Less than unlikely.
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Is Support For VITA already dying? [Use the new thread]
- Thread starter Fezan
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Less than unlikely.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
All I know is that we shall know the fate of Vita in about 1.5 months, right? If nothing memorable is announced, can we say that it will fail or would I be foolish to believe that? Can't wait though, E3 2012!
They'll lose much more money if the vita dies already in some months.
They should really offer Capcom/SE/Rockstar/other big Publishers some huge marketing-campaigns for 2-3 big exclusives.
The games won't come alone if the vita doesn't start to sell.
Shai-Tan
Banned
I haven't been impressed by the quality of shooters thus far but Unit 13 did illustrate how good controls can be. It feels better than some of the ps3 shooters I have played. The only worry is in aim mode like with holo sight the game has noticeable frame drop that makes it choppy which raises some questions about performance. After playing Uncharted I was a bit worried about the quality of the analogs but it seems now it's just the game having terrible controls like U3.
I think (good) multiplayer is the way to go for shooters (and several other genre) anyway. How it plays is far more important for multiplayer than how it looks. This is long term as the current Vita model is kind of weak in the online aspects but if they aren't retarded the next model will be more power efficient, have 4g, etc (not that most aren't playing at home anyway)
They also need to be open to change to attract games with a different economic model, like why can't we have something like Super Monday Night Combat on Vita? Or even Orcs Must Die 2 (w/co-op). It's not all big budget blockbusters that will attract people. Consoles missed out on Dungeon Defenders updates because the platform holders are obsessed with control. Dungeon Defenders is a bit ridiculous with their almost daily updates which annoy people even on PC but it also illustrates the problem with Sony again releasing a console lacking automatic updates. Thing should download and install updates while I have it plugged in. Make it optional with PS+ whatever. This is a lot to ask of Sony who can't even do basic online features without making it drop connection every few minutes but this is something they need to work on now if they are going to attract some of the better games. Fix the hardware and fix the platform and they won't have to worry so much about money hatting games or wasting so much money on first party
I think (good) multiplayer is the way to go for shooters (and several other genre) anyway. How it plays is far more important for multiplayer than how it looks. This is long term as the current Vita model is kind of weak in the online aspects but if they aren't retarded the next model will be more power efficient, have 4g, etc (not that most aren't playing at home anyway)
They also need to be open to change to attract games with a different economic model, like why can't we have something like Super Monday Night Combat on Vita? Or even Orcs Must Die 2 (w/co-op). It's not all big budget blockbusters that will attract people. Consoles missed out on Dungeon Defenders updates because the platform holders are obsessed with control. Dungeon Defenders is a bit ridiculous with their almost daily updates which annoy people even on PC but it also illustrates the problem with Sony again releasing a console lacking automatic updates. Thing should download and install updates while I have it plugged in. Make it optional with PS+ whatever. This is a lot to ask of Sony who can't even do basic online features without making it drop connection every few minutes but this is something they need to work on now if they are going to attract some of the better games. Fix the hardware and fix the platform and they won't have to worry so much about money hatting games or wasting so much money on first party
A rebound is always possible, but I agree that chances of a revival become less and less likely as time goes on. E3 will indeed be very telling.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Vita won't sell without any significant third party games coming, and no significant third party games will be coming unless the Vita starts selling and/or Sony starts doling out moneyhats (which they can't afford at the moment). I don't know what Sony could do with the Vita. It seems like moneyhats is the only real way out, but they can't really afford that, so.. I dunno.
I don't know if thats entirely accurate though, they just spent a ton of money picking up another music label. If Sony really wants to make it's gaming division one of its three "pillars" of the company I would think they would be more willing to allocate rescources to securing 3rd party support.
If they pick the right IPs than I would not think they would have to go and grab a bunch of them, they just have to pick the right games that will drive interest in the Vita. It's one of the least likely situations of course but for instance if Sony gave Square a bunch of money for an FFVII Vita Remake, I would think it would create alot of interest all by itself. Same for it's own version of Monster Hunter. It's really more about securing the right support for now, rather than a ton of crap no one will care about.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
A FFVII remake would probably be so expensive it most likely wouldn't be worth it. I could see them moneyhatting a MH game, which shouldn't be too expensive since Capcom would just rehash PS2 assets anyway, although I don't know how much that would help the Vita outside Japan. Besides, isn't that Soul game for Vita supposed to be a MH clone?
I was just using FFVII Remake as an example, but I do think that it's the type of game that would instantly turn alot of things around for the Vita considering how many people already want it to begin with, plus it's "iconic" status in gaming would make it hard to ignore, if you could only get it on Vita it would drive sales easily.
I agree though that MH would probably be easier for alot of different reasons, it would not matter a ton if this was mainly a Japan thing either since they already (might) have games coming that will interest the western markets. Stuff like COD, Bioshock, Killzone, Madden, etc could drive interest on the western side, while stuff like MH drives the East. Like I said it's just about getting those select IP that will drive interest in the masses.
As for Soul Sacrifice, It's possible from what we know currently that it would be an MH clone, but we just don't know enough about it yet to judge I think. Alot of questions still out there for that games, but Sony obviously feels that it's something special considering the 6 page Ad in Famitsu, and the conference for it in May.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Sony totally ignored the PSP with first party games at its first E3 and that system turned out ok.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
But think about the hype they were getting, especially after the success of the PS2. The Playstation brand was king in those days.
Following your hypothetical scenario...
Let's say there is nothing worthwhile to show at this years e3, which by your terms the Vita is seen as a failure, what are the series of events that will follow? Do you see Sony discontinuing the platform? if so, when will they do it, how much will it cost them, and how long will it take?
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
If nothing of value or importance is announced at E3, and we conclude that the Vita is dead, I still think Sony will throw it a bone or two with exclusive first party games, and just let it die off slowly to sell as many units as possible.
If Sony only made those deals now, the games would be a couple years off. I think that'd be too late to have the needed impact.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
Let me say that I wholeheartedly want the Vita to succeed. I've been wanting I since January 27 last year and I can't wait to play Resistance and Gravity. However the hypothetical scenario I proposed is just a thought. I love the Vita and I wish the greatest games arrive for it.
If doomsday does happen, then I think Sony will release a few PS3 IPs for it next year and then just leave it be as it dies off.
If doomsday does happen, then I think Sony will release a few PS3 IPs for it next year and then just leave it be as it dies off.
With all the high end XBLA, PSN & smaller steam titles over the years and still coming out it boggles my mind why where isn't a huge line up of digitally distributable titles coming out for the ps vita.
It's understandable they can't just make high quality games out of no where but surely they could have funded a lot of ports of already developed titles or are in arrangement with porting smaller popular titles.
Off the top of my head:
Shank 2
Trine 2
NBA Jam
Toy Soldiers
Trials Evolution
Sine Mora
Bastion
Shoot Many Robots
Bloodrayne Betrayal
Yet the only little neat title IMO on psn for 'small titles' is Super Star dust...
I want one but it's not doing it for me yet.....
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It's understandable they can't just make high quality games out of no where but surely they could have funded a lot of ports of already developed titles or are in arrangement with porting smaller popular titles.
Off the top of my head:
Shank 2
Trine 2
NBA Jam
Toy Soldiers
Trials Evolution
Sine Mora
Bastion
Shoot Many Robots
Bloodrayne Betrayal
Yet the only little neat title IMO on psn for 'small titles' is Super Star dust...
I want one but it's not doing it for me yet.....
.
bigtroyjon
Member
They aren't buying EMI on their own, some big money investment groups are partnered with Sony. They are also going to be selling off many valuable assets to please regulators.
I'm not sure i'd say it looks silly, there are some great looking games coming for it with MK, Gravity Rush, Retro City, LBP, DJ MAX, Sound Shapes, MGSHD, Persona 4, etc.
I do agree though that right now they are lacking titles right now that will drive excitment in Japan. The biggest titles they have "announced" right now are all major western IP, and could drive interest if they actually come, but most of them won't gain much traction in the eastern markets I think.
It's always been alittle strange to me that Japanese games can become very popular here in the west, but the same is almost never true for western games becoming successful in Japan.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Like the PS3 is dead, right? After all, PS3 has little to no games the first 2 years.
timetokill
Banned
The PS3's game situation was nowhere near as dire as the Vita's currently is.
To be fair, Acid came out early in the PSP's life. It was the first Metal Gear game on the system and it didn't have to deal with the piracy problem as much. The PSP also had retail space in the US.
When Peace Walker was released, it was a totally different market. The system had been hacked to hell and back, it was pretty much dead in the US.
Its really hard to just look at sales numbers and come to that conclusion.
Not to mention that they will actually be getting something for their money. (which doesn't mean that I think it was a smart acquisition, because I don't). But they will actually own a vast catalog of music for their money.
Dropping a small fortune on FF7R, or MH3GPortable, or DQ11, or whatever else you want to imagine - they still don't own anything. They get a game on their system, but SE still owns FF and DQ, Capcom still owns MH, and Sony is out a boatload of cash for something that may or may not actually change the fortunes of their system. And if it doesn't work out in the end, they have nothing to sell to recoup their investment. If the EMI thing doesn't work out, they always have a catalog of music that they can turn around and sell.
There's a reason that Sony made a wholesale switch away from moneyhats several years ago. Building your own portfolio of brands that you own and control is far, far more valuable than renting someone else's stuff. Unfortunately, Sony has done a lousy job of building up a sizable stable of mass-market brands these last number of years.
I guess we'll see CoD, Bioshock, Killzone for Vita and similar - however I don't expect much until Tokyo Games Show for Vita-releases from someone else than Sony - because the big western third-party publishers wich can afford to be at E3 seems ready to die, and don't have any interest in making new IP's anymore, and certainly not on handhelds. :-/
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
The PS3 had a rough start, but it was never quite as dire as the Vita's current situation is. Sony was behind the PS3 from day 1, but they just dumped the Vita on the street like an unwanted puppy and seems like they just don't care all that much. It's baffling.
AceBandage
Banned
I wouldn't expect Bioshock to be shown anytime soon. If ever.
DangerousDave
Member
The dream scenario is to find finally a way to create first party games that sell and make people buy consoles, instead of relying always in third party exclusives.
Wait, what?
The one thing that Vita's got going for it, is that indeed the stuff that's coming now are stuff that should have been in planning for the last couple years. Assuming that devs didn't shovel the projects altogether, these will make or break Vita's situation. E3 will really be its final test -- if anyone thinks they can gain much more than a minor slice of the pie in Japan in its current situation (consistent 1:6 sales, lagging by 4.5m+ units, previous biggest franchise no longer an exclusive) they're being delusional.
How much money would it take to moneyhat anything else at this point? Could they even do a moneyhat? It's one thing to gain an exclusive in a relatively even PS3 vs 360 type situation, it's quite another when there's such a disparity in market share. No matter how good a game they release the current # of units, and stiff competition from AAA titles in existing consoles, are going to be a limiting factor on number of games sold. Brand image is extremely important, especially when competing games in the same genre are typically just as good if not better, and very low sales are going to do quite a bit of harm in that regard. Dunno how many companies are willing to take that risk and at what cost.
Japan's never been huge on FPS's, western design philosophy of realism realism realism doesn't quite click, and western games have had a bad rap for years before the whole HD gaming rush. And let's not forget with the last one, mainstream core gaming in Japan is portable now... and how many excellent handheld titles are coming out of western publishers today? It takes time for devs to gain the trust of users, and with rising sales of some games like MW3 it does look like perceptions are gradually changing.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
They dumped it on the market with a few games from their most well-known IPs (Uncharted and Wipeout specifically) and seems to have taken a laissez-faire approach to it after that, like they just don't care about it. They did more or less the same thing with the Move; some half-assed first party support for 'core' games (and a bunch of minigames and casual games), and then.. nothing.
Any game console release is like that. I don't see any different from 3DS, XBOX360, etc launch with vita launch. Right now they are trying to fill the gap with some releases like Gravity Rush in june instead of now.
I don't think Sony literally see the vita as unwanted dog.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
No, I don't really think they literally see it as an unwanted dog, but you get my point; they seemingly aren't doing much to improve its situation. There's Gravity Rush coming, but I wouldn't call that game a system seller. As for the DS, 3DS and 360, we knew there were games coming. For the Vita? We don't know about anything besides Gravity Rush and that Soul game.
CadetMahoney
Member
Western devs see that North America is the most important market and the most profitable, so no ones really tried to 1-up the Japanese at their own different tastes, a smaller market.
Something like Mortal Kombat will do well in the USA but be hardly touched in Japan.
When 360 was launched there was virtually no game announced. By the time we didn't know DMC and other games were going to be multiplatform and Capcom was the only publisher who was majorly supporting X360.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
People knew Halo would be coming, that was enough to sell the 360. The Vita doesn't have a Halo-calibre game on the horizon that we know of.
You know what I'm talking about.
We will see this year's e3 as whether or not vita could be viable platform or not. So far I think sony is doing everything it could. Although I think they should really hire better advertising company.
Gran Turismo, GTA and FF?
bigtroyjon
Member
Nope, they had pretty much every publisher on board at E3 in 2005, including having Don Mattrick(who was president of EA at the time) come out on stage to show off all the EA games that would be coming out for the 360.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I know you were talking about third party games specifically, but Nintendo and Microsoft have the luxury of having IPs that alone can sell an impressive amount of consoles. Sony, even if they've tried hard this gen, haven't found that IP quite yet, besides Gran Turismo.
I like the EU Vita ad, but it does a poor job selling the hardware and what it's capable of to people who aren't already in the know. The US ad is just shit. And yeah, E3 will basically be make or break for the Vita in the West.
PSP was a success in HW sales, but software.. yeah, no. And GT PSP was just trash anyway.
SkyMasterson
Member
Well PSP had those too.
I guess it just depends whether you think the PSP was a success or not.
I thought it was rather successful in terms of systems sold, but software sales were another story.
ScreenSplitter
Member
It's been out for like, two months.
But it has to be said, the 3DS had a lot of big titles in the pipeline even when it was struggling financially.
But it has to be said, the 3DS had a lot of big titles in the pipeline even when it was struggling financially.
Dreams-Visions
Member
e3 can't come fast enough.
bigtroyjon
Member
People are just trying to get Sony to follow their lead but it's not working.
Vita seems to suffer from the same problem as PS3 in its early years.
PS3 suffered from the facts that 1) some Japanese devs were slow to move to next gen and kept on developing PS2 games and 2) the ones that did move on from PS2 didn't move on to PS3 development, but went ahead to develop 360, Wii, DS & PSP games.
PSP's Japanese support was really great and now those same Japanese developers have trouble moving on from PSP development and the few that have moved on & who were major supporters of PSP (Capcom, Square Enix) have (almost) exclusively moved on to 3DS.
PS3 suffered from the facts that 1) some Japanese devs were slow to move to next gen and kept on developing PS2 games and 2) the ones that did move on from PS2 didn't move on to PS3 development, but went ahead to develop 360, Wii, DS & PSP games.
PSP's Japanese support was really great and now those same Japanese developers have trouble moving on from PSP development and the few that have moved on & who were major supporters of PSP (Capcom, Square Enix) have (almost) exclusively moved on to 3DS.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
That's a pretty good view on the overall scope of things. Maybe Sony will bounce back with their new IPs like Gravity, Soul Sacrifice, and some others.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I could see Soul Sacrifice (thanks for reminding me of its full name BTW) doing at least decently in Japan, if it's a MH clone. How did Gravity Rush/Daze do in Japan?
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