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Is TAS version of Batman the best version of Batman?
- Thread starter Spinluck
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hydragonwarrior
Member
Yeah, Freeze devolved into a maniac for crappy reasons as well. I forget how Clayface turned out.
bishopcruz
Member
Actually I kinda love the arc of DCAU Bruce. It pretty much shows him getting worn down by having done this for so long. Realize, by the time TAS starts he's been Batman for near on a decade. By TNBA it's been another few years, and by JL he's probably been Bats for nearly 20 years. Shit broke him over time. The stuff with the Joker and Tim, the mistake with Barbara, Diana leaving. Yeah some of that was added later, but I did like the idea that he just pushed everyone away over time. Terry helped him care about life and people again, and by the end of Batman Beyond, he's mended fences with his old family, and he's no longer alone. It's a beautiful arc for him really.
At the beginning, it should. It just makes the eventual recreation of the family in Revenge of the Joker and the comics that much better.
Never a huge fan of Bruce/Babs, but it makes a certain kind of sense. While Dick was head over heels for Barbara, and she was pretty into him. The animated series pointed out often that she still had a mad on for Batman. Once he let her in to the family, her relationship with Dick was doomed, especially when he snapped (for pretty good reason.) Bruce and Barbara were partners for years. It makes sense that with her going after him for so long, something would eventually happen. Bruce isn't a monk. And IIRC, some horrific shit went down before they got together.
Choppasmith
Member
Don't forget DuckTales, Reboot, Animaniacs (and it's sister shows) and fairly recently Motorcity. I feel like she's a real under-appreciated contribution to DCAU's success. Always love hearing her cameos in the recent DC movies. In the BatB game she voices the computer, and they even threw in a little Easter Egg where if you wait a moment she'll say "Please hurry and make a selection, Batman, the wait is killing me"
Yeah sure. But...
Unpopular opinion: Batman Beyond > Batman TAS
I just dig the futuristic high school setting, seeing Wayne as a mentor figure, all the improvements to the suit, AND THE JOKER GANG!.
Also, Terry + Dana made for a great couple.
I still remember when this first came out, I still can't unsee the similarity to Squall and Rinoa from Final Fantasy VIII.
This just makes me sad. It's like seeing someone saying they don't get music as anything other than sound of random instruments.
This GIF cracks me up, but I'll always have a soft spot for The Underdwellers. It surprised me to learn a lot of fans hated it. The gun control message was kinda hokey, but considering I had an abusive stepfather at the time, I always wished Batman could save me too. So I have a sort of emotional attachment to it.
Man this gif is PERFECT for naysayers!
Perfect Blue
Banned
Yes.
And it's a damn travesty we haven't got it on blu-ray yet. The DVD copies have so much print damage.
And it's a damn travesty we haven't got it on blu-ray yet. The DVD copies have so much print damage.
Choppasmith
Member
Yes.
And it's a damn travesty we haven't got it on blu-ray yet. The DVD copies have so much print damage.
Timm said he prefers the original, messy print over a proper restoration. A sign of the times or something like that. Who knows, maybe WB will force his hand, or maybe he's changed his mind since then.
Andodalf
Banned
Love it, Absolutely amazing. It's my favorite "young" Batman, and has the BEST villains. So good.
But I prefer Scott Snyder's Batman for an older one, one who is on his forth robin. The emotional weight and responsibility is palpable. His interactions with The bat-family and joker will be remembered forever.
TAS joker is goat tho. As is TAS every single villian.
But I prefer Scott Snyder's Batman for an older one, one who is on his forth robin. The emotional weight and responsibility is palpable. His interactions with The bat-family and joker will be remembered forever.
TAS joker is goat tho. As is TAS every single villian.
But that's part of the charm!Yes.
And it's a damn travesty we haven't got it on blu-ray yet. The DVD copies have so much print damage.
Not just best Batman, but best Bruce Wayne. Lots of nice little character moments that really nailed that he was molding the public perception of Bruce just as much as he was for Batman. One great example is the Robin origin episode, where the circus announcers cast the spotlight showing Bruce Wayne is in attendance, and then he fumbles his popcorn in surprise and gives an embarrased grin and wave.
More layered characterization in that one moment than in the entirety of most Batman stuff. So much Batman media does a terrible job of making you believe no one could figure out Batman was Bruce Wayne, whereas TAS did an excellent job of presenting a guy that's legitimately cultivating two personas that no one would associate with one another.
(Note that this doesn't apply so much to Gotham Knights afterwards, where Bruce was redesigned as a stone-faced, steely-eyed businessman with mechanically perfect posture and a perfect black suit with angles that could cut. What a tone-deaf direction to go after TAS' pitch-perfect framing of the duality Wayne was playing with his public faces. Conroy totally dropped the congenial, somewhat oafish Bruce voice of TAS from his repertoire entirely, it's just been all confident and intimidating, all the time with him, post TAS. Damn shame.)
More layered characterization in that one moment than in the entirety of most Batman stuff. So much Batman media does a terrible job of making you believe no one could figure out Batman was Bruce Wayne, whereas TAS did an excellent job of presenting a guy that's legitimately cultivating two personas that no one would associate with one another.
(Note that this doesn't apply so much to Gotham Knights afterwards, where Bruce was redesigned as a stone-faced, steely-eyed businessman with mechanically perfect posture and a perfect black suit with angles that could cut. What a tone-deaf direction to go after TAS' pitch-perfect framing of the duality Wayne was playing with his public faces. Conroy totally dropped the congenial, somewhat oafish Bruce voice of TAS from his repertoire entirely, it's just been all confident and intimidating, all the time with him, post TAS. Damn shame.)
TAS Batman is my favorite Batman but I 100% agree that Bruce being intimate with Barbara was super weird and always rubbed me the wrong way. She's like 20 and Bruce is 32, and the combination of 1) fucking over Dick and 2) being well aware that a relationship with Barbara could jeopardize their work, it just seemed really out of character for him.
I'm guessing this is from a non-canon comic or something? I know the later episodes made it clear Bruce and Barbara had a thing but I certainly don't remember any mention of Bruce having a kid with Barbara in the cartoons.
GOAT cartoon.
Still can't believe Bruce banged Barbara though. One of the oddest things to come out of that universe.
I'm guessing this is from a non-canon comic or something? I know the later episodes made it clear Bruce and Barbara had a thing but I certainly don't remember any mention of Bruce having a kid with Barbara in the cartoons.
Haloid1177
Banned
Nope totally canon. She has a miscarriage when patrolling because some guys punches her in the stomach if I remember correctly.
Guh, that sounds fucking terrible. At least that particular storyline was only in the comics from what I can find.
I sort of view The New Adventures as an alternate path that TAS takes, one I still enjoy but one that I prefer keeping separate from the original animated series.
TAS starts to speed towards some emotionally-satisfying arc conclusions, and honestly starts giving its heroes and villains some finality. The last time we see Harley in TAS, Batman inspires her to give going straight and narrow one last try. The last time we see Two-Face, it's with Bruce telling him he'll never give up on him and showing his Two-Face scars hidden in shadow, showing only the Harvey side. The last time we see Mr. Freeze, he learns Bruce has helped save his wife's life and he leaves crying those tears "he could no longer shed" during their first meeting.
... And then The New Adventures comes along and just resets all that growth and progress and the characters are more flat and one-dimensional. Even Batman is more one-dimensional, with none of the charismatic, even joyous persona he had as Bruce in the original.
It can be explained that years of crime-fighting wore him down, but I view it merely as one of many possible futures. I even use the Justice League: Epilogue loophole where their future and past versions interact as a sign the future isn't written in stone, and the path to Batman Beyond is but one of many outcomes.
And, honestly, I prefer simply not knowing their ultimate fates, which keeps TAS as this sort of snapshot into the middle of Batman's crusade. We never really see the beginnings - bits and pieces here and there - and I'm okay never seeing the ending. It keeps it in a bubble, timeless and in a limbo of time, just like Gotham itself.
Based on the cartoon, but I don't know if it's exactly considered "canon" to the DCAU, anymore than a lot of the other non-canon tie-ins.
TAS has, what I would consider the canon Batman actor (interpret however you like), canon Joker actor, amazing writing, goofy episodes that were fun, and very serious story-lines that make me weep just like when I was 10. The way they made you empathize with the villains was incredible. That first episode with Victor Fries is heart-wrenching as is the fall of Harvey Dent. 'Beware the Gray Ghost' has to be one of the best tribute episodes among any show as well.
cr0w
Old Member
Eh, I don't know what it is. I can put up with flaws in movies, TV shows, whatever, but cartoons I just have no tolerance for. It's not an active dislike, it's more of an inability to connect with them on a basic level. It's like art. Some people love a certain style or painting, while others just feel nothing toward them at all.
The only ones I've enjoyed recently were Under the Red Hood and TDKR 1 & 2. I even enjoyed Mask of the Phantasm immensely. Theatrical-length cartoons I can enjoy if they're well done, but 22-minute episodes don't do anything for me.
I stopped reading comics in the early '00s when the big events started becoming the norm. The need to change things up on a yearly basis pushed me out. Plus I read fast, so your average comic lasts about a minute to a minute and a half for me, which isn't worth the cover price. It's an expensive hobby.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Where are the blurays
Money is on the table, gimme gimme
Money is on the table, gimme gimme
Haloid1177
Banned
I thought the online comic was billed as a continuation/finale to Beyond. Plus I always thought the BTAS comics counted as canon too. I mean as far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be but I thought they were "official."
I know with a few exceptions, neither Bruce Timm nor Paul Dini had any hand in a lot of the BTAS comics, and nothing that ever happened in them was reflected in the shows or future episodes. They were fun, but I think all the comic stuff was considered the equivalent of old Star Wars Extended Universe content.
Even Dini's own "Mad Love" graphic novel was considered non-canon to the DCAU, but it was adapted (and tamed down slightly) for The New Adventures.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Best version of Catwoman is Darwyn Cooke's from his comics run.
I forgot this thread is about more than just TV and film. What makes her version the best?
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I never liked Selina's non costume design in TAS (and her costume isnt that good ither, thank good they at least didnt add the stitched parts from the Burton version). I always prefered the dark and short hair version of her.
Blonde Selina's are a travesty for me. More Audrey Hepburn, less Pfeiffer in my catwomen, please.
Yes, absolutely.
I freaking love Darwyn Cooke, The New Frontier is a thing of beauty.
Her catwoman shits all over Pfeiffer's cartoon version:
His style also works beautifully with Bruce Timm's style.
Beerman462
Member
Yes, I really like Arkham games Batman too. Would they be considered the same universe? The games are pretty much derived from TAS.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's just a much more interesting/entertaining take on her character. She basically becomes a classic pulp noir heroine, and the book itself feels like one of those late '50s/early '60s crime flicks that used to come on Sunday afternoons in syndication. Everything is really smart, and really slick, but there's still real emotion underneath everything, even though nobody trying to show it.
Abso-fucking-loutely.
On a slightly unrelated note, on a visual level I've always been totally turned off by any depiction of Catwoman that shows her in that horrible purple outfit. Who gave her that awful suit? What an eyesore, jesus.
CAT'S AREN'T PURPLE, SELINA!
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Abso-fucking-loutely.
On a slightly unrelated note, on a visual level, I've always been totally turned off by any depiction of Catwoman that shows her in that horrible purple outfit. What an eyesore, jesus.
CAT'S AREN'T PURPLE, SELINA!
As someone who had to draw every catwoman when working on the DC Scribblenauts, i dont mind when use with the older outfits mixed with green.
The "newer" purple version though, yuck.
The two episodes that I remember watching vividly as a kid was the Harvey Dent origin two-parter. Always stuck with me because I hadn't seen anything like that in a cartoon before, that kind of introspect played out like that. It was kinda haunting but those are the episodes that cemented how good the show was (at least to me as a 7 year old watching it).
THEN there's the Batman in my basement one. I didn't like that at all. Lol Damn kids.
Really need to rewatch this series. It's been years.
THEN there's the Batman in my basement one. I didn't like that at all. Lol Damn kids.
Really need to rewatch this series. It's been years.
ThePrequelsSuck
Banned
Yes
The Arkham games are a hodgepodge of "the best bits" of Batman over the years. It takes equal inspiration from the comics, the cartoons, and the movies yet does something entirely new with it all. It's definitely its own universe, though, and isn't part of the Animated Series, though it's VERY clear its creators knew the series was influential and fantastic and just flat-out decided, "sure, let's put the Animated Batman in the game." (and animated Robin, Nightwing, and Catwoman as well.)
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
ThePrequelsSuck
Banned
This guy seems to be in the ultra-minority when it comes to TAS.
Animation historian Charles Solomon gave the series a somewhat mixed assessment, commenting that "the dark, Art Deco-influenced backgrounds tended to eclipse the stiff animation and pedestrian storytelling" and concluding that the series "looked better in stills than it did on the screen."[34]
Animation historian Charles Solomon gave the series a somewhat mixed assessment, commenting that "the dark, Art Deco-influenced backgrounds tended to eclipse the stiff animation and pedestrian storytelling" and concluding that the series "looked better in stills than it did on the screen."[34]
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I wonder what he's comparing it to. Big budget feature-length Disney animation? Certainly not the other cartoons airing on tv at the time (or anything since, really).
Lol. Whatever you say, Mr. Solomon.
(The animation wasn't always consistent, but compared to almost every other show on TV at the time, it was extremely well animated).
I mean, depending on which episodes he saw, I'd believe it. The first season specifically has some real ugly garbage mixed in with the feature-quality classics.
It depends on the episode. Some of the older eps are definitely Not Very Good.
The TMS episodes (like Feat of Clay pt 2, which a couple of those gifs are from) look absolutely phenomenal, but also TMS only did 11 episodes counting the New Batman Adventures season.
Jawmuncher
Member
Why superman didn't just look like TAS is beyond me. Considering it was the first show anyway.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Yeah. Like most syndicated tv animation, the episodes were animated at different studios around the world. When you needed to get 65 episodes made within a short amount of time, that was necessary in those days.
The animation done at studios like TMS (Two-Face part 1, Feat of Clay part 2, The Demon's Quest) and Spectrum (P.O.V., Robin's Reckoning part 1, Heart of Ice) looked fantastic and rivals anything done for TV....ever.
On the other hand you had studios like Akom that did some very mediocre animation (Christmas with the Joker, Moon of the Wolf, Cat Scratch Fever). For the most part, I think the show is extremely well-animated.
What sucks is that Akom didn't do too many episodes, but they did do 4 of the Joker episodes. The 4 worst Joker episodes in the series, for my money.
Jawmuncher said:
Budget. Kids WB worked with much lower budgets than FOX Kids did in the early '90s.
Superman was the start of the animation switch since Superman had a significantly lower budget than Batman did.
Oh man, "Cat Scratch Fever". The trivia on the DCAU wiki even says "Bruce Timm considers this to be one of the worst episodes of the DC Animated Universe".
Edit: Didn't mean to double-post. My bad.
Beerman462
Member
Makes sense. I have never been into reading comics, but TAS and the Arkham Knight games have pretty much cemented Batman as my favorite charecter. I have enjoyed all the Arkham games. Game play has always been solid and the stories and back grounds really interesting. Alot of people didn't seem to like Arkham Origins, but I think starting after the Bane fight, Batman saving Joker and the subsequent cutscenes is some of the best bit of content out there. The way they look at Jokers relationship with Batman is just great.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
Anything featuring Professor Milo was pretty bad.
Of course, when I say bad, I mean bad for Batman: TAS standards. I'll gladly take the very worst of Batman: TAS over most animated shows.
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