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Is Nintendo Too Small For Their Success and Potential?

casiopao

Member
Keep in mind SE also includes Eidos (Montreal, Crystal Dynamics, IO, etc) and whatever's left of Taito. They're like four companies in one.


Reminds of that weird rumor they were looking at Hino for pres.

Level 5 would definitely mesh better, Nintendo already publishes most of their library overseas, but I think there's something to be said for the diversity Capcom would add. Competitively too, locking down Monster Hunter and locking out Resident Evil and Streer Fighter from Sony/MS could be a big deal.

The problem with Capcom is while their IP diversity will be totally beneficial for Nintendo, the fact that many of those IP have also been damaged by certain bad moves is not going to be a good thing.

DmC happen, Megaman is dead, Resident Evil is loss, SFV killed SF, LP3 killed Lost Planet, Dragons Dogma is too expensive to be continued, BoF mobile tarnished the IP..... Hell it is actually easier to mention what IP they had left which is still going strong. MH and Phoenix Wright and sadly no more.

Not to forget the bloated number of Capcom employee and their high turn over rate is going to scare the hell out of Nintendo who surely don't want another Retro studio problem.

Level-5 on the other hand is what Nintendo should strive to become. With only 280 employee, the number which is only double of Hal Laboratory,or triple of Game Freak, they had produced so many hits that it is not even funny. While they had some blunders/flops like the infamous Gundam Age, Time Travelers and Girls Rpg.

They had been keep pumping out greatly succesful IP every generation. Layton series, Danball Senki series, Inazuma Eleven series, Fantasy Life and of course the absolute phenomenal success Youkai Watch series.

As long as they had Nintendo to give them brakes on how not to run their IP to the ground, i can see how they will both really supporting ecosystem.^~^
 

Datschge

Member
Nintendo owns 97% of Monolithsoft, while the remaining 3% go to the founders of Monolithsoft.

Bamco has no stake in the company. But due to their close relationship with Mono/Nintendo. Nintendo lets Monolithsoft handhead team work with Bamco.
I know. I was just mentioning Namco since even before Nintendo bought them Monolith Soft was always internal, just to Namco before that. People keep talking about Monolith Soft as if they had been independent at one point, which was never the case.
 

MacTag

Banned
The problem with Capcom is while their IP diversity will be totally beneficial for Nintendo, the fact that many of those IP have also been damaged by certain bad moves is not going to be a good thing.

DmC happen, Megaman is dead, Resident Evil is loss, SFV killed SF, LP3 killed Lost Planet, Dragons Dogma is too expensive to be continued, BoF mobile tarnished the IP..... Hell it is actually easier to mention what IP they had left which is still going strong. MH and Phoenix Wright and sadly no more.

Not to forget the bloated number of Capcom employee and their high turn over rate is going to scare the hell out of Nintendo who surely don't want another Retro studio problem.

Level-5 on the other hand is what Nintendo should strive to become. With only 280 employee, the number which is only double of Hal Laboratory,or triple of Game Freak, they had produced so many hits that it is not even funny. While they had some blunders/flops like the infamous Gundam Age, Time Travelers and Girls Rpg.

They had been keep pumping out greatly succesful IP every generation. Layton series, Danball Senki series, Inazuma Eleven series, Fantasy Life and of course the absolute phenomenal success Youkai Watch series.

As long as they had Nintendo to give them brakes on how not to run their IP to the ground, i can see how they will both really supporting ecosystem.^~^
After their handling of the IPs in Smash, I feel fairly confident Nintendo could helm pretty successful turnaround revivals for both Mega Man and Street Fighter. And let's not kid ourselves, even if RE6 was bloated and missed it's insane targets the property is still massively popular. No question losing it would be a blow to PlayStation and Xbox. Then you have Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney which already fit seamlessly with Nintendo's core audience. Capcom also has experience in making scalable cross-platform middleware (MT Framework), which is an area Nintendo is probably looking like they may need some help. With Capcom it's not just the properties or the workforce but also the technical expertise they could bring.

And it's not like Level 5 isn't just as, if not more, notorious for speedy IP milk and churn. Professor Layton and Inazuma Eleven may have been huge at one point but they're essentially dead properties at this point. Yo-Kai Watch is doing great but we'll see if Level 5 can make it last, with two strikes so far I'm not that confident. Monster Hunter's outlasted all of them by comparison and it's even older.

I do agree Level 5 would be an easier company to absorb due to their size, but I'm not sure what Nintendo really gains here. They already secure nearly all their games with western publishing deals, they don't really need Hino and their other creatives, their properties are largely redundant, and their low workforce means they're reliant on contracting developers like Hand, Tose or Tri-ace to make their games for them. Why buy them?
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
The problem with Capcom is while their IP diversity will be totally beneficial for Nintendo, the fact that many of those IP have also been damaged by certain bad moves is not going to be a good thing.

DmC happen, Megaman is dead, Resident Evil is loss, SFV killed SF, LP3 killed Lost Planet, Dragons Dogma is too expensive to be continued, BoF mobile tarnished the IP..... Hell it is actually easier to mention what IP they had left which is still going strong. MH and Phoenix Wright and sadly no more.

Not to forget the bloated number of Capcom employee and their high turn over rate is going to scare the hell out of Nintendo who surely don't want another Retro studio problem.

Level-5 on the other hand is what Nintendo should strive to become. With only 280 employee, the number which is only double of Hal Laboratory,or triple of Game Freak, they had produced so many hits that it is not even funny. While they had some blunders/flops like the infamous Gundam Age, Time Travelers and Girls Rpg.

They had been keep pumping out greatly succesful IP every generation. Layton series, Danball Senki series, Inazuma Eleven series, Fantasy Life and of course the absolute phenomenal success Youkai Watch series.

As long as they had Nintendo to give them brakes on how not to run their IP to the ground, i can see how they will both really supporting ecosystem.^~^
Bit of an overstatement, don't you think? SFV was just underwhelming in sales, not a bomba.
 
Yeah I wasn't referring to those few games.

Full price HD remasters, Mario Tennis, Star Fox, etc etc.

I'll give you Mario Tennis, but Star Fox Zero came with Guard ($15 on eShop) and the HD remasters were $50. I think WWHD has the effort put into it to warrant a $50 price point but not TPHD.
 

casiopao

Member
Bit of an overstatement, don't you think? SFV was just underwhelming in sales, not a bomba.

When Dragons Dogma one million sold is considered hugely underperformed, i can't see SFV being other than bomba here. Missing their target sales is surely not going to give SF any help here.

After their handling of the IPs in Smash, I feel fairly confident Nintendo could helm pretty successful turnaround revivals for both Mega Man and Street Fighter. And let's not kid ourselves, even if RE6 was bloated and missed it's insane targets the property is still massively popular. No question losing it would be a blow to PlayStation and Xbox. Then you have Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney which already fit seamlessly with Nintendo's core audience. Capcom also has experience in making scalable cross-platform middleware (MT Framework), which is an area Nintendo is probably looking like they may need some help. With Capcom it's not just the properties or the workforce but also the technical expertise they could bring.

And it's not like Level 5 isn't just as, if not more, notorious for speedy IP milk and churn. Professor Layton and Inazuma Eleven may have been huge at one point but they're essentially dead properties at this point. Yo-Kai Watch is doing great but we'll see if Level 5 can make it last, with two strikes so far I'm not that confident. Monster Hunter's outlasted all of them by comparison and it's even older.

I do agree Level 5 would be an easier company to absorb due to their size, but I'm not sure what Nintendo really gains here. They already secure nearly all their games with western publishing deals, they don't really need Hino and their other creatives, their properties are largely redundant, and their low workforce means they're reliant on contracting developers like Hand, Tose or Tri-ace to make their games for them. Why buy them?

While i agree on Nintendo ability to revive their classic/dormant IP into new and succesful IP, Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Luigi Mansion and Donkey Kong shows they had touch for sure.

But consider this. Is it worth to waste tons of resources to revitalize those IP when Nintendo themselves had huge amount of dormant IP which they themselves lack the time and people to make? I don't think it is really a feasible move for Nintendo to make here.

While on Level-5 side i agree that many of their older Ip has also beem damaged due to over milking, they are also a kind of company which is famous for keep getting hits again and again. Their risk taking moves is what Nintendo right now need as they are a bit more on the safe sides when they are producing softwares during this 3ds and wii u period.

In the end, both had pro and cons for me here.

Capcom
Pro
Huge employees pool
More experience on engine development.
Huge legacy IP pool to reach new gamers demographic

Cons
Overly bloated number of employees.
High turn over rate
Many of the older IP reputation had been tarnished.

Level-5
Pro
Small and highly efficient employees number
Highly adaptive with market in coming out with breakout hits.
Currently holding one of the biggest franchise in both anime and gaming industries.


Cons
Being popularly famous on taking risky moves and end up blowing in their face.
Lack of any vision on preserving their IP even though they do seems to be holding their Youkai IP really well this time.
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Subsidiaries (R&D Companies)
Nintendo Network Services Inc. (100%)
Nintendo Technology Development Inc. (100%)
Nintendo Software Technology Corp. (100%)
Nintendo European Research & Development SAS (100%)
1-Up Studio Inc. (100%)
Retro Studios Inc. (100%)
Mario Club Co., Ltd. (100%)
Monolith Software Inc. (97%)
ND Cube Inc. (97%)
Fukei Co., Ltd. (100%) <--- may be vacant

Affiliates (Brand Management / R&D Companies)
Warpstar Inc. (50%)
The Pokemon Company Inc. (32%)
Pux Corporation (27%)
First Avenue Entertainment LLLP (10%)
Ape Inc. (?%) <---- vacant shell company

Genius Sonority (19.5%) <---- Nintendo may have sold some shares as they haven't listed this information in any 2015/2016 reports.
 

casiopao

Member
Subsidiaries (R&D Companies)
Nintendo Network Services Inc. (100%)
Nintendo Technology Development Inc. (100%)
Nintendo Software Technology Corp. (100%)
Nintendo European Research & Development SAS (100%)
1-Up Studio Inc. (100%)
Retro Studios Inc. (100%)
Mario Club Co., Ltd. (100%)
Monolith Software Inc. (97%)
ND Cube Inc. (97%)
Fukei Co., Ltd. (100%) <--- may be vacant

Affiliates (Brand Management / R&D Companies)
Warpstar Inc. (50%)
The Pokemon Company Inc. (32%)
Pux Corporation (27%)
First Avenue Entertainment LLLP (10%)
Ape Inc. (?%) <---- vacant shell company

Genius Sonority (19.5%) <---- Nintendo may have sold some shares as they haven't listed this information in any 2015/2016 reports.

Hmm. I can't seems to remember what pux is doing for Ninty here.TT
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
When Dragons Dogma one million sold is considered hugely underperformed, i can't see SFV being other than bomba here. Missing their target sales is surely not going to give SF any help here.
That's because Dragon's Dogma had higher expectations. SFV was estimated to hit 2 million, & it didn't miss the mark by much. And with the Capcom Pro Tour still going strong, the Street Fighter franchise will be fine. No need to overreact. It'll get its 5+ years of support, & we'll see SFVI in the next generation.
 

casiopao

Member
That's because Dragon's Dogma had higher expectations. SFV was estimated to hit 2 million, & it didn't miss the mark by much. And with the Capcom Pro Tour still going strong, the Street Fighter franchise will be fine. No need to overreact. It'll get its 5+ years of support, & we'll see SFVI in the next generation.

DD had higher expectations and it does not reach it and we see DD got shelved.

SFV failed to reach its expectations which funnily is not that high and you said it didn't miss the mark by much? I am not overreacting here but going by most previous move by Capcom, they sure as hell is not going to be happy with the numbers.

Hell, i am not sure on that 5+ years support here. If the number does not really grows. I can't see Capcom really supporting the title all the way there.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
DD had higher expectations and it does not reach it and we see DD got shelved.

SFV failed to reach its expectations which funnily is not that high and you said it didn't miss the mark by much? I am not overreacting here but going by most previous move by Capcom, they sure as hell is not going to be happy with the numbers.

Hell, i am not sure on that 5+ years support here. If the number does not really grows. I can't see Capcom really supporting the title all the way there.
The difference is that Capcom is aware of why it missed the mark (lack of launch single-player content). They aren't blaming the strength of the franchise. Also, Capcom already confirmed that they're staying the course for the game's long-term support, so you have nothing to fear on that front. The franchise is definitely not dead, chill. It's far too soon to proclaim doom for the franchise. Then again, negativity isn't uncommon in the gaming community as of late.
 

casiopao

Member
The difference is that Capcom is aware of why it missed the mark (lack of launch single-player content). They aren't blaming the strength of the franchise. Also, Capcom already confirmed that they're staying the course for the game's long-term support, so you have nothing to fear on that front. The franchise is definitely not dead, chill. It's far too soon to proclaim doom for the franchise. Then again, negativity isn't uncommon in the gaming community as of late.

Capcom have always aware of the problem here. dlc problem and they said they understand till the replay it again.

I am not saying the franchise is totally dead. Just it will be dormant for quite some time till they had new ideas and plan on how to do the next SF title.
 
After their handling of the IPs in Smash, I feel fairly confident Nintendo could helm pretty successful turnaround revivals for both Mega Man and Street Fighter.

Keep in mind that Nintendo themselves have nothing to do with the way Smash is made, that's all on Sakurai who technically doesn't work at the company. Unless you're saying you want to see Mega Man Uprising or something happen...
 

AntMurda

Member
Keep in mind that Nintendo themselves have nothing to do with the way Smash is made, that's all on Sakurai who technically doesn't work at the company. Unless you're saying you want to see Mega Man Uprising or something happen...

You know Nintendo owns the engine right? You know Nintendo producers / staff worked on Smash right? Right?
 
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