Support NeoGAF

[Carlisle]

Third week of 5/7 IF, easiest yet by far.

- no headache
- no crankiness
- no loss of power
- almost no stomach rumble

I'm already at 25h, should have a small soup based dinner today and maybe a fruit but for the first time I don't feel the urge to dash to the fridge the moment I hit 24h. Made it through the day with a single Americano and San Pellegrino water

Doing this as well. Pretty amazing how much easier it gets. I've also been surprised by how my body has adjusted. Even during the hours when I can eat, my appetite is greatly reduced. After a decent entree and a small side I'm stuffed, whereas before I'd still be hungry for dessert and then a small snack later. It really resets your body's expectations to a more reasonable level.

Unfortunately as I started my third week, I've gotten an unrelated infection and my dr put me on antibiotics for a week. So I'm going to put a hold on fasting while I give my body a chance to heal. Can't wait to get back on it.

 

[effzee]

I'm hitting the gym again and have a basic understanding of Martin's Leangains method but I'm confused about the preworkout meal.

As I recall, he mentions that it would be "harmful" to work out on an empty stomach and recommends a preworkout meal.


On his website he mentions taking BCAA preworkout. Is the BCAA's the same as a preworkout meal? Or are we talking carb/protein meal. The reason why I think he recommends these are because they are proteins your body will need during working out. You aren't really breaking the fast because they are pretty much 0 calorie so that's why these are recommended?

I took it as a protein shake intake 5-15 minutes before your work out. I don't have the BCAA powder and won't until I finish my current supply of Whey Protein so I just use that.


5-15 minutes before my workout drink a protein shake
Work out
Right after work out have the largest meal of the day

Though my protein shake isn't 0 calorie so I don't know if what I am doing is working against the plan. Are there 0 calorie protein shakes/powders? 0 calorie BCAA?

 

[Kraftwerk]

I've gone from 153 to 140 since starting this. I'm going to start insanity next week to get more toned.

Love this shit!

 

[entremet]

Anyone have the original Leangains diet? I have the workout, FAQ etc. but not the exact diet suggestion.

It's not a diet per se. He gives macro and caloric recommendations. Just fit those numbers within the feeding window. Flexible dieting.

 

[tbhysgb]

When I started my current job I used to go all day without eating. Most days I'd eat lunch before work and that was it. I got my weight to 250(I've been rly big my whole life so 250 was crazy for me). Then I met my wife(I met her after 6 months so in about 8 months I saw crazy results) and I'm up to around 278 because she would always yell at me for not eating. It was an eye opening experience for sure. I'm thinking about doing Friday Monday fasts. Friday is the first day of my workweek Monday is last.

 

[FinKL]

I took it as a protein shake intake 5-15 minutes before your work out. I don't have the BCAA powder and won't until I finish my current supply of Whey Protein so I just use that.


5-15 minutes before my workout drink a protein shake
Work out
Right after work out have the largest meal of the day

Though my protein shake isn't 0 calorie so I don't know if what I am doing is working against the plan. Are there 0 calorie protein shakes/powders? 0 calorie BCAA?

It's very up in the air. What you said, was what I originally interpreted as. He recommended BCAA/protein to help promote "muscle protein synthesis" during working out.

There are two ways I was thinking about it though:

A) Workout Fasted - Your body will tap into you're body's energy reserve (fats?) when put under stress/working out since there is nothing in your stomach and nothing coming in. This would explain why, when losing weight, it's recommended to workout first thing in the morning or on an empty stomach.

B) Preworkout Meal - Your body will tap into the preworkout meal first before tapping into your bodies' energy reserve. It's natural for your body to keep fats until it's truly needed (think of the caveman that needed to keep warm). So because there was food coming in, your body knows not to tap into the reserve, but to continue assuming that there will be a constant influx of food coming in (Feeding state)

Any correction would be appreciated.

I know postworkout, Martin recommends high good carbs, med protein, low good fats. High carbs as you don't want your body to take from your muscles.

The BCAA's (Scivation Xtend) in front of me have 5 calories a scoop 0 fat/cholest/sugar/carbs.

 

[MooseKing]

I am currently eating Ketogenic right now. I was thinking about adding in some IF.

I was thinking 2 days fasting per week.

Ketogenic has improved my skin, nails, and hair a lot. I also have more energy. So much so that I find it hard to sleep at night.

I was thinking of fasting every tuesday and Friday from 8 am until 8 am the following day. I will eat nothing at all the entire day. Just drink water.

Is this correct? Should I fast more times a week, or will two help?

I have no problem not eating food. That part does not bother me. I just need to get a plan and follow it. I am finding lots of conflicting info on the web.

 

[CountAntonius]

I am currently eating Ketogenic right now. I was thinking about adding in some IF.

I was thinking 2 days fasting per week.

Ketogenic has improved my skin, nails, and hair a lot. I also have more energy. So much so that I find it hard to sleep at night.

I was thinking of fasting every tuesday and Friday from 8 am until 8 am the following day. I will eat nothing at all the entire day. Just drink water.

Is this correct? Should I fast more times a week, or will two help?

I have no problem not eating food. That part does not bother me. I just need to get a plan and follow it. I am finding lots of conflicting info on the web.

I do two days. Dinner to dinner the next day no food. Two days is sufficient.

 

[AEREC]

Thinking about easing into the 5/2 diet. I dont want to just jump in and go 24 hours without food for my first fast but basically on my 2 days (tues/thurs) I would just eat an energy bar for lunch and some trial mix until I can gradually remove those after a few weeks.

Does anyone have any tips for easing into a 24 hour fast?

 

[Chittagong]

Thinking about easing into the 5/2 diet. I dont want to just jump in and go 24 hours without food for my first fast but basically on my 2 days (tues/thurs) I would just eat an energy bar for lunch and some trial mix until I can gradually remove those after a few weeks.

Does anyone have any tips for easing into a 24 hour fast?

It's counter intuitive, but actually eating that bar and trail mix will make you hungrier and will make settling into the fast harder.

I would rather suggest you start with a 16/8 fast, so have amoderate dinner (tomato soup, slice of wholegrain bread) at, say, 8pm. Fast until 2pm the next day and then have some reasonable food (healthy and not binging) again. This is pretty easy because after the dinner you can definitely last to until you go to sleep, and when waking up, not eating until 2pm isn't really a thing at all.

Start with a few of those, and when you manage that just begin pushing until 8pm instead of 2pm. It's not really very hard. Black coffee helps immensely.

 

[marvelharvey]

Slightly off topic:

I've been eating about half a pound (200g) of chocolate every day for about 20 years and no matter how I hard tried, I just couldn't kick the addiction. I may have been able to go for 24 hours, but then I'd 'reward' myself by eating almost double the amount the next day. That's a lot of chocolate.

Then a couple of weeks ago I went on a 6 day water-only-fast (which was a lot easier than I thought) and since breaking the fast, my chocolate cravings have completely gone. Not a single chocolatey chunk for two weeks.

Fasting is awesome.

 

[MooseKing]

One last question about doing 5./2.

Yesterday was my first day of trying this fasting stuff out. Was pretty easy. I have not eaten in 24 hours and am cooking up something to eat now.

However, I have read a good amount, and nothing I read says to not eat anything for 24 hours. They say eat 4 hours then not again for 20. That, or they say eat 600 calories over the 24 hour "fast".

Is not eating for the full 24 hours safe? Do they just say to eat up to 600 calories or not eat for only 20 hours because most people can't go 24 hours without food?

 

[Arksy]

I think this type of dieting isn't for me. I found it very difficult the three times I tried it. As soon as I crashed I ate a high volume of bad food and binged for a good day or two afterwards. I wouldn't mind trying again but I'm not sure how to keep the binge at the end in check.

 

[Chittagong]

One last question about doing 5./2.

Yesterday was my first day of trying this fasting stuff out. Was pretty easy. I have not eaten in 24 hours and am cooking up something to eat now.

However, I have read a good amount, and nothing I read says to not eat anything for 24 hours. They say eat 4 hours then not again for 20. That, or they say eat 600 calories over the 24 hour "fast".

Is not eating for the full 24 hours safe? Do they just say to eat up to 600 calories or not eat for only 20 hours because most people can't go 24 hours without food?

It's perfectly safe, and indeed extremely beneficial, to go a full 24 hours without eating. The benefits peak at 18 hours and stay strong for a while after.

Contrary to popular belief you won't feel dizzy (at least after the first time), you won't faint, you will be able to do sports. The hardest part is to psychologically grasp this, we modern human have been very deeply conditioned to think that we will fall over if we don't eat for a while.

My routine is

Sunday medium dinner by 8PM - e.g. fresh pasta and fish
FAST Sun 8PM to Mon 8PM
Monday light dinner after 8PM - e.g. tomato soup, loaf of wholegrain bread (tastes godly!!)
Tuesday normal eating all day, medium dinner by 8PM, similar to dinner on Sunday
FAST Tue 8PM to Wed 8PM
Wednesday - light dinner after 8PM, similar to dinner on Monday
Thurday - Sunday - normal eating until Sunday 8PM

It's a super easy routine. Monday goes on the sheer satisfaction from the weekend, and the satisfaction you get from the light dinners makes the wait worth it.

I never do the 600 calories during a fast day, I only have black coffee and water. No milk or gum even. I have found that food actually makes you hungry, so by eating those 600 calories will make you feel much more hungry than 0 calories would.

For reference, I also do a lot of sports in between

Monday - Spin 7AM, Lift 4PM
Tuesday - Lift 4PM
Wednesday - Spin 7AM, Lift 12PM
Thursday - Spin 7AM
Friday - Lift 9AM
Saturday - Spin 10AM
Sunday - REST, maybe a light walk at most

I have doubled up on cardio for the fasted days to make most out of it.

 

[Kanyon]

I like your workout/fasting progrsm Chittagong... But I do have one question and forgive me if this sounds stupid... With the Leangains program, are we supposed to do it everyday or just on cardio/weights/certain days?

From what I've read so far a normal day on IF (for me) would be:

6:00am - Workout (weights/boxing/cardio)
12:00pm - Fasting ends/First meal
8:00pm - Last meal/Fasting begins

And as time goes on, increase the fasting period from 16 hours upwards?

 

[MikeE21286]

So I've kind of inadvertently done this throughout different parts of my life.

Thinking about jumping in and really focusing on staying on a regimen though.

I'm not looking to lose weight really, but actually slowly gain (like 0.5 lbs per week or so) while gaining muscle and burning fat.

Have those of you on this "diet" experienced loss in muscle or strength over this time? That's my biggest concern.

 

[FinKL]

I like your workout/fasting progrsm Chittagong... But I do have one question and forgive me if this sounds stupid... With the Leangains program, are we supposed to do it everyday or just on cardio/weights/certain days?

And as time goes on, increase the fasting period from 16 hours upwards?

The leangains method is pretty much when to eat and gives you an outline of the feeding times. Specifically, you fast 16 hours and feed 8 hours every day. The other big thing is that your biggest meal of the day is immediately post workout. "By placing the largest calorie load in a period where the muscles are most responsive, which is the hours after your workout, you’re creating an ideal situation for muscle hypertrophy."

Have those of you on this "diet" experienced loss in muscle or strength over this time? That's my biggest concern.

That's a myth. There are a number of reasons why you won't lose muscle.
1) It takes 40hours to breakdown muscle assuming you are completely fasted for 40hrs. The guide is 16hours not even halfway to 40.

2) The last meal of the fast should also be supplied with a slow digesting protein. Casein is known to be a slow digesting protein and as I recall, it can take several hours before it's fully digested. It won't be until the Casein is fully digested and 40hrs after that your body will break down muscle.

You'll only lose strength/muscle if you do excessive cardio everyday and don't supply enough calories.

 

[Chittagong]

I like your workout/fasting progrsm Chittagong... But I do have one question and forgive me if this sounds stupid... With the Leangains program, are we supposed to do it everyday or just on cardio/weights/certain days?

From what I've read so far a normal day on IF (for me) would be:

6:00am - Workout (weights/boxing/cardio)
12:00pm - Fasting ends/First meal
8:00pm - Last meal/Fasting begins

And as time goes on, increase the fasting period from 16 hours upwards?

What FinKL said.

I haven't been able to find any consensus on whether fasted cardio is the best or worst thing ever. You are definitely not required to do as much as I do. The reason I have so much of it is that I really, really enjoy a few pints and a pack of crisps every now and then, and I need to burn them out somehow. Life would be really miserable otherwise. So two 1h sessions give me about 4 pints and two small packs of crisps, easy to remember.

Personally, I found the Eat Stop Eat method of 5/2 much easier than Berkhan's 16/8. There are two reasons for this.

First, in 5/2 you need to worry about it only twice a week, so it doesn't feel like very much having just two fast days out of seven rather than 16 hours of every single day, and it is socially easier to shuffle around two fast days in case you have days when you simply can't fast.

Second, I found out that the feeding window opening always gave too much of a psychological incentive to overeat, while doing the full 24h fast and then a light meal is again very simple to stick to. The next day you won't feel any hungrier so you won't risk overeating as much.

This is very personal though. Try both and see which you find easier. I am coming just towards the end of my this week's second and last fast, feel great, did tons of sports and now look forward to some sushi tonight. Good times.

 

[MikeE21286]

That's a myth. There are a number of reasons why you won't lose muscle.
1) It takes 40hours to breakdown muscle assuming you are completely fasted for 40hrs. The guide is 16hours not even halfway to 40.

2) The last meal of the fast should also be supplied with a slow digesting protein. Casein is known to be a slow digesting protein and as I recall, it can take several hours before it's fully digested. It won't be until the Casein is fully digested and 40hrs after that your body will break down muscle.

You'll only lose strength/muscle if you do excessive cardio everyday and don't supply enough calories.

Nice.

I might want to work on my ratio then. I was thinking 16/8 (since that fits in with my work schedule) but I play basketball about 2-3 times a week for about 1.5 hours so I think I might run a calorie deficit ---I'll need to track and monitor it.

Oh yeah, I'm all over the Casein protein. I normally get it through some lower-sodium cottage cheese.

 

[Kanyon]

The leangains method is pretty much when to eat and gives you an outline of the feeding times. Specifically, you fast 16 hours and feed 8 hours every day.

Awesome, that's what I needed to know. A follow up question though, am I allowed to drink water during the fast or is it a complete fast with absolutely nothing allowed?

You'll only lose strength/muscle if you do excessive cardio everyday and don't supply enough calories.

I should have been more clear with my routine... I do weights three times per week, cardio/boxing twice a week and I play indoor soccer once a week. So I basically do a workout everyday with one rest day.

I'm looking forward to doing this, I'm starting my fasting today... Going to begin with 16/8 and then hopefully make my way up to 20/4.

 

[Chittagong]

Awesome, that's what I needed to know. A follow up question though, am I allowed to drink water during the fast or is it a complete fast with absolutely nothing allowed?

Water is absolutely vital, drink a lot of it. And black coffee is great too, curbs any hunger - no sugar or milk with it then!

 

[FinKL]

Like Chittagong said, you can never have enough water. I aim for a gallon (100oz) a day.

I do water, black coffee, or green tea over ice as my morning drinks. Saves you $ and time since you don't have to worry about breakfast.

Drinking water also kinda forces you to skip the bad stuff (sugary drinks etc.)

 

[Kanyon]

Awesome... I drink a lot of water normally so that shouldn't be a problem. I usually drink about 8 - 10 glasses a day already, I should probably measure that.

What are your meals like during your feeding windows, I tend to eat smaller meals normally. From what I've been reading around the net, it's best to avoid gorging and ruining all the good work during the fasting period.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

I live by IF now!

So much easer just eating like once a day... I usually just have a big meal and crash. Post workout if I workout... and if I do eat during the day I usually am satasfied all day till the next morning that is. Eating at night ill be good till late afternoon the next day.

But I had been doing IF off and on for months, then got serious this past summer.


Since I had been doing IF for a while, I decided to try a long term water only fast! Probably not something you can hop into if you have not been doing IF for a while, or unless you have amazing willpower but theres a lot of good benefits for doing a water only fast.


I used it for cutting and getting lean, and no I didn't lose much (or any muscle) from what I am aware of...

I fasted from 12/10/2012 - 1/8/2013 Water only... no vitamins or anything either.

Older Photo of me @ 190-185 LBS

After Fasting @ 171LBS

 

[Chittagong]

Awesome... I drink a lot of water normally so that shouldn't be a problem. I usually drink about 8 - 10 glasses a day already, I should probably measure that.

What are your meals like during your feeding windows, I tend to eat smaller meals normally. From what I've been reading around the net, it's best to avoid gorging and ruining all the good work during the fasting period.

Today I did a bit bigger than usual feed after 24h fast, mainly because I had done both spinning and gym today and actually felt hungry (you'll find out that actually feeling hungry is much more rare than you think). I had

18 pc nigiri & maki box
Kaiso salad

and later on

Two moderate portions of All Bran & semi skimmed milk & grapes

So I did a total of over 1000 kcal, recommended is 600 kcal. Typically I would just have some tomato soup and some artisan bread, which comes up to 350 kcal. All was pretty good nutritionally, although All Bran is my last processed food of shame, once I am done with this box I'll switch to organic handmade granola.

Snake, really good job, impressive muscle retention in your upper body. What's your gym regime like?

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

Today I did a bit bigger than usual feed after 24h fast, mainly because I had done both spinning and gym today and actually felt hungry (you'll find out that actually feeling hungry is much more rare than you think). I had

18 pc nigiri & maki box
Kaiso salad

and later on

Two moderate portions of All Bran & semi skimmed milk & grapes

So I did a total of over 1000 kcal, recommended is 600 kcal. Typically I would just have some tomato soup and some artisan bread, which comes up to 350 kcal. All was pretty good nutritionally, although All Bran is my last processe dfoor of shame, once I am done with this box I'll switch to organic handmade granola.

Snake, really good job, impressive muscle retention in your upper body. What's your gym regime like?

Thanks!

I've made progress, but I still have a ways to go. I want to get down to 8%-10% Body fat. Im currently 18% in the last picture.

My routine is a three day split.

Triceps, Chest, Shoulders (lateral and anterior)
Biceps, Upper Back, Shoulders (Rear Delts), Forearms
Leg and Lowerback (w/ Deadlifts)

I work each muscle group with two workouts, ranging from 5-8 Sets, reps usually 8-12 at the highest. I don't do cardio anymore... waste of time IMO saving that glycogen for my weight training and will use fasting to cut up.

If I do cardio now, its just to work on my endurance.

 

[Kanyon]

Today I did a bit bigger than usual feed after 24h fast, mainly because I had done both spinning and gym today and actually felt hungry (you'll find out that actually feeling hungry is much more rare than you think).

Surprisingly, after a big workout this morning I haven't been too famished - Been drinking a lot of water and for my first meal I just had a chicken & avocado wrap and a small serve of Greek yoghurt. I feel surprisingly satisfied but I think the big test for me is to get through the afternoon at work.

Tomorrow will also be a real test for my willpower as well as I usually do a solid hour of boxing training on Friday mornings and I tend to sweat like a pig and get rather famished. I'm going to stick with it through sheer for of willpower!

 

[TheBear]

So is missing breakfast the same as IF, coz I miss that shit all the time

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

So is missing breakfast the same as IF, coz I miss that shit all the time

Depends on when you eat later in the day. I personally don't count anything IF till its been at least 12-16hrs since my last meal (includes the 7-8hrs I sleep) I don't eat till usually 2PM-3PM.... most days I just fast all day till 8PM then I eat one meal and crash.

Does wonders for cutting, and I like training fasted.

 

[Kanyon]

Yeah I've been doing IF for about a week now, so far so good... Started with a 7 hour feeding window and over the course of the week have reduced it to a 4 hour window.

At first it was a bit hard but drinking a shitload of water solves the hunger pains and that I'm starting to look a little leaner. Long way to go though still, going to keep at it and probably stick to 20 hour fasting/4 hour feed window.

Do have a small question though, I know liquid intake should be restricted to just water and/or black coffee but is Gatorade/Powerade allowed at all or should I steer clear of those because of the sugar/sodium content? I haven't drank any energy replenishing drinks over the past week just in case.

Thoughts?

 

[Chris R]

I do the 5/2 diet (I fast every tuesday and thursday) and it's been fucking amazing. Weight, blood work and overall health has improved a lot and I wasn't even that unhealthy to begin with.

Beer gut? Gone.
Borderline blood pressure? Gone.
Borderline blood sugar? Gone.

It seriously feels like some voodoo magic.

And I'll tell you what, the hardest part about fasting is the social part. A lot of people think its weird and don't understand it.

Are you hitting 650ish calories on your fast days? Going to start this on Thursday and try it for a month to see how I feel while on it and to see if I see any results from it.

 

[Ixian]

There's a 5/2 diet where you flat out do not eat on those two days, too.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Post this here too I guess.

I'm on my second 24 hour fasting day this week. My first week of trying it. Hoping two 24 hour fast days per week will help me drop some pounds when paired with T-25 workout I also started this week.

Monday went well for the fast, today I feel a bit hungry though. I still am drinking coffee and tea.

It is interesting. I hope I see some results from the fasting and the workouts. I have about 15 pounds I'd like to lose and have been stuck for a while.