarnished in this argument because Nintendo didn't make it and it's not exclusive, but it seems like that "big" game for adults that you buy a system for. Too late I guess.

Those other games really aren't good examples, their middle of the road at best. GAF aside, no adult is going to buy a GC based on trash like 1080 or PN03. I bought one for ED, but I already had the other two consoles.

I think basically adults buy, and will continue to buy at least some, Nintendo consoles because of the main IP's. Mario platforming and Zelda. I don't think people really care about Metroid, it could dissapear next gen and the casual gamer wouldn't miss it that much. I'm not that casual and they do nothing for me beyond their polished exterior.

Nintendo is stuck. They make money off of being kid friendly and re-exploring their established IP's. At least they have those, they never really have to take a real gamble and they can stay away from 3rd parties IP and commercial licenses as much as they like. At the same time, it makes them seem a bit stale when they don't develop to the next level, like they so obviously haven't this gen. Basically, you see even their best IP's like Mario and Zelda being forced into a template of the series. That's fine because their some of the best games ever made...it's not that great because the magic that set the foundation for all this is not as fresh as it was.

If they can stay above water and find some designers to replace the old guard (Miyamoto, good luck!) they'll probably recapture some of that uniqueness some day.

 

[soundwave05]

The other big difference I think with the N64 is that the N64 got more "big" games aimed at older consumers earlier on.

GoldenEye, perhaps the "cornerstone" game for the N64 in terms of appealling to adults came out in the N64's 11th month.

Resident Evil 4 is coming out in the GameCube's 4th year. That's a big, big difference.

GoldenEye kept the N64 from being branded entirely as a "kiddie console".

I do believe brands CAN change though and Nintendo can change. The Cadilliac analogy is one that's popular on these boards and I think it rings true. It just will require a big effort, and one which is focused and consistent. That's Nintendo's biggest problem. They can get the occassional big third-party deal or the occassional cool title, but they've never been able to do it for an extended period.

It takes a lot of hard work to do that. And I don't think Nintendo has a very good work ethic. They've become spoiled by having huge phenomenon's like Super Mario and Pokemon bail them out, whereas Sony really just works at it, month after month to market and get content and do all the little things.

I think their philosophy with the GameCube very much was "well lets just grab Resident Evil, then people will come back and love us again". And I still feel the philosophy at Nintendo today is "man, if we can just make another Pokemon, we'd be set". Nintendo is the hare, Sony is the tortoise.

 

[SantaC]

Does anyone know how RE4 has sold? Hope word of mouth did it well. I guess it's sort of tarnished in this argument because Nintendo didn't make it and it's not exclusive, but it seems like that "big" game for adults that you buy a system for. Too late I guess.

Those other games really aren't good examples, their middle of the road at best. GAF aside, no adult is going to buy a GC based on trash like 1080 or PN03. I bought one for ED, but I already had the other two consoles.

I think basically adults buy, and will continue to buy at least some, Nintendo consoles because of the main IP's. Mario platforming and Zelda. I don't think people really care about Metroid, it could dissapear next gen and the casual gamer wouldn't miss it that much. I'm not that casual and they do nothing for me beyond their polished exterior.

Nintendo is stuck. They make money off of being kid friendly and re-exploring their established IP's. At least they have those, they never really have to take a real gamble and they can stay away from 3rd parties IP and commercial licenses as much as they like. At the same time, it makes them seem a bit stale when they don't develop to the next level, like they so obviously haven't this gen. Basically, you see even their best IP's like Mario and Zelda being forced into a template of the series. That's fine because their some of the best games ever made...it's not that great because the magic that set the foundation for all this is not as fresh as it was.

If they can stay above water and find some designers to replace the old guard (Miyamoto, good luck!) they'll probably recapture some of that uniqueness some day.

RE4 sells pretty bad in Japan. NPD is not out yet.

 

[jiggle]

Until "mini-games" become a bulleted feature in a Zelda, Nintendo, the developer, still has "it", for me.

 

[_Angelus_]

I think they still have some magic left,but are too damn arrogant to budge from their old mindset. For that I'm outta here,nice knowing you Nintendo.

 

[lexi]

I do believe brands CAN change though and Nintendo can change. The Cadilliac analogy is one that's popular on these boards and I think it rings true.

Mind explaining that analogy?

 

[Memles]

I won't bother attempting to pick up this argument so late, but when I saw the thread title I stated the following.

"If he does not define "it" I am going to punch him in the Jugular"

These vaguities piss me off. Simple as that.

I'm still playing my third of the Fall's big three (Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 2, Pikmin 2), so maybe my opinion of Nintendo is clouded, but I can honestly say that I'm not seeing some big ideological shift in Nintendo's games. Fun is Fun. I don't think the new inputs are a bad thing; it was said that they were Nintendo's way of extending the life of the GameCube, and I have no problem with that.

Might pick up a set of Kongas and DK:JB and DK2, although Wario Ware Twisted may win out. Gasp, choosing between two gimmicky input titles! I guess they've still got it.

 

[AniHawk]

Do you guys think you're actually getting anywhere? You're just running around in circles.

 

[alejob]

I'm still debating which of the fallowing scenerios compares better to nintendo's.

A) Nintendo is a kid that gets his toy(the game industry) stolen by a bully(Sony and MS) and now has to to play with a crappy substitute toy cos it doesn't have anything else or

B) Nintendo is that smart kid that grabs a toy and finds a way to make it fun, then the bully gets jealous and takes the toy away but then the kid finds another toy and and has fun with it and the bully gets jealous again and wants to take the toy again. The kid finds a way to make anything fun.


Pfft. or whatever.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

I'm still debating which of the fallowing scenerios compares better to nintendo's.

A) Nintendo is a kid that gets his toy(the game industry) stolen by a bully(Sony and MS) and now has to to play with a crappy substitute toy cos it doesn't have anything else or

B) Nintendo is that smart kid that grabs a toy and finds a way to make it fun, then the bully gets jealous and takes the toy away but then the kid finds another toy and and has fun with it and the bully gets jealous again and wants to take the toy again. The kid finds a way to make anything fun.


Pfft. or whatever.

I think like most things in life, it's a bit of both.

 

[masud]

This tread is six fucking pages?!? Way to go GAF!

 

[soundwave05]

Mind explaining that analogy?

The Cadillac analogy is one that other posters use here.

Even as recently as say 5-7 years ago, the Cadillac brand was considered something for old people, not particularily hip or cool.

Today Cadilliac is a highly desired vehicle for younger, successful people thanks in part to MTV but mostly because Cadillac has aggressively remade their brand with new vehicles, specifically their flagship Cadillac Escalade.

So brand perceptions can change. But it requires I think a really focus from the higher ups and a real, serious commitment to do so, both of which I think Nintendo lacks.

There seems to be an extreme reluctance on Nintendo's part to invest too heavily on making content specifically for older consumers. They've never ever specifically allocated one division to focus on this audience. Retro was supposed to, but got pared down to the Metroid studio, and Rare always made a healthy amount of sugary games that sometimes even made EAD's stuff look rough n' tough in comparision.

Unfourtunately for Nintendo this is a very content and image driven business. Both Sony and Microsoft trump Nintendo in content and image when it comes to older consumers.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Did GCN end up with more games than N64? Did GCN end up with more support from third parties than N64? Did GCN not only match the expectations set by N64, but also surpass it? Did Nintendo work to rebuild alot of those burnt bridges from last generation, this generation? The answer to all of these is: YES...but sadly, their marketshare has gone down, their mindshare has gone down and game sales aren't as monumentous as N64 "epics" like Goldeneye, LOZ:TOOT & SM64 so it all depends on what you were expecting from Nintendo this generation.

Did anyone REALLY expect Nintendo's marketshare to get so much better after the bridges they burned with third parties in the N64 generation? And at the same time was Nintendo just expected to make a "come back" against Sony when PS2 already had over a years head start? Did any of us really expect Nintendo's marketshare to increase THAT much over N64 when there's now THREE (arguably four if you count DC) major competitors and not just two???

I mentioned in my earlier post that image means too too much and so do sales and being "#1"! I talked about the only thing really being wrong with Nintendo is their image and what were major blows (some self-inflicted even) that helped feed the image of Nintendo being old, washed up, tired and too "kiddy".

I forgot to mention a big one...the DreamCast. That system, was so beloved considering it's chances...alot of people even took IT more seriously than GCN and yet it had to "die" in the eyes of the industry. Since many consider the industries "golden age" the Genisis vs SNES days alot of people lump Nintendo & Sega together...so when they see one fail and "die" they almost expect the other to "die" as well no matter how much the facts SHOW that Nintendo is alive and well...it's the perception of it's image that gives it such doubt. No one wants to buy a system that will "die" like DC...that's why I think people were werry about X-BOX (being the newcomer) at first. But when MS showed that it had the most powerful system out, with their name and lot's of money behind it people realized that MS was *really* serious about this. All the while the veteran Nintendo, with an already bad image coming off of N64 and the "death" of it's once rival (also a VG veteran) further hurting it's image, came out with a silly pastel purple cube and silly "kiddy" games.

I think we need to take a step back, wether we're a casual gamer, a hardcore multi-console gamer or a console specific fanboy or what have you and realize that GAMES matter. Not sales. Not image. Not being #1! We also need to realize that, while having more markethare/sales means more money, that Nintendo isn't really deeply concerned with being #1 so much either. And rightly so, 'cos if they truly tried to compete on the same level as the "big boys" they'd lose and drain their rainey day funds quick, fast and in a hurry. Nintendo is concerned with games...we should be too.

Something else to point out...Nintendo REALLY expected their second parties to help them diversify their line-up and third parties to follow up and fill in the gaps. Instead Left Feild, RARE, Retro and S-K all end up being unproductive and/or unfocussed leaving Nintendo to either have to tie up loose ends or cut their losses with them. Third parties were there for a bit, but with Sony & MS willing to bend over to accomedate them too Nintendo really got screwed there as well. Nintendo (of old Mr. Yamauchi reign) probably went into this generation unconcerned by the MS threat (they were no thread...to Japan anyways) and thought they would only have to compete with Sony for third party realtions, but that ended up not being the case. So really...Nintendo had to carry GCN moreso than they had initially planned so I think they did very well considering.

 

[monkeyrun]

Do you guys think you're actually getting anywhere? You're just running around in circles.

Nintendo haters and Nintendo fans are running in circles ever since this messageboard was created. :lol

N-haters: Nintendo games are for kids
N-fans : I am not a kid though ..
N-haters: apparently you can't get laid
N-fans : I have a really hot girlfriend ..
N-haters: your girlfriend is ugly
N-fans : my Girlfriend is hot
N-haters: Nintendo gams are not for adults
N-fans : I am an adult
N-haters: well you can't get laid
N-fans : apparently I do
N-haters: no you don't
N-fans : yes I do
.
.
.
.

 

[Raw64life]

In your opinion has Nintendo lost it?

Not yet. As devout of a Nintendo fan as I am, Revolution has me worried. I have no idea where they plan on going with this but it doesn't look good. If Revolution is different to the point where companies can't even make multiplatform titles on Revolution they are going to die a horrible death.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Nintendo haters and Nintendo fans are running in circles ever since this messageboard was created. :lol

N-haters: Nintendo games are for kids
N-fans : I am not a kid though ..
N-haters: apparently you can't get laid
N-fans : I have a really hot girlfriend ..
N-haters: your girlfriend is ugly
N-fans : my Girlfriend is hot
N-haters: Nintendo gams are not for adults
N-fans : I am an adult
N-haters: well you can't get laid
N-fans : apparently I do
N-haters: no you don't
N-fans : yes I do
.
.
.
.

That about sums it up.

 

[SomeDude]

The XBox is better than the SNES.

 

[SantaC]

That about sums it up.

Another example:

N-haters: Nintendo games is the same old crap all over again
N-fans : Yeah because fps games like doom3 is something to get excited about
N-haters: But the graphics!
N-fans : Great graphics, but It's the same old.
N-haters: The xbox version has new gameplay
N-fans : It's still doom3
N-haters: Xbox version has co-op
N-fans : So did a mod to the PC
N-haters: Metroid Prime sucks, it has awful controls!
N-fans : It's not a fps
N-haters: Nintendo games doesn't sell anymore
N-fans : Pokemon does
N-haters: Pokemon doesn't count!
N-fans: it does!
.
.
.
.

 

[Scottlarock]

after reading the last 4 pages..... I've learned nothing but a couple of guys arguing abou the same exact stuff....


my point. nintendo has more then enough money to compete with MS&Sony but just don't want too...

for example: if nintendo overspent *big time* and got GTA:SA exclusive for $500 million how much better would GC look and the upcoming console? it would be a major player with ps2/xbox but they don't have the balls to do it.... they are looking at their paychecks now and not 2-3 years down the road.

 

[Date of Lies]

The one thing that Nintendo has really lost and will have a hard time regaining is their market image and any respect they used to have as a game developer and console manufacturer. Every other week a news article will bash Nintendo, even if they sometimes have no basis, a 3rd party publisher will redraw content, even if sometimes their last games on the cube were profitable, and a junior member will post another "Nintendo has lost it, Nintendo is DOOMED" topic, even if he just wants a quick topic that will get attention. What Nintendo has lost is not their talent of making good games in my opinion. What they've lost is their relevence in modern pop culture. Whether this is because the industry is becoming more shallow as the days pass (and the EA games are released), or because Nintendo can't adapt, it depends on who you ask.

 

[StRaNgE]

Nintendo haters and Nintendo fans are running in circles ever since this messageboard was created. :lol

N-haters: Nintendo games are for kids
N-fans : I am not a kid though ..
N-haters: apparently you can't get laid
N-fans : I have a really hot girlfriend ..
N-haters: your girlfriend is ugly
N-fans : my Girlfriend is hot
N-haters: Nintendo gams are not for adults
N-fans : I am an adult
N-haters: well you can't get laid
N-fans : apparently I do
N-haters: no you don't
N-fans : yes I do
.
.
.
.

that's pretty lame if people really think like that.
seems the haters care a little to much about a system they hate? hmmm....

 

[Bishman]

It is their image. People view the Nintendo and GC as kiddy and Nintendo needs to change this. They can start by making more mature, epic games and advertising like crazy. When the Revolution launches, please no Mario, Link, or the franchise we know, they need to launch with all new, original games. This will re-shape Nintendo's image and should help.

 

[fse]

In my opinion, yes Nintendo has already lost it. Revolution will be dead on arrival.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Nintendo haters and Nintendo fans are running in circles ever since this messageboard was created. :lol

N-haters: Nintendo games are for kids
N-fans : I am not a kid though ..
N-haters: apparently you can't get laid
N-fans : I have a really hot girlfriend ..
N-haters: your girlfriend is ugly
N-fans : my Girlfriend is hot
N-haters: Nintendo gams are not for adults
N-fans : I am an adult
N-haters: well you can't get laid
N-fans : apparently I do
N-haters: no you don't
N-fans : yes I do
.
.
.
.

:lol

odd since nintendo is the only console i have ever managed to get 2 girlfriends to play. Suck it haters.

 

[evilromero]

I don't mind these quick arcade-style games, but Nintendo needs to understand that the majority of gamers want something more. So inbetween these quirky and fun titles Nintendo needs to make certain that their mass market titles are also helping out. Just having one or the other isn't going to help them in anyway. Mario Kart DS, New Super Mario Bros. and Animal Crossing are the games that will truly help the DS, but if Nintendo can manage to continually fill the gaps with games like Wario Ware and Yoshi's Touch & Go then I'll be happy. But so far it seems all we have to look forward to are the Yoshi's and Wario's.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

But their biggest problem isn't them having arcade-style games. Their problem lies in Nintendo being the "Cuddly" game maker, and scarce 3rd party support to dissuade thoughts of Nintendo's console being 'cuddly' and only for 'cuddly' people, like girls or kids. Both the PS2 and Xbox appeal to more people, (Both the older gamers who are more into 'realistic' and believable, and teens who are into the unbelievable, but gritty) and look to spread their demographic out a bit more. If the PS2 or Xbox had more higher calibur 'cuddly' games, they would eat away at Nintendo's largest market and potentially leave Nintendo with no market to call their own. That is something Nintendo should fear as well.

 

[monkeyrun]

But their biggest problem isn't them having arcade-style games. Their problem lies in Nintendo being the "Cuddly" game maker, and scarce 3rd party support to dissuade thoughts of Nintendo's console being 'cuddly' and only for 'cuddly' people, like girls or kids. Both the PS2 and Xbox appeal to more people, (Both the older gamers who are more into 'realistic' and believable, and teens who are into the unbelievable, but gritty) and look to spread their demographic out a bit more. If the PS2 or Xbox had more higher calibur 'cuddly' games, they would eat away at Nintendo's largest market and potentially leave Nintendo with no market to call their own. That is something Nintendo should fear as well.

xbox has quite a few "Cuddly" games too, and they all bombed
(well it's not like any games other than halo doesn't bomb on the box)

 

[DrGAKMAN]

after reading the last 4 pages..... I've learned nothing but a couple of guys arguing abou the same exact stuff....


my point. nintendo has more then enough money to compete with MS&Sony but just don't want too...

for example: if nintendo overspent *big time* and got GTA:SA exclusive for $500 million how much better would GC look and the upcoming console? it would be a major player with ps2/xbox but they don't have the balls to do it.... they are looking at their paychecks now and not 2-3 years down the road.

WRONG. This is a misconception! Yes they have money to buy exclussives...but for how long and how much could they keep that up is the question. Every "exclussive" they've gotten has ended up being ported anyways due to the fact that Nintendo's image is so bad that publishers get away with the: "it doesn't sell good enough" excuse. And since Nintendo doesn't wanna piss third parties off they let them walk all over them so as to not to. They got the RE series exclussive and that did squat...why...'cos their problem isn't that they're not paying for exclussives or spending their cash...it's that their image plain sucks.

Let's say...in your imaginary world where Nintendo would pay for a GTA exclussive...not even Sony being "#1" and having so much marketshare couldn't keep GTA from eventually going to X-BOX as well...so what makes you think Nintendo could convince RockStar to do what even Sony couldn't with them being the market leader. To me, that would be WASTED money...it might help the image to show they're aggressive, but in the end people would just wait until the game came to their system of choice instead. So Nintendo basically wasted ALOT of money for something that isn't even exclussive and now Sony & MS are hungry to play this bidding war with Nintendo for exclussives to exasperate Nintendo's funds. Nintendo has alot of cash...yes...but can they compete in a bidding war with the Sony & MS giants...HELL NO!

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

xbox has quite a few "Cuddly" games too, and they all bombed
(well it's not like any games other than halo doesn't bomb on the box)

That's my point. The Xbox does not have much of a cuddly audience, and MS hasn't really bent their backs to get one.

Also, flamebait won't work on me. Especially ones with very poor grammar.

 

[wazoo]

but can they compete in a bidding war with the Sony & MS giants...HELL NO!

Against Sony, they could. Sony is not a big giant against Nintendo. Sony console is of the same financial size as Nintendo (counting GBA money).

THe problem is that

1/ MS has like 10 times of the financial power, so there is no competition

2/ Sony does not have to throw money out. They just say "look our userbase"

If sony start to lose their userbase, they will be in the same boat as Nintendo against MS

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Against Sony, they could. Sony is not a big giant against Nintendo. Sony console is of the same financial size as Nintendo (counting GBA money).

THe problem is that

1/ MS has like 10 times of the financial power, so there is no competition

2/ Sony does not have to throw money out. They just say "look our userbase"

If sony start to lose their userbase, they will be in the same boat as Nintendo against MS

Sony has made most of that profit primarily from their consoles while Nintendo makes a similar amount in consoles and handhelds. If consoles are 1/5th of their business, I don't know why all of you expect Nintendo to allocate more than 1/5th of their resources towards a console.

 

[wazoo]

while Nintendo makes a similar amount in consoles and handhelds. If consoles are 1/5th of their business, I don't know why all of you expect Nintendo to allocate more than 1/5th of their resources towards a console.

That is not true. 1/2 is somewhat closer to the truth.

Anyway, using that argument, you could say that MS is not on the same ground as nintendo considering that they made zero profit from their console division. Reality does not work like this.

 

[Juno]

Fuck I hate this anecdotal shit. I'm 21, have a large circle of gamer and non-gamer friends. Whenever somebody throws a party, it's a sure bet the Gamecube will be up and a game of Smash Bros/Mario Party/SC2 will be playing. Playing Mario Party while somewhat inebriated is definitely one of my finer gaming moments.

Nothing's concrete, but I see where he's coming from.

Trying to bring a Gamecube (heck, the name itself isn't doing it any favours) into a room full of 20-somethings for some multiplayer action is tough. I don't bother anymore, but I've gone to the trouble of packing my Gamecube and games and taking them around to a friend's house on a friday night only for it to go untouched. The likes of Mario Party and Super Monkey Ball are overlooked based purely on aesthetics with the Halos, GTAs and Need For Speeds of the gaming world getting the nod. It's ignorance, but what can you do...

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

That is not true. 1/2 is somewhat closer to the truth.

Anyway, using that argument, you could say that MS is not on the same ground as nintendo considering that they made zero profit from their console division. Reality does not work like this.

Microsoft and Nintendo have different beliefs in business. Nintendo is not willing to take many losses, or enter into a business in which they cannot immediately profit (And they've said so themselves). Microsoft seems to be just the opposite, taking huge risks and anticipating even bigger returns if their venture ends up being successful.

And I doubt that the GBA line, which has sold in excess of 60 million hardware units, and 200 million software units, all of which overpriced in order to gain a greater revenue on outdated technology, competes with a console that has gotten several price drops, one of which resulting in a deficit, several risk investments (Nintendo paying for EA's marketing budget), sold about 20 million with less than 200 million peices of software, and much higher R&D.

Sony is the balance between the two. They seek ventures with many partners, and will put a moderate monetary effort into it, and whatever they've gained from it, many times they will reinvest back into the product, to increase profitability.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Agreed wazoo...basically my point is Nintendo can't play the bidding war so those who say Nintendo should somehow use their money to "compete" are just...wrong.

This whole "#1 winnar!!1!" mentality is retarded. Yeah having more marketshare is good 'cos it leads to more support and more games, but just 'cos you have less doesn't mean you're going to die. And even if you end up with more marketshare, support and games it all comes down to opinion on who has the better games or which system you like best. Look at Genisis vs SNES...SNES ended up the clear "victor" in the end but it doesn't mean Genisis owners weren't happy with their system. Another thing is, even if somehow Nintendo spent all their money and bought CAPCOM, Activision, Namco, Konami & Sega to become #1 next generation...there's ALWAYS the generation after that where either a newcomer or who knows will come in and claim the #1 spot themselves so as far as this "we have got to have the best selling system/games" crap goes it doesn't matter. It's all opinion...and I don't let things like sales or Nintendo not being #1 or having a bad image dictate my opinions of GCN being a good system. Reggie said this: "he with the best games...wins" not best image, or sales or marketshare.

Nintendo could remain profitable and satisfy their audience even if Revolution has only it's own games/collaborations on it. I've said this before...Nintendo is the new SNK/NEC of the gaming world and there's nothing wrong with that as long as they have games that satify their audience and as long as they're still makin' money. Yeah, maybe they could be "more" or become "#1" again, but at what costs? And again, even if they somehow did this it would still be the OPINION of many out there that they suck or are old/washed up or too "kiddy".