SomedayTheFire
Member
I would assume every top level athlete in most sports are taking something. I've come to terms and just assume everyone is doing it.
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Is it likely that Usain Bolt is doping?
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LostCaress
Member
Yeah, sadly almost everyone is doping.
To put that 5 meters in context, it's two average strides for Bolt (since during the start and drive phases runners take a higher number of short strides before reaching full pace and stride length during the rest of the race, Bolts maximum stride is probably far longer)
What's interesting about Bolt is that his comparatively long stride allows him to run the race in fewer steps and at lower step frequency which means it's comparatively less effort (although the Bolt has to exert more power per stride than your average sprinter due to his size and his drag; the drag being one of the reasons most sprinters are relatively short and squat)/
Betta Lines
Member
I don't believe everyone is doing it. Some people are just freakishly strong/fast/skilled. I can understand that many are less gifted, and will use drugs to reach the same level. Jess Ennis is an interesting example. Her character, and having an incredible all-round ability in many disciplines makes it at least feasible that her success is entirely clean. It could all be for show of course, but I'd like to think she has done it through hard work and natural talent.
A sprinter, on the other hand, seems a more likely candidate for taking drugs to get the edge in such a specific discipline. Same goes for endurance runners and indeed any sport where endurance is the critical factor, e.g. cycling.
But I'm not sure how anyone can confidently say Bolt is doping without some very clear evidence, and by clear evidence I don't mean citing a win over a doper, or a sub-10 second time. He could just be a freak.
A sprinter, on the other hand, seems a more likely candidate for taking drugs to get the edge in such a specific discipline. Same goes for endurance runners and indeed any sport where endurance is the critical factor, e.g. cycling.
But I'm not sure how anyone can confidently say Bolt is doping without some very clear evidence, and by clear evidence I don't mean citing a win over a doper, or a sub-10 second time. He could just be a freak.
Its "likely" only because of how rampant doping is in the sports.
But he has obvious genetic advantages as well that you cannot buy and thats likely why he wins his races. No amount of dope will allow you to be that long and still have that level of mobility. Its not like he even overpowers other racers with his speed most of the time. He usually wins races in the last moments when everybody else gives out and he strides to the finish.
Personally I don't think he's doping but who knows. He was labeled relatively clean in a recent report that was meant to expose doping. So there's that.
But he has obvious genetic advantages as well that you cannot buy and thats likely why he wins his races. No amount of dope will allow you to be that long and still have that level of mobility. Its not like he even overpowers other racers with his speed most of the time. He usually wins races in the last moments when everybody else gives out and he strides to the finish.
Personally I don't think he's doping but who knows. He was labeled relatively clean in a recent report that was meant to expose doping. So there's that.
nephilimdj
Member
I think it happens with all the major franchised sports in the world, Australia just had the James Hird Saga, were he gave his team "diet pills" that just happened to become illegal the year after.
Blood doping is used in the endurance events, that bolt haven't used epo dosen't mean anything.
The jamaicans performed one out of competition test in total for all their athletes in the five months leading up to the 2012 olympics. The next year five of their top athletes tested positive. bolt has thr most money and power in athletics which buys him the best doctors, substances and influence in the iaaf. If he use or used ped, there's a tiny chance they would catch him with a test. Marion jones never tested positive and lance had one or two close calls, but helped by the cycle federation to avoid punishment
On the one hand he is a once in a lifetime freak of nature who already posted very fast times at a young age, on the other hand his world records are so out there that it almost seems unfathomable it was done without the aid of illegal substances.
I'd like to give to give him the benefit of the doubt but let's just say I wouldn't act surprised if they did find something.
I'd like to give to give him the benefit of the doubt but let's just say I wouldn't act surprised if they did find something.
Saint of Killers
Member
Bolt beat the ex-doper but the ex-doper ran faster times this season. He even ran faster than Bolt in the semi-finals than Bolt ran in the final. Had Gatlin run at that pace, and not broken his running form, he'd have likely won.
How many known dopers (i.e. dopers whom Bolt raced against and won, and it later transpired the losers were doping at the time) has Bolt beaten?
Do I think Bolt is doping? I hope not.
How many known dopers (i.e. dopers whom Bolt raced against and won, and it later transpired the losers were doping at the time) has Bolt beaten?
Do I think Bolt is doping? I hope not.
The easiest thought process is if one athlete doing well is caught doping, all must be doping. It's not the case. Not all athletes want to cheat others and themselves. The most recent study indicates around a third of endurance athletes that medalled on the track in the last olympics could be doping.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/olympic-medals-doping-report-ioc-responds/
Sprinting is a different beast and it's likely doping is more prevalent given its history. I suppose even if Bolt is doping he has shown amazing consistency at beating all others who are equally likely to be doping. Which would make him the greatest, regardless. Given his pedigree and steady progression I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/olympic-medals-doping-report-ioc-responds/
Sprinting is a different beast and it's likely doping is more prevalent given its history. I suppose even if Bolt is doping he has shown amazing consistency at beating all others who are equally likely to be doping. Which would make him the greatest, regardless. Given his pedigree and steady progression I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Count me in on the group who believes every athlete at the top takes PEDs. Yes, I'm sure he dopes and yes, I think everybody else does as well. Including Mayweather, Cristiano Ronaldo and so forth.
milanbaros
Member?
Very unlikely. Much more likely is that Bolt has the more sophisticated doping regime.
Do you know Jamaica has no anti-doping agency? It's a well-known fact that Bolt can literally be doping all parts of the year outside of times he's competing. I don't really have an opinion on if he's doping or not, but he's certainly not monitored for 80% of the year.
Of course it wouldn't be organized on a national team level. but a country could facilitate a culture that allows rampant drug use amongst its athletes
milanbaros
Member?
Such as not establishing an anti doping agency or having out of season testing?
QuicheFontaine
Member
I was watching the 100m on iPlayer last night and they did this thing were they put a little speedometer next to the guys as they ran along. Bolt's nearly got up to 30mph!
These are not really state-run programs. Even Chinese star athletes have their own foreign trainers, doctors, etc.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Innocent until proven guilty.
Alx
Member
Yeah that's close to my position too. "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst". I'm ready to believe that some of our best athletes are clean. But I'm not surprised when I learn that one of them isn't.
EdwardTeach
Member
I don't believe bolt is doping. His transition from being decent to the best in the world, happened early in his career and were due to mastering parts of his technique, especially his starts which had been a week point. He is just a freak of nature.
EdwardTeach
Member
Why? Why would bolt have been selected to be given "magic" drugs in his early 20's, when asafa powell was a much more established athlete. Before he won his first gold where would the money have come from to fund a sophisticated doping regime?
milanbaros
Member?
Selected by who? People have their own trainers, doctors and physios.
Mohonky
Member
Yeh my understanding is that he has consistently produced clean results with no suspect tests and he would be getting hit for doping tests far more than most athletes simply because of the events he is in and the success he has had. He's one of few athletes that I would genuinely be shocked to find out he'd been doping.
There was always doubts about athletes like Lance Armstrong long before he got done, same with many others.
GeordieMark
Member
This is the problem that athletics have these days. No matter what the tests say, they have been proved unreliable in catching drug cheats so now everyone is a suspect.
I'd love to believe Usain is clean, but will always have a doubt at the back of my mind.
I'd love to believe Usain is clean, but will always have a doubt at the back of my mind.
I've just stopped worrying about figuring out if they did or if they did not. Most of the time we'll never know. Sure there are clean athletes, but it's naive and delusional to assume they're clean if they don't get caught, so why kid yourself. If it really bothers you so much, then you can chose to abandon watching sports.
I don't care anymore. Learning that Roger Clemens was doping didn't change my enjoyment of watching him win Cy Youngs. That happened. I can't change history or alter my emotions of the past. And I'm not going to stop watching baseball because somebody might be doping.
You can chose to not watch or you can just enjoy the sports as they happen. Doping is a reality in sports. Deal with it.
I'm not saying abandon testing. If an athlete gets caught, then he doesn't deserve to continue making endorsement millions. Screw Lance Armstrong. His power trip deserves to end and he's a disgrace to sports. But I'm not going to hero worship athletes that don't get caught because doping skepticism in sports should be a routine part of being a fan now.
I don't care anymore. Learning that Roger Clemens was doping didn't change my enjoyment of watching him win Cy Youngs. That happened. I can't change history or alter my emotions of the past. And I'm not going to stop watching baseball because somebody might be doping.
You can chose to not watch or you can just enjoy the sports as they happen. Doping is a reality in sports. Deal with it.
I'm not saying abandon testing. If an athlete gets caught, then he doesn't deserve to continue making endorsement millions. Screw Lance Armstrong. His power trip deserves to end and he's a disgrace to sports. But I'm not going to hero worship athletes that don't get caught because doping skepticism in sports should be a routine part of being a fan now.
EdwardTeach
Member
The imaginary benefactor who supposedly gifted bolt with the best doping regime.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
milanbaros
Member?
It is about probability. Bolt is the fastest in history a sport where doping is extremely prevalent. He is also running for a country with weak doping controls. People don't know for a fact, they are saying it is likely. I don't think you need hard facts to make a probability judgement.
The kalejin tribe in kenya are running "freaks of nature", with body types that make them especially good at long distance running. And still there is wide spread doping amongst them.
Pagusas
Elden Member
When I was younger I use to be supper offended by the idea of dopping and our favorite athletes being nothing but chemically driven machines.
Now that I'm older and have to support a family and dream of what it would be like to be insanely rich, I realize the situation athletes are in.
Dont dope, watch the competition around you pass you by as you fade to obscurity and likely never make a single endorsement, failing to really make any money and have to leave sports all together for a desk or coaching job that pays little to nothing.
or
Dope, have a higher chance of getting that big win/big break, stay a front runner, recieve more money than you could ever spend, be setup for a lifetime.
Best Possible Situation: You are never caught, your retire rich and famous
Likely possible fate: Your caught, your name is tarnished, your forced to leave the sport, but you get to keep all the cash.
Worst Case: The drugs kill you or cause really bad side effects, you never make it in the sports world and your name is tarnished. no moeny, no body, likely dead.
At the end of the day, the chance of fame and fortune is such a strong draw, its hard to look at them and say "yeah you dirty cheat, how could you!" as we all know exactly how and why they did it, and its hard to say to anyone "intentionally hold back your chances because of love for the game!" when we are talking the difference of a life of luxiory and a perfectly setup retirement.
Now that I'm older and have to support a family and dream of what it would be like to be insanely rich, I realize the situation athletes are in.
Dont dope, watch the competition around you pass you by as you fade to obscurity and likely never make a single endorsement, failing to really make any money and have to leave sports all together for a desk or coaching job that pays little to nothing.
or
Dope, have a higher chance of getting that big win/big break, stay a front runner, recieve more money than you could ever spend, be setup for a lifetime.
Best Possible Situation: You are never caught, your retire rich and famous
Likely possible fate: Your caught, your name is tarnished, your forced to leave the sport, but you get to keep all the cash.
Worst Case: The drugs kill you or cause really bad side effects, you never make it in the sports world and your name is tarnished. no moeny, no body, likely dead.
At the end of the day, the chance of fame and fortune is such a strong draw, its hard to look at them and say "yeah you dirty cheat, how could you!" as we all know exactly how and why they did it, and its hard to say to anyone "intentionally hold back your chances because of love for the game!" when we are talking the difference of a life of luxiory and a perfectly setup retirement.
I don't think he is because his strides are what give him the edge over the short guys.
I'm sure there is lots of drug takers in athletics and other sports, none of them comes close to being under the microscope as much as cycling and there is so much more money involved, the powers at be likely brush quite a lot under the rug but I think there is genuine top physical athletes who are drug free that can never be matched by drug takers, they are just great at what they do and have the body that works best.
I'm sure there is lots of drug takers in athletics and other sports, none of them comes close to being under the microscope as much as cycling and there is so much more money involved, the powers at be likely brush quite a lot under the rug but I think there is genuine top physical athletes who are drug free that can never be matched by drug takers, they are just great at what they do and have the body that works best.
Marauder Shields
Member
I'd be shocked if he wasn't.
That's because endurance is very important and blood doping is highly effective for their craft, much like cycling.
Edsmells12345
Member
Slightly off-topic, but my younger brothers old coach who is Andrew Bogut's offseason coach is convinced Lebron James is on roids.
The way he slims down and bulks up, while also having the other signs (receding hairline etc) seems to confirm this.
I thought this would hinder my enjoyment of last season's playoffs but I was still going for Cavs.
The way he slims down and bulks up, while also having the other signs (receding hairline etc) seems to confirm this.
I thought this would hinder my enjoyment of last season's playoffs but I was still going for Cavs.
Delly you bloody legend
very likely. we know that athletes can dope and go their entire career without failing a drugs test. you're looking at someone utterly dominant even against times by the best in the world while doping. bolt is a freak of nature as everyone knows but it's really really really hard for a clean athlete to beat a doped athlete given that everyone trains incredibly hard, uses modern science and tech, is outstandingly naturally gifted for sprinting. it's nearly impossible for a clean athlete to smoke his doped rivals. ignoring the margins of the recent gatlin race, though it's a very impressive return from a poor season, his wr's are absolutely huge given the tiny margins in sprint.
The list of athletes in the 100m final at the Worlds this year was impressive. There's a lot of guys making some remarkable times nowadays. Sure, training, diet, sports psychology and all the other factors have improved over the years. But you're not going to tell me that PEDs isn't a big factor. There isn't one or two exceptional athletes, there's a lot.
So there's a lineup of dope filled athletes on the blocks. So what. It doesn't make the race any less exciting. .
So there's a lineup of dope filled athletes on the blocks. So what. It doesn't make the race any less exciting. .
The whole doping thing sounds kinf of hilarious to me. I presume that way way back in time someone thought they would get ahead of the competition by doping. That worked because not doping was the standard. Now that everyone is doping, doping is the standard. Now you gotta dope just to be on that standard and the rest has to come from the man/woman itself.
Then why aren't there more tall sprinters?
You could argue that PEDs are the reason Bolt is capable of moving that large body so fast.
Amphetamines sure as hell were, they basically fueled baseball for 30-40 years.
Always-honest
Banned
Likely? Yes.
But that doesn't prove anything ofcourse.
But that doesn't prove anything ofcourse.
and even a genetic sprinter freak would benefit from drugs tremendously from drugs that improve restitution and increase muscle growth allowing him to train more and harder.
Funnily there was recently several people claiming that doping wouldn't work on the kenyans because they were already "perfect"
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