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Is it time to start giving people a break for starting woke slop threads?
- Thread starter GrayChild
- Start date
Cumulus
Member
Why are we back at ", it has nothing to do with the product" when we've already established that the actions of the manufacturer absolutely do influence the consumption decisions of a lot of people including yourself..... As long as they are aware of them at least.
And in the case of Apple, this is the first time I've heard about this at all. Good to know, thanks for the heads-up.
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Bridges
Member
I just think if you want to be taken seriously this is no longer the way to do it. You're tired of anti-white racism, gender politics and progressive ideologies shoe-horned into media? Great, me too. But let's be specific.
Character X is gay therefore game is woke is dumb and undermines "the fight" if you want to call it that. The term "woke slop" just feels lazy. I use Marathon as an example because I see people call it woke but after many hours with that game there really aren't any progressive politics to be found, and if people mean something else by that they should be more specific.
Body Type 1 / 2 is the cringiest shit in games. I'd like that to go away. We should be specific in our criticism because "woke slop" is not going to be taken seriously by anyone that could actually make a difference.
Kacho
Gold Member
I could make threads about every game I play and enjoy but ain't nobody give a fuck. People want drama and controversy. It's entertaining in passing.
Because in my opinion as long as the product doesn't have something that's trying to push an agenda on me whatever it may be, woke or anti-woke, I really couldn't care, as long as the company is not harming anyone either. I also think this veiw is shared among a lot of people outside of gaming and disagreed with the idea that the reason it doesn't come up in other circles is due to visibility. Apple, its CEO, its philanthropy, etc are a lot more visible than the indie gaming studios some try to dig up dirt from, Mina the hollower being my example earlier. They simply don't try to dig dirt up on Apple in the first place (it would be easy if they tried) because most don't care when buying those products. I was just getting that point across. You don't have to agree with it but I think that is true.
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FalconPunch
Member
Imagine advocating for censorship smh. If you feel there are certain AA titles that aren't highlighted, create a thread.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Oh and these 3 aren't being watched.I'm deadly serious here.
There are too much agenda-driven showcases that push certain titles just because they're made by groups that are somewhat still marked as "marginalized".
In the meantime, AA and indie titles made by developers that don't fall under these categories will probably be pushed aside.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
If you live in a reality where everything you dont like or can't relate to = woke then that is not reality my friend. you people have hijacked the living shit out of the word and its now lost all meaning.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Guardian Monkey
Member
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Send all of them into the thread arena and virtue signal each others on who's the least woke until they play no games, like this list :
Woke Content Detector's Curated List of Games
docs.google.com
playbignbox
Member
Not everyone wants to "discuss" the issue, and that's okay.
The best part of these threads are the memes and jokes; that alone makes them worthwhile.
Bridges
Member
I respect the honesty in this answer, at least. The individual threads I mind less than the comments in other topics, personally. I think it drags the discourse down but as you said not everyone is even here for that, so that's fair.
bender
What time is it?
Barakov
Member
Nah. It's useful consumer advice. Make sure people know which games have overt left wing propaganda so they can avoid it if they choose.I'm deadly serious here.
There are too much agenda-driven showcases that push certain titles just because they're made by groups that are somewhat still marked as "marginalized".
In the meantime, AA and indie titles made by developers that don't fall under these categories will probably be pushed aside.
Boss Mog
Member
I would totally do that if they just did their own thing on the side. The problem is that it's not enough for them to do their own thing, they want to destroy the mainstream gaming and make their thing the only thing. Identity politics has fully infested mainstream gaming in the West which is why Asian games are gaining popuarity.
KanKamAndNob
Member
I'm probably more anti-woke than the majority of people on here, but even I had to do a double take when folks called the DQ12 character woke. Is it it a terrible design,? Sure, but I wouldn't call it woke. Same with Mina the Hollower, so I can at the very least empathize with "anti-woke" exhaustion to an extent when someone wants to call those kind of games woke.
With that said, I don't think we're anywhere near the levels of Reddit or Resetera, or really any other mainstream gaming forum that likes to pretend that AAA Western games aren't completely bloated with liberal, "pRoGrEsSiVe" crap thrown into games over the last 12 or so years now, and I want Gaf to stay that way. Calling out shit like
With that said, I don't think we're anywhere near the levels of Reddit or Resetera, or really any other mainstream gaming forum that likes to pretend that AAA Western games aren't completely bloated with liberal, "pRoGrEsSiVe" crap thrown into games over the last 12 or so years now, and I want Gaf to stay that way. Calling out shit like
- gender swapping male to females
- ugly/tranny looking women when they used to be beautiful and feminine to "defeat the male gaze"
- changing straight characters to being gay out of the blue/NPCs all being some weird shade of sexuality outside of straight
- making up retarded pronouns that are literal nonsense like they/them when someone is referring to themselves
- GRL PWR tropes and twisting the definition of """rEaLiSm""" only when it suits them (big boobs = unrealistic, 90 pound woman screaming like a banshee and terrifying men literally 3 times her size in body mass and combat experience)
- male characters being constantly lectured with shit like 'do better', 'all men are _______', male characters are lame, etc while the women are all there to """better""" the man
Guardian Monkey
Member
do better
KanKamAndNob
Member
Agreed. Western devs like Bungie do need to improve.
nkarafo
Member
"Gayming".
Yeah, they are taking the piss out of the hobby. They never cared about it, they only wanted to insert themselves and their agenda into it, like in every other hobby.
This is what happens when you are more worried about being called an "ist" by a bunch of mentally ill people and agenda pushers. Did you make sure that you established you are not?
Making "woke slop" threads isn't going to change anything. Instead you should have gatekept more. Made them feel unwelcome before they could spread. Now it's terminal.
Yeah, they are taking the piss out of the hobby. They never cared about it, they only wanted to insert themselves and their agenda into it, like in every other hobby.
This is what happens when you are more worried about being called an "ist" by a bunch of mentally ill people and agenda pushers. Did you make sure that you established you are not?
Making "woke slop" threads isn't going to change anything. Instead you should have gatekept more. Made them feel unwelcome before they could spread. Now it's terminal.
PeteBull
Gold Member
U are free to have that view, i and most of 4b males around the world think more conservatively/traditionally, hell even most men in western citicies think that way, they just arent allowed to voice their opinion w/o repercusions of all sorts(most nasty ones being losing their jobs).
The difference between us, we as silient majority dont repress ur worldview or punish u for it, yet u if given any power to do so would do it in a heartbeat
PeteBull
Gold Member
As long as proper arguments can be given and "woke slop" stigma can be justified its fine, no? U know there is a spectrum to that shit, game can have token wokeness(like A/B bodytype in elden ring, or gay romance option hidden behind multiple pecculiar dialogue options for henry in kcd2) or just be straight(
) veilguard or other marathon.Most ppl(even 100% antifeminist and antiwokeist like myself) are fine and wont bat an eye if its only "token wokeness" aka u give bluesky pd-files and sellout journos bone to chew on and rest of the game is solid/based af
Problem is when story/gameplay/overall fun is affected by that shit, many of us would like to know infront, before we buy game, which type of "woke" it is, token or full on shitfest.
Venom Snake
Member
..or it won't exceed 10 pages because from what i see it's the same repeating group of people with drive-by comments over and over again.
Topher
Identifies as young
For me, I don't have a problem with woke messages, even ones I disagree with, as long as they are creatively incorporated into a story. Take Sirona from Hogwarts Legacy, for example. You hear very little about that character, good or bad. Not a big deal, but a trans character nonetheless. Contrast that with the heavy handed nonsense of Veilguard. Stark difference. Movies and TV have been doing similar things for decades. Very seldom is it an issue because the writers know what they are doing.
As long as proper arguments can be given and "woke slop" stigma can be justified its fine, no? U know there is a spectrum to that shit, game can have token wokeness(like A/B bodytype in elden ring, or gay romance option hidden behind multiple pecculiar dialogue options for henry in kcd2) or just be straight(
Most ppl(even 100% antifeminist and antiwokeist like myself) are fine and wont bat an eye if its only "token wokeness" aka u give bluesky pd-files and sellout journos bone to chew on and rest of the game is solid/based af
Problem is when story/gameplay/overall fun is affected by that shit, many of us would like to know infront, before we buy game, which type of "woke" it is, token or full on shitfest.
That's pretty much what I've been saying my man. Others are not so nuanced though.
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realcool
Member
Cumulus
Member
Hmm after more pondering, I think I'll stick with visibility probably being the main reason why some companies seemingly get away with it, with Budweiser as a prime example what happens if they suddenly put that shit on their sleeve for all to see. After all up till this talk I had no idea Apple was at all invested in this beyond the usual pride month merch, despite being a perpetual online IT person. It`s just not part of their Brand image and I´d bet that we´ll never see Tim Cook in a meeting with government officials with LGBT colors visible.
There´s also a big difference between generally being inclusive and pushing trans-agenda. I get the impression that a big part of the anti-woke are, like me, completely ok with the LGB part and just draw the line at the TQ..xyz "mental illness"-stuff.
Geez now I want studies....this irks me.
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deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
So we all agree to make a thread about woke shit, right? I'm going to suggest a few points
DA RULES:
- Having one or a few gay characters doesn't mean woke; and with that said, they're a minority, hence "one or a few". Games like Last of Us shouldn't be listed;
- Pandering woke stuff is the real problem. Dragon Age is the best big recent example of this direction, so needs the audience attention to what kind of content one can see, with proof of the thing;
- Real people involved in controversy sould be showed with the woke thing related to the woke work, BUT never to be harassed. Ghost of Yotei voice actress is one example that she is with the flag, but didn't affect a single thing with her work in the game or in real life towards the game, so no point bringing her into attention. But a developer or a journalist who has a meltdown of a game? For sure;
- Changing something doesn't mean woke. We recently saw with the Black Flag remake a lot of changes, and one being a cleavage not that open... This one example is not related to woke, so don't bitch about everything being woke
DA RULES:
- Having one or a few gay characters doesn't mean woke; and with that said, they're a minority, hence "one or a few". Games like Last of Us shouldn't be listed;
- Pandering woke stuff is the real problem. Dragon Age is the best big recent example of this direction, so needs the audience attention to what kind of content one can see, with proof of the thing;
- Real people involved in controversy sould be showed with the woke thing related to the woke work, BUT never to be harassed. Ghost of Yotei voice actress is one example that she is with the flag, but didn't affect a single thing with her work in the game or in real life towards the game, so no point bringing her into attention. But a developer or a journalist who has a meltdown of a game? For sure;
- Changing something doesn't mean woke. We recently saw with the Black Flag remake a lot of changes, and one being a cleavage not that open... This one example is not related to woke, so don't bitch about everything being woke
Bojji
Member
HL is a funny example of hipocrisy on both sides. Game is hated by woke mob because of JK Rowling.
At the same time it gets a free pass from "chuds", despite being VERY WOKE. Devs tried to outdid themselves with this one, XIX century England has more diversity than modern New York, not to mention trans and gay characters.
Bojji
Member
Closer
Member
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Hadoukens
Member
Ain't nobody reading a college length essay everytime some loopy devs wanna inject their politics into a game.
And most of the time they're right unless it's some rage baiter . We all know the agenda pushers deflect, obfuscate, ridicule, and act hostile.
The pendulum has swung back and nobody ever liked it to begin with. The party of tolerance are rude, hostile and intolerant of everything.
NickFire
Member
Video game characters that normal human beings find appealing to look at have been literally killing marginalized communities since sometime around the time humans invented farm tools. And you expect people to continue tolerating this? I can't even right now. I'm literally shaking,
MiguelItUp
Member
That's also been my perspective, for the most part. Much like anything and everything creative, a project coming from a place of passion feels much different than something that just feels pander-y and attempting to bash people over the head. So I find the former more enticing, while the latter tends to be the stuff that I'd instinctively avoid. Well, and majority of the time those kind of games lean into it so hard that you can look at it and know it's not your kind of game at all. Something like Dustborn comes to mind for me.
If people enjoy those kind of games, cool, good for them. But they're not for me.
That being said, you're also not going to see me skimming every release in an attempt to find something wrong. If it's enough to immediately notice it on the surface level, then I ignore it. I just keep an eye out for games that look interesting to me and go from there.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Yep. The problem is I don't think the vast majority of writers in the video game industry have the talent or experience to take on these subjects. 99 times out of 100 it is just so bad.
MiguelItUp
Member
I couldn't agree more. Rather than being legitimately talented they just cover whatever they touch in personal opinions and content that feels like amateur/juvenile nonsense.
Sethbacca
Member
Quality of conversation > Quantity of conversation
KanKamAndNob
Member
I remember thinking that when I first started playing the game and a troon is quite literally one of the first characters you meet with a voice like James Earl Jones. It was fucking whiplash after seeing so many comments from people saying it would "trigger the libs" and I'm over here thinking that XIX century England looks more like New York City.
phant0m
Member
Best part is that's the same type that will complain about non-white/male protags.
They literally got a good-looking white bread-ass male protag and still whine
Also none of these characters have purple hair, piercings, tattoos, or were beaten with the modern-day 'ugly stick' which just leaves......oh.
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kat_on_the_roof
Member
On both sides, right?
uncreativename
Member
I think that pretty much everyone on here agreed to give that game the NOT WOKE stamp lol, but there's definitely some people who're extremely mad about it (I like to check kotakuinaction just because if it weren't for places like them this stuff wouldn't get any visibility at all, but of course like any source you have to double check what they say and they can go overboard sometimes).
This is a small sample:
Topher
Identifies as young
That's what I was saying earlier. For some folks, there will always be something.
Topher
Identifies as young
Not so sure about "everyone" here, but generally I think you are correct. There are some puritan types out there though.
phant0m
Member
That's really interesting....do we also complain about this one then?
Or do we just stick with OP and highlight the black, lgbt, and female-focused events for maximum ragebait?
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uncreativename
Member
If there does end up being a thread, I don't think there should be rules stopping people from saying what they think. If people are forced to censor themselves, how can you have a real discussion? You'll have to grit your teeth and accept people like me saying Last of Us 2 is woke :], and I'll have to accept people saying Black Flag remake is woke. It's just opinions.
I usually try to find a source for why I'm down on some game, but I don't think you can expect everyone to do that all the time. You just need to double-check what people say, like anywhere else.
Obviously people in game dev should never be harrassed, but no one on here is organizing harrassment campaigns, so I think that's a non-issue.
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