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[Hades Hotgun]

Well, it just comes off as a bit of weird, because it's not handled like the beta ray bill thing, like i don't remember what arc was going on, but it involved a prep speech written by reed to his kids that went like

"I am a man of science, there is no god, nothing we do matters, therefore we need to make the thing we do matter"

Im paraphrasing, but the point is it was pretty hamfisted like that, and i think writing something like that after the jack kirby tribute is really wonky, i don't expect reed to convert to a religion and start preaching, but making him say things like that seems like poor writing.

But, yeah, opinions.

Yeah, poor writing is pretty much par for the course with superhero comics. All the more so when the folks writing are trying to make scientific observations that they themselves don't understand.

On the potential weirdness of religion in these universes, in the Marvel universe, Catholics believe in the Rapture. Shit is crazy.

 

[The Artisan]

So she doesn't count until she gets in a movie or live action show?

No, she really doesn't. Whatever point OP was making about LBGT characters, my point is a complete tangent and off topic from that. I'm talking about characters from these backgrounds being made mainstream. And so far, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Starring in cartoons as well as popular online and mobile games isn't enough? Yet you reference Dust as a Muslim hero you knew, but haven't heard of Kamala Khan? C'mon bro.

I only knew about Dust because when I was a kid I was trying to just know about fictional Muslim characters. If I hadn't done that I probably would never know there was a Muslim Xmen, either.

Kamala's pretty entrenched for the new generation. Give her time, but she's already almost universally beloved by the comic community and has tons of appearances in other media.

Good for her. I didn't know about her till this thread so it was a pleasant surprise.

To be fair I don't think there are many heroes where religion plays a part of who they are.

That is fair, but look at it like this. The race of several characters don't play a part of who they are, so film studios have taken the liberty of changing their races, usually making a white character black. The only two characters that I can think of that are devout are Nightcrawler and Matt Murdock. Is th fact that they are devout the important thing? Or is it also important to keep them Catholic? How would a fanbase react if they were changed to being Muslims in a live action adaptation?

 

[Father_Brain]

Given the way Alonso name dropped a potential Iceman book at SDCC when talking about LGBT character led books and the fact that it exists I don't see it getting ignored tbqh.

If they do the PR right, I'll praise them for it. But in Alonso alone, we're talking about someone who retweeted a Gamergater's meme mocking the notion of Hercules being bi/gay, who refused to talk about Angela's sexuality, who has given numerous interviews where he failed to mention LGBT characters in the context of overall diversity at Marvel... I could go on, but suffice it to say I'm not a big fan and he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt from me.

 

[Sandfox]

If they do the PR right, I'll praise them for it. But in Alonso alone, we're talking about someone who retweeted a Gamergater's meme mocking the notion of Hercules being bi/gay, who refused to talk about Angela's sexuality, who has given numerous interviews where he failed to mention LGBT characters in the context of overall diversity at Marvel... I could go on, but suffice it to say I'm not a big fan and he hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt from me.

The thing about that though is if we assume these moves are in response to complaints about Marvel's lack of LGBT content then we should expect them to acknowledge it. I agree with you though.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

That is fair, but look at it like this. The race of several characters don't play a part of who they are, so film studios have taken the liberty of changing their races, usually making a white character black. The only two characters that I can think of that are devout are Nightcrawler and Matt Murdock. Is th fact that they are devout the important thing? Or is it also important to keep them Catholic? How would a fanbase react if they were changed to being Muslims in a live action adaptation?

No, it's important to keep them Catholic. I'm not overly familiar with Muslim religious culture but I dont think they have the same self-guilt and internal loathing attached to them like Catholicism. One of the big features of Matt and Kurt's their characters is how they internalize this loathing, and don't feel worthy enough to progress down their paths. From s visual standpoint, they're both designed to look devilish and the irony comes from how devote they are to Christianity. I'm not sure if Muslim religions depict the devil and demons like some Christians do, so I don't think the costume theming would work out. Aldo, I don't believe Islam comes attached with the same self loathing and guilt as Catholicism.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

I remember one of the early issues of X-Force had a little exchange between Cannonball and Cable that indicated the former being religious and the latter not at all. And actually, I'm pretty sure Sam and all the Guthries are shown to be pretty strong Southern Baptists from the beginning.

 

[The Artisan]

No, it's important to keep them Catholic. I'm not overly familiar with Muslim religious culture but I dont think they have the same self-guilt and internal loathing attached to them like Catholicism. One of the big features of Matt and Kurt's their characters is how they internalize this loathing, and don't feel worthy enough to progress down their paths. From s visual standpoint, they're both designed to look devilish and the irony comes from how devote they are to Christianity. I'm not sure if Muslim religions depict the devil and demons like some Christians do, so I don't think the costume theming would work out. Aldo, I don't believe Islam comes attached with the same self loathing and guilt as Catholicism.

To me it would've been important to make sure Sif and Heimdall were siblings. I don't think it even matters that they cast Idris Elba as Heimdall, since they're not human but even then they decided to skip the sibling thing.

So you would have a problem with them changing the faith of a devout character? It's only acceptable to generate new characters who have that faith but unacceptable to have an adaptation where one who is Catholic is instead Muslim?

As for your concerns about self loathing and angels & demons and the like, that's there in Islam. All of it. But it depends on how religious you are.

 

[-sdp]

To force someone to do something is not the way to do it. That's how we ended up with so many terrible minority superheroes in the past. Changing races/Sextan preferences of established characters is another way not to do it.

 

[Sblargh]

No, it's important to keep them Catholic. I'm not overly familiar with Muslim religious culture but I dont think they have the same self-guilt and internal loathing attached to them like Catholicism. One of the big features of Matt and Kurt's their characters is how they internalize this loathing, and don't feel worthy enough to progress down their paths. From s visual standpoint, they're both designed to look devilish and the irony comes from how devote they are to Christianity. I'm not sure if Muslim religions depict the devil and demons like some Christians do, so I don't think the costume theming would work out. Aldo, I don't believe Islam comes attached with the same self loathing and guilt as Catholicism.

I don't know if Kurt's thing is the guilt aspect of catholicism, seems to be more the inclusion and sense of community. A catholic community is a weird thing, it's like, "I fucking hate you and I hope you get kicked in the teeth, but it's sunday, we're inside the church, so I love you".

The church to Nightcrawler was always a kind of sanctuary, it's a place where he goes to escape judgement from people because his conscience is clear and has nothing to fear from God's judgdement.
Daredevil is the opposite, he goes to church knowing he will feel judged because his conscience is a mess.

Both rock the devil look, but Matt is the only who feels like a devil. After all, he is the one who chooses to look like one out of his own free will.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

The best Marvel character is Muslim.

Carol is Muslim?

Spoiler

ha

 

[The Artisan]

I don't know if Kurt's thing is the guilt aspect of catholicism, seems to be more the inclusion and sense of community. A catholic community is a weird thing, it's like, "I fucking hate you and I hope you get kicked in the teeth, but it's sunday, we're inside the church, so I love you".

The church to Nightcrawler was always a kind of sanctuary, it's a place where he goes to escape judgement from people because his conscience is clear and has nothing to fear from God's judgdement.
Daredevil is the opposite, he goes to church knowing he will feel judged because his conscience is a mess.

Both rock the devil look, but Matt is the only who feels like a devil. After all, he is the one who chooses to look like one out of his own free will.

The concept of the devil is in Islam. It's an Abrahamic faith, it's just called something different.

 

[Parallax]

The best Marvel character is Muslim.

yes. excalibur is pretty dope. underused too

 

[Shaanyboi]

I'll go back and watch now that I know you worked on it and it's Slayven Approved™. I dropped it like a rock after a few episodes, but I was still REALLY salty about EMH (hell, still am).

I'd say just jump into Season 2, and you'll find it's a more consistent show. Episode 7 and the 2-part finale from Season 1 is the only ones that really carries over in a meaningful way.

 

[Escape Goat]

Is Earth 2 Green Lantern still gay? I know its DC but I liked how they made him gay without a super special issue where he gets married.

 

[Hades Hotgun]

I don't know if Kurt's thing is the guilt aspect of catholicism, seems to be more the inclusion and sense of community. A catholic community is a weird thing, it's like, "I fucking hate you and I hope you get kicked in the teeth, but it's sunday, we're inside the church, so I love you".

The church to Nightcrawler was always a kind of sanctuary, it's a place where he goes to escape judgement from people because his conscience is clear and has nothing to fear from God's judgdement.
Daredevil is the opposite, he goes to church knowing he will feel judged because his conscience is a mess.

Both rock the devil look, but Matt is the only who feels like a devil. After all, he is the one who chooses to look like one out of his own free will.

I actually really hate how Nightcrawler was presented in the x-men films because of this. Kurt is a character who found his family in the church, without judgement or condemnation of who he was. He isn't a brooding, loner as you might expect from a character who looks like a demon, but rather a happy and friendly person who flips expectations around and represents the most positive elements of a religious faith.

 

[Memento Mori]

Is Earth 2 Green Lantern still gay? I know its DC but I liked how they made him gay without a super special issue where he gets married.

Yeah but IIRC his fiancee got killed off in the same issue he proposed.

 

[The Artisan]

yes. excalibur is pretty dope. underused too

excalibur? wikipedia says it is a team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_(comics)

 

[Slayven]

Hank Pym is a hard core atheist that dated a hardcore fundamental christian.

It was interesting run, it was coming off his suicidal period.

 

[Escape Goat]

Yeah but IIRC his fiancee got killed off in the same issue he proposed.

RIP gay lover

I think the best way a gay character was handled was Sunfire in Exiles. There were subtle hints throughout the entire run. She was a cool character.

 

[Slayven]

RIP gay lover

I think the best way a gay character was handled was Sunfire in Exiles. There were subtle hints throughout the entire run. She was a cool character.

Exiles was too good for this world.

 

[Escape Goat]

Exiles was too good for this world.

[/IMG]

 

[Parallax]

excalibur? wikipedia says it is a team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excalibur_(comics)

that one needs a new series, but i was talking about this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faiza_Hussain

 

[Hades Hotgun]

RIP gay lover

I think the best way a gay character was handled was Sunfire in Exiles. There were subtle hints throughout the entire run. She was a cool character.

Since Mystique isn't specifically gay I won't argue with that but I will posit that she at least had the best homosexual relationship.

Mystique/Destiny is the standard to be judged against.

 

[Platy]

That’s not to say Marvel doesn’t have any LGBT characters at the moment

Marvel have LGB characters, but with Angela cancelation they went away with the only T character they had.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

They also need to work on their minority representation.

 

[Kalentan]

Marvel have LGB characters, but with Angela cancelation they went away with the only T character they had.

This Angela? I don't see any mention of being transsexual?

 

[Hades Hotgun]

This Angela? I don't see any mention of being transsexual?

http://www.themarysue.com/angela-asgards-assassin-trans-character/

 

[Sou Da]

This Angela? I don't see any mention of being transsexual?

A supporting character of hers.

 

[Kalentan]

http://www.themarysue.com/angela-asgards-assassin-trans-character/

A supporting character of hers.

Ah. Interesting. TIL.

 

[Slayven]

They also need to work on their minority representation.

Taste the Rainbow

 

[The Artisan]

that one needs a new series, but i was talking about this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faiza_Hussain

Oh I see. Two Pakistani Muslim Marvel characters, very nice.

Taste the Rainbow

black panther lookin like the baddest of the asses

 

[mreddie]

Hank Pym is a hard core atheist that dated a hardcore fundamental christian.

It was interesting run, it was coming off his suicidal period.

Wait who?

 

[Slayven]

Oh I see. Two Pakistani Muslim Marvel characters, very nice.
black panther lookin like the baddest of the asses

HE has to be with Carol getting knocked out by tables and shit

Wait who?

Firebird

 

[shingi70]

So she doesn't count until she gets in a movie or live action show? Starring in cartoons as well as popular online and mobile games isn't enough? Yet you reference Dust as a Muslim hero you knew, but haven't heard of Kamala Khan? C'mon bro.




On a side note, is there any DC books with black leads currently running besides cyborg? I'm almost exclusively reading comics with black leads and marvel has me very satisfied atm.

As some noted Vigilante Southland starts tomorrow, Black Wally West is pretty big in flash and Teen Titans.

There's a Vixen one shit coming up and she's going to in Justice League of America.

Odyssey of the Amazons starts in January and it has Hessia as the main character

Not alot right now, but it's a start. For overall minority and pOc you also have.

Blue Beetle
Batwoman coming soon
Midnighter and Apollo
Hellblazer
Harley Quinn
Green Lanterns
Doctor Fate (which is ending)
New Superman
Superwoman
Batgirl
Batgirl and the birds of prey
Wonder Woman
Gotham Acadmey
Green Arrow
Suicide Squad el Diablo

 

[mreddie]

Firebird

You know she's in limbo when the last thing anyone seen her in was fucking Lego Avengers.

 

[Slayven]

You know she's in limbo when the last thing anyone seen her in was fucking Lego Avengers.

But someone remembered to put her in legos avengers

 

[Kaiterra]

that one needs a new series, but i was talking about this one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faiza_Hussain

Was talking about the X-Men reboot with some friends and one of them was saying they wanted Excalibur to come back and I realized that I'm just straight up surprised it hasn't returned as a solo book for Faiza Hussain (Or a team up book with her and Black Knight or something)

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

They also need to work on their minority representation.

To add on with black representation:

And thats just the stuff I'm keeping up with. Marvel is killing it with PoC and femlae roles atm.

 

[Sandfox]

Was talking about the X-Men reboot with some friends and one of them was saying they wanted Excalibur to come back and I realized that I'm just straight up surprised it hasn't returned as a solo book for Faiza Hussain (Or a team up book with her and Black Knight or something)

Based on how Captain Britain and the Mighty Defenders sold I wouldn't expect that to happen any time soon.

 

[Slayven]

To add on with black representation:

And thats just the stuff I'm keeping up with. Marvel is killing it with PoC and femlae roles atm.

No fair putting the best books in one posts

 

[Sandfox]

No fair putting the best books in one posts

Yeah, every book listed there is really good lol.

 

[Slayven]

Yeah, every book listed there is really good lol.

From a pure societal point Sam Wilson is the best written book in decades

 

[Sandfox]

I said this in the Comics OT, but I want Marjorie Liu to write Iceman.

From a pure societal point Sam Wilson is the best written book in decades

Spencer's Cap run is amazing so far and if he keeps this up it should go down as one of the greats. It's already the definitive Sam Wilson story IMO.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I said this in the Comics OT, but I want Marjorie Liu to write Iceman.



Spencer's Cap run is amazing so far if he keeps this up it should go down as one of the greats. It's already the definitive Sam Wilson story IMO.

Spencer has had a run of great books that already place him as a writer worth following anyway.

 

[jurgen]

I said this in the Comics OT, but I want Marjorie Liu to write Iceman.



Spencer's Cap run is amazing so far and if he keeps this up it should go down as one of the greats. It's already the definitive Sam Wilson story IMO.

Which Iceman though? She did a really good job with adult Bobby in Astonishing but the adult character is such a clusterfuck now that a good chunk of her run is a moot point. The O5 should have been removed after Secret Wars.

And I agree on Spencer's Sam Wilson. His Steve Rogers is pretty weak beyond the Hydra twist though.

 

[The Silver]

Which Iceman though? She did a really good job with adult Bobby in Astonishing but the adult character is such a clusterfuck now that a good chunk of her run is a moot point. The O5 should have been removed after Secret Wars.

And I agree on Spencer's Sam Wilson. His Steve Rogers is pretty weak beyond the Hydra twist though.

woah hey Hydra Cap is fun as hell

 

[Frozenprince]

From a pure societal point Sam Wilson is the best written book in decades

Real talk. I have had a shitload of talks with a black comic buddy of mine over just how huge Sam Wilson is. He's gonna be a mega hit. A real true blue top flight black role model in a position of strength.

Shit is massive.

Also Power Man/Iron Fist remains the GOAT.

 

[Sandfox]

Which Iceman though? She did a really good job with adult Bobby in Astonishing but the adult character is such a clusterfuck now that a good chunk of her run is a moot point. The O5 should have been removed after Secret Wars.

And I agree on Spencer's Sam Wilson. His Steve Rogers is pretty weak beyond the Hydra twist though.

I actually think his Steve Rogers book has been insane in a good way. The story he's telling has a ton of layers that increase with each issue and now it's carrying over to the sister books. The books are different, but Sam Wilson is the better one IMO though.

For Iceman I think both versions have potential for good stories.

 

[Frozenprince]

I just can't believe, p using him as a minority for the box or not, that Iceman is going to go longer than 8, maybe he gets a full 12, maybe. But I doubt it lasts longer than that as a solo.

 

[BrightLightLava]

I just can't believe, p using him as a minority for the box or not, that Iceman is going to go longer than 8, maybe he gets a full 12, maybe. But I doubt it lasts longer than that as a solo.

I feel like the same will happen with America Chavez, but I'd love to be surprised.