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Inafune: Gaming technology has "become too advanced"

Codeblue

Member
Did he say Japan only? Usually Inafune speaks with the global gaming market in mind.

We both seem to be in agreement that there are other factors for him saying this. You think he's creatively bankrupt and I think he just doesn't have the cash to keep up.

You said he should make indie games if that's the case, and now I'm telling you that this isn't feasible because the indie scene in his home market isn't comparable to the indie scene in the West.
 

gatti-man

Member
I agree that you can be creative still, but you can't make creative AAA games anymore, period. Theres plenty of super creative and interesting titles in the downloadable ream for $5-20, but there is diddly squat for creativity in you $60 AAA titles. What's the most "creative" AAA game in the past couple years? Batman?

IMO that's more a result of old tech stifling experiences than AAA-itis. The longer a generation goes on the more sequels and spin offs we get. New IPs get launched early in consoles life cycles.

I think the idea of AAA or fail is simply false. Good indy titles sell boat loads and on my WiiU the game with the most play time is a Wii game! It's just common sense that the biggest budgets go to the proven mechanics and IP. That being said it doesn't mean non AAA can't be a commercial success or be funded.
 

Teknoman

Member
Inafune needs to get equipped with inspiration and just make some download games/focus on fun stuff. Make Soul Sacrifice the best action game you possibly can, and everything else should follow.
 

Sulik2

Member
This comment makes me think of something Itagaki said in an interview once. "If graphics didn't matter we would all still be playing chess."

Visuals and technology changing are a part of the medium. Learn how to be efficient and use the power at your hands to make better games Inafune. Don't just complain that it is harder to make stuff now.
 

i-Lo

Member
No, the problem is that video games cost way too much to make and thus they're taking fewer risks and are becoming more generic. Which in a large part has to do with technological progress enabling extreme levels of production values and market competition basically *forcing* these production values and thus costs on developers. It does not have to be this way in an ideal world, but the way the economy is organised now, it's unavoidable.

This is not rocket science ffs. It's been obvious since way before the HD twins launched and a lot of things that happened (mid range games destroyed, developer consolidation, narrowing of genres etc) happened exactly as it had to because of this.

Kindly give me some examples of some of these mid tier titles. What constitutes a "mid tier" title? Do they cost the same as a new top tier title at retail?

Also during the last generation, kindly show me the rise of indy games on services like PSN or XBL.

I'd also like to remind people that games like Demon's Souls or Dark Souls albeit exceptions give the current state AAA game design paradigm show that when the games start to stagnate, that for most part the free market responds to new unique ideas that do not possess the best graphical presentation.

Yes costs will undoubtedly rise, but at the same time, the technology that improves will dictate what can be done in a game and to what extent. The next gen is mostly about middle-wares that are about ease of use and reduction development, thereby control budgets. I don't think any game during the era of PS2 or Xbox or GC had in its production pipeline, had things like face capture or motion capture that started to merge industries together in unique ways and allowed for greater immersion. Even today not every game does it and it's not a prerequisite for success but it goes to show that technology has matured enough in a medium that is still considered in its infant stages compared others.

Yes, it's shitty that the big developers are becoming so damn risk averse but pretty pictures won't stop the a bad game from being bad (MoH:Warfighter comes to mind in recent time) and nor will it help sell copies. The one advantage at the beginning of a generation is sowing the seeds of new IPs that can leveraged in years to come. And this generation on PC and on next generation console (Sony esp) we'll see an substantial increase in Free to Play games.

A lot can and will happen in the next 6-8 years that will shape the gaming industry just like it did this generation (which people sometimes conveniently forget). Holding on the past hoping things won't change for better or worse is a fool's dream.
 

Teknoman

Member
Also every game doesnt have to take full advantage of a system's power to be good. I've had more fun with games Strania, Castle Crashers, ZombiU, Monster Hunter, etc. than some larger "AAA" titles this year.

What constitutes as AAA anyway? The budget?
 
It might not be too advanced, but it sure as shit is too expensive to develop for. If next gen sees a big jump in technology with PS4 and 720, so many devs are going to be fucked.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
I don't know what he means by "the surprise is lost" but if he meant that people making big budget games generally shy away from surprising aesthetic and design choices, he's right.
 

v1oz

Member
Agreed! And Inafune is a genius for saying this. You don't need the best technology to make good gaming experiences. That's why PC gaming is dead, its a shadow of it's former self - PC games used to drive the industry and set the road maps for technological innovations. People just don't mind playing games in lower fidelity on their 7 year old consoles, portable 3DS's and iOS touch devices.
 
Agreed! And Inafune is a genius for saying this. You don't need the best technology to make good gaming experiences. That's why PC gaming is dead, its a shadow of it's former self - PC games used to drive the industry and set the road maps for technological innovations. People just don't mind playing games in lower fidelity on their 7 year old consoles, portable 3DS's and iOS touch devices.

... :)
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Agreed! And Inafune is a genius for saying this. You don't need the best technology to make good gaming experiences. That's why PC gaming is dead, its a shadow of it's former self - PC games used to drive the industry and set the road maps for technological innovations. People just don't mind playing games in lower fidelity on their 7 year old consoles, portable 3DS's and iOS touch devices.

Hmm, I don't know if this is sarcasm but Steam has largely helped to usher in a resurgence in PC gaming.
 

Xenon

Member
Dxzgw.jpg
 
This is what it sounds like to me. High dev costs = super safe design and even stylistic and story choices. Too dangerous to experiment and make odd games.

Translation sounds like a mess.

Gonna go with this one. I reread the passage a few times and it sounds different each time.

To me it sounds like the important part of the statement is that he feels games need to be more surprising and emotionally involving, not that he's saying new technology is flat-out a bad thing.
 

shuri

Banned
I'm tired of game developers who forgot the past. Even in the '80 there was a graphical race going on between consoles; between arcade systems. And back then, it was expensive too! I remember reading articles about devs crying about tech becoming too complicated at the dawn of the PS2/xbox era release on Ancient-GAF and how rising costs were going to kill gaming developpement.
 
Kindly give me some examples of some of these mid tier titles. What constitutes a "mid tier" title? Do they cost the same as a new top tier title at retail?

It's about costs and sales, I'd guess (just a guess because we have no data on game costs) around a million dollars or two and a few hundred thousand sales but profitable. And yes, they do. Price is not only about how much work (money) is put into a title. As for examples, I guess games that sold a few hundred thousand copies but still had sequels would qualify.

Also during the last generation, kindly show me the rise of indy games on services like PSN or XBL.

The low end market is not a replacement for the middle. It's a good thing that platform owners are trying to take advantage of this, but it's mostly not relevant to the power issue, as this market is much less dependent on it than the top end.

I'd also like to remind people that games like Demon's Souls or Dark Souls albeit exceptions give the current state AAA game design paradigm show that when the games start to stagnate, that for most part the free market responds to new unique ideas that do not possess the best graphical presentation.

It's not just about graphics (and afaik the Souls games weren't exactly bad at that). It's about production costs as a whole, including big name voice actors, reliance on cross-media "IPs", focus testing and even marketing (which in itself can be on the same order of magnitude as the game itself). And it's not that innovation will cease to exist completely (although notice where the Souls games have come from) but that it'll be much rarer and will proceed in smaller steps. Graphics is a large part of this though. There will always be a few games like this, but as things go on, there'll be ever fewer of them.

Yes costs will undoubtedly rise, but at the same time, the technology that improves will dictate what can be done in a game and to what extent. The next gen is mostly about middle-wares that are about ease of use and reduction development, thereby control budgets. I don't think any game during the era of PS2 or Xbox or GC had in its production pipeline, had things like face capture or motion capture that started to merge industries together in unique ways and allowed for greater immersion. Even today not every game does it and it's not a prerequisite for success but it goes to show that technology has matured enough in a medium that is still considered in its infant stages compared others.

Epic is touting their own engine as saving money by only increasing development costs twofold :-/ There's a limit to what you can achieve with better tools. And whether you think technical development is good or not, it certainly eliminated a lot of competition and made the console market much more homogenous - a typical consequence of any market consolidation process which transforms a market into a much less competitive one. This is good for the large publishers that survive the cull.

Yes, it's shitty that the big developers are becoming so damn risk averse but pretty pictures won't stop the a bad game from being bad (MoH:Warfighter comes to mind in recent time) and nor will it help sell copies. The one advantage at the beginning of a generation is sowing the seeds of new IPs that can leveraged in years to come. And this generation on PC and on next generation console (Sony esp) we'll see an substantial increase in Free to Play games.

No one said that production quality is enough ffs. It's a requirement, and that's enough to raise costs and thus decrease risk taking. But not having pretty pictures means fewer sales though. And your talk about "IPs" that are "leveraged" is actually a pretty good reflection of the problems with the industry.

A lot can and will happen in the next 6-8 years that will shape the gaming industry just like it did this generation (which people sometimes conveniently forget). Holding on the past hoping things won't change for better or worse is a fool's dream.

I have no idea what this means. You think it's practical to ignore what always happened to development costs because maybe next time it'll be different?

I'm tired of game developers who forgot the past. Even in the '80 there was a graphical race going on between consoles; between arcade systems. And back then, it was expensive too! I remember reading articles about devs crying about tech becoming too complicated at the dawn of the PS2/xbox era release on Ancient-GAF and how rising costs were going to kill gaming developpement.

Well, Nintendo was doing that already around the middle of last gen iirc. And it's pretty obvious that the graphical race cannot continue forever, even MS and Sony will recognise this. MS has a tactical advantage against Sony as they're in a MUCH better position to continue this race, in which Sony can even die, so maybe they'll force it for one more gen, but it'll be very, very difficult after that. If developing games costs money and better technology means they cost more money, this can only go on as long as the market expands. Once it stops, which may happen this gen, there'll simply be no space for this growth.
 
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