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[MisterHero]

in this context your avvy cracks me the fuck up.
You're wrong on metroid, wrong on smash bros, wrong on pikmin, wrong on f-zero, wrong on xenoblade, you're pretty much just flat out wrong on everything you said in that post.

genre defining my ass.

Actually you're wrong. Entries in each of those series can be argued as legitimate masterpieces.

Metroid Prime never felt like a shooter to me. There was never a sense that a dangerous weapon was attached to her arm - it just always felt like a Nerf gun. For me it was one of the few flaws of the game.

Yeah it was more about changing the environment around Samus. Wavebuster owns every weapon in any game ever though.

 

[test_account]

Killzone is not iconic.

How is iconic being defined?

 

[Canis lupus]

I'd totally buy a mario FPS. Though a TPS would be even funnier.

I'm surprised nintendo hasn't tried this.

With the cover system present in many TPS...

 

[10k]

Metroid Prime is a first person adventure, not first person shooter.

Also, Call of Mario: Mushroom Warfare ftw.

 

[Coconut]

How is iconic being defined?

When you hear the term FPS you think of?


Also how quickly people forget the super scope game Yoshi Safari

 

[The Awesomest]

Well, here's the thing. There's no issue with Yoshi's Safari. And indeed it would be stupid to show the gun (or whatever he's firing with). However, this makes it so that the game isn't in first-person. If the game was to have a first-person view, you would see the gun. In some racing games, you can set the camera so that it's right in front of the car -- not the cockpit view and not the third-person view. That's a similar thing. It's neither first nor third person really, it's just a camera angle. I have no issue with Yoshi's Safari not showing the gun, but it's not a first-person game. If the game was to be in first-person view, you'd see exactly what the character in the game was seeing.

You make an interesting point bringing up bumper cameras. I would say you're right, that isn't a first-person point of view, simply because there wouldn't be a person sitting on the bumper. However, in the case of Yoshi's Safari, what exactly is it missing? We see the gun in our hands, we see the back of Yoshi's head, like we would see the dashboard of a car in a racing game's first-person perspective. Where the camera is is where the head is situated, and to my knowledge, everything that needs to be seen can be seen.

If you were to respond to Nostremitus's comment about Wizardry, I assume you would put it in the same category as Yoshi's Safari?

i don't know that a long response is necessary. i see where you're coming from. if you're only familiar with the FPS genres more recent big hits your viewpoint makes sense. while the big hits lately have been very, shall we say, arcadey in nature, it didn't always used to be the case and exploration and light puzzle solving and such things used to be very common in the genre.

Yes, I now understand where you guys are coming from. That makes sense.

 

[ihearthawthats]

I really am not wrong.

No JRPG released last gen was reviewed as well as Xenoblade and many consider it to be one of the best RPG's of all time.

Metroid prime is the 7th most highly reviewed game of all time, and among the best in it's genre, the other prime games all were 90+ games too.

F-Zero is niche, but highly respected, it isn't a stretch to call it one of the more respected Racing IP's, just look at GAF fawn over it.

Smash bros? I don't see how i'm wrong, no fighting game sells even close to it, I called it the most popular and successful fighting IP, and it is, not other fighting game sells even close to it.

Pikmin? Also highly lauded, and it did invent a new way to play rts like games on a console.

You're opinion doesn't invalidate the truth of most of my comparisons.

Also my avatar is irrelevant, you can either actually evaluate a comment/argument on its basis or you can build a strawman and look intellectually bankrupt, which attacking someones post due to an avatar does.

you use sales to justify smash bros, yet f-zero can be niche and still be on the list? according to wikipedia, tekken, sf, and mk all beat smash anyways in terms of sales. also, i would think those sales don't even include arcades, which all 3 of these franchises have been a big part of.

tbh, other than xenoblade it's hard to label these franchises as iconic to their genre because they like to bend the rules a lot. iconic fighting games will always be traditional ones like sf and tekken; iconic racing games, gran turismo and need for speed; and iconic rts games, starcraft and age of empires.

 

[test_account]

When you hear the term FPS you think of? Also how quickly people forget the super scope game Yoshi Safari

First i think of is Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem and Call of Duty. On further thinking, i come to Halo, Killzone, Medal of Honor etc..

 

[Daschysta]

you use sales to justify smash bros, yet f-zero can be niche and still be on the list? according to wikipedia, tekken, sf, and mk all beat smash anyways in terms of sales. also, i would think those sales don't even include arcades, which all 3 of these franchises have been a big part of.

tbh, other than xenoblade it's hard to label these franchises as iconic to their genre because they like to bend the rules a lot. iconic fighting games will always be traditional ones like sf and tekken, iconic racing games, gran turismo and need for speed, and iconic rts games starcraft and age of empires.

Street fighter and Mortal combat no longer beat smash, or come even close, on a game to game basis, which is what I was referring to, obviously a franchise that has been around that long will have greater total franchise sales.

Also i'm not arguing every game in terms of iconicism, if you'll look my OP was in response to the idiot who claimed Nintendo couldn't make good/successful games that weren't Mario. All of the games I listed were good/successful games by Nintendo. Period. They can all also be considered "great" games reasonably. Though, smash, zelda, mario, kart, fire emblem, metroid and others certainly can be considered Iconic that wasn't even what was being argued.

 

[Coconut]

First i think of is Wolfenstein 3D, Duke Nukem and Call of Duty. On further thinking, i come to Halo, Killzone, Medal of Honor etc..

I find it hard to believe it's that high up on the list, but whatever.

 

[fluffydelusions]

How is iconic being defined?

As a "classic" I played through KZ3 and found it alright...had fun with the MP for a while but it's by no means a classic like say Goldeneye, doom, half life etc

 

[goomba]

you use sales to justify smash bros, yet f-zero can be niche and still be on the list? according to wikipedia, tekken, sf, and mk all beat smash anyways in terms of sales. also, i would think those sales don't even include arcades, which all 3 of these franchises have been a big part of.

tbh, other than xenoblade it's hard to label these franchises as iconic to their genre because they like to bend the rules a lot. iconic fighting games will always be traditional ones like sf and tekken; iconic racing games, gran turismo and need for speed; and iconic rts games, starcraft and age of empires.

Sounds like your bending the rules by saying that Nintendo developed fighting, racing and rts games don't count as fighting, racing or rts games.

 

[gryz]

CoD sells a ton but is also available on all major platforms. If Nintendo wants the FPS community to consider their platform as a must have... they would need to have exclusive titles that appeal to them as well as third party alternatives.

Xbox owners can get Halo & COD
PlayStation owner can get Killzone & COD
Wii owners can get COD

see the problem?

no

 

[test_account]

I find it hard to believe it's that high up on the list, but whatever.

Why? Well, it is a relatively recent serie and i've played a lot of Killzone 2 online (it is one of my favorite games in this generation actually), so it is fresh in my memory. And now the serie has been mentioned many times in this thread, so it isnt that strange that it is one of the first thing i think of hehe I just wrote what i first thought of when you asked the question. I have more nostalgic memories to other FPS (also worth mentioning Doom (cant believe i forgot that earlier), Unreal and Unreal Tournament as well).

As a "classic" I played through KZ3 and found it alright...had fun with the MP for a while but it's by no means a classic like say Goldeneye, doom, half life etc

I agree that Killzone 3 was more in the alright category compared to Killzone 2, but Killzone 2 is one my favorite games in this generation. Killzone 2 also have that infamous pre-render story around it. It is not the game that "everyone" knows, but a lot of gamers know of it. I'm not sure that i will call it directly iconic because i dont think this is a game that "everyone" will look back at in 10-15 years and talk about how good it was, but it is quite known game, so i just wondered what made something iconic or not

 

[MrCunningham]

When you hear the term FPS you think of?


Also how quickly people forget the super scope game Yoshi Safari

Well Yoshi's Safari was really more of an on rails shooter than a traditional FPS. Even though it was played in a first person perspective and did feature shooting.

Someone said Contra was a 2D shooter. Nobody used that term.

Contra was all about enemy pattern memorization and evading bullets. It most definitely was a shooter, since that was the primary gameplay element of the game. It's a "run and gun" shooter. but still a shooter.

it's also a gross oversimplification of every FPS that isn't just a linear slog from point A to point B with nothing but shooting inbetween. there are many such FPS titles. Bioshock for example is considered an FPS. what make you of that?

you're being massively reductive to suggest that all FPS games are like Doom, Halo and COD. you're being massively reductive to suggest that exploration is something native to an action adventure and not something commonly seen in an FPS.

are we just trying to discredit the whole genre of FPS as 'dumb' like a summer blockbuster by arguing that Metroid Prime is not an FPS and overlooking Bioshock, Far Cry, Crysis, Half Life et al at the same time?

Right now I am playing through Borderlands 2, and this game is an excellent mix of FPS and RPG elements. The game has large open worlds, exploration, non linear quests (with a linear main story), multiple optional quests within quests, experience points and skill trees. But still at it's core, I think of it as a FPS. But I would say that it almost has as many adventure elements as the Metroid Prime series, though it lacks the intricate puzzles of Metroid Prime.

To me Prime is a FPS at it's core as well, but with a strong emphasis on adventure gaming elements. Though some people would say that Prime is an adventure game with some FPS elements. But as someone else said, it is all just splitting hairs really.

The only internal team Nintendo has in its stable that's really capable of producing a good FPS is Retro, otherwise I would see them outsourcing the development to other developers. Though Rare used to be their go-to team for this genre.

 

[boiled goose]

Prime is an adventure game. Just like fo3 is a wrpg. Both have shooter elements bit u don't play them for the same reaon u play cod or timesplitters.

 

[ForeverZero]

If by "Nintendo", you mean Nintendo's EAD teams? Then no, cuz it won't ever happen. I don't think their interested in the FPS genre.

 

[Daschysta]

Nintendo certainly "could" design a great FPS if they really had the mind to, they have the cash to hire talented devs with FPS experience to oversee their own internal people, who are very talented.

I don't think Nintendo sees the need though, I'm willing to be they are more than satisfied just getting the bigger 3rd party FPS's on their console with comparable online funtionality to other versions.

Personally i'm just fine with that, the market is saturated with the types of shooters that people are talking about on here, i wouldn't want Nintendo's internal studios wasted on such an effort. If I want an FPS i'll just play COD, I'd prefer Nintendo to do what they are good at, though 3rd party games are a welcome addition.

 

[Makonero]

If by "Nintendo", you mean Nintendo's EAD teams? Then no, cuz it won't ever happen. I don't think their interested in the FPS genre.

Funny, because one of Nintendo's core teams did create a first person game where you shoot things.

 

[KDR_11k]

I'm not sure Nintendo's Japanese studios should attempt that (the genre is unpopular there and while a lack of experience would increase the chances of the game being something unique it could also result in missing commonly expected features). Their western studios might but I'm not sure that's an efficient use of their resources.

Of course if we don't take FPS quite so strictly and include third person shooters in the genre (which IMO we should) then the Japanese studios could be used too. It may still not make too much sense since overall I don't think Nintendo would be up for the hyperviolence that that genre is about nowadays. Sandlot could do it, both Zangeki no Reginleiv and Chou Soujuu Mecha MG are pretty much third person shooters that really show how their respective systems' unique control methods can change games but Nintendo has this annoying tendency not to bring Sandlot games over. Yes, Reginleiv hands you mostly swords and spears but when you can stab enemies at three hundred meters with a spear that's really not much different from shooting them.