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Is Sonic a joke to you?

Alcotholic said:
This guy has some good criticisms of the franchise and ways to fix them
https://youtu.be/I6ak3ebBep0
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I understand that sometimes you need to start from the ground up to reinvigorate life into a tired IP but good gravy this looks absolutely awful. Looks like generic indie fodder, if you ask me.

I'd rather people give this guy a listen. Actually criticizes and analyzes the Sonic series piece by piece and then provides a sensible solution in the third part.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLr-C4V5-8-PdIXz5rePFmw5CB3R7RPe34
 
Problem is the Sonic branding is so bad I can't get myself to care about the series' good titles. It's strange things like this that narrow down my plethora of gaming options. In other words: there's too many good games so I need petty reasons to decide which ones to play.
 
RK128 said:
I'm surprised you even made this thread knowing this; people here are very torn on Sonic and my Retrospective series didn't change public views of the IP. Many here hate it, just like other platforming mascots. But that is a mindset I personally feel on this forum, so could be dead wrong.

I hope the anniversary game fixes things but not expecting it too. Outside of maybe making the announcement thread, not saying a damn thing about the title, as it will only lead to more sour comments on the series.

In the past, this never bothered me much. But now, knowing how other platforming icons are viewed on this forum, I can't help but feel sour on even talking about the genre on NeoGaf.
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I knew most of GAF don't like Sonic but I wanted to see to what extent, there certainly are a few of us that love the series but it seems some people dislike it without even playing any of the games, or at least any good ones.
 
Indigo Rush said:
I understand that sometimes you need to start from the ground up to reinvigorate life into a tired IP but good gravy this looks absolutely awful. Looks like generic indie fodder, if you ask me.

I'd rather people give this guy a listen. Actually criticizes and analyzes the Sonic series piece by piece and then provides a sensible solution in the third part.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLr-C4V5-8-PdIXz5rePFmw5CB3R7RPe34
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I haven't watched the first two parts, so those could be fine for all I know. But from what I watched of it, the third part is the same sort of backseat game design nonsense as in the Good Blood video.
 
Warxard said:
If you're going off and claiming that the original Sonic trilogy was never good then I see no reason to ever listen to your shitty ass opinion for the foreseeable future.
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I like this guy.

But yeah, I feel like most statements in this topic are hyperbole. Yeah, Sonic was good, had troubles with transitioning into 3D, and then plummeted into glitchy, melodramatic madness by 2005-2006. That's all true.

It's also literally been a decade since then, and during this past decade there's been 4 main titles in a row that range between decent to great, and yes that does include Unleashed (I know you lot judged a book by it's cover with that game so don't gimme that "this is bullshit" garbage :v).

The times that Sonic has been it's poorest is when they focused hardest on short-sighted marketability instead of quality. Heroes' gigantic cast of characters and obnoxious tone is a product of that, Shadow and 06's spiral into grimy realistic melodrama were the product of that, the Werehog and sword Sonic stuff were very bizarre and misplaced products of that, Sonic 4's attempt to blindly cater to nostalgia without even understanding how the OG games worked was part of that, and Sonic Boom's attempt to reach western audiences was a result of that.

Sonic Team just needs to be let loose to take their time and make a good game instead of Sega interfering, because if not for their parent company being the textbook definition of executive meddling and corporate mismanagement, ST could do more than good again. Proof? Colors and Generations, and neither of those games had very long development times. I'm sure they could do even better with more time, which is apparently what they're getting for this upcoming title.
 
TimmiT said:
I haven't watched the first two parts, so those could be fine for all I know. But from what I watched of it, the third part is the same sort of backseat game design nonsense as in the Good Blood video.
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....Why haven't you watched the first two parts and only watched the third? Doesn't it make sense to start from the first part to follow his logic?

Honestly the first two are far more important than the third. I don't even agree with all of Shay's ideas, but its miles more in line with an actual Sonic game than GoodBloods garbage
 
it's a sad story. it's a story about hubris and man's weakness

not all companies have the benefit of visionaries at the helm. it's an example of how fucked console gaming might have seemed had Zelda/Mario screwed the transition to 3D.
 
Ten years ago, Sonic was a joke to me.

The last decade has been about getting a good laugh seeing how long it took people I know to finally come to accept that Sonic had been a joke for a long time; purely tangential comedy with no joy to be found in the franchise itself.
 
tbh, i've never been a huge fan. I thought the genesis games were cool enough (esp 3 with the snowboarding section), but the series' descent into jokedom was no great loss to me.
 
Imperfected said:
Ten years ago, Sonic was a joke to me.

The last decade has been about getting a good laugh seeing how long it took people I know to finally come to accept that Sonic had been a joke for a long time; purely tangential comedy with no joy to be found in the franchise itself.
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Man, this is brutal coming after so many melodramatic posts from distraught fans. I laughed pretty hard.
 
To me yeah, meaning that I treat it like one because I get dissed for being a fan.
Still, the karting games and most of the latest releases are solid.

Most fun thing for me is that people say "oh they should just go a good game, like a Sonic Adventure 3!", like Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 were any good.
 
TimmiT said:
I was first linked to the third one. :V
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Well shucks.

Give the first two a watch, they're far more constructive. The first two parts are about how Sonic's been inconsistent and what the other core issues are (with a semi-retrospective edge to it) and the third part was more of an example of how he'd go about addressing those concerns. Honestly Part 3 was not the best way to start.

I mean, it's about 3 hours long putting both together, so no BadBlood (see what I did there) if you don't have the time or patience if you didn't like the vibe of part 3. Just saying that 1 and 2 won't be the same format.
 
Sonic isn't even relevant enough to be a joke. It's just another cash'n grab franchise to me and hasn't meant anything to the world of gaming in almost 20 years.
 
It's been a joke after Sega went third party.

They don't have a clue what a Sonic game should be or what made the original trilogy the classic games they are today.

They just throw shit at the wall and see if something sticks . Sometimes it works, most of the time it doesn't.
 
Nah. I tend to enjoy the (decent quality) games regardless of how the series is perceived. If I had listened to the somewhat vocal opinion that the series is shitty, I'd have missed out on fun games like Colors and Generations.
 
I don't think this disrespect you're feeling has anything to do with Sonic, OP. It's how the franchise games have hit a downward slope for the better part of almost a decade -- if not more.

So yeah: blame the games, not the character.
 
As for the actual thread subject, Sonic being a joke, well I mean at times, yeah. Most of the time, honestly. But it wasn't always like that, however hindsight is indeed 20/20 and problems started to show right from the first Adventure game, and I'm not talking about glitches or camera control issues.

Sonic's a joke when it's a half-baked spin-off, a glitchy platformer or overly melodramatic (or cheesy) story. Sonic's a joke when he's re-designed for a Western audience despite the original Sonic already being designed for the Western audience. Sonic's a joke when the parent company forces a rushed release date at the expense of quality and polish.

Sonic is not a joke when it's doing what it does best, and that can be seen in games like Sonic 1, 2, CD, 3 & Knuckles, a few glimpses of the Adventure games, the Advance-Rush games and even somewhat in Unleashed, Colors and Generations: letting the player run, jump, dash and roll around as a blue hedgehog to explore vibrant and imaginative worlds, being exciting without taking itself too seriously, beating up a fat clownish bald guy who invents various technicolor animal-themed googly-eyed robots who also happen to have lethal death lasers and chainsaws attached to them, and just having a fun time blowing up said robots, collecting shiny rings and gems and rocketing through loops, ramps and half-pipes because who doesn't want to do that? Honestly? I personally can't think of anything more appealing than that.

I think the question "is Sonic a joke" is incorrect, and it should instead be "should Sonic be a joke," and if you ask me, Sonic shouldn't be a joke.

Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric was so awful I laughed. I don't wanna laugh anymore. Here's hoping the big 2017 game delivers.
 
RK128 said:
Yay, people saying the series you love is horrible despite that not being the case.....so funny. I hate this forum sometimes.
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I'm completely fine with other adults disagreeing with me on mostly subjective topics. I'll argue about stuff like consumer rights or diversity in the industry, but if people don't like a franchise I do, why should I become invested in that? It's their money. It's not like the posters here are the ones shitting out waste like Sonic Boom. They're just laughing as the burning car rolls to a stop.
 
No. It isn't a joke to me.

It's had dips in quality, there's no denying that. But I still really enjoy a lot of the games that have been released over the last 15 years or so.

If all of these experimental/gimmick based games eventually lead them to figuring things out and producing more consistent games like Colors/Generations on a regular basis, then I can be patient. They've already shown me that they can recapture the spirit of what made the games great to begin with. They just need to keep going with it. Hopefully that's what they're doing.
 
Zombine said:
O97G1_s-200x150.gif




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absolutely
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Kind of looks like batman.
 
I mean, kinda?
I've played and tried most games in the series and the only games that were decent or better were the racing games, for the rest the series always felt like a below average series that is popular for some reason. Only aspect I like about the other games would be some of the soundtracks I guess.
Stuff like the twitter account doesnt do it any favours.
 
RK128 said:
Yay, people saying the series you love is horrible despite that not being the case.....so funny.
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It's their opinion. For them, that's pretty much the case. What's more funny is you trying to defend the series as if it gave birth to you.
 
Sonic, as a series, has some great games along with a lot of stinkers. A lot of the stinkers are due to rushed projects, half-baked gimmicks, or a combination of the two. When he's shined, however, the games were among the best in the class. If anything, Sega needs to step back, figure out what Sonic is, and work on making the best games they can out of it. Personally, I figure Sonic is a much better 2D game than a 3D one.

As for the fanbase? Part of it is glorious, mostly it's just goddamn weird. But yes, it's absolutely a joke.
 
RK128 said:
I grew up with the series, so sorry if I come off as a bit defensive.
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I get it. Although i don't know what games were the ones you grew up with. Was it the Genesis games? The Dreamcast games? Was it even later?

I also grew up with the series, it was my favorite as a child/teen during the 16bit generation. I even participated in many "Mario vs Sonic" wars at the time and always supported Sonic. I still believe Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the best 2D platformer ever.

And that is exactly why i hate it as much as i do now. There was never such a huge collapse in standards in a series for me, ever.
 
No. The real joke is how horribly managed some Sonic games are since Sega went 3rd party in terms of product release strategy and development commitments. It all makes me feel disappointed about Sonic games but really no further than that, to a tangent such that I'd feel Sonic is a joke, no.
 
nkarafo said:
It's their opinion. For them, that's pretty much the case. What's more funny is you trying to defend the series as if it gave birth to you.
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No one would give him shit for defending a series people don't go out of their way to hate. :v

Talking about something isn't really fun when it's spent constantly shitting on the subject, especially when no one wants or cares to say anything positive on the matter (and if they do, then they're fanboys or whatever).

I get his perspective and yours. I grew up on the classics, and I think Sonic CD and Sonic 3 & Knuckles are some of the best games ever made, while the series past that has had some EXTREMELY shit moments. But I also think the Adventure games had really good things going for them despite their flaws, the Advance/Rush games were quality, and Unleashed/Colors/Generations were all pretty excellent.

The fact that people walk over any of those latter games' positive traits (heck even the classic games are looked down upon now) is what makes talking about Sonic here so exhausting.
 
Never really cared about Sonic, so it's always been sort of a joke to me. However it's become a larger joke as time goes on, particularly due to some of the fandom that surrounds the franchise.
 
The Sonic games were at their peak during the 16-bit era. And while all of the platformers released during that time were solid, it's only the original game that really stands out to me and is my favorite.

It all went downhill after Sonic & Knuckles. I had some fun with Adventure 1 and 2 at the time, but those are not games I'd want to go back to. Just about everything else (3D) I played after SA2 was a joke. Sonic 4 was crap. I did get Generations but have yet to sit down and play it.

That said, the Sonic/Sega kart racing games that Sumo Digital did were amazing. Most fun I've had with anything Sonic-related in 3D, easily.
 
Sonic became a joke to me when they started adding different color Sonics with slight variations in design.

Shadow was more than enough.

The good characters of the series:
Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Metal Sonic, Amy, Shadow, Omega.

Honorable Mentions:
Rouge, Big, Vector.

Bad characters:
Everyone else.


Even so, over time they've started dragging these characters through the mud. About the only ones who are still clean after all of it is Eggman, Metal Sonic, and Omega. Two of them are machines and one is the primary villain. Who knows how long they go until Metal Sonic becomes their friend and Omega finds a way to become a real boy.
 
Yes

It's been a rough couple of decades for sonic fans. I make jokes all the time, but I am sad for them. It really is a trash series with more bad games than good now.
 
Warxard said:
If you're going off and claiming that the original Sonic trilogy was never good then I see no reason to ever listen to your shitty ass opinion for the foreseeable future.
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I feel the same way lol. I can't roll my eyes harder, hearing people say Sonic was never good.

RK128 said:
Yay, people saying the series you love is horrible despite that not being the case.....so funny. I hate this forum sometimes.
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You really shouldn't let's other people's negativity and opinions get you down. Ain't shit going on in this thread that neither of us haven't heard before. Same old shit. You love Sonic, I love Sonic, that's all that matters in the end. And this thread won't be changing that for me.
 
I still like Sonic in general, but there's no denying that it's been a joke of a series for a long time. You can argue that he started to go downhill as early as SA1, but personally I'd say the "joke status" started with Shadow the Hedgehog. That's the point where Sega started releasing absolutely dire Sonic games with no redeeming factors other than how laughably bad they were. They might release a few good ones here and there, but you can always be sure that they won't be able to resist from slapping another crappy new gimmick into the next game and fixing what wasn't broken.
 
It's a joke to me. When the most entertaining things coming out of the franchise are memes and its twitter account, there's not much to be excited about. I've never been hooked on the Sonic cycle, but it's definitely an interesting study in how strongly people love and hate their favorite brands.
 
Thrashinuva said:
Even so, over time they've started dragging these characters through the mud. About the only ones who are still clean after all of it is Eggman, Metal Sonic, and Omega. Two of them are machines and one is the primary villain. Who knows how long they go until Metal Sonic becomes their friend and Omega finds a way to become a real boy.
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Are you describing a children's TV cartoon show or something?

Man, when Sonic games were good nobody cared about shit like this.
 
RK128 said:
Yay, people saying the series you love is horrible despite that not being the case.....so funny. I hate this forum sometimes.
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Tbh man maybe just bow outta the thread if it's upsetting you. Not trying to be a dick, but the public perception of Sonic isn't something you should let yourself get worked up over!
 
Sonic The Hedgehog is The Simpsons of the video game world. It's been a bad series for longer than it's been a good series at this point.
 
Mousnis said:
Are you describing a children's TV cartoon show or something?

Man, when Sonic games were good nobody cared about shit like this.
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It almost sounds like the Sonic cartoon doesn't it? I specifically remember two robot enemies that were subject to various similar shenanigans.

I think by now we've come to expect more from cartoons, and wouldn't accept that old cartoon as a standard to go by. After all those two robots, Scratch and Grounder, never made it into the games.
 
Thrashinuva said:
It almost sounds like the Sonic cartoon doesn't it? I specifically remember two robot enemies that were subject to various similar shenanigans.

I think by now we've come to expect more from cartoons, and wouldn't accept that old cartoon as a standard to go by. After all those two robots, Scratch and Grounder, never made it into the games.
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The Sonic cartoon was it's own thing. It's a different medium and doesn't necessarily cater to the same audience. I loved the games on the Mega Drive but i thought the cartoon was stupid. So when i criticize the games i only take into account the games. Besides, lore and story was like the last thing people would look for in those games.

Same could be said for other games, like Mortal Kombat for instance. Even though it was a violent game not meant for kids, there was a kids show. Again, loved the games for their gameplay, moves, fatalities, etc but never cared for the cartoon in the slightest.
 
RK128 said:
Yay, people saying the series you love is horrible despite that not being the case.....so funny. I hate this forum sometimes.
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Whoa man, take a step back and relax for a little bit. If you love Sonic games, that's good. Keep loving the series, and just state what it is about the series that you like. Thing is, don't expect to change the opinions of those who think the series is a joke/garbage/etc. And they shouldn't change your opinion, either.

I take that approach to stay cool and stay sane. There are several pockets of people here on GAF that really dislike games that I like. For example, some of the more vocal, hardcore fans of the "character action" genre (Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, and the like) criticize the Batman Arkham series in what I see as a very condescending way. But you know what? I try to not let it get to me. I state my case, I hear theirs, and at the end of the day, I'm not overly concerned about what they think about the Arkham games because I know *I* will keep being a huge fan of those games.

TL;DR. Keep your head up, dude. If it's getting to you, try to take a break from this thread.
 
nkarafo said:
The Sonic cartoon was it's own thing. It's a different medium and doesn't necessarily cater to the same audience. I loved the games on the Mega Drive but i thought the cartoon was stupid.

Same could be said for other games, like Mortal Kombat for instance. Even though it was a violent game not meant for kids, there was a kids show. Again, loved the games for their gameplay, moves, fatalities, etc but never cared for the cartoon in the slightest.
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The point was that the game is turning into a children's cartoon that doesn't cater to the same audience it used to.

The comparison of old Sonic vs. new Sonic is the exact same comparison as old Sonic vs. cartoon Sonic.
 
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