Support NeoGAF

[dark10x]

An actuall reply from the person who disagreed with me rather than "lol, wow, good gosh, or relying on someone to speak for him).

Halo's jumping was fine, the only people who I've EVER heard complain of it were the ones defending MP's controls as being just right for the controller.

Which leads me to believe the controller should have been desighned or at least remade with more options for buttons.

Besides I never compared MP to any fps'r.

Look at it this way;

Halo's jumping works very well within the constraints of that game. I know, I've spent a lot of time playing multiplayer and I KNOW how to play Halo. However, Prime's jumping system is FAR more accurate and precise in actual usage. The point is that Halo's system for jumping would absolutely fail when placed within Metroid Prime.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Nah, I was pretty much done with you when you said metroid prime was as linear as SC

Well first off, I know the comparison was an over-exageration, I didn't think I had to tell you.

Heck I know you can do things out of order from time to time in MP, & you kinda decide what you wanna do, some things cant be gotten to without correct powerups or skill.

& you cant do anything in SC cept what they tell you, my point was it's still linear, it just depends on how well the devs hide it.

When I think of an open ended game, I think of a game like Morrowind, certainly not MP.

You guys on this board get waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too defensive at times.

 

[dark10x]

Well first off, I know the comparison was an over-exageration, I didn't think I had to tell you.

Heck I know you can do things out of order from time to time in MP, & you kinda decide what you wanna do, some things cant be gotten to without correct powerups or skill.

& you cant do anything in SC cept what they tell you, my point was it's still linear, it just depends on how well the devs hide it.

When I think of an open ended game, I think of a game like Morrowind, certainly not MP.

You guys on this board get waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too defensive at times.

Whoa whoa whoa, your idea of non-linear gameplay is a bit off...

Morrowind is about as open-ended as you could possibly get for a single player game, but very few games reach that point. Does that mean that virtually nothing is non-linear? Prime is MUCH less linear than a good 75% of the games released this gen.

The reason people became so defensive is because your point was just incredibly off the wall. It isn't often that you read something here THAT incredibly shocking. I honestly can't understand how anyone could really feel that way...so it is very strange to me.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Look at it this way;

Halo's jumping works very well within the constraints of that game. I know, I've spent a lot of time playing multiplayer and I KNOW how to play Halo. However, Prime's jumping system is FAR more accurate and precise in actual usage. The point is that Halo's system for jumping would absolutely fail when placed within Metroid Prime.

I realise that (to an extent), Lemme try to explain it a little better.
(I just got back from the GYM, and the ephedrine has me 90 mph, and going to new topics before I ever actually get my point across in the right words ;p)

I played through about 30% of MP, before returning it, so the levels where jumping precision was uber important, I missed.

I loved the music and atmosphere in MP, but the controls even if for the better in the long run, don't seem to be the most intuitive scheme for casuals, which was my point.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Um.....yea you did.


There's nothing wrong with the controls in MP. If it were so horrid, the game would have never gotton the ratings it did.

Comparison in linearity, not controls.

 

[dark10x]

The thing is, if those are not usable for casuals...what is? A dual analog setup is MORE complex than what Prime offered. I believe you are talking from a different perspective here. You are used to Halo and had issues adapting to a different scheme.

I really don't understand what makes them difficult, though. What were you unable to do? I mean, with something like Resident Evil, there are OBVIOUS limitations in the control scheme and improvements could be quite easily imagined. That is not the case here.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a couple things...

If you only played a small bit of Prime, you 1) probably have memories of the earlier sections which were much more linear and 2) you probably used the hint system. With that system, the game basically tells you where to go when you complete something. Turning this on by default was a mistake IMO, but it was likely there to help casuals.

If you had managed to get further in the game and did NOT use the hint system, you wouldn't make those comments about linearity...

 

[Redbeard]

I really don't understand what makes them difficult, though. What were you unable to do?

Move while looking around.

It may seem trivial, but I think this is an absolutely essential aspect of any first-person game, be it a shooter, an RPG, or an adventure. It is the most direct and intuitive way of maneuvering, experiencing, and interacting from that perspective. I could cite specific examples of where the lack of free move/look was problemmatic (for me anyway).

 

[DJ Sl4m]

The thing is, if those are not usable for casuals...what is? A dual analog setup is MORE complex than what Prime offered. I believe you are talking from a different perspective here. You are used to Halo and had issues adapting to a different scheme.

I really don't understand what makes them difficult, though. What were you unable to do? I mean, with something like Resident Evil, there are OBVIOUS limitations in the control scheme and improvements could be quite easily imagined. That is not the case here.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest a couple things...

If you only played a small bit of Prime, you 1) probably have memories of the earlier sections which were much more linear and 2) you probably used the hint system. With that system, the game basically tells you where to go when you complete something. Turning this on by default was a mistake IMO, but it was likely there to help casuals.

If you had managed to get further in the game and did NOT use the hint system, you wouldn't make those comments about linearity...

Well that would make sence about the linearity disagreement, I turned the hint system off, but not untill I read about it on this forum.

I'm guessing you're right about me not reaching ereas where the player had more options on what to do, and in which order.

The control scheme problem I see is casuals that use the 'Halo' scheme use it not only for Halo, but most FPS'rs these days, so it's more likely to be second nature to them, with these controls seeming to be a bit awkward considering so many games take advantage of the Halo type control scheme on all 3 consoles.

 

[Mock]

Does a classic series need to be made to control so casuals are up to speed? I don't think so. If Metroid Prime played like Halo or Rainbow Six, then it wouldn't BE a Metroid game at all, just another FPS. They designed the control so it played well in 3D but still felt like a Metroid game, they didn't make it for people who like first person shooters.

People who had never played Metroid prior and walked into MP expecting Halo got a well-deserved rude awakening.

Then you have a game like Castlevania: Lament of Innocence - another classic brought into 3D, but in all honesty, was nothing more than a DMC clone hand made for casuals, eschewing practially everything that made the last four installments awesome. Now that might be fine for the casual gamer who doesn't know anything else of the series, but as a fan of prior installments, it was a slap in the face. And while I'm on the subject, so was Ninja Gaiden. We already have a Devil May Cry, folks, and if we need another, Capcom will make more.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you want a real introduction to Metroid, play Super Metroid on SNES or Zero Mission on GBA. If you do that first, you'll understand why it was designed to play as it currently is in 3D.

 

[Tenguman]

Hey, how about we all just agree to disagree and go look at Lindsay Lohan pictures?

 

[dark10x]

And while I'm on the subject, so was Ninja Gaiden. We already have a Devil May Cry, folks, and if we need another, Capcom will make more.

Except in that case, Ninja Gaiden was superior any similar game Capcom has ever released...regardless of whether or not it was similar.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Hey, how about we all just agree to disagree and go look at Lindsay Lohan pictures?

Yea, that's kewl.

Look, I never meant to sound offensive, if I came off that way..... my apologies

 

[Tenguman]

it's cool. arguments can get heated in threads about games people care about

it's kinda sad actually

*sigh* i need a life

 

[TheGreenGiant]

I realise that (to an extent), Lemme try to explain it a little better.
(I just got back from the GYM, and the ephedrine has me 90 mph, and going to new topics before I ever actually get my point across in the right words ;p)

I played through about 30% of MP, before returning it, so the levels where jumping precision was uber important, I missed.
.

The gym's not the reason why you're basically dishing up tripe. 30% of Prime is not a good benchmark by which to measure the game - you haven't experience the space jump boots, the natty space ball puzzles and the weapon upgrades. I can't stand it when people criticise MP without giving it a fair go. The latter stages of the game (underwater, suntemple..etc) all requires quite a bit of platforming action to get through and then you get the visors which really change the gameplay by opening up what you can do. If you'd gotten to this stage, you'd see that MP isn't a FPS... its exactly how Nintendo described it. a FPA.

its not that people on this board are waaaay defensive.. its incredibly annoying to read really stupid and ridiculous posts by people who talk out of their arse... and to bring a generic FPS game like Halo into this discuss. Hell, if everyone went into every Halo2 thread and said, it'd control better with a keyboard and mouse... we'd have hell.

 

[The Shadow]

Hey, how about we all just agree to disagree and go look at Lindsay Lohan pictures?

*image*

But I don't wanna look at Lindsay Lohan pictures...

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Well, there wasn't much hype for the previous titles either...but they'll likely sell decently enough. I mean, if they can pump them out in such a short period of time (not including Sly here), surely the budgets are not too terribly high. I mean, they are all based on "currently existing technology" and employ old design elements.

...and employ teams with three figure head counts (also not including Sly, AFAIK). DOH!

 

[inpHilltr8r]

Map jumping to the L trigger, Fire to the R trigger, and you've got both thumbs on the sticks. Swap around some of the other functions and you're good to go.

...to the hospital, with a pair of sprained fingers. That layout works with buttons, or even short throw triggers (well, no), but with the long-throw fingertraps on the GC pad, no fucking way.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

This wasn't meant to become a a MP control scheme vs. a dual analog scheme. But I have to agree for the first time with dark10x. Think about TS2's dual-analog setup. I found it to be somewhat awkward, & then you must keep in mind the Cube's specific controller design. (although RS3's dual analog scheme is aligned better & far more intuitive) Regardless, Retro will in all probability include a secondary dual-analog setup, but due to the nature of how enemies attack, etc., I predict mass ownages. Many detractors will be begging for lock-on. I also read that someone said multi wouldn't be deep, or have many modes. You're incorrect, the little I played was a blast & that was merely a sample.

 

[etiolate]

and a lot turned off by how linear Prime was.

The Metroid series and Prime's constant exploration keeps the games from feeling linear. Many powerups and expansions can be gotten in many different orders, depending on how much you explore. Plus the Artifacts being in no certain order and the fact you can get many of them before reaching that point in the game kind of throws your idea of being linear straight out the window.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Just watched the missle lock on + dark visor? clip off IGN.

s e x y

That's not an ingame still but just look at it. beauty.

Is anyone else on the board, that close to a MP2E media blackout. The video for the dark visor was the 1st video I've watched. Don't want to spoil too much of the fun in discovery.

 

[etiolate]

I am in a self-induced media/news blackout about the game. I want to be surprised by stuff this time. I was so worried about Prime sucking that I read everything and saw everything about it. Somehow it still managed to surprise me, but I guess I'm paranoid of spoiling Echoes now.