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[mrklaw]

FP16 feels like the classic smoke and mirrors, and various technical shortcuts that allow realtime graphics to look great. How close can you get to 'proper' rendering but by taking as many shortcuts as possible before people notice.

Like how so many games have lower resolution shadows, or alpha effects, because they're computationally expensive and you can get away with 1/4 res as long as the main elements are full resolution.

Just another tool in the set for developers to find the right balance for their particular requirements.

 

[twobear]

I really do hope that you're trying to be funny

You keep stating peak performance as FP16 vs FP32. What other takeaway are people supposed to get except that you think PS4 Pro has bigger numbers.

 

[Matt]

Yup I just said that in your quote good reading

No, you didn't. I quoted your shockingly fast turnaround on the importance of these additional features. In one case they are important, in another, they aren't.

You are being incredibly disingenuous here, and like I said, it was actually funny to see. No one is claiming FP16 makes the Pro twice as powerful.

 

[Rodelero]

There's a difference in a bespoke feature trying to give impression of 2x performance then features that allow the gpu to be more efficient in handling bottlenecks.

Please could you point out the person in this thread that is talking up a 2x performance gain due to FP16? Or is it that your entire position is boiling down to confirmation bias, extremely selective use of quotes, and strawmen? You need to relax. Nobody in this thread is suggesting that Scorpio isn't the most powerful. It's okay. Not only is your favourite console going to be the most powerful console on the market when it comes out, but everyone here knows it and accepts it.

You (and several others) are fighting a war in this thread against an opposition that doesn't exist.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

.

I love you.

 

[onQ123]

You keep stating peak performance as FP16 vs FP32. What other takeaway are people supposed to get except that you think PS4 Pro has bigger numbers.

So even though it's been explained a million times that fp16 is less precise than fp32 you will still look pass the fact that PS4 Pro 8.4TF is fp16 & just see that 8.4 is a bigger number than 6?

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

It's more like Scorpio GPU doesn't have FP16 thing is simply because the GPU don't need it, since there is no bottleneck about this part for the GPU.

Feel sorry about Scorpio make some of you guys unhappy and typing bunch of words to make themselves feel better though, that said, similar story happened in 4 years ago with PS4&XB1, just this time it switched side lol.

 

[Space_nut]

No, you didn't. I quoted your shockingly fast turnaround on the importance of these additional features. In one case they are important, in another, they aren't.

You are being incredibly disingenuous here, and like I said, it was actually funny to see. No one is claiming FP16 makes the Pro twice as powerful.

Um yea I've been replying to people saying all the custom work MS did means nothing and it's all "sauce" while people proclaiming fp16 as remarkable. Everything I've said is about all the work MS did to customize the gpu that makes it much more efficient and able to use for devs. Where did I say this custom work will allow 18TF of gpu power? You can go read this thread to see people saying fp16 will "close"/"surpass" the gap for scorpio. I don't know what's your deal but you really like to downplay anything MS but anything sony you just stay quiet huh?

 

[Hoo-doo]

I don't know...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1358475

First line...




And then... is something on every XBO.

The guy is the official Scorpio hype-man at this point. No sense trying to contradict. People don't care.

 

[Sulik2]

It really seems like Microsoft has made a killer piece of hardware with Scorpio. I can't help but wonder of they are making a mistake requiring all games to still work on an Xbone and not just burying the mistakes they made with the one in a new gen?

 

[GRaider81]

I don't know what's your deal but you really like to downplay anything MS but anything sony you just stay quiet huh?

Hello Mr Pot, Please meet Kettle

 

[gaming_noob]

I don't know...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1358475

First line...




And then... is something on every XBO.

We could search up your post history, too, on Xbox topics.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

It really seems like Microsoft has made a killer piece of hardware with Scorpio. I can't help but wonder of they are making a mistake requiring all games to still work on an Xbone and not just burying the mistakes they made with the one in a new gen?

I think they will bury it, but right after Scorpio released? too early.
Maybe when Scorpio 2 comes out, it can start dropping XB1 and let games only works with Scorpio 1&2.

 

[wachie]

Yup I just said that in your quote good reading

No, you didn't. You just did a 180 like the Xbox One launch period.

Carry on though, these customizations are really "game changer" lol

 

[Fredrik]

Just read the new article,

One thing i've read a few times now is that each MB is tailored to match the processor that its given.

Does this effectively mean that there will be a silicon lottery when buying a Scorpio much like we see with PC GPUs and CPUs? ie: good and bad consoles

Or has this always been the case to an extent with consoles as well? Ive just never heard about it applying to consoles before.

yeah this puzzles me too. I don't get what they are trying to say here. It is 100% true that every component is different, there is a tolerance on every component, a 4.7kohms resistor is never exactly 4.7kohms etc, but the normal way is to simply run tests and have a min/max test value and simply put the cards that aren't within those values to the side.
When they're talking about matching a mother board with a certain APU, are they simply hyping the process of having to swap out certain components that are outside of the specs to new ones which makes the card pass the tests? (Which is normal unless you want to throw away lots of cards)
Or are they just comparing it to building a PC by yourself where you just plug a random CPU in and kind of hopes for the best?

 

[Matt]

Um yea I've been replying to people saying all the custom work MS did means nothing and it's all "sauce" while people proclaiming fp16 as remarkable. Everything I've said is about all the work MS did to customize the gpu that makes it much more efficient and able to use for devs. Where did I say this custom work will allow 18TF of gpu power? You can go read this thread to see people saying fp16 will "close"/"surpass" the gap for scorpio. I don't know what's your deal but you really like to downplay anything MS but anything sony you just stay quiet huh?

Yep, you figured me out. I'm really just a Sony plant. Damn I'm exposed. Nevermind the fact that my very first post in this thread was one saying that FP16 wasn't a big deal.

You are being rediculous, and if anyone has actually stated that FP16 will allow the Pro to meet or surpass Scorpio, they are being ridiculous too.

But you honestly can't just dismiss FP16, and then go around acting like MS's additions to the Scorpio hardware are more meaningful. That's just living in a straight up fantasy world.

 

[Risk Breaker]

...WOW.

This is possibly the fastest turnaround I have ever seen on GAF.

"None of these extra features really matter, UNLESS Microsoft says they matter."

I actually laughed when I saw this play out.

There's a reason why Space_Nut went straight to my ignore list just a few days after the Scorpio reveal, lol. These tech discussions are straight up console wars BS for like 80% of the posts.

 

[Space_nut]

Yep, you figured me out. I'm really just a Sony plant. Damn I'm exposed. Nevermind the fact that my very first post in this thread was one saying that FP16 wasn't a big deal.

You are being rediculous, and if anyone has actually stated that FP16 will allow the Pro to meet or surpass Scorpio, they are being ridiculous too.

But you honestly can't just dismiss FP16, and then go around acting like MS's additions to the Scorpio hardware are more meaningful. That's just living in a straight up fantasy world.

From what I know improving your gpu to be capable of way more bandwidth, memory, and latency is more beneficial to graphics than fp16. Can you prove otherwise?

These are things I have posted about. The 326GB/S bandwidth, 12GB ddr5 ram, and the dx12 hardware chips on the gpu to improve latency/draw calls.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Yeah that's right I made up all this fp16 stuff before Scorpio & PS4 Pro specs was even leaked just because I knew that I could use it for my agenda.

No, that is your strawman. I'm not saying that you made up that part of the fp16 discussion. I am saying that you did totally make up the part about Microsoft using the fp16 number as the announced 6TF spec for Scorpio. More importantly, I am saying that your posts about the FP16 spec are very obviously meant to mislead less knowledgeable people into believing that it is much more important than it actually is.

They are small features that help to squeeze a little bit more juice out of these machines.

I wonder, how many times do developers have to spell this out for people before they get it through their heads? Haven't people had enough of marketing speak and secret sauces? Do they really prefer hyperboles and constant hype to a reasonable and level-headed assessment? Sometimes it seems like everyone that doesn't contribute to building up hype ends up being attacked. Matt managed to piss off both Xbox and PS fans by refusing to hype up custom Jaguars and FP16.

Yep, you figured me out. I'm really just a Sony plant. Damn I'm exposed. Nevermind the fact that my very first post in this thread was one saying that FP16 wasn't a big deal.

You are being rediculous, and if anyone has actually stated that FP16 will allow the Pro to meet or surpass Scorpio, they are being ridiculous too.

But you honestly can't just dismiss FP16, and then go around acting like MS's additions to the Scorpio hardware are more meaningful. That's just living in a straight up fantasy world.

Just know that your efforts are appreciated, don't let the accusations get to you.

 

[Matt]

From what I know improving your gpu to be capable of way more bandwidth, memory, and latency is more beneficial to graphics than fp16. Can you prove otherwise?

What does it matter? MS's tweeks aren't giving them "way more" of any of those things.

 

[Kayant]

I don't know...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1358475

First line...




And then... is something on every XBO.

Ha I remember these gems also -

It's not a jag they're fully customized built from ground up CPU cores with everything upgraded. Jags aren't even capable of 2.3ghz

Show me how it's a direct copied jag CPU just put in there?

Everything in DF article states a revised customized CPU. They may have started with a jag but they went through many revisions and redesigns.

It's not vanilla jag cores. From the article with the improvements to latency and cache they put features that are more advanced than jags. Just like the 360 gpu

Heck even DF says the whole system reminds them of 360 future proof features

 

[Hoo-doo]

No, that is your strawman. I'm not saying that you made up that part of the fp16 discussion. I am saying that you did totally make up the part about Microsoft using the fp16 number as the announced 6TF spec for Scorpio. More importantly, I am saying that your posts about the FP16 spec are very obviously meant to mislead less knowledgeable people into believing that it is much more important than it actually is.

Or, you know, he's technically correct and it's just kind of hilarious to see how you guys react to it every damn time.

At least, that's how I interpret it. No-one here is thinking the PS4 Pro is more powerful than the Xbox Scorpio. If not, can you point out the posts that genuinely think this?

 

[Space_nut]

What does it matter? MS's tweeks aren't giving them "way more" of any of those things.

Having 326GB/S bandwidth and 12GB of ram is way more than if they released in 2016 having 8GB of ram 218GB/S bandwidth. But to each their own

 

[Inuhanyou]

If we're talking about FP16 vs FP32, the fact of the matter is that if there is a hardware disparity, FP16 will help with certain tasks to speed up the slower hardware partially, but its not going to overcome a 50% disparity in hardware.

So the question remains why are we still talking about it?

MS felt it not worth adding, so obviously they feel their brute force approach works best, which it should as it does in most cases regarding hardware power. Taking shortcuts only works so far.

 

[quest]

It's more like Scorpio GPU doesn't have FP16 thing is simply because the GPU don't need it, since there is no bottleneck about this part for the GPU.

Feel sorry about Scorpio make some of you guys unhappy and typing bunch of words to make themselves feel better though, that said, similar story happened in 4 years ago with PS4&XB1, just this time it switched side lol.

It's not there because it did not fit with their design goals. The Scorpio design goals look like 6tf and 12 gigs of ram which they feel is enough to get most OG Xbox one games to 4k. They needed to do this and keep costs down to try and launch at a acceptable price. The double 16fp would of made the chip bigger increasing costs. There are much better Vega features that could be added imo.

 

[Matt]

Having 326GB/S bandwidth and 12GB of ram is way more than if they released in 2016 having 8GB of ram 218GB/S bandwidth. But to each their own

What!? We are talking about the hardware customizations like the command processor and the FP16 capabilities, not essential system elements like bandwidth or the amount of RAM.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Having 326GB/S bandwidth and 12GB of ram is way more than if they released in 2016 having 8GB of ram 218GB/S bandwidth. But to each their own

I thought we were talking about Microsoft's 'customizations' here?

Edit: beaten

 

[Space_nut]

Ha I remember these gems also -

Yea if you are angry about how they are not off the shelf jags well idk

"Typically for CPU, the top two items are frequency and memory latency. If the CPU has data, the faster it can process it, the quicker the result, but it also means that if it doesn't have the data, it sits there idle, so latency is a big component. On frequency, we pushed it up to 2.3GHz" explains Nick Baker "On the latency, a couple of the areas we tackled, one was all the queues coming back from the memory interface, we sped those up as well. Specifically, within the core, because we're running a virtualised OS environment, we wanted to optimise how memory translation operations happen so there are some key changes inside the core to speed those things up. The end result is that not only does the CPU run faster, it also runs more efficiently meaning more power for you at the end."

What!? We are talking about the hardware customizations like the command processor and the FP16 capabilities, not essential system elements like bandwidth or the amount of RAM.

Yea they didn't just plug those things in and just worked. They had to modify everything from the memory controllers, queue caches size and speed, add dedicated hardware for dx12 and audio etc, and tune each chip for the best speed

Years before any silicon arrived back from chip manufacturing giant TSMC, the Xbox team began by carrying a vast range of simulation and analysis. As Project Scorpio is effectively a mid-generation refresh - an extension of the existing console designed primarily for 4K screens - existing game code captured at a granular level via the PIX (Performance Investigator for Xbox) tool could be run on potential hardware designs, well before Microsoft went to AMD.

Again if you read MS extensively tested all the big game engines to see how they were bottlenecked. Then they made changes to the transistors for the cpu and gpu to improve. If that is something that you don't understand or irks you then idk what to say

 

[Sad Affleck]

Or, you know, he's technically correct and it's just kind of hilarious to see how you guys react to it every damn time.

For the 10th or so time, he is not technically correct. He is quoting a part of the GPU's spec out of context and without ever explaining what it is and why it is important. He is quoting the teraflop number because he knows most people don't know any better than 8.4 > 6. It's exactly the same situation as Microsoft's DX12-on-a-chip that reduces hundreds of draw calls to ten or eleven. Some people ran with that number and hyped it up as a huge deal that would make the Jaguars perform like i7s or something. This is what OnQ123 does.

 

[Lys Skygge]

I think they will bury it, but right after Scorpio released? too early.
Maybe when Scorpio 2 comes out, it can start dropping XB1 and let games only works with Scorpio 1&2.

I don't think they'll drop the XB1 for Scorpio at all. It just isn't worth it. While the Scorpio is certainly powerful, it still isn't enough of a generational leap to warrant leaving the XB1 behind.

Edit: I could imagine there next-gen console leaving XB1 behind however.

 

[quest]

If we're talking about FP16 vs FP32, the fact of the matter is that if there is a hardware disparity, FP16 will help with certain tasks to speed up the slower hardware partially, but its not going to overcome a 50% disparity in hardware.

So the question remains why are we still talking about it?

MS felt it not worth adding, so obviously they feel their brute force approach works best, which it should as it does in most cases regarding hardware power. Taking shortcuts only works so far.

Because that is the only new information in the article. We need someone else to do an interview who is willing to take a risk and push MS on the details. We don't know how many of the 60 customizations are standard Polaris features that the OG Xbox one does not have. To push for exactly what Vega features are in Scorpio. I don't see it happening until after launch. I really hope after launch we get all the details like Sony did.

 

[Crayon]

It's not a jaguar. It's the scorpio engine. Deep.

 

[Hoo-doo]

For the 10th or so time, he is not technically correct. He is quoting a part of the GPU's spec out of context and without ever explaining what it is and why it is important. He is quoting the teraflop number because he knows most people don't know any better than 8.4 > 6. It's exactly the same situation as Microsoft's DX12-on-a-chip that reduces hundreds of draw calls to ten or eleven. Some people ran with that number and hyped it up as a huge deal that would make the Jaguars perform like i7s or something. This is what OnQ123 does.

Who here takes that number out of context though? I don't see a stream of posts claiming the PS4 Pro is more powerful than the Xbox Scorpio because 8.4 > 6. It's simply become a running gag at this point.

 

[Lemondish]

For the 10th or so time, he is not technically correct. He is quoting a part of the GPU's spec out of context and without ever explaining what it is and why it is important. He is quoting the teraflop number because he knows most people don't know any better than 8.4 > 6. It's exactly the same situation as Microsoft's DX12-on-a-chip that reduces hundreds of draw calls to ten or eleven. Some people ran with that number and hyped it up as a huge deal that would make the Jaguars perform like i7s or something. This is what OnQ123 does.

Seeing an awful lot of references to "some people", but haven't yet actually seen these mythical posts. You sure you're not just misreading some posts?

 

[Kayant]

Yea if you are angry about how they are not off the shelf jags well idk

Seems you're still missing the point.
It was never about whether or not they were off the shelf jags again as a reminder jag have not be off the shelf since PS4/XB1!

Your claim of them being not being "vanilla cores", "customized built from ground up CPU cores" - is simply false.

 

[Lady Gaia]

If we're talking about FP16 vs FP32, the fact of the matter is that if there is a hardware disparity, FP16 will help with certain tasks to speed up the slower hardware partially, but its not going to overcome a 50% disparity in hardware.

So the question remains why are we still talking about it?

You're stating that nothing is worth discussing that doesn't change what brand has the most capable console out there? That'd put quite a damper on conversation. We literally wouldn't have anything to talk about for the next 2-3 years. You may not have noticed, but this is a forum where people with the necessary background discuss technical minutiae, and people who don't argue over minor differences in frame rate, resolution, and grass density.

 

[BritBloke916]

It's not a jaguar. It's the scorpio engine. Deep.

It's NOT a lawnmower engine because we've called it Frank. And we painted it.

 

[Space_nut]

Seems you're still missing the point.
It was never about whether or not they were off the shelf jags again as a reminder jag have not be off the shelf since PS4/XB1!

Your claim of them being not being "vanilla cores", "customized built from ground up CPU cores" - is simply false.

Vanilla core indicate nothing changed/nothing modified/exact performance as standart jags. Again article states different

 

[Sad Affleck]

Seeing an awful lot of references to "some people", but haven't yet actually seen these mythical posts. You sure you're not just misreading some posts?

I think so, I can't be 100% certain though.

 

[tuxfool]

Or, you know, he's technically correct and it's just kind of hilarious to see how you guys react to it every damn time.

At least, that's how I interpret it. No-one here is thinking the PS4 Pro is more powerful than the Xbox Scorpio. If not, can you point out the posts that genuinely think this?

Technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Posting numbers without clarifying what they *effectively* mean is being misleading, even if not deliberately. Yes those numbers are real, but outside the context of what those operations are doing is meaningless, outside of an argument all that can be inferred is one is bigger than the other thus bigger=better.

Similarly, in the DF article with the magical 11 cpu instructions from the dx12 offload, sure that sounds great, how much it matters is important distinction. In this case context is being provided but it isn't being qualified, as in what would be the instruction count without it?

Other people have provided context and qualified what those numbers mean in practice, but if somebody wants to make a rigorous argument they should be providing it themselves.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Because that is the only new information in the article. We need someone else to do an interview who is willing to take a risk and push MS on the details. We don't know how many of the 60 customizations are standard Polaris features that the OG Xbox one does not have. To push for exactly what Vega features are in Scorpio. I don't see it happening until after launch. I really hope after launch we get all the details like Sony did.

And if we don't? Will this go on forever? At some point tryng to downplay Scorpio's advantages will have to get old like it did when DF reported on PS3 disparities with 360 or PS3 with XB1, at some point its just common sense that stronger or easier to develop for hardware performs better

You're stating that nothing is worth discussing that doesn't change what brand has the most capable console out there? That'd put quite a damper on conversation. We literally wouldn't have anything to talk about for the next 2-3 years. You may not have noticed, but this is a forum where people with the necessary background discuss technical minutiae, and people who don't argue over minor differences in frame rate, resolution, and grass density.

Lol. I get discussing hardware details, it just seems that people keep going back and forth between FP16 doing nothing and it doing everything.

Fact of the matter is that it does certain things in certain conditions, and that's about all there is to it.

 

[onQ123]

Technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Posting numbers without clarifying what they *effectively* mean is being misleading, even if not deliberately. Yes those numbers are real, but outside the context of what those operations are doing is meaningless, outside of an argument all that can be inferred is one is bigger than the other thus bigger=better.

Similarly, in the DF article with the magical 11 cpu instructions from the dx12 offload, sure that sounds great, how much it matters is important distinction. In this case context is being provided but it isn't being qualified, as in what would be the instruction count without it?

Other people have provided context and qualified what those numbers mean in practice, but if somebody wants to make a rigorous argument they should be providing it themselves.

Please show me one post where I posted 8.4TF without FP16

 

[nekkid]

Please show me one post where I posted 8.4TF without FP16

You're missing the point, entirely.

Posting the term "FP16" isn't providing the appropriate context. It's just baiting.

 

[Kayant]

Vanilla core indicate nothing changed/nothing modified/exact performance as standart jags. Again article states different

Actually it doesn't a Vanilla core just indicates that the base architecture/ISA is the same as a what you find on Jaguar which it is. Additionally, They have not done any more customisation then they did with XB1 to suddenly label the Scorpio implementation "custom x86 cores".

 

[tuxfool]

Please show me one post where I posted 8.4TF without FP16

This is the whole point!

FP16 *isn't* the context of 8.4TF.

Context would be to say where and how a 16 bit value would be a benefit to performance, what in what situations would it be used, how often, what percentage of total operations would use it, what are the edge cases, trade-offs.

Even speculation would be fine, those numbers only support an argument, they aren't *the* argument.

 

[LelouchZero]

That's a good question, actually, I'm not sure I remember the original rationale (e.g. why not patch on the PPU via write combine?), but it's not entirely uncommon to do such things, really, just usually you have a custom front-end processor on the GPU that does DMA, etc., while on the RSX the real cost was the mode switch. Needless to say one of the earliest tasks leveraging the SPU was to move shader program patching there. (Another fun fact: stock Unreal 3 had only one SPU module, and it either did shader program patching or EDGE culling depending on the arguments passed. On Call of Duty we had in excess of 64 SPU modules by the time we finished MW3.)



I think Michal Drobot might discuss our up-sample approach at SIGGRAPH (other primary author here is Jorge Jimenez), but we don't use entity ID data as part of our custom up-sample in Infinite Warfare. DICE's is much closer to the "stock" up-sample arrangement.



Like anything sufficiently interesting, it's complicated, and workloads vary depending on requirements, context, etc. That's really my point most of the time posting in threads like this--it is essentially impossible for the consumer to ever understand the environment in which decisions like this are made or the real underlying reasons and rationale. And really, there's no reason to--that's why I like when DF just focuses on the end result *as observable by the consumer* e.g. doing analysis of frame pacing, resolution, etc. It avoids them getting into the dangerous territory of speculating about how hardware is designed, leveraged, and how software is written, which is far more complicated than possible to express accurately in web articles.

Thank you, your posts are really great and informative!

 

[KageMaru]

Having 326GB/S bandwidth and 12GB of ram is way more than if they released in 2016 having 8GB of ram 218GB/S bandwidth. But to each their own

Please stop, you have no idea what you're talking about. They were able to have 12GB of ram and 326GB/s because they were able to fit 12GB of memory while using a 384-bit interface. None of this is custom by MS, it's just the hardware they chose to include.

Please show me one post where I posted 8.4TF without FP16

Most people have no context of what FP16 means for game development, so when you go around spouting "8.4TF FP16" it's misleading. You know an entire AAA game is not going to be entirely built with FP16 so this measurement is useless. Now we have people stretching the Pro performance to 5+TF with guesswork on using FP32 and FP16.

This whole thing is silly to say it nicely. We have people desperately clawing to justify why the Pro or Scorpio is the right system to purchase.

 

[Can Crusher]

Based on dev comments here, it seems well established that the majority of focus will remain on PS4/XBO since that is where the install base is. So while disappointing, I wonder if they didn't bother with FP16 due to the assumption that these mid gen refreshes won't receive the attention necessary to make it worth while.



Can't really agree with using exclusives to compare two pieces of hardware. Different engines, priorities, teams, budgets, etc. all make comparing two different exclusives extremely difficult. This is especially true when these exclusives won't ever appear on the other console, which would be the only real way to use them in comparisons.

A good example is Forza and GT. GT4 looked better than Forza even though the Xbox was ~3x more powerful than the PS2. I'm sure Turn 10 has improved a lot from their first game, but there will still be a difference in shaders, assets, lighting, etc between Forza 7 and GT Sport making the comparison impossible.

I disagree. I buy a console for its exclusives, otherwise I would buy a PC. Last gen 360 had better ports, Ps3 exclusives though looked better than anything on 360.

Normally the differences between versions are minimal, as seen this gen with xb1 and ps4. But the exclusives tell a different story.

 

[Rodelero]

Most people have no context of what FP16 means for game development, so when you go around spouting "8.4TF FP16" it's misleading.

Most people have no context of what FP32 means for game development either. Who is being misled, exactly? Is there someone in this thread that is reading what OnQ is saying and then wondering whether that means Pro is faster than Scorpio?

 

[DeeBatch]

Yeah that's right I made up all this fp16 stuff before Scorpio & PS4 Pro specs was even leaked just because I knew that I could use it for my agenda.

Honestly Fp16 loses precision the image simply will not look as good. Yes you can use some Fp16 for Ai etc but it's not going to close the gap that Scorpio has not even close.. You act like Fp16 can be used on everything when it can't .. Games use Fp32 only console that will be using Fp16 is Ps4 pro.. They lack power so they must use this as they do Checkerboarding to achieve 4k.. Fp16 help them more so in doing the checkeboard rendering than anything else..

Scorpio does not need that as it can achieve native 4k res, bandwidth allows 4k assets, CPU allows higher FPS,HDMI 2.1 allows better more consent FPS(freeSync 2) dev can lock a game @ 45 fps and it will be butter smooth. Scorpio will have 4k texture packs Ps4 pro will not no FP16 half float will change that. The beefier GPU will get Ultra settings and no FP16 calculation will help that either. Bottom line Scorpio has superior specs.. I own a Ps4 pro but the main benefits are higher res and say 1080 60 fps live streaming.. The games do not get any graphically face lifts maybe ambient occlusion or shadows go up 1 notch but that's it.. Scorpio will not only get 4k textures along with native 4k res but higher graphically settings. Then Scorpio also get 4k 60 fps with HDR DVR cmon system has way more power.

Please just stop downplaying Scorpio and hyping up FP16 saying Ps4 has 8.4 tflops it's embarrassing . If Ps4 could use Fp16 for errrything(which it can't) and really get to 8.4 tflops there would be no need for checkeboarding and every game would be native 4k.. You think 3rd party devs are really gunna focus on FP16? To take advantage your engine would have to be built around this TMK. Nope will be mostly 1st party games on Ps4 pro.Sure Fp16 helps Ps4 Pro reach a 4k target but it's necessary on Scorpio it is not


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