theusedversion
Member
I was just replying to his comment about dna deterioration.
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Is Cryonics (frozen after death) legit?
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I was just replying to his comment about dna deterioration.
i_am_ben
running_here_and_there
I laughed
canoli2006
Member
Bomber Bob
Banned
nanomachines will
Honestly, why would future generations even want to bring all those frozen people back to life? Even if they find a way to reverse the process, it wouldn't exactly be appealing to have thousands of people walking the streets who don't know anything about "modern life" and would likely need to receive money from
the governments to survive.
the governments to survive.
should i warn my grandkids about richard nixons head?
Of course they won't.
SolidusDave
Member
I regularly freeze down various human cells to later thaw them for experiments.
Works really well, most cells survive even after years of storage.
That's how we store e.g. mouse embryos for later implantation as well.
The difference to this cryonic stuff is that the cells are alive and that you prevent ice crystals by using DMSO and a gradual freezing process.
Sure, this is sufficient for making clones of you (why would anyone want your DNA over engineering a perfect one though) but the goal of these people is to have their consciousness revived in the future. I doubt that can ever work unless they allow to safely freeze living brains (and for thick tissues it is tough to have the DMSO diffuse everywhere before having toxic effects on the outer cell layers).
Works really well, most cells survive even after years of storage.
That's how we store e.g. mouse embryos for later implantation as well.
The difference to this cryonic stuff is that the cells are alive and that you prevent ice crystals by using DMSO and a gradual freezing process.
Sure, this is sufficient for making clones of you (why would anyone want your DNA over engineering a perfect one though) but the goal of these people is to have their consciousness revived in the future. I doubt that can ever work unless they allow to safely freeze living brains (and for thick tissues it is tough to have the DMSO diffuse everywhere before having toxic effects on the outer cell layers).
theusedversion
Member
For the science of it. Perhaps the technology would be useful when traveling to different solar systems or galaxies. People could go into cryosleep and be revived when they reach the destination. Just a thought.
Beelzebufo
Banned
I'm not sure how they'd take the hard copy and insert it into every single one of your cells to fix things.
And OP, cryonics is just a fancy kind of euthanasia. The person is dead, and when you unfreeze them they'll be a useless bowl of mush, not even a fully dead person anymore. The only difference between this and having your loved ones hang themselves is that this way you can't even have a funeral with a viewing or a burial, and you may have to pay more to keep the body frozen in some warehouse?
LoveCake
Member
Who wouldn't want to wake up in the future!?
I have thought about it quite a lot, i would do it, going to look into it when i'm older.
The only thing that i would like to find out is, would it be better to be frozen before you die of whatever it is you are dying off, rather than being frozen afterwards?
I have thought about it quite a lot, i would do it, going to look into it when i'm older.
The only thing that i would like to find out is, would it be better to be frozen before you die of whatever it is you are dying off, rather than being frozen afterwards?
AdventureRacing
Member
The technology you would use to achieve this would be every different to how they're freezing people today. Right now they're basically just killing you and i don't think there is any possible technologies that would allow them to recover your consciousness, not now or ever.
Do i think it's possible? Maybe but it will be done in a completely different way and i doubt it's something that is coming in the near future.
If people are stupid enough to pay for this stuff out of their own free will, then there will be a market for it.
But to blindly expect modern medicine to be able to raise the fucking dead in the future just because you saw Futurama once is hilarious to me. That's not how the body works.
It would be more useful to get stem cells preserved or something, get your entire DNA sequence on a USB stick somewhere in a vault. Because while medicine isn't raising the dead anytime soon, regenerative medicine is making big strides right now.
Basically, grow a new body instead of freezing your current one.
But to blindly expect modern medicine to be able to raise the fucking dead in the future just because you saw Futurama once is hilarious to me. That's not how the body works.
It would be more useful to get stem cells preserved or something, get your entire DNA sequence on a USB stick somewhere in a vault. Because while medicine isn't raising the dead anytime soon, regenerative medicine is making big strides right now.
Basically, grow a new body instead of freezing your current one.
Marky Mark
Member
If this got to the same pricepoint as whatever the current cheapest way to dispose of my rotting corpse I would probably do it, just in case. But no way I'm paying USD$35K of my family's money for this.
Beelzebufo
Banned
You only have to do that with a handful of people though, and they'd probably do it to freshly frozen people (who were frozen through a process that doesn't straight kill you).
boiled goose
good with gravy
while interesting the whole idea is somewhat pointless to me.
self awareness and the illusion of the persistent and continuing sense of self is mind blowing but ultimately just an illusion.
self awareness and the illusion of the persistent and continuing sense of self is mind blowing but ultimately just an illusion.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
A clone wouldn't be you. It wouldn't have your memories.
Worse, it wouldn't be the same as you even ignoring that (and the being a baby part) because it wouldn't gestate in the same mother. Even if you did grow it in your mom it STILL wouldn't be the same because conditions in the uterus are different for every additional pregnancy.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
He's a zombie doe.
The point is that they revive you whenever the technology arrives. "Likelihood" isn't relevant. You're dead, so it's not like you're in any hurry.
So it could be thousands of years in the future. You're dead. I don't see why it's a scam if they keep their promise of keeping your corpse frozen and stored.
So it could be thousands of years in the future. You're dead. I don't see why it's a scam if they keep their promise of keeping your corpse frozen and stored.
maquiladora
Member
I think the more realistic future development will be the ability to "download" our brains to a computer where you can then live on inside a simulated brain.
Sign me up.
Sign me up.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Read this issue of Transmetropolitan
Is it like that episode of South Park where the guy is frozen in 1996 and thawed out at the beginning of 1999?
Beelzebufo
Banned
Eventually though, there's barely any corpse to keep frozen. It's just like a protein jelly much forced into a person-sized mold. I don't think they're going to keep you alive long enough for people to learn how to reorganize slop into a fully functional human being with the original memories based on nothing other than what the body looked like frozen, and even if they did I don't think the energy involved would be low enough for anyone to consider doing it.
We're closer to ramping up the longevity escape velocity to an escape trajectory (i.e. functional immortality), than we are to making cryogenics work.
I mean aside from the whole freezing thing destroying your cells and your brain... it's just the whole prolonged and utter deactivation of the brain... that would kinda remove your identity as an individual. Think about the problem of cloning/teleportation without destroying yourself. It'd kinda be like that; the future you might inherent your matter configuration; including your memories... but while he'd be there, the you of your perspective would still be... gone.
The upside is... the future condition in which such a corpse would be or could be revived... would be very high tech indeed. Like, they'd bring people back to life just for kicks post scarcity culture.
The most practical use of the technology now... is simply to give a slim tether of hope for future possibilities. It's kinda like a lotto ticket in that sense.
I mean aside from the whole freezing thing destroying your cells and your brain... it's just the whole prolonged and utter deactivation of the brain... that would kinda remove your identity as an individual. Think about the problem of cloning/teleportation without destroying yourself. It'd kinda be like that; the future you might inherent your matter configuration; including your memories... but while he'd be there, the you of your perspective would still be... gone.
The upside is... the future condition in which such a corpse would be or could be revived... would be very high tech indeed. Like, they'd bring people back to life just for kicks post scarcity culture.
The most practical use of the technology now... is simply to give a slim tether of hope for future possibilities. It's kinda like a lotto ticket in that sense.
The Spoony Hou
Member
It's true as much as any religious belief: you just blindly believe it will happen because someone told you so.
The kind that doesn't live only on the basis of social relationships?
It certainly doesn't mean that such people can't have meaningful social relationships; only that they can continue existing without, or perhaps even capable of generating new ones.
Aren't there people that have been frozen for this reason for decades already? Still waiting... supposedly? I wonder about the various statistics. How many are frozen now? Is it on the decline; how many get frozen on a given year? Are there any cases where someone is frozen and have to become unfrozen for any reason (facilities fail, money dries up, etc.)
Would make a fascinating documentary.
Would make a fascinating documentary.
theusedversion
Member
Beelzebufo
Banned
As I pointed out, it doesn't work in that context either.
theusedversion
Member
But we weren't talking about cells. We were talking about digital data. Mind downloading. At least, I thought we were.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Nah, we were talking about how DNA becomes hopelessly degraded over time. Your body needs DNA everywhere, keeping a hard copy doesn't do anything unless you can somehow put it back everywhere. I don't see what DNA would have to do with the mind anyway.
I would be curious to see exactly how the future Earth would look like, how far we've progressed as a species, etc. Maybe I can go to my great great great great great great grandson/nephew for help.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
What if we plastic wrap ourselves before freezing? It works for bread.
theusedversion
Member
Should the title have been "Are Cryonics legit?" It's bothering me. "Is" sounds kind of weird.
When something is frozen the process weakens or destroys some of the tissue. When it's thawed, it's not the same as before. For human organs, especially something as sophisticated and intricate as the brain it would be disastrous. Think of strawberries that have been frozen and thawed, or even soft animal tissue.
What cryogenics is betting on is that in far future mankind will have the technology to return the tissue to its original state. And in many cases either migrate consciousness to some other "host" - which is why many opt to freeze their head only, or head and spine.
Personally I think it's working on many assumptions that no good science supports. Of course I'm no scientist with advanced knowledge and experience in any discipline related, but I've read enough from those who are to have this opinion.
What cryogenics is betting on is that in far future mankind will have the technology to return the tissue to its original state. And in many cases either migrate consciousness to some other "host" - which is why many opt to freeze their head only, or head and spine.
Personally I think it's working on many assumptions that no good science supports. Of course I'm no scientist with advanced knowledge and experience in any discipline related, but I've read enough from those who are to have this opinion.
you mean the one being stored in an actual refrigerator freezer? On top of cans of cat food?
theusedversion
Member
You are still considered dead. I always wonder what happens if/when the cryo companies bust.
MacH1nation
Member
Honestly, it's probably more likely science will be able to clone your body with any genetic issues sorted out, artificially age it, and transfer your consciousness, rather than using the energy to keep your old meat frozen and somehow viable for defrost, then going in and fixing your ailment and bringing you back. But even in the eventuality of the clone scenario, you wouldn't experience your new younger life in the future, the clone would, so you'd still die.
We already can. People are revived from being legally dead. If a person is frozen so that their nervous system doesn't degrade at all, it might be possible to eventually revive them in the future.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
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