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Is Banjo-Tooie worth getting for the XBLA?

I've played Banjo-Kazooie for the N64 and it's really fun. For some reason I never got Banjo-Tooie, but was thinking about it the other day. It's surprisingly pricy on XBLA (Xbox 360) for such an old game, and I'm not sure how good the game or the port itself is. Any thoughts? Is it worth picking up?
 
It's definitely worth it as the framerate of the N64 version hasn't aged well on some areas like Cloud Cuckoo Land and it's a very good sequel that builds on Kazooie and fixes a lot of problems with Kazooie as well.
 
Its fantastic, but its loooooooonnnnnngggggggg, much more bigger x longer than banjo kazooie
I just wish they were ported to Xbox one :(
I'd buy both again
 

Rich!

Member
Oh yeah, even by modern standards the game is absolutely shittingly massive. It's huge, and every level is linked together. You can travel from Mayahem Temple to Gutter Gulch Mine via an underwater passage, hop on a train, travel to the cliffside and journey through Jolly Roger Bay to atlantis, which is miles below everything else.

Its absolutely insane. Bear in mind that each world is at minimum the size of the entire Grunty's lair in Banjo Kazooie. And then you have the entirety of Isle o Hags surrounding that too.
 

mrhej

Member
Since Stop n Swap actually works on 360 you won't get any of the secrets unless you played Banjo Kazooie on xbox. Still a great game though.
 

NJD316

Neo Member
Yeah I'd go for it. Like other people have said, it's a crazy big game but it still holds all the things that made the original fun.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Banjo-Tooie is an exercise in "bigger isn't always better". Banjo-Kazooie was as perfect as it comes in terms of size and design, while Banjo-Tooie sees the collecting expanded to much bigger worlds, levels that cross between one another and so forth, so much to the point that you can easily get overwhelmed by it, and traveling back and forth becomes a real tedium. I'd go as far to claim it's worse than DK64 in terms of pointless scale (although I like that game). Grunty Industries in particular is one of the worst levels Rare has ever made.

It's not as good as Banjo-Kazooie, which was a much more balanced game with self-contained design. However, the sheer scale of Banjo-Tooie is incredibly impressive and it's a true sequel in every sense of the word. It does do a lot of things right such as having a better narrative, better world-building, more varied levels, expanded move sets and so forth. Each world also has it's own boss which was something that felt a bit missing in its predecessor. It's still a great game and I'd say if you're a fan of Banjo-Kazooie it's definitely worth playing. The 360 version is also much better optimized obviously so there's not as much chugging during some of the more intensive moments, which makes the experience a much smoother one. Although ironically the game's intro goes completely out of sync because of that as it was designed around the N64 struggling with some of the graphical elements.
 
If nothing else, Tooie is a lot better than DK 64 by having more to actually do instead of just lots of repeating the same things on different characters.

If you liked the original B-K, Tooie is worth getting. It's like $10 anyway right?
 
Thanks for all the replies!

Since Stop n Swap actually works on 360 you won't get any of the secrets unless you played Banjo Kazooie on xbox. Still a great game though.

Yeah I've heard a bunch about Stop n Swap but I don't know what those secrets actually are. Do I miss out on a lot by not having played Kazooie on Xbox? Or are those just some minor bonuses?

Banjo-Tooie is an exercise in "bigger isn't always better". Banjo-Kazooie was as perfect as it comes in terms of size and design, while Banjo-Tooie sees the collecting expanded to much bigger worlds, levels that cross between one another and so forth, so much to the point that you can easily get overwhelmed by it, and traveling back and forth becomes a real tedium. I'd go as far to claim it's worse than DK64 in terms of pointless scale (although I like that game). Grunty Industries in particular is one of the worst levels Rare has ever made.

It's not as good as Banjo-Kazooie, which was a much more balanced game with self-contained design. However, the sheer scale of Banjo-Tooie is incredibly impressive and it's a true sequel in every sense of the word. It does do a lot of things right such as having a better narrative, better world-building, more varied levels, expanded move sets and so forth. It's still a great game and I'd say if you're a fan of Banjo-Kazooie it's definitely worth playing.

But does the world ever feel empty and do you feel like there are moments where you are just walking from point A to point B with nothing happening? I kind of like the overwhelming feeling but I'm not a huge fan of having to walk through huge, empty boring pieces of land alá Assassin's Creed 3. When I hear "tedium" and "pointless scale" a warning clock rings, but I think this is the type of world I'd enjoy.

If nothing else, Tooie is a lot better than DK 64 by having more to actually do instead of just lots of repeating the same things on different characters.

If you liked the original B-K, Tooie is worth getting. It's like $10 anyway right?

It's almost twice of that in Sweden ;b So it's even more expensive that Nintendo's rerealeases of Wii games on Wii U. Still not bad though for a game that seems to have plenty of content.
 

mrhej

Member
Yeah I've heard a bunch about Stop n Swap but I don't know what those secrets actually are. Do I miss out on a lot by not having played Kazooie on Xbox? Or are those just some minor bonuses?

They are minor bonuses like a bonus move and a transformation for Kazooie but you can still beat the game without them easily.
 

NotLiquid

Member
But does the world ever feel empty and do you feel like there are moments where you are just walking from point A to point B with nothing happening? I kind of like the overwhelming feeling but I'm not a huge fan of having to walk through huge, empty boring pieces of land alá Assassin's Creed 3. When I hear "tedium" and "pointless scale" a warning clock rings, but I think this is the type of world I'd enjoy.

Nah, there's most certainly always some sort of goal in mind when you play the levels of Banjo-Tooie. The problem is just the distance it takes to actually get to those goals. There's a lot of back-and-forths when it comes to obtaining jiggies and doing quests. Each level is roughly four times the size of an average level in Banjo-Kazooie, and because of that they had to place warp pads and silos in order to jump between pivotal areas. Unlike Banjo-Kazooie, you also don't unlock levels by finding paintings at areas that relate to the levels, as all the unlocks are done at the start of the main hub world, which is weird since the hub world is just that much bigger and it just means more traveling.

As an example of some of the tedious ways the game has you exploring levels, one of the levels in the game can't actually be accessed even after you unlock it unless you go to a completely different level that connects to it and open it up from the inside, as the exterior will otherwise just lock you out of it. There's generally a lot of times you have to do something in one level that will affect another level.

Again; its Banjo-Kazooie but bigger. It's great stuff, you'll probably like it, but it can get really drawn out at times.
 

SparkTR

Member
Apparently there's some issues that come with the increased framerate of the XBL version (the original runs at like 15fps at times), but nothing gamebreaking.
 

Persona7

Banned
If nothing else, Tooie is a lot better than DK 64 by having more to actually do instead of just lots of repeating the same things on different characters.

If you liked the original B-K, Tooie is worth getting. It's like $10 anyway right?

I want to say $14.99 in NA. I can't check right now.
 

Rich!

Member
Apparently there's some issues that come with the increased framerate of the XBL version (the original runs at like 15fps at times), but nothing gamebreaking.

15fps? It was 20fps max, and dipped to 6fps in hailfire peaks.

PAL was worse.
 

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Absolutely, they were both great ports IIRC. It actually helped ease the crushing disappointment of Nuts & Bolts.
 

Mytherin

Neo Member
Banjo Tooie is a fantastic sequel to an amazing game, but it is different. In Banjo Kazooie everything is kept quite simple, you learn a few abilities but it's nothing overwhelming, but in Banjo Tooie you basically start out with all the abilities you've learned in Banjo Kazooie and then learn a whole bunch more. The levels are bigger and a lot of new mechanics are introduced, including first person shooting sections. There's also a lot of different mini-games, and quite a bit of backtracking through the levels to collect everything.

I personally loved it but I can see why people might dislike it, it took a relatively simple collectathon in Banjo Kazooie and added a ton of new abilities/content/backtracking/minigames and a lot bigger and more complex worlds, and as a result it's not nearly as simple anymore.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Apparently there's some issues that come with the increased framerate of the XBL version (the original runs at like 15fps at times), but nothing gamebreaking.

It's only really the cutscenes. The extensive opening cinematic is completely out of sync due to the opening score being one whole piece and being designed around the N64's framerate, making it kind of awkward when certain parts of the score doesn't fit the current scenario.
 

Harmen

Member
In my memory this is a fantastic game, have not played it for like 10 years or so though. Thought it was the best collectathon back in the day.
 
Alright, thanks for all the replies. Most of the responses are definitely positive, but a few things are turning me off such as the perhaps too-big scale and some potentially gimmicky features/abilities. I'm going to give it some thought but I think I'm going to buy it.
 

Durock

Member
Alright, thanks for all the replies. Most of the responses are definitely positive, but a few things are turning me off such as the perhaps too-big scale and some potentially gimmicky features/abilities. I'm going to give it some thought but I think I'm going to buy it.

Buy it. It is definitely very big in comparison to its predecessor, yet it's still very much Banjo-Kazooie. It's more challenging and just as humerous as the first. Maybe you won't like it as mich as the original, but I highly doubt you'll be disappointed.

Plus, it has local multiplayer. The FPS games are a blast to play with friends. Think Goldeneye/Perfect Dark, only you're using eggs instead of bullets.
 
Its great. Like i'd others I would agree its perhaps more bloated than it needs to be, which is why I prefer part 1. Still an amazing game, the addition of bosses for each world was a nice touch (I love Weldar in Grunty Industries).
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
YES. Still holds up. Fantastic game.
 
Short answer: yes.

Long answer:
fuck
yes.

Best 3D platformer on the 360 right next grip the first one. I'm thinking about replaying it since it was so fun.
 

Stopdoor

Member
The tedium really just comes from splitting up Banjo-Kazooie for puzzles and switching to Mumbo because that involves a lot of back and forth to switch back, but the good far outweighs the bad. Stellar game.

Someone else mentioned it, it's best to watch the opening cutscene on youtube or something because the opening scene goes on for so long but is sped up due to better performance, which causes the music to get out of sync. It's a great opening so you wouldn't want watch it with that error.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Much as a part of me hates to say it, the game just isn't good, much as I loved it way back when. The biggest issue I'd say is not that it's too big, but too flat. Outside of a handful of choice segments, it's just not a platformer anymore, it's a large scale fetch quest with a ton of similar minigames and awful FPS segments (which may have been fine back in the day, but they've aged terribly and just don't feel good nowadays). The minigames are almost all a variant on "shoot/hit these things, red is one point, green is three, blue is five" (apologies if I mixed up the colors), and they're of varying quality. I'd argue more of the transformations feel like a handicap than a bonus (the washing machine in particular is awful to use). The dragons are at least okay as far as bosses go, but most of the rest are pretty bad, with the one from the circus in particular being incredibly awful. And hell, people say people hate on it for being more of a collectathon... but it's actually less of one, as there's note bundles, so you actually have less things to find in the noticeably larger levels. Most of the moveset added is also more pointless keys than actual expansion of the moves (IE the types of eggs, the "upgraded" drill move, all stuff that just deal with explicate obstacles more than anything else). And the splitting mechanic could be neat... but they lock all the moves so you have to slowly build them up, so it doesn't feel good splitting up till late game, you just feel kind of crippled. And Mumbo... my god. Any time you have to use him it's just sloooooooow excess walking, that if I recall correctly you actually end up having to do more than once in at least one level.

And despite having said all that, I feel like I'm STILL missing some issues my friends and I ran into when playing through the game (we all came away hating it after having loved it as kids). That said, it actually does do better on humor than the first game, and has some great moments in that regard at least. But yeah, it's unfortunately just not a good game, I'd say. If you really want to maybe give it a try and you could get some fun out of it, I'd just say at least don't go in with super high expectations.
 

Sciz

Member
TBut does the world ever feel empty and do you feel like there are moments where you are just walking from point A to point B with nothing happening? I kind of like the overwhelming feeling but I'm not a huge fan of having to walk through huge, empty boring pieces of land alá Assassin's Creed 3. When I hear "tedium" and "pointless scale" a warning clock rings, but I think this is the type of world I'd enjoy.
All the time. Even the first level is mind-numbingly tedious, and it never really gets better.
 

DVG

Member
YES! Get it. I agree with what people are saying though. The game is a bit too big and it can actually be a little overwhelming when you enter a level. But honestly TO ME this game is still a masterpiece only behind the original. Do yourself a favor and get it. Especially if you enjoyed the first one. One of my favorite sequels ever
 

MagnesD3

Member
Yes its one of the best games ever made. Arguably the best platformer if the original hadn't set the bar so high. Its a fantastic sequel.
 

maxcriden

Member
Better than DK64, but much worse than BK. Lots of exploration but not a whole heck of a lot else. BK I think is better in pretty much every way. But I should mention I'm not typically huge on open-world games, and as far as 3D platformers go I think this really resembles one.
 

Sydle

Member
You'll probably enjoy it since you liked the original. It's a good game and a great port, but I'll echo others here that the game can be overwhelming.
 
In my opinion Toole is trash. It's too big for its own good and often makes you do things over and over again to pad out the experience. Once you get to Grunt Industries, shit hits the fan. You'll find yourself in an area as Banjo, only to find a switch you're only able to activate as Mumbo. Switch to Mumbo, but then you forget how to get to that area. There's no map and the level design is convoluted and not memorable so you give up and cry.

At least that was my experience with it. :( I loved it as a kid, I wished my adult perspective didn't make me hate it!
 

sear

Banned
Banjo-Tooie is an incredible game. Its level design is extremely varied and creative, and it has a lot of personality. Kazooie was great, too, but very much in the "Super Mario 64 clone" vein. Tooie largely fixes that by going pretty much above and beyond what any other platformer was doing at the time. I will echo thoughts about it being a very big game, but I don't think that makes it worse - you just have to put your thinking cap on sometimes in how to get from point A to B.

I remember the first time I saw the first-person shooter levels. Or a huge dinosaur so large you can only see its foot. Or that one huge coastal town and beach where most of the level is actually underwater. Or that first time I went directly from one level to another. Or when I had to go back and forth to solve puzzles across multiple levels.

If you like that style of character 3D platformer then it's a complete no-brainer. Probably the height of the genre.
 

clav

Member
Depends.

If you have a backlog, I would say no since after you a play a few hours of Banjo Tooie, you're going to say, this game is going to take forever to finish.

If you just want to play Banjo for the next couple of months, then go for it.
 
Much as a part of me hates to say it, the game just isn't good, much as I loved it way back when...


This is all really on point. I was never a huge fan of BK (never played all the way through), but enjoyed it when it came out, still liked it years later after picking it back up, and thought BT would be a safe and better choice since I already played a lot of BK.

Everything you say here is sadly true. Good luck to anyone who stops playing this for a while and forgets what collectables they were looking for at a given moment.
 
I always thought BK was better, mostly because it's pretty straight forward. Tooie has a lot of backtracking, which I don't necessarily like. And some levels are much bigger and more grand than in BK, but also a bit more confusing because of certain things you'll eventually have to backtrack to. It's still a great game and was fun, but I feel not nearly as good as the original.

The XBLA version is an excellent port. Framerate is sooo goood now. The only bad thing can be seen in the beginning of the game's cutscene. The music is queued up for the lag from the N64 version, but since this doesn't have the problem, the music is very, very off.
 
The port is awesome. My friend and I around a month ago started playing Tooie from start to finish, I played on the 360 while he played the N64. The frame drop in the N64 is pretty awful, but the 360 was super smooth.

The game however... is tedious as all hell at points. Kazooie is way better IMO, but Tooie is definitely worth a shot.
 
You missed the Banjo Bundle they had a few months back, sadly. But from what I've played (still replaying the first as well), it looks and runs well.
 
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