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[Wes]

I just saw an advert for detailed news coverage of the caucus on British TV to come. I've never seen that before and definetely didn't expect it basically because no one over here seems to understand the caucus system at all (me included!)

Strange amount of exposure over here.

 

[eznark]

Wait, eznark is a libertarian? Now it all makes sense.

Nope, not really. I vote with my wallet the vast majority of the time. I like to think of myself as a pragmatic libertarian, but in reality i'm a free market individualist...I thought I already laid that out??

 

[JayDubya]

Pinochet. Later we're going to have FREE MARKET VS. SCORCHED EARTH II: ELECTRIC BUGALOO when it's PINOCHET VS. SHERMAN: MARCH TO UNRESTRICTED SCORCHED EARTH MARKET TACTICS!

Not really all that free market, only grudgingly so and with help, but he knew what to do with your kind. Check the filename. =P

 

[topsyturvy]

Oh, that's easy: "Have you ever watched To Catch A Predator or anything on MTV in the last 12 months? If you answered yes, you CANNOT vote in this election."

why?

 

[ElectricBlue187]

that moral compass thing is handy, very cool tool

 

[eznark]

I don't get the way they organize these folks, really. The political compass seems to do it better.

Seems like the only criteria for social issues is gun control. Do you recognize the consitutuion? Yes? FAR RIGHT. Do you not, no? FAR LEFT.

Other than that, on what "social" issues are Guliani and the democrats THAT far apart on??

 

[thekad]

Seems like the only criteria for social issues is gun control. Do you recognize the consitutuion? Yes? FAR RIGHT. Do you not, no? FAR LEFT.

Other than that, on what "social" issues are Guliani and the democrats THAT far apart on??

I think that whole "Freedom is about authority" thing kind of hurt him in that regard.

 

[topsyturvy]

oh my god, i'm listening to conservative radio right now....brainwashing 101 at its finest. I can really see how someone with no political knowledge in iowa would go all out and vote conservative just because some fat guy told them to. I mean the constant hilary and obama bashing is NUTS.

 

[Triumph]

Not really all that free market, only grudgingly so and with help, but he knew what to do with your kind. Check the filename. =P

Jesus, General Sherman and I love you though. Keep in mind, sometimes love HURTS, tho.

 

[avatar299]

Hey Grucco, do America a favor and don't vote.

 

[eznark]

I think that whole "Freedom is about authority" thing kind of hurt him in that regard.

I figured they'd rate people on issues (abortion, gay rights, gun control...) not overarching ideas on freedoms afforded through democracy.

Good for them.

Quick question, has anyone here read The Myth of the Rational Voter?

 

[Gaborn]

I'm saying that libertarians argue for the devolution of government responsibility from national to local levels, but that's mostly because they think that will reduce government authority overall.

When local governments step in with smoking bans, zoning laws, extra labor and business regulations, etc, libbies don't support it in the name of self-government. And I don't expect them to, or say they should.

For libertarians, the value of state and municipal administration over federal administration is that it's a means towards a miniarchist end. That's all I'm saying.



That, and don't make me bring up the last time we discussed DC, and you had your insane idea about how it was never meant to have any residential districts.

I think you're right, but you don't understand WHY you're right. You're right that libertarians generally would rather see the authority to make decisions on issues like smoking bans etc on the state or local level, but then it does not follow that we must AGREE and ACQUIESCE with the decision the state or local government makes. Libertarians understand that when the federal government has the power to do something, the affect of whatever decision will have national implications. With state and local authorities making the decision it is generally far more likely that you're going to see differences rather than unanimity in enforcing different policies. It is much easier to get a local law changed than a state law, and it is much easier to get a state law changed than a federal law.

So the issue for us isn't the decision that is reached, as much as who has the power to make the decision, and THEN, when that decision is made do we agree with it on a personal level. Another way of looking at it, George W. Bush is my President. I also disagree with him on just about every issue, but he's still my President and I'd defend him in that capacity. My personal disagreements with Bush doesn't mean I don't recognize his authority, I simply disagree with him.

 

[eznark]

I'm voting. WOOT!

I think that is an automatic fail of the tests proposed earlier.

 

[tanod]

I think that is an automatic fail of the tests proposed earlier.

This isn't my first caucus. I've been a registered democrat for 7 years and proud of it.

Spoiler

Websters says it's a word.

and... ;_;

 

[eznark]

This isn't my first caucus. I've been a registered democrat for 7 years and proud of it.

Spoiler

Websters says it's a word.

and... ;_;

Do you just sit there and holler at each other "Obama is the coolest, come over to my corner" or what? It seems like it would be a cool experience, if nothing else.

 

[Dilbert]

Do you just sit there and holler at each other "Obama is the coolest, come over to my corner" or what? It seems like it would be a cool experience, if nothing else.

"Red rover, red rover, vote Clinton, it's over!"

 

[thefro]

I just saw an advert for detailed news coverage of the caucus on British TV to come. I've never seen that before and definetely didn't expect it basically because no one over here seems to understand the caucus system at all (me included!)

Strange amount of exposure over here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxESw0lY0CE

Watch this.

It makes more sense when you realize about 100 years ago, the party bosses used to decide who the nominee was with no voting by the general public. The caucus is somewhere in-between that and a real primary.

Essentially these caucus delegates elect delegates to go to the convention and vote for the Presidential nominee.

 

[Xdrive05]

JayDub, why the huge vertical spread for your results? You're all the way libertarian in some cases and all the way authoritarian in others?

 

[Particle Physicist]

i love how immigration seems to be such a huge issue in iowa. iowa??! its nowhere near a border!

:/

:.(

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I've been through a few caucuses when I lived in Iowa. Grew up there and only moved out a few years back. It is indeed an interesting process. Very involved and the people who turn out tend to be educated, well informed, and passionate about issues.

In my case, there were times when two groups from different candidates would try to join together to possibly over take the candidate with the most support. I can't say that I saw a lot of shouting, but there is some great debate at times, and comparing of difference candidates.

Also, there are plenty of people who show up who don't have a candidate of choice yet, but are wanting to learn which one fits their interests best. They can be swayed into any of the camps as well. Really a fun and interesting process.

i love how immigration seems to be such a huge issue in iowa. iowa??! its nowhere near a border!

:/

:.(

It doesn't matter if they are near a border or not. There are a lot of immigrant workers in Iowa, and a lot of immigrants are not from countries that we actually, you know, share a border with.

 

[Particle Physicist]

It doesn't matter if they are near a border or not. There are a lot of immigrant workers in Iowa, and a lot of immigrants are not from countries that we actually, you know, share a border with.

really? didnt know that.. why would they flock to iowa?

and what percentage of those workers are illegal? because there is absolutely nothing wrong with legal immigrants.. since.. you know. thats how the US was built.

 

[SRG01]

Posted yet?

The final Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby tracking poll showed Obama, running to become the country's first black president, holding a statistically insignificant four-point lead over Edwards at 31 percent to 27 percent.

Clinton, the former first lady who would if elected be the country's first female president, slipped to third place at 24 percent. The survey carries a statistical margin of error of plus or minus 3.3 percentage points.

Last updated 2:52EST though.

 

[JayDubya]

JayDub, why the huge vertical spread for your results? You're all the way libertarian in some cases and all the way authoritarian in others?

Beats me. My Political Compass score is (9, -5). Which is Economic L / R ; Social Auth / Lib on a range from -10 to 10.

The quiz didn't have many questions. Probably abortion and immigration vs. everything else. I had some neutral / no opinion choices too, because some of them were wrong either way.

"Should we spend more on treating addiction or keeping drugs off the street?"

Um...

 

[tanod]

Do you just sit there and holler at each other "Obama is the coolest, come over to my corner" or what? It seems like it would be a cool experience, if nothing else.

It's not really like that. It's pretty civil. Most people going on know who they want to support. The only real advocacy I've seen happens when some candidate don't reach the viability threshold.

"Red rover, red rover, vote Clinton, it's over!"

I'm totally using that.

I'm not gonna go into who I support but I have a strong inkling that Edwards has zero chance of winning Iowa. Turn out will be at record levels easily.

 

[KarishBHR]

is it true that Biden and RIchardson supporters were told to choose obama as their second choice?

 

[siamesedreamer]

I don't get the way they organize these folks, really. The political compass seems to do it better.

I'm just above Giuliani. Funny considering that I can't stand him.

 

[JayDubya]

I'm just above Giuliani. Funny considering that I can't stand him.

Yeah, I really don't think they place the candidates very well.

 

[Souldriver]

I'm just above Giuliani. Funny considering that I can't stand him.

My pensil is trying to make Obama a Hindu.

 

[tanod]

is it true that Biden and RIchardson supporters were told to choose obama as their second choice?

I follow this stuff pretty closely and unless something happened today, the only official statement from a candidate was Kucinich urging his supporters to go to Obama.

 

[Prospero]

is it true that Biden and RIchardson supporters were told to choose obama as their second choice?

Not exactly.

Obama will get Richardson's second-choice votes.

 

[eznark]

I follow this stuff pretty closely and unless something happened today, the only official statement from a candidate was Kucinich urging his supporters to go to Obama.

4 more people for Obama

 

[Wes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxESw0lY0CE

Watch this.

Ahhhh ok, that made things a bit clearer, ta.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

really? didnt know that.. why would they flock to iowa?

and what percentage of those workers are illegal? because there is absolutely nothing wrong with legal immigrants.. since.. you know. thats how the US was built.

No clue how many workers are illegals, although when I was living there, the meat packing plants were getting raided on a regular basis for having illegal Mexican workers.

I do know that there were a lot of Eastern Europeans that were immigrating to Iowa as the weather was much like what they were use to back home. I never heard of many of them being illegals however.

A few years back, there was a big debate raging about giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens through, and people were pretty passionate about it, one way or another. Mostly against it though.

 

[siamesedreamer]

I follow this stuff pretty closely and unless something happened today, the only official statement from a candidate was Kucinich urging his supporters to go to Obama.

All four of them.

Edit: Damn, beaten...

 

[Gaborn]

I think it'll go Huckabee, Paul, Romney for the Republicans, and Obama, Edwards/Clinton (with those two incredibly close, I give Edwards a slight edge though so I put his name first).

I think the real story here is how the media is completely and totally ignoring Ron Paul as much as humanly possible despite his organization and cash. I think that he's going to get a surprising percentage of young/first time voters and I suspect he'll get some crossover from independents and Democrats who are more likely to be opposed to the War in Iraq. Remember that the Republicans are a VERY small percentage of the state so a slight shift could have a major effect.

For the Democrats I suspect most of the minor candidate's "second choices" will be Obama rather than Hillary. Hillary is such a well known phenomenon with such a national presence I suspect many of Iowa's democrats are either for her, or definitely going with Obama if they can't have their first choice candidate. I think with Edwards his popularity is mainly due to his constant ground presence in Iowa since the 2004 election, Iowa loves the door to door retail politics of these candidates.

 

[tanod]

Not exactly.

Obama will get Richardson's second-choice votes.

Regardless of what candidate is their first choice, the majority of people at these caucuses aren't going to blindly follow their candidate's advice as to who their second choice should be. It just doesn't work that way.

If Ron Paul is depending on the youth vote, especially young Republicans, to turn out, he's completely DOA.

 

[thefro]

I think in the entrance poll Ron Paul will be 3rd, but I forgot that the 2nd choice voters will go to McCain over Ron Paul. So I think Paul will be 4th.

 

[ToxicAdam]

All of you Ron Paul supporters moaning about his lack of attention need to rethink your gripe. The greatest campaign killer is EXPECTATION. Once a campaign begins to have certain expectations of how things will go .. there is nowhere else to go except for down. It's what did Dean in, in 2004. He had a respectable showing in 2004's campaign, but the expectation (or projection) had him much higher.

So, for one thing, you should hope that the media completely ignores this campaign and as the double digits roll in, the media will come around and call the campaign a success.

 

[ToxicAdam]

i love how immigration seems to be such a huge issue in iowa. iowa??! its nowhere near a border!

:/

:.(

Who do you think works as farmhands and in meatpacking plants?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060402/NEWS09/604020379

 

[Particle Physicist]

Who do you think works as farmhands and in meatpacking plants?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060402/NEWS09/604020379

whats the estimated percentage of illegal immigrants in iowa?

 

[Triumph]

I think in the entrance poll Ron Paul will be 3rd, but I forgot that the 2nd choice voters will go to McCain over Ron Paul. So I think Paul will be 4th.

Except the Republicans don't caucus that way, just a straight vote.

 

[ToxicAdam]

whats the estimated percentage of illegal immigrants in iowa?

They really have no idea, that's why some are proposing that they give them driving licenses.

http://state29.blogspot.com/2006/12/tom-vilsack-wants-to-give-illegal.html

 

[Xdrive05]

Yeah, I really don't think they place the candidates very well.

Certainly. For instance, why did they put Huckabee that far to the right? Come on now.

 

[siamesedreamer]

MSNBC is streaming live for those at work, etc.

 

[Shawnwhann]

Thx, siamesedreamer. Leaving home where I spent lunch was hard because I was pretty glued to my television set watching the latest developments.

 

[Diablos]

EDIT: Polling data - http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/ia/iowa_democratic_caucus-208.html

 

[YakiSOBA]

Question: Is there a caucus for every state in the USA?

ps. (I Am Le Canadian)

 

[PhoenixDark]

As of 5:30-ish: Obama 31%, Edwards 27%, Clinton 24%

Clinton in last place, who would've thought

Where did you get this info honeybuns?

 

[Amir0x]

Go Obama!

 

[Diablos]

Where did you get this info honeybuns?

Disregard that, I don't think it was accurate.

edit - Actually it is. (Zogby)