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[Lucifers Beard]

Are there people that really care about sexuality representation or pronouns within games? I want to play games, not listen to how a character identifies. Seems so out of place to make such a big deal out of these things.

Just to clarify, I don't care if it's in games, I just don't want it shoved in my face, for the sole reason that I don't give a shit how someone identifies. Are you cool and fun to talk to? Great, that's all I need.

 

[Woopah]

I think those are good characters that happen to be gay. Bill not so much, it’s been blown by the background on the show, but in the game he’s just a sightly developed victim of the world. But Chloe is a genuine good written character whose sexuality is only relevant when the time comes (and for a teenage drama game, it isn’t as often as it is for real high schoolers).

I think bigotry and racism are partly perpetuated by the persistent tendency to label people and things by "race" and "sexuality" when it doesn’t matter to the situation at hand. Do we need to have a good foundation for people to live in "harmony". Yes, and it has already been laid pretty well during the past decades. Will every single person on this planet ever be able to adopt a neutral "Bridgerton"-like mindset? Unlikely. Considering this, might the "LGBT" movement potentially compromise its goals by discarding valuable aspects along with the undesirable? Possibly. I think activism should take a step back now and let people in the west navigate these issues in everyday life on their own. And the activist should rather focus on how to bring some of the successful changes into authoritarian regimes and religious strongholds around the world. In my opinion this would be more valuable, and for a lot more people.

Anyway, let Morgan Freeman make the guide..

if I'm reading both of you correctly, this is basically an argument against tokenism. Which I completely agree with.

When developers include a character in a game who is bisexual or transgender, that aspect should be just part of their character, rather than their whole character.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

On a side but relevant note, Asian games like Honkai Star Rail or Nikke have LOTS of lesbians and nobody complains. They don't shove it down your throat and it doesn't hurt the story or lore of those characters. They are diverse in a meaningful way, so people can easily tell the difference between story and propaganda.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

On a side but relevant note, Asian games like Honkai Star Rail or Nikke have LOTS of lesbians and nobody complains. They don't shove it down your throat and it doesn't hurt the story or lore of those characters. They are diverse in a meaningful way, so people can easily tell the difference between story and propaganda.

That’s because cultural tolerance for lesbians is much higher than for gays and trans, it’s no surprise. Just look at how popular lesbian porn is among heterosexual men.

 

[Radical_3d]

if I'm reading both of you correctly, this is basically an argument against tokenism. Which I completely agree with.

When developers include a character in a game who is bisexual or transgender, that aspect should be just part of their character, rather than their whole character.

Yep. I’ve only played like 1/3 of the game but TLOU2 felt like that.

 

[BouncyFrag]

It’s all hands on deck to indoctrinate as many children as possible. It’s sick.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

First 30 seconds of this last video are a fucking masterpiece btw.

Comedy gold.

 

[Doczu]

No but I am Trans. Non Binary Trans Feminine Genderfluid to be exact.

That's a lot of words to say exactly nothing

 

[Black_Stride]

2% of the LGTBQs cause 90% of the DEI in games

Off Topic.

You know I am stupid right?
I only recently found out what DEI stands for because every other industry calls it EDI.
I was always like what the fuck are these guys talking about and why am i always a "consultant" for this shit.

Ive been asked what would a black person dress like in xyz situation......I dunno G, like a person. (Dont give them white or purple dreads though)

Hell, ive spent most of my adult life in the west so ive been colonized into dressing like everyone else when in the office and shit, and the only country that even let me leave my natural hair all out was Australia, everywhere else (including African countries) would expect me to be "neat" .......I got way too comfortable in Australia....my buddies actually used to tell me off whenever a photo of me would show up (obviously as the one black guy I was always called for every company photo shoot or CSR event)

 

[Lambogenie]

Needs more LGBT content*

(* Except in middle east versions).

The version to get

 

[Woopah]

Yep. I’ve only played like 1/3 of the game but TLOU2 felt like that.

I think we're still at a stage where, because of past discrimination, teams can earn "brownie points" for putting marginalised groups in their games.

We need to get to a point where developers treat characters from these groups in the same way they would treat any other character.

 

[nush]

(obviously as the one black guy I was always called for every company photo shoot or CSR event)

It's not just you, I'd get the same thing in China as a white guy.

 

[Bring Back Scalebound]

Have you seen the Paper Mario thread? There are people boycotting it because of lines of dialogue of some supposedly trans character that appears for seconds.

There’s no solution here for some GAFers except total erasure. The brain rot is deep. My solution to them is Afghanistan.

I didn't see it, but you are right, what I said was very much easier said then done...

 

[Lambogenie]

On a side but relevant note, Asian games like Honkai Star Rail or Nikke have LOTS of lesbians and nobody complains. They don't shove it down your throat and it doesn't hurt the story or lore of those characters. They are diverse in a meaningful way, so people can easily tell the difference between story and propaganda.

But they attractive lesbians. Different! Not realistic.

 

[Black_Stride]

It's not just you, I'd get the same thing in China as a white guy.

Next stop is Asia after I finish my current contract.
Im gleefully excited to see how crazy it is, cuz where I used to live in Aus had a lot of asian asians and I was always their show piece, I know alot of black people hate that shit, I laugh and say buy me beer.

 

[Portugeezer]

Homosexuals are over represented in western media.

But OK Insomniac, pat yourself on the back.

 

[Lambogenie]

True but he really enjoys penetrating guys with 8 inch thrusts.

As a side note, there’s nothing wrong with the occasional gay character in games, but based on Spider-Man, insomniac are super shit at implementing DEI stuff. They ram it down people’s throats, and make the diverse component the main focus of the character; something their own guidelines say not to do.

They have a gay character…but they don’t just treat him like a normal person and have a normal story you would expect in a superhero/villain universe that has nothing to do with his gender identity; nope, they instead make the whole supporting narrative about him putting on an overly camp proposal to his boyfriend to go to the prom with him .

They did the same repeatedly with any of their DEI storytelling. Hilariously in their leaked training video their Asian representation consultant explicitly said something akin to

“if you have an Asian guy, do not make them a stereotypical overweight, awkward comedic nerd, like Ganke”

…so they must be self aware that what they are doing is wrong and destructive, because their own consultants are telling them that. Or they just discount that input because Asians are “white adjacent” and they don’t care about them or their advice

Fat Asian nerd is a stereotype? What. Why is everything a stereotype. You can't be too fat. Or too fit. Or too smart or too dumb. Or too hot or too ugly. What do they even want? Then they see the same thing repeatedly to create another stereotype.

Hope these DEI groups crash and burn. The amount of cringe, out of touch stuff they present is nauseating.

I'm glad more people are fed up with this crap and rejecting it.

 

[nush]

Next stop is Asia after I finish my current contract.

I'm sorry to tell you that the general consensus there is is that you are all thieves. Of course that didn't match the reality, mostly Africans I met were the friendliest most open people.

 

[tommib]

Homosexuals are over represented in western media.

But OK Insomniac, pat yourself on the back.

Show me a gay male lead on a video game besides Curtis in Phantasmagoria 2 (1996) who was bisexual:

 

[ULTROS!]

From what I’ve seen, it’s majority of the western games that have these and most of them looked like a forced inclusion.

I dunno, but one of the very few games that had LGBT representation that didn’t looked forced for me was FFXVI.

 

[mdkirby]

Fat Asian nerd is a stereotype? What. Why is everything a stereotype. You can't be too fat. Or too fit. Or too smart or too dumb. Or too hot or too ugly. What do they even want? Then they see the same thing repeatedly to create another stereotype.

Hope these DEI groups crash and burn. The amount of cringe, out of touch stuff they present is nauseating.

I'm glad more people are fed up with this crap and rejecting it.

Its been the typical casting of asians for decades, in Hollywood in particular. They are almost always cast as the 'comedic nerdy sidekick', or general nerd/geek. Asians are the last major group that still continue to have to battle hard to be taken seriously and receive major serious leading roles in western entertainment/media products. Its why the whole Yasuke Assassins creed thing is so bad/racist, people have been side tracked by the use of a black samurai, when the real issue is not that he is black, its that yet again they have robbed an asian actor of a major role in what couldn't have been a more obvious casting...but western entertainment leaders yet again decided to side step them and race swap them.

Its mind boggling that people who call out this clearly borderline racist decision (which we have been told in left wing press for decades is a pretty racist thing to do, (just ready the guardian articles about ghost in the shell etc when that released), are themselves being called racist by those supposedly fighting for diverse representation...people that also seem to like to derogatorily call asians 'white adjacent'. Its all pretty fucked up.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Remember when games design was about making them fun and not pushing some agendas? I remember.

 

[RJMacready73]

That’s because cultural tolerance for lesbians is much higher than for gays and trans, it’s no surprise. Just look at how popular lesbian porn is among heterosexual men.

 

[ArtHands]

Maybe they will make Wolverine bisexual in the game

 

[mdkirby]

Show me a gay male lead on a video game besides Curtis in Phantasmagoria 2 (1996) who was bisexual:

Damn, I loved those games as a kid. Was a shame Roberta Williams return to gaming last year was the pile of poop that was colossal cave.

 

[Lambogenie]

"There are so many LGBTQ developers, and we want what players want - to design experiences that tell the player we're here, we're important, and we belong."

Not trying to sound like an asshole here, and I don’t have anything against gay and queer people etc, but besides its obviously not what players want, what we can see with all the games made with this crap sell nothing…

How are “they” important? They will never reproduce, they will not keep humanity running. If everyone would be like “them”, humanity would die out in 1 generation.

Now I don’t mind the odd lgbtq+++ character here and there in my media, like it was 10 years ago, but all this forced bullshit where everyone needs to be gay and a person of color is just stupid. If anything it’s so over represented in all kinds of media that people just don’t consume it anymore.

Hollywood is broke, Disney is broke, all DEI invested game studios are going broke, and it’s no wonder why. And for gods sake, if you speak out as a customer that you don’t like said content, you’re the bigot, racist, fascist and all the other crap, trying to tell the customer what they themselves actually are.

This is what I keep telling short sighted people. Half the world is already not reproducing and yet these companies want growth with young kids. It's simply not sustainable at the rate people aren't having kids and then you hladd a rise of this group who are often anti kids or cant/won't have.

And if you keep telling kids it's normal, they too probably won't have kids. You run out of kids to target.


This is all without the obvious financial struggles of people that do want/have kids.

The world is broken and DEI is not helping it at all in my opinion.

 

[ADiTAR]

Homosexuals are over represented in western media.

But OK Insomniac, pat yourself on the back.

If you see them everywhere maybe you are one?

That's a BS statement. They are not over represented. Gays are about 10% and they don't get leads or anything.

Just because you hate woke, as do I, doesn't mean LGBT characters can have more part in games. It's just the way you do it. The Last of Us did a wonderful job on the 3rd episode. It's all about how you do it.

 

[Banjo64]

Show me a gay male lead on a video game besides Curtis in Phantasmagoria 2 (1996) who was bisexual:

 

[tommib]

Love you, Banjo. Really do.

 

[mdkirby]

Remember when games design was about making them fun and not pushing some agendas? I remember.

Plenty of geek stuff, including games, and sci fi has always been very 'progressive', its just never felt so forced, disingenuous and hamfisted/OTT as it does now. When the original Star Trek had major characters who were black, and asian, and camp, it was major steps for diversity, but in terms of presentation and narrative they were handled like any other cast member, it didn't feel forced, and was 'normalising'.

 

[SJRB]

What this person needs to understand is the harder they push their agenda and politics, the more I will resent them for it. And if they push even more, I might actually start to hate them.

Not because I am a bigot, but because I don't give a shit about your sexuality, just like I don't give a shit about anyone's sexuality. I don't care. Your sexuality is not a personality trait or a narrative thread and if it is this just means to me that you are vapid as hell. You keep that shit private. But the more you rub it in my face, the more I will resent you for it.

It is a vicious downward spiral of their own making and it blows my mind how blind they seem to be to this. Plus this faux-oppression bit is getting stale. You live in the most liberal, freethinking countries in the world. You dominate videogames, movies, tv shows, magazines, advertisements and all other forms of entertainment. Nobody is out to get you.

You want to be a hero for the cause? Go to the Middle East or Russia and try your luck there.

 

[systemr123]

If you see them everywhere maybe you are one?

That's a BS statement. They are not over represented. Gays are about 10% and they don't get leads or anything.

Just because you hate woke, as do I, doesn't mean LGBT characters can have more part in games. It's just the way you do it. The Last of Us did a wonderful job on the 3rd episode. It's all about how you do it.

For the most part you might be right but they are a little bit over represented though in the latest games. TLOU 2, for example, Spider-man 2, almost all other (big studio) games as well.

Now, in the tv series of TLOU they did it well. I really felt for the people in question, very good episode. Also, the first TLOU game did it well.

To take an extreme example here that doesn’t represent all I know: Ass Creed Shadows. We have 2 main protagonists, not only is 1 horribly mispresented that was never a real samurai etc, and also the only black guy in Japan at the time, horribly misrepresenting the whole culture, now both of the protagonists are LGBTQ+ too.

How many characters can we choose that are more traditional, Japanese people, carrying 1700’s Japanese values? 0. None. Nothing at all, for a game series that always pride themselves in the past for historical accuracy (and mostly did).

Or take the new Gotham game, look what they’re doing with that, or really almost any single one game of big DEI infected publishers.

Also, no leads you say? What about Aloy the lesbian, forgot her name from TLOU2 lesbian, AC shadows both LGBTQ+ etc etc…

 

[mdkirby]

What this person needs to understand is the harder they push their agenda and politics, the more I will resent them for it. And if they push even more, I might actually start to hate them.

Not because I am a bigot, but because I don't give a shit about your sexuality, just like I don't give a shit about anyone's sexuality. I don't care. Your sexuality is not a personality trait or a narrative thread and if it is this just means to me that you are vapid as hell. You keep that shit private. But the more you rub it in my face, the more I will resent you for it.

It is a vicious downward spiral of their own making and it blows my mind how blind they seem to be to this. Plus this faux-oppression bit is getting stale. You live in the most liberal, freethinking countries in the world. You dominate videogames, movies, tv shows, magazines, advertisements and all other forms of entertainment. Nobody is out to get you.

You want to be a hero for the cause? Go to the Middle East or Russia and try your luck there.

This is a big factor imo in trumps frustratingly persistent and enduring popularity, among other things, it's a reaction to all of this stuff, and may very well get him elected again. The consequences of which i'm pretty sure they will not like at all, and will likely see some significant backwards steps in the progress and rights they fought long and hard for, it'll be 1 step forward, several steps back.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That's a lot of words to say exactly nothing

Well thank you for saying I shouldn't exist. You didn't have to be mean.

Those words do exist. Look them up and maybe you'll understand a little bit more on how much variety the trans gender umbrella has.

I'm not asking you to like it just show us respect like you would with other people.

 

[Rudius]

This is contributing to the crash of the game industry

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

Villains that want to become school janitors, angry feminist girlfriend, spider hero hating being a man /hero, 90% of white thugs in the cities, deaf green conscious black girl, Asian chubby friend, Latino alternative spider.... Isn't that enough?

 

[Clear]

Its incredibly stupid for *commercial* creatives to try and sell ideas that have no market value. If something is seen as unfashionable or worn-out its likely that it won't be accepted by the audience. You're trying to appeal to the mass market after all, so why weaken your offer?

This is doubly stupid when what you're trying to "sell" is something you deem to be genuinely valuable and important socially. Because your failure reflects poorly on your cause, and therefore weakens the "movement" as a whole!

Point being, especially if you agree with the idea that "representation is important", its incredibly stupid and counter-productive to stridently pitch it like this. You are simply accelerating your own downfall, and that of your entire cause!

 

[FingerBang]

All we need for LGBTQ+ and racial acceptance is for it to be shoved down out throats consistently. That has worked great so far so please keep on doing it and get angrier and angrier when people show dissent!

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

So they’re assuming that every character that isn’t openly, shout-it-from-the-roofs LGBTQ can’t be LGBTQ.

 

[Business]

Honestly I had to read the title twice. Then they will wonder why they are having to lay off people.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's working. The number of young people self-identifying as LGBTQ+ is at an absolute all-time high: 19.7%

I think most of them who call themself LGBTQ+ only want to make themselves feel more special because somehow being white and straight is seen as a negative thing. Much cooler to call yourself queer, non binary or bisexual. You can claim to be oppressed and marginalized and still go on living your old familiar heterosexual life.

Bill Maher called it out and hit the bull's eye with this segment: the current crop of LGBT folks are only "along for the pride".



BTW I'm also part of the "LGBT community" and I'm sick of all the pandering. There's so much of it and it's getting so crazy that it's created a negative counter reaction that will lead to less respect for and acceptance of LGBT people. We've let the inmates rule the asylum for too long.

I live my life and let others live theirs. I have my support groups where we hang out together and share our experiences. But I'm not demanding special privileges or inclusion in media. The only thing I want is the same respect that every person is shown. That really is it.

It's fine to be straight and its fine to be LGBTQ. I can get along with others no matter their orientation. I'm just a human being on this planet living my life in a way that makes me happy.

 

[WoJ]

I remember when Mass Effect 3 came out - you know, 12 years ago.

They added Steve Cortez who was a gay man. He was part of your crew on the Normandy. At the time I thought it was great how they added him. The way you found out he was gay was by a comment he made about his husband. It felt natural and was universally praised at the time. That game also added Samantha Traynor. I can't remember if she was gay or bi, but she was also a new, universally liked character who was LBGTQ and you only learned about it by romancing her or I think she may have said something in a couple of her conversations with Shepard. I think ME3 was the first game in the trilogy where Shepard could have same sex romances. Seeing as romance is a key part of the Mass Effect trilogy, and Shepard was a character who was intentionally malleable by the player, this addition made total sense.

All of these things were universally praised 12 years ago. Handled with dignity and respect toward the LBGTQ community. But also not the focus or primary consideration to these games. That was the foundation to build on for what these activists want. Instead, nothing is ever good enough.

 

[Alpha Male]

Just make a WNBA game.

*edit* Looks like it's a mode in 2K already

WNBA LIVE 08

 

[MasterCornholio]

I remember when Mass Effect 3 came out - you know, 12 years ago.

They added Steve Cortez who was a gay man. He was part of your crew on the Normandy. At the time I thought it was great how they added him. The way you found out he was gay was by a comment he made about his husband. It felt natural and was universally praised at the time. That game also added Samantha Traynor. I can't remember if she was gay or bi, but she was also a new, universally liked character who was LBGTQ and you only learned about it by romancing her or I think she may have said something in a couple of her conversations with Shepard. I think ME3 was the first game in the trilogy where Shepard could have same sex romances. Seeing as romance is a key part of the Mass Effect trilogy, and Shepard was a character who was intentionally malleable by the player, this addition made total sense.

All of these things were universally praised 12 years ago. Handled with dignity and respect toward the LBGTQ community. But also not the focus or primary consideration to these games. That was the foundation to build on for what these activists want. Instead, nothing is ever good enough.

I loved that as well. Most of us don't go around showing off what we are. We just want to live our lives in a way that suits us. I really don't like the activisits because those politicians use us to gain votes and put us in a spot light. It's why I hate the socialist government in Spain so much. They make it seem like we are demanding special privileges over straight people. But the reality is I just want to be treated like everyone else. I have a gay friend who tries to turn people gay and I keep telling him its best if people find out for themselves what they are. It does no good to manipulate an individual to become something they are not. But if someone is truly different then sure give them support and help guide them through life because it can be hard to be different.

I really should shut it now because this topic always hits me pretty hard. I'm sorry for the rants.

 

[Black_Stride]

I'm sorry to tell you that the general consensus there is is that you are all thieves. Of course that didn't match the reality, mostly Africans I met were the friendliest most open people.

Not China.
But Singapore,......maybe Taiwan (hard competish in Taiwan though).
Ive got other contacts there who say yes you wont be trusted until you prove yourself.
For me thats actually a good thing, my imposter syndrome kills me so hard cuz sometimes i think ive been hired because I meet the minimum requirements and just so happen to be black.
If i need to prove myself to get praise (yes I like praise) then so be it, even better actually.

Either way, experience is experience, so if im bottom of the barrel and hated irrationally, itll just remind me of being in the states. (the only place ive felt truly alien so far).

 

[systemr123]

I loved that as well. Most of us don't go around showing off what we are. We just want to live our lives in a way that suits us. I really don't like the activisits because those politicians use us to gain votes and put us in a spot light. It's why I hate the socialist government in Spain so much. They make it seem like we are demanding special privileges over straight people. But the reality is I just want to be treated like everyone else. I have a gay friend who tries to turn people gay and I keep telling him its best if people find out for themselves what they are. It does no good to manipulate an individual to become something they are not. But if someone is truly different then sure give them support and help guide them through life because it can be hard to be different.

I really should shut it now because this topic always hits me pretty hard. I'm sorry for the rants.

I think before Covid acceptance and equality of lgbtq+ people and people of color or race or whatever was much higher than now. Somehow a movement has started a few years ago that feels it needs to segregate and discriminate everything that’s not like them (insert any activist group here). And on top of that they got speaking platforms like TikTok and Twitter etc so everyone can hear their destructive opinions.

Those people/activists, actually make acceptance of all people, including white peoples etc, worse than ever before because they all act like fascists and try to condemn and ridicule anyone who has a different, and likely “normal” opinion about these subjects.

This whole movement can end in only one way, and it’s not good for anyone, unless the world corrects itself by universally come to the conclusion that racism, bigotry, segregation, and discrimination are bad, in all cases, and return to “normal” where everyone is truly equal again.

 

[The Infectious Paradox]

For years, I stood up for the LGBT community. But it's shit like this that fatigued me. Shoving it down people's throats for acceptance. It's just annoying at this point. And I feel kinda bad for the gay population bc it's the people with power trying to get a check box filled causing this issue. I'm over it.

 

[Moriarty1889]

The studio head, Ted Price, should fire this fucking clown. It's YOUR responsibility not to allow your games to be ruined by p3ople like this. You already allowed Spiderman 2 to become a clown show with all the wokeness. Wake up!

Good old Ted has allowed this just look at Spiderman 2. Insomniac have been poisoned to the core with insane lunatics. Their only agenda is to insert their sick sexual perversions and twisted sense of reality into games. In their fantasy world most people are gay and want this garbage in gaming. The fact that this is all they care and talk about shows they give two fucks for the actual product they are making. It is just a way for them to keep pushing their perverted messaging and hoping to infect others. Yes, if Ted Price was a real manager of the studio and wasn’t fucked in the head like the people he employs, he would fire this individual and all others who are actively ruining Insomniac Games products and reputation. But he propably won‘t and I wonder why?

 

[Guilty_AI]

Show me a gay male lead on a video game besides Curtis in Phantasmagoria 2 (1996) who was bisexual:

It's actually a good thing to think about. They are overrepresented, but this overrepresentation comes in the form of side characters, lesbian women MCs or optional relationships and leads. Its almost like these companies have no real interest in representation™ and just want to check as much boxes as possible in the safest manners they can think of.

Btw, to give you an answer:

 

[MH3M3D]

Keep this crap out of games. Enough gender dysphoria and other mental issues forced down your throat in movies and tv shows.