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[Dineren]

QUICK

Ace Attorney games 64 bit?

Pretty sure it wasn't on my list of incompatible apps when I checked earlier this week.

 

[FinalAres]

This is overall a good move

I haven't actually purchased many iOS apps save for two games and...a Pomo timer...that's it Since 2010. Crazy. everything else I only downloaded free apps

Anyway this is a good thing overall. Will be painful for some people for a time but good in the end

Genuine question....why is it a good thing? A good thing that its exclusively 64-bit instead of backwards compatible?

 

[bemusedchunk]

Genuine question....why is it a good thing? A good thing that its exclusively 64-bit instead of backwards compatible?

simply, more bits.

 

[kiguel182]

It'll definitely be more impactful on MacOS. They still haven't created a suitable replacement for QuickTime 7 Pro, which is 32-bit, and its libraries power number programs, like MPEGStreamclip.

I'm a CS student and we use a bunch of open source stuff made by universities and stuff. I wonder how many will be updated since some barely work as is lol

Not that I plan of being in college by the time this happens but still. MacOS is a whole different situation.

 

[aristotle]

OK can someone please explain to me why so many people are actually supporting Apple on this front? When Sony removed BC on PS3, people routinely took the piss out of them. When MS fucks up, people call them to task. Why is it that Apple gets so much love for shitting on it's consumers?

Don't love the company because they don't love you. In fact right now there's a topic about this on the front page. Why does Apple get a pass suddenly?

 

[low-G]

Genuine question....why is it a good thing? A good thing that its exclusively 64-bit instead of backwards compatible?

They gain a tiny amount of performance out of the software by doing this, but the bigger gain will be when they can eliminate 32-bit support in the hardware.

So really, it just helps future hardware, completely anti-consumer.

I'm a CS student and we use a bunch of open source stuff made by universities and stuff. I wonder how many will be updated since some barely work as is lol

Not that I plan of being in college by the time this happens but still. MacOS is a whole different situation.

Your CS department relies on Macs? Wow.

 

[SmokedMeat]

OK can someone please explain to me why so many people are actually supporting Apple on this front? When Sony removed BC on PS3, people routinely took the piss out of them. When MS fucks up, people call them to task. Why is it that Apple gets so much love for shitting on it's consumers?

As sad as I am to be losing these apps, how can you not see it's a completely different scenario?
Sony removed BC completely across the board. Apple is moving onto a new 64-bit format and BC is still remaining provided developers update their apps. They've had what, five years to do this? It's a ridiculous amount of time for developers to get on board with this, and I blame them most for not caring to do so. Cave especially can go shove it given the premium prices for their games and lack of any updates.

 

[Lord Error]

Sony removed BC completely across the board. Apple is moving onto a new 64-bit format and BC is still remaining provided developers update their apps.

Actually, Sony has never removed BC from the machines that had the hardware support for it. They've removed it only from the new hardware where the PS2 chip was removed as a cost cutting measure. Then they ended up (kind of) adding it again through software emulation.

Apple is removing this support from the OS, even though the hardware hasn't changed a bit. It comes across a lot more like caprice than something that actually needed to be done at this point. A lot better comparison would be Sony's removal of Linux support from PS3, except in that case their excuse was apparently that was an open security hole.

It'll definitely be more impactful on MacOS. They still haven't created a suitable replacement for QuickTime 7 Pro, which is 32-bit, and its libraries power number programs, like MPEGStreamclip.

They'll be prying QT7Pro from my cold dead hands.

 

[Tain]

Apple is removing this support from the OS, even though the hardware hasn't changed a bit. It comes across a lot more like caprice than something that actually needed to be done at this point. A lot better comparison would be Sony's removal of Linux support from PS3, except in that case their excuse was apparently that was an open security hole.

Yeah, and this is what kills me. The hardware that supports it should continue to support it. All this talk of "moving forward" is fine given that the loss of functionality occurs when the user switches to new hardware.

 

[stan423321]

OK can someone please explain to me why so many people are actually supporting Apple on this front? When Sony removed BC on PS3, people routinely took the piss out of them. When MS fucks up, people call them to task. Why is it that Apple gets so much love for shitting on it's consumers?

Don't love the company because they don't love you. In fact right now there's a topic about this on the front page. Why does Apple get a pass suddenly?

There is a movement in computer science that I don't think has a formal name, so I'll refer to it as anti-conservatism. It's simple "you gotta keep up with the times" applied to computers and such devices.

While anti-conservatism has grown on the whole, I have noticed that it is weaker when discussing game consoles than iOS devices, and is somewhere in between when discussing consumer and home business Windows and Linux PCs. Here are potential reasons that come to mind:

• Console games cost money to buy that gamers buy regularly with their private funds, while iOS apps intended for consumers generally don't, or cost less. Consoles are on the other hand often cheaper than iOS devices. This creates higher bonds between users and software on game consoles.
• Similarly, console games are binged upon when compared to most iOS apps.
• iOS users are used to anti-conservatism being an applied ideology inside their apps and websites, with major options and features appearing and vanishing. This is a relatively rare occurence in console games.
• iOS users tend to use their devices primarily in contexts where they expect security (banking, secret mail, etc.), while console gamers don't. The intuitive thinking of computer system users implies very limited separation of program features, thus applying security arguments in potentially unrelated contexts sounds right to them.
• Console gamers tend to use one primary program at a time, which makes the idea of compatibility with one primary program slowing down entire system in noticeable scale sound hazy.

There is also the obvious element of people caring about games because this is NeoGAF. If this affair has a chance to blow up, it's not here, and probably not now.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Actually, Sony has never removed BC from the machines that had the hardware support for it. They've removed it only from the new hardware where the PS2 chip was removed as a cost cutting measure. Then they ended up (kind of) adding it again through software emulation.

Apple is removing this support from the OS, even though the hardware hasn't changed a bit. It comes across a lot more like caprice than something that actually needed to be done at this point. A lot better comparison would be Sony's removal of Linux support from PS3, except in that case their excuse was apparently that was an open security hole.

Sony put a stop to bc period. Apple has given these developers a chance to update so their games can continue to be enjoyed, and some have chosen not to bother. The two shouldn't be compared in any way.

 

[Dreamwriter]

Yeah, and this is what kills me. The hardware that supports it should continue to support it. All this talk of "moving forward" is fine given that the loss of functionality occurs when the user switches to new hardware.

Apple doesn’t want to have different levels of compatibility on different pieces of hardware. You buy an app on one of their phones or tablets, it works on all of them. Apple wants to limit it by OS, and I would guess that the iPhone 8 will be incapable of running 32-bit apps, so Apple is limiting it on the first OS the iPhone 8 will run.

 

[kiguel182]

They gain a tiny amount of performance out of the software by doing this, but the bigger gain will be when they can eliminate 32-bit support in the hardware.

So really, it just helps future hardware, completely anti-consumer.



Your CS department relies on Macs? Wow.

No, it's Linux based. But all software we use has Mac versions and most teachers use macs.

Macs are great because they use Unix and yeah, we are very Linux based.

 

[ZoltanXerxes]

People will always scream hyperbolic statements when something changes. Nothing to really worry about.

 

[Tain]

Apple doesn't want to have different levels of compatibility on different pieces of hardware. You buy an app on one of their phones or tablets, it works on all of them. Apple wants to limit it by OS, and I would guess that the iPhone 8 will be incapable of running 32-bit apps, so Apple is limiting it on the first OS the iPhone 8 will run.

I get that this is all cleaner on Apple's end, in the long run.

I just don't care about that as much as being able to use my 32-bit apps, and I can't imagine there would be any real consumer confusion going on assuming 32-bit apps are no longer sold in the store.

 

[Lord Error]

Sony put a stop to bc period. Apple has given these developers a chance to update so their games can continue to be enjoyed, and some have chosen not to bother. The two shouldn't be compared in any way.

Again, Sony didn't remove the compatibility from the hardware that supported it. If you have the launch PS3, you can play all the PS2 games on it, this very day. Apple can give all the advance warnings they want, it means nothing when the dev teams behinds tons of these games simply don't exist anymore. Hell, a bunch of these games have been flat out removed from the app store because the developer went under and stopped paying the yearly dev fee to apple.

 

[Costia]

I get that this is all cleaner on Apple's end, in the long run.

I just don't care about that as much as being able to use my 32-bit apps, and I can't imagine there would be any real consumer confusion going on assuming 32-bit apps are no longer sold in the store.

Just imagine the ad: "Buy the new iPhone, which can run less apps than your old one. Upgrade now!11!"

 

[synce]

Well here's one of the issues with a digital future.

 

[robotrock]

Well here's one of the issues with a digital future.

Your physical iOS games will be incompatible too

 

[RedSwirl]

One big difference from consoles: it's actually possible for iOS developers to patch old apps to be compatible with and even have new features on later OSs and hardware.

Imagine if it was actually possible for developers to go back and patch 360 games to run with enhanced features on Xbox One, or if devs could patch PS3 games to work on PS4. That's basically the future we're headed towards with incremental upgrades. I think that if the PS5 turns out to not be 100% bc with PS4, it'll be because of a new CPU that causes too many complications, but devs might have the option to patch old games to fix that.

 

[FyreWulff]

Just imagine the ad: "Buy the new iPhone, which can run less apps than your old one. Upgrade now!11!"

oh, you already know they're still going to count all the dead 32 bit apps in their total numbers at presentations

like how they keep quoting ipads and iphones in the numbers that can't even run the latest iOS.

 

[Aurizen]

So apparently Touch Arcade won't be updated because of the lack of funds....We would have to support their patreon.

 

[BigEmil]

What's the benefits of 64 bit app over 32 bit apps?

 

[V_Arnold]

I cannot believe that people are actually cheering for this.
This shifts the burden from a single actor (i.e. Apple) to developers porting their existing software to 64-bit only.

Its a shady move, it does NOT benefit the customer - only Apple.
So why cheer? If you play a good 32-bit game on your OHMYGODITS64BIT hardware, you do not lose anything. if the software does not need the extended memory space, what is the issue for YOU, the consumer?

Yeah, I know: nothing. Absolutely nothing. There is nothing to cheer for with this .

 

[Tain]

Yup. It sucks so much.

 

[cmChimera]

I cannot believe that people are actually cheering for this.
This shifts the burden from a single actor (i.e. Apple) to developers porting their existing software to 64-bit only.

Its a shady move, it does NOT benefit the customer - only Apple.
So why cheer? If you play a good 32-bit game on your OHMYGODITS64BIT hardware, you do not lose anything. if the software does not need the extended memory space, what is the issue for YOU, the consumer?

Yeah, I know: nothing. Absolutely nothing. There is nothing to cheer for with this .

Shady how? They've been warning about this for years, and developers either did or didn't update their apps.

And it's untrue that it doesn't benefit the consumer. iOS can benefit from not having 32 bit apps.

From Ars Technica:

On the hardware side, this could mean freeing up a small amount of space in a hypothetical A11 SoC for more CPU cores, larger CPU cores, or a better GPU or other features. This is the kind of thing that other SoC vendors would have a harder time doing—most SoCs in the Android world either use ARM’s Cortex CPU cores or designs substantially based on the Cortex cores. To maintain maximum compatibility and flexibility, it’s unlikely that ARM will ship anything without 32-bit support any time soon.

Even if this doesn’t happen, Apple can still achieve some streamlining on the software side, stuff that will also benefit phones with hardware support for 32-bit apps. With 32-bit support cut out, Apple will be able to rip out any remaining 32-bit code in iOS, as well as 32-bit software libraries and things that allow 32-bit apps to run within 64-bit iOS. This may save some small amount of storage space, though it may be used for new iOS 11 features and not passed on to users. It can also help with memory usage in a few cases, since iOS won’t ever need to load 32-bit libraries into memory (thus ejecting other apps or Safari tabs from RAM and slowing down load times when you’re switching between tabs or apps).

And from good forum post on Appleinsider:

First off, the main benefit of the 32-bit to 64-bit transition on ARM and x86 wasn't the additional address space. Both architectures had accumulated a lot of cruft over the years (x86 more than ARM). So in both cases, the transition to 64-bit was used as an opportunity to clean up this cruft. In both cases, code compiled for the new 64-bit mode ran faster than 32-bit code on the same CPU. That was the the main reason for Apple to introduce 64-bit support in the A7 and later. Faster code means that the CPU can go back to sleep faster, which means better battery life for mobile devices.

The reasoning behind why Apple wants to drop support for 32-bit apps is simple - resources on mobile devices are constrained. Loading a 32-bit app on a 64-bit device means loading in 32-bit versions of all the frameworks that the app uses. Normally when a framework is loaded, only one copy has to be in memory at a time since the memory is shared between all the processes that use that framework. Having the 32-bit version means that now the memory usage is doubled for any framework used in both modes. The biggest framework being UIKit, which powers the UI for all apps on iOS.

Add in the fact that 32-bit code runs slower and therefore uses battery up faster than 64-bit code, it becomes obvious why Apple wants to git rid of 32-bit code.

Once they get rid of 32-bit code, other minor benefits are enabled - their OS gets smaller because they don't have to include 32-bit frameworks. The apps get smaller for similar reasons. They can stop maintaining 32-bit support in their development tools, along with the QA load of testing 32-bit support. And they have an opportunity to flush out apps that literally haven't been updated in years from the store.

Frankly, if a developer cared about their app, they'd update it. But trying to say that Apple is just being shady or being anti-consumer is false. They're very clearly trying to make their devices and software better.

 

[Baron_Calamity]

QUICK

Ace Attorney games 64 bit?

This is my only real concern.

 

[TheEndOfItAll]

I cannot believe that people are actually cheering for this.
This shifts the burden from a single actor (i.e. Apple) to developers porting their existing software to 64-bit only.

Its a shady move, it does NOT benefit the customer - only Apple.
So why cheer? If you play a good 32-bit game on your OHMYGODITS64BIT hardware, you do not lose anything. if the software does not need the extended memory space, what is the issue for YOU, the consumer?

Yeah, I know: nothing. Absolutely nothing. There is nothing to cheer for with this .

Anytime you have to specifically code for and support older technology, it hurts the entire customer base because that means less development time on features that customers can use. I've seen devs get pulled off of important work when a defect is found in 20-year-old software because that one customer still pays out the nose for it and demands a fix. And every time that happens, that's lost man-hours on new feature builds. In fact, it's most likely that the reason they're doing this is because of new features specific to Apple that require 64-bit and will be used by all iOS users. I'm no Apple lover -- far from it, in fact -- but this is typically how it works. New tech goes in, old tech gets phased out or shut off. Apple likely isn't cheering for killing off old apps and is most likely dealing with a huge groundswell of support issues because of it.

In the end, it's developers losing out on new money if their apps break because they opt not to use the detailed instructions that Apple provided three years ago on how to convert apps to 64-bit.

 

[VincentMatts]

is there a date fir os11?

 

[Garou]

This is my only real concern.

Any app that had an update after June 2015 is 64Bit, so they should be safe.

 

[Tunesmith]

is there a date fir os11?

~ September 12th

 

[Garou]

~ September 12th

If the past is anything to go by, it will be September 20.

 

[Vashetti]

If the past is anything to go by, it will be September 20.

The Apple event is on the 12th, they'll release iOS 11 during it.

 

[cmChimera]

The Apple event is on the 12th, they'll release iOS 11 during it.

No they most likely won't. They'll release the GM to developers, and the public release will be the following week. This is the way it's happened forever.

 

[orborborb]

buy these quality exclusive 32 bit games on your extra iPad you will never update again before they disappear forever!

Warship Solitaire
FC Rocket
Harbor Master
Reiner Knizia's Labyrinth, Cluster Master, Lines of Gold, Through the Desert, etc
Lilt Line
Logic Maze
Sync Ball
Gravity Hook
Questlord
Doom 2 RPG
Nobynobyboy
Crystal Caliburn 2 Pinball
Cameltry

then there are the excellent Cave shmup ports
the Marathon trilogy ports
the Doom port
the Baldurs Gate port
the old Magic the Gathering campaigns

my favorite game music playing app, NoiseES
my favorite music-making app, NanoStudio

 

[VincentMatts]

~ September 12th

If the past is anything to go by, it will be September 20.

so soon, thx

 

[Marche90]

So, uh, for those of us stuck with an iPhone 5c, how will this impact us in the near future? Asking because I'm worried about losing all app support in a matter of days (like WhatsApp and the like).

And no, getting a newer one isn't an option in the near term. I need to wait until december to be able to get some extra cash to get a new phone, and iPhones are expensive here where I live.

 

[Vashetti]

No they most likely won't. They'll release the GM to developers, and the public release will be the following week. This is the way it's happened forever.

Oh my bad.

 

[cmChimera]

Oh my bad.

No worries, they've had public betas and such as of late, so it's always possible that things could change.

 

[Seth Enosh]

So, uh, for those of us stuck with an iPhone 5c, how will this impact us in the near future? Asking because I'm worried about losing all app support in a matter of days (like WhatsApp and the like).

And no, getting a newer one isn't an option in the near term. I need to wait until december to be able to get some extra cash to get a new phone, and iPhones are expensive here where I live.

Apps can be both 32 and 64bit. The store will send the 32 bit version to owners of the 5C and 64bit to newer owners.

I'd expect you'd slowly get less support but apps like WhatsApp that are used in poor countries will probably be the last to stop working.

 

[JaffeLion]

If the past is anything to go by, it will be September 20.

hence the ~

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Sony put a stop to bc period. Apple has given these developers a chance to update so their games can continue to be enjoyed, and some have chosen not to bother. The two shouldn't be compared in any way.

Funny, my PS2 still plays all PS2 games and my PS3 still plays all PS3 games.

Imagine if Sony released an update to the PS3 that made super early PS3 games stop working unless the developers updated their games?

 

[Shifty]

Genuine question....why is it a good thing? A good thing that its exclusively 64-bit instead of backwards compatible?

simply, more bits.

Blast Processing

 

[TetraGenesis]

Pouring one out for the Mirror's Edge mobile game from 2009 that I, genuinely, liked better than both console MEs. I still turn it on every once in a while for a few minutes even though it has long since lost the ability to save the game.

 

[Eusis]

Funny, my PS2 still plays all PS2 games and my PS3 still plays all PS3 games.

Imagine if Sony released an update to the PS3 that made super early PS3 games stop working unless the developers updated their games?

It'd probably only hit the slim models, or maybe even only the newest slims. You'd probably also have been able to play PS4 games on it but non-updated PS3 games get the axe.

I think I'll leave my iPad on iOS 10. Performance isn't super awesome and I'd like to be able to use it for legacy apps.

 

[RM8]

I'm so bitter there are so many games that never make it to Android... because I really want to go back to Android, but that would make me loss access to some of my favourite games

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

Infinity Blade (the first one) got updated the other day, so I officially no longer have any 32-bit apps.

Wonder what the final grand-total of un-updated apps will be.

 

[Audette]

Funny, my PS2 still plays all PS2 games and my PS3 still plays all PS3 games.

Imagine if Sony released an update to the PS3 that made super early PS3 games stop working unless the developers updated their games?

In order to make that comparison similar, sony's patch would have had to let the PS3 play PS4 games and give us/developers 5 years warning before releasing it. On top of that the Apple updates are usually optional allowing older incompatible hardware to keep working and having an App Store, where as the Sony example usually not so much.

Again, 5 years warning. 5 year warning that new hardware is going to be up to modern standards, and old phones would have the option of upgrading. I'm not a super fan or defender of Apple, it's just a lot of misunderstandings and hyperbole being tossed around.

That said, sucks for Touch Arcade. it's not theirs funds that prohibits them from updating the app, its the fact Apple doesn't want App Store curation Apps within the store. Which is understandable but kind of really sucks anyways cause Touch Arcade is great for games. Wish Apple would just buy those guys integrate them.

 

[samn]

So, uh, for those of us stuck with an iPhone 5c, how will this impact us in the near future? Asking because I'm worried about losing all app support in a matter of days (like WhatsApp and the like).

And no, getting a newer one isn't an option in the near term. I need to wait until december to be able to get some extra cash to get a new phone, and iPhones are expensive here where I live.

Stop using your iPhone 5c. It’s not going to get security updates.

 

[televator]

... So KOTOR won't work?

Will not update if true.