Support NeoGAF

[Gotdatmoney]

"Read the thread" when it's this big isn't an answer. The OP only answers part of my question. You're also making a lot of assumptions with that empathy paragraph. I only use the term "SJW" when I feel that someone who believes with all of their heart that they're doing the right thing, isn't. It's not about a lack of empathy since I do understand gender fluidity and feeling somewhere in-between male and female, what I don't believe in/understand is flat-out making up genders and pronouns, and how that fits into this picture.

With that said, your idea that a person's stance on this matter determines if someone is good or bad is pretty much an SJW thing, IMO. Rather than trying to encourage inclusion, you just label anyone who disagrees to any extent as a heartless person without even trying to understand their point of view, since you've decided that your POV is the only correct one to have. In other words, it's the polar opposite of what you believe me to be. I'll admit that I overreacted, but it's mainly due to the fact that I hate getting dogpiled over an opinion.

If you use "SJW" 10 times out of 10 you have nothing valuable to add to any discussion. It literally serves no purpose other than to be like "yall so fucking annoying and preachy" which even when it's true, isn't a real argument or intelligent way of debate. I say this not feeling any type of way about how pokemon addresses the issue. But seriously, you're answering a controversial question, how are you going to come out and be like "well you labeled me meanly" after your first post literally just was like "on the up and up, what yall believe is not something I consider a real thing"?

 

[LeeRoyBrown]

I was at the gym last week working out and some guy who is now banned called two guys there "Muslim faggots".

My point is. If you think that because this forum doesn't care what gender you are, that the world feels the same... You are living under a rock.

One of my black friends still struggles go hail a cab. Thank God for uber.

I don't think you understand how unprepared this world is to fully accept transsexuals. We might accept them but sadly the world isn't at that point yet.

In my opinion no its not dated. My gay friends are still not living the lives they deserve people of different ethnicity arent, women are still discriminated against heavily to say the least. I think with the amount of oppression and problems in this world that need serious attention the last thing I care about is a politically correct pokemon game.

Bare in mind this a huge portion of this game involves breeding. Male and female pokemon with some genderless such as ditto. The game is simple and uncomplicated.

Im not saying that one day this shouldn't be addressed but I'm sure if you turn to page 1 of you news paper or open any news website you will find more disgusting problems.

 

[GinoFelino]

I was at the gym last week working out and some guy who is now banned called two guys there "Muslim faggots".

My point is. If you think that because this forum doesn't care what gender you are, that the world feels the same... You are living under a rock.

One of my black friends still struggles go hail a cab. Thank God for uber.

I don't think you understand how unprepared this world is to fully accept transsexuals. We might accept them but sadly the world isn't at that point yet.

In my opinion no its not dated. My gay friends are still not living the lives they deserve people of different ethnicity arent, women are still discriminated against heavily to say the least. I think with the amount of oppression and problems in this world that need serious attention the last thing I care about is a politically correct pokemon game.

Bare in mind this a huge portion of this game involves breeding. Male and female pokemon with some genderless such as ditto. The game is simple and uncomplicated.

Im not saying that one day this shouldn't be addressed but I'm sure if you turn to page 1 of you news paper or open any news website you will find more disgusting problems.

This post has so many contradictory statements I have whiplash just from reading it.

 

[MuchoMalo]

Just gonna say that if you refer to the SJW problem, just that phrasing is gonna make people raise an eyebrow.

I say that just to let you know, without accusing you of anything.

It would help to actually know what problem I'm referring to here first, don't you think? Because it's not what you guys think. It's difficult to describe though and I've already explained why I'm upset.


I will say one thing, though: I think the concept of gender itself is the issue here. It's so abstract that absolute inclusion just makes things confusing. It also doesn't help that there's no real definition or medical/psychological understanding of it to strictly decide what it is and isn't, which means that anyone can just make up their own gender and pronouns, which in turn makes both genders and pronouns pointless because they essentially become new names. Hence, we run into the issue of ultimately deciding who to include, which means that somebody isn't happy no matter what happens.

 

[Breads]

With that said, your idea that a person's stance on this matter determines if someone is good or bad is pretty much an SJW thing, IMO. Rather than trying to encourage inclusion, you just label anyone who disagrees to any extent as a heartless person without even trying to understand their point of view, since you've decided that your POV is the only correct one to have. In other words, it's the polar opposite of what you believe me to be. I'll admit that I overreacted, but it's mainly due to the fact that I hate getting dogpiled over an opinion.

I disagree because I do not believe that SJW as an ideology as it is being portrayed here exists. That's just a name some people give to other people when they disagree on specific issues. If they are already using the term then they are already an agenda driven person (ie anti "SJW").

Defending the status quo is a choice. Religion is a choice. Bigotry is a choice. Dogmatic thought is a choice. Etc.

Being gay, non binary/ cis, of the wrong race, not borne in the right country, and etc are not choices. Unlike the first group this second group cannot defend itself against things they cannot change which is why they get more empathy.

 

[LeeRoyBrown]

This post has so many contradictory statements I have whiplash just from reading it.

That comment is so vague and such a drive by I have whiplash from it.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Honestly if you are going to ask why they don't have option for both or neither, you are going to have to ask this about this for every single game ever made. Not entirely sure why you picked out Pokémon, but that's your prerogative. I'll answer on the question of asking someone's gender is "outdated" and I will say not entirely. While it would be amazing and very considerate for the game developers to incorporate options suggest as non-binary or bigender I don't expect them to. Simply putting a spectrum when selecting your character could work wonders with the middle being bi-gender and non-binary and then ranging outwards for male-to-female.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

That comment is so vague and such a drive by I have whiplash from it.

Your post just boils down to the typical "starving children in Africa" argument and that maybe having such a option in a game for kids would lead to a more inclusive world one day.

 

[GinoFelino]

That comment is so vague and such a drive by I have whiplash from it.

A drive-by? Been here since page 1.

Your post reads like it's building up to how important it is to have representation, acceptance and inclusiveness, but instead it retreats at the last second to trivialise all those things because 'worse stuff is happening'. If there's more to it than that, please elaborate.

 

[MuchoMalo]

I disagree because I do not believe that SJW as an ideology as it is being portrayed here exists. That's just a name some people give to other people when they disagree on specific issues. If they are already using the term then they are already an agenda driven person (ie anti "SJW").

Defending the status quo is a choice. Religion is a choice. Bigotry is a choice. Dogmatic thought is a choice. Etc.

Being gay, non binary/ cis, of the wrong race, not borne in the right country, and etc are not choices. Unlike the first group this second group cannot defend itself against things they cannot change which is why they get more empathy.

Hm...

You know what? Upon further consideration, you guys are right; I don't really care about this either way. In fact, the only point I had was that this is perhaps a bit too complex for the target age group and beyond that I don't think that it matters much. shrug

 

[LeeRoyBrown]

Your post just boils down to the typical "starving children in Africa" argument and that maybe having such a option in a game for kids would lead to a more inclusive world one day.

What your oppinion then?

Let me guess. Kids aren't starving in Africa and we shouldn't have a more inclusive world?

Like what's your point? You just don't like what I said because? What?

Mine is while I'm trying to breed a 5iv modest nasty plot egg move serene grace togepi. I couldn't care less if my character was a plank of wood. I turn to the TV and women are being stoned for not wanting to get married.

 

[Ekai]

Hm...

You know what? Upon further consideration, you guys are right; I don't really care about this either way. In fact, the only point I had was that this is perhaps a bit too complex for the target age group and beyond that I don't think that it matters much. shrug

Given how kids as young as 7+ can comprehend their feelings of being different from others, I have to disagree with this being something they can't comprehend. I've said it a lot now, but, I mean, I knew when I was around that age. And kids around me who figured it out somehow (despite me never being open about it) could comprehend it. For better or worse, kids can wrap their minds around this subject. Having lived in it, I confidently can say as much. And this was back in the late 90s.

Of course this is only ever so slightly off-track of non-binary matters but still. Kids, in my experience, can wrap their minds around this kind of stuff. And it's not like this subject matter isn't explored with young teens/young adults/kids. A lot of people start to gain awareness of how they feel in their body while they're fairly young, it would seem. Others have posted articles on this in relation to transgender matters.

 

[Laiza]

Mine is while I'm trying to breed a 5iv modest nasty plot egg move serene grace togepi. I couldn't care less if my character was a plank of wood. I turn to the TV and women are being stoned for not wanting to get married.

No, really, stop that. This is irrelevant to the topic. Whataboutism is just plain deflection, full-stop.

We can address the topic or you can leave the thread. It's that simple. If you want to talk about all the other ills in the world, you can start a thread to do that in off-topic. This isn't the place.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

What your oppinion then?

Let me guess. Kids aren't starving in Africa and we shouldn't have a more inclusive world?

Like what's your point? You just don't like what I said because? What?

Mine is while I'm trying to breed a 5iv modest nasty plot egg move serene grace togepi. I couldn't care less if my character was a plank of wood. I turn to the TV and women are being stoned for not wanting to get married.

My opinion is that you don't have any interesting to say and for some reason feel threatened or offended by the idea this is a thread.

 

[Mael]

What your oppinion then?

Let me guess. Kids aren't starving in Africa and we shouldn't have a more inclusive world?

Like what's your point? You just don't like what I said because? What?

Mine is while I'm trying to breed a 5iv modest nasty plot egg move serene grace togepi. I couldn't care less if my character was a plank of wood. I turn to the TV and women are being stoned for not wanting to get married.

You better not be a good pokemon breeder to waste your account on something you clearly do not give a shit about.
I mean how hard it is to just not post in a thread you clearly have nothing to contribute?

 

[LeeRoyBrown]

You better not be a good pokemon breeder to waste your account on something you clearly do not give a shit about.
I mean how hard it is to just not post in a thread you clearly have nothing to contribute?

I dont understand your comment.

Im saying I really dont think its an issue. Why are you so angry?

Edit: Why are you attacking the way I play a game?

My opinion is that you don't have any interesting to say and for some reason feel threatened or offended by the idea this is a thread.

I don't think anything I've said represents someone who is threatened. I'm not offended even remotely by the idea. I'm not even in a bad mood. Why do you read so angry?

Final Edit: I can see my oppinion isn't liked by 2-3 people in this thread so I'm no longer commenting here. If you want to tell me how much you don't like my oppinion further you can PM. No need to get nasty.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Mine is while I'm trying to breed a 5iv modest nasty plot egg move serene grace togepi. I couldn't care less if my character was a plank of wood. I turn to the TV and women are being stoned for not wanting to get married.

Your point is that this question being asked on this game forum that you are reading for fun instead of doing more productive things is not important?

Video games are not important, neogaf is not important but you still find time for that. So why are you playing the whataboutism game on this specific question in this specific thread?

 

[Mael]

I dont understand your comment.

Im saying I really dont think its an issue. Why are you so angry?

Why are you attacking the way I play a game?

I'm not attacking the way you play the game, I like that (like you have no idea how much I like breeding in pkmn).
What I don't like is potential breeders getting banned because they post stupid stuffs elsewhere!
If you think it's not an issue, just stick to stating cleanly that you don't.
Don't go on claiming that the world doesn't and shouldn't give a shit about this and that anyone who would want it are living in lalaland or something.
1 thing I can say as far as far as Gen VI goes, X/Y I can play for pretty much an unreasonable length of time more than I could stomach ORAS.
And by all account I don't think ORAS is the worse experience, the fact that I could even approach having an avatar that I could identify with even squinting from a mile away is the very reason why I keep coming back to it (seriously I even borrowed another 3DS and a copy of Y just to replay a pkmn game, something I never ever do).
Clearly what little there is of customisation in XY made the game tremendously more appealing to me, if even just a change in the question at the start can make the game more appealing to someone else I'm not going to camp GameFreak to make sure that never happens.

e: And no we're ok with you having an opinion on the matter, deeming your opinion as the only valid one the way you did with your appeal to solving world hunger is what I have a problem with.
e2 : also do not assume tone from text, for all you know we're all sipping scotch while solving world hunger at the UN.

 

[Persona7]

Its a Kids game. 👦👧

I remember this argument when people were talking about gay marriages in tomodachi life.

 

[Lord of Ostia]

I dont understand your comment.

Im saying I really dont think its an issue. Why are you so angry?

Edit: Why are you attacking the way I play a game?



I don't think anything I've said represents someone who is threatened. I'm not offended even remotely by the idea. I'm not even in a bad mood. Why do you read so angry?

Final Edit: I can see my oppinion isn't liked by 2-3 people in this thread so I'm no longer commenting here. If you want to tell me how much you don't like my oppinion further you can PM. No need to get nasty.

People aren't getting nasty, they are simply calling you out for making a lazy "there are worse things in the world argument". There will ALWAYS be more pressing in the world than any issue in gaming at all. Does that mean we shouldn't discuss games at all, and NeoGAF shouldn't exist? That's the kind of argument you are making. It is lazy and dismissive to the topic at hand, and in no way invalidates the idea that pokemon, or any other game, could be more inclusive.

 

[Arozay]

I mean what if someone in real life went up to people and asked that question?

How do they do birth certificates these days? Because I assume that's along the lines of the in-game question instead of it trying to offend you.

 

[AnathemicOne]

It basically asks your gender and there is only two choices. I fail see to novelty in it. I know that you can pick one or the other but what if you associate with neither or both? I just find it lame that it is asking you if you are a boy or girl in the first place and implying that you are either.

I mean what if someone in real life went up to people and asked that question?

Is this something that is forever going to be a tradition of the Pokémon mainline games and remakes? I mean it doesn't have to be worded the way it is , Pokémon Go at least tried to do something about it.

I don't think it is, with that said however, it could be updated. The choice of gender in the Pokemon games was introduced in Gen 3 with the original Ruby and Sapphire to which has been further augmented with appearance changes in Gen 6 with X and Y, so Nintendo/Gamefreak aren't unknown to changes with the character creation system in their games.

Will it be done? Probably not. I base this because of the social climate in Japan; the question of "Are you a boy or a girl?" is very benign. While people over on the West might see it as weird or offensive the typical Japanese individual probably doesn't register anything as out of the ordinary. Compound this with the fact that these games are aimed for the kid/preteen demographic the chances of Nintendo/Gamefreak taking note of possible offenses to this character creation question is very very slim.

 

[Slamtastic]

The choice of gender in the Pokemon games was introduced in Gen 3 with the original Ruby and Sapphire

Why does everyone, including Gamefreak, forget Kris?

 

[AnathemicOne]

Why does everyone, including Gamefreak, forget Kris?

Pshh who plays Crystal version? Joking, I never played enough Crystal compared to Silver back in the day (due to my game being stolen).

 

[spons]

Not really, you're either male or female so the question shouldn't be offensive. In regards to the chosen clothing and hairstyle, the game should just allow you to change it during character creation. It doesn't seem that difficult to add to the game.

Acknowledging a human condition I have no personal experience with? In MY pokemon? Heavens!

(Don't tell anyone about Stevonnie or Blanche)

You realize that "condition" is more serious than that right? Gender dysphoria is a serious mental disorder. I really don't know if it should be included in a game under the guise of "inclusion". I don't see any options for being a schizophrenic or having autism in any game nor do I see the amount of advocating for the inclusion of them as with "non binary genders", even though both are far more widespread.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Fuck it, time to make an androgynous character that the player, regardless of gender, can project onto. A link between player and character if you will.

 

[GhostInTheAttic]

...its not an issue, its a option in the game that can be easily overlooked if you truly enjoy pokemon itself. I think this thread should be more about complaining of the lack of character customization than gender. Players are players, dosent matter what they are as long as everyone is having fun with the game

 

[Sai-kun]

Not really, you're either male or female so the question shouldn't be offensive. In regards to the chosen clothing and hairstyle, the game should just allow you to change it during character creation. It doesn't seem that difficult to add to the game.



You realize that "condition" is more serious than that right? Gender dysphoria is a serious mental disorder. I really don't know if it should be included in a game under the guise of "inclusion". I don't see any options for being a schizophrenic or having autism in any game nor do I see the amount of advocating for the inclusion of them as with "non binary genders", even though both are far more widespread.

It's not up to gender non-conforming folks to advocate for neuro-atypical portrayals in gaming. They have nothing to do with each other, so your comparison is pretty fucking stupid, honestly, especially considering how much it seems that folks on the autism spectrum appreciate the accurate representation in animation and gaming (when it happens).

Fuck it, time to make an androgynous character that the player, regardless of gender, can project onto. A link between player and character if you will.

I really think this is the way to go. Choose your pronoun, and whatever your character looks like afterword is up to you, just like Animal Crossing!

 

[enemy2k]

I haven't played a mainline Pokemon game in awhile but I do play Pokemon Go and recently hit level 21. This never crossed my mind but I am glad you brought it up. You made good points and Game Freak could easily make a few changes to be more inclusive.

I read some of the posts in this thread and I can't fathom why people would be against this? More choices doesn't hurt anyone but it could certainly help! So there is upside but no apparent downsides so it seems like a no brainer to me.

On a similar note, my 10 year old biracial niece plays Pokemon Go after I taught her how to play and she was so happy that she could choose to play as a black girl, a lot of games do not have that option! The joy she expressed just because she could have an avatar that resembles her was heartwarming. I could imagine a trans person feeling the same joy if their was an option for them! Why would anyone want to deny that? I just don't get it...

 

[Opto]

Not really, you're either male or female so the question shouldn't be offensive. In regards to the chosen clothing and hairstyle, the game should just allow you to change it during character creation. It doesn't seem that difficult to add to the game.



You realize that "condition" is more serious than that right? Gender dysphoria is a serious mental disorder. I really don't know if it should be included in a game under the guise of "inclusion". I don't see any options for being a schizophrenic or having autism in any game nor do I see the amount of advocating for the inclusion of them as with "non binary genders", even though both are far more widespread.

There have been multiple posts about intersex, and non-binary people, so there isn't just "male or female." My use of the word 'condition' was to broadly acknowledge it's an experience that happens with people, and yes, gender dysphoria can be part of that. I don't want to make any assumptions about how people are experiencing it. If you really acknowledge gender dysphoria as a serious disorder, then you know the world being accepting of them and accommodating them can greatly ease the burden. That includes pokemon games

OP and the others in the thread aren't asking Pokemon to explore gender, just to give a non-binary option. Also I really doubt anyone would really object to games giving some berth for mental disorders accessibility.

 

[khaaan]

I haven't played a mainline Pokemon game in awhile but I do play Pokemon Go and recently hit level 21. This never crossed my mind but I am glad you brought it up. You made good points and Game Freak could easily make a few changes to be more inclusive.

I mean, there's reason to believe Sun/Moon may not be asking you whether you're a Boy or a Girl anymore. The only problem I have with this thread is that it's trying to discuss a single game when it's clear that the conversation is at a more meta level.

 

[spons]

There have been multiple posts about intersex, and non-binary people, so there isn't just "male or female." My use of the word 'condition' was to broadly acknowledge it's an experience that happens with people, and yes, gender dysphoria can be part of that. I don't want to make any assumptions about how people are experiencing it. If you really acknowledge gender dysphoria as a serious disorder, then you know the world being accepting of them and accommodating them can greatly ease the burden. That includes pokemon games

OP and the others in the thread aren't asking Pokemon to explore gender, just to give a non-binary option. Also I really doubt anyone would really object to games giving some berth for mental disorders accessibility.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I have autism (ex-Asperger, since DSM 5 just lumped in the autism "spectrum" group) myself and rarely do I feel shunned by society, in large part due to the great work of people who advocate for rights and acknowledgement of it being a disorder, which really isn't that negative of a word as some people make it to be. I know exactly how it feels to be different from the norm and inclusion as part of acceptance is truly important.

In regards to video games and gender, having male/female choices and stereotype hair- and clothing-style is simply pandering to that "norm", that majority group of people - people who apparently are white teens, either male or female with a standard appearance in the case of Pokemon.

There is no technical reason why non-binary isn't included. The solution to this is not something I really know how to solve, maybe I should delve into this thread some more. Dropping gender as an option doesn't solve the problem (if you can't see it it's not there has never been a proper argument) and adding the literal "non-binary" option in there would probably shun some parents, which is bad for a company that's all in for the money. So from the perspective of Nintendo, I don't know what I would do.

From the perspective of inclusion, obviously they should take a wider approach to gender. And if there's ever a game that makes me experience the world of schizophrenia or autism through the eyes of a fictional character, I would definitely check it out. Games are a great medium for interactive storytelling, and that's exactly why inclusion is important. "Serious" games like they have been used for simulations can easily be adapted to tell the story of gender dysphoria or autism, I think it's great if companies would invest in that.

Sorry for the wordy response, I just don't feel my opinion is "fucking stupid" like someone else said earlier, even if you don't agree with it.

 

[Mieu]

I think this is really a non-issue. How many or how big is the percentage of players that affected by it?

Are people just getting really, really sensitive about gender representation in video games?

 

[ShironRedshift]

I think this is really a non-issue. How many or how big is the percentage of players that affected by it?

Are people just getting really, really sensitive about gender representation in video games?

What's it matter if it's a small number of people if it could nonetheless be changed to better their experience while not affecting anything for the vast majority of players by dimpling making a seamless change like Pokémon Go and just asking something like "What's your style?" instead?

And since you're not gender non-conforming, you really don't get to define what are and aren't problems for those of us that are. It's not your place to say or decide that. But ultimately that doesn't matter. It can easily be changed for the better in ways that don't change anything for anyone else anyway, so I don't see the reason not to. Easy win-win.

Edit: And I suppose I should clarify and avoid being vague on this. Personally, despite being genderfluid, this isn't that big a deal to me personally. However, I'm just one person and my experiences and feelings aren't everyone's. Just because I feel that way doesn't mean others don't feel differently. And if this can better the experience for so much as one person while not affecting anything for anyone else, I can't possibly see any reason not to do that. That's more than enough to me, and I would hope that that would be a sentiment that could be agreed on and shared at the very least.

 

[NurseRedHeart]

Late post I know but I just started the fan game Pokemon Uranium and it doesn't ask this question. Instead it lets you pick either a male or female character, or an androgynous one in the middle. Leave it to the fans to make better video game design choices as usual, especially for Nintendo games, heh.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

I like how in Animal crossing all clothes and stuff are accessible no mater what gender you picked at the start.

Even if a game didn't provide a non-binary option at the start, I think not segregating clothing, make-up options etc is a fun step I've actually seen that I like myself.

 

[KHlover]

Since you play as a 10yo kid without visibly developed primary sex organs anyways - just give us a blank slate and all of the clothes/hairstyles. I literally can't think of a game where this would be easier to do than Pokemon.

 

[Militant17]

Is this the way things are going? We can't find things to be genuinely outraged about so we come up wit shit like this? How about so we don't offend anyone make it mandatory for devs to include options for all 20 or so genders people now identify as, plus why where at it why stop there? Lets add the ability to choose your weight, age, race, country, religion, country, height, IQ, eye/hair color otherwise those guys might feel left out.

Why is it that what gender an individual identifies themselves is forced to be an issue for everyone to deal with nowadays, no dev has to include options just to make sure you don't get your feeling hurt. you either like the game or you don't, buy it or don't, but lets not try and make this into some kind of discriminatory situation when it clearly isn't. Also lets not force devs to change there games to include PC safe words as to not offend those who are easily offended.

 

[Par Score]

32 pages in, and we still get stuff like this.

It's like a Greatest Hits collection of bad faith arguments from the rest of the thread, it's "Outrage Culture" buzzword bingo!

Is this the way things are going? We can't find things to be genuinely outraged about so we come up wit shit like this? How about so we don't offend anyone make it mandatory for devs to include options for all 20 or so genders people now identify as, plus why where at it why stop there? Lets add the ability to choose your weight, age, race, country, religion, country, height, IQ, eye/hair color otherwise those guys might feel left out.

Why is it that what gender an individual identifies themselves is forced to be an issue for everyone to deal with nowadays, no dev has to include options just to make sure you don't get your feeling hurt. you either like the game or you don't, buy it or don't, but lets not try and make this into some kind of discriminatory situation when it clearly isn't. Also lets not force devs to change there games to include PC safe words as to not offend those who are easily offended.

To quickly sum up:

• Yes, a more inclusive society is the general trend, sorry about that.
• You are way more offended and outraged than the windmills you are tilting at.
• Nobody is asking for an exhaustive list of their preferred gender pronouns, just a simple non-binary option (as is basically included in Pokemon GO and Sun and Moon...)
• Many games already include character creators with the depth of options you seem to consider comically excessive.
• Gender has been important throughout human history, and will continue to be so.
• Someone's gender identity can be about as important a thing about a person as it's possible for anything to be.
• Nobody is forcing developers to do anything. A post on NeoGAF has no legislatorial power anywhere in the world.
• Criticism is not censorship, "voting with your wallet" is not the only valid form of criticism, I can choose to not buy something and still complain about it too.
• Offering only a binary gender choice is pretty explicitly discriminatory.
• Again, you are way more offended and outraged than the windmills you are tilting at.

 

[Bert]

And since you're not gender non-conforming, you really don't get to define what are and aren't problems for those of us that are. It's not your place to say or decide that.

Rest of your post is good, this line worries me.

That way segregation lies. I can just as easily say that I don't like the term "cis" and would appreciate you not using it as I find it offensive. Problem is that we don't live in bubbles, we do need agreed standards of behaviour.

You may think having 50 gender options on Facebook doesn't change anything, or 18 different skin tones (none of which look like mine), well now I'm upset because my weight or myopia isn't accounted for, what about my depression and anxiety, or my skin condition. Do you know how many heroes with bad skin are out there? These are all as much a part of my identity as your gender or sexual preference. If anything, I'd rather go the other way and have less choice, but then it'd be the feminists complaining it's sexist.

We work as a society by compromise and agreement, not everyone off in their own little silos. This idea of "you're white/male/childless/able bodied" so you don't have a say is a really nasty side of progressive politics the last decade or two. Whether because of the Internet or what, I don't know but there's been a noticeable increase is people claiming their opinions are bulletproof and anyone who even dares question then is a Bad Person (tm).

I know I'm just howling at the wind and you probably didn't even mean it like that. But this thread makes me sad, just people spitting bile at perceived evil doers and others not even attempting to argue in good faith because of said bile. That's not the way to more tolerance.

In the UK we have this a lot with immigration at the moment. Either your a racist bigot, or you want 100 million immigrants in tomorrow and no middle ground. It is the responsibility of progressives to ensure that we progress at a pace the majority are comfortable with, or you get shit like Brexit and Trump because the progressives seem a million miles away from the rest.

I dunno, can't we all just have a little faith that the people we are talking to are coming from a good place instead of everyone being so quick to jump on each other and tell them they are wrong and evil. (yes, I recognise the irony in my post).

 

[Xenoblade]

implying that you are either.

I legit don't understand. Of course you are either a boy or a girl. What else can you be???

Edit: Holy shit. After reading the comments I see there's a whole new thing I wasn't aware of. The world's a lot more complicated these days.

 

[Camp Freddie]

Allowing people to choose something other than male or female is nice, but I don't think every game needs to allow for an infinite variety of custom pronouns, etc.

Besides, you know that most people will use it for infantile humour. If calling your character Cockweasel wasn't enough, imagine the mischeif to be had when you can enter custom words for he/him/himself/his.

On the other hand, non-binary choices can be embraced in ways that make games much better. Fallen London has this masterpiece:

May we ask whether you're a lady or a gentleman?

• A lady
• A gentleman
• My dear sir, there are individuals roaming the streets of Fallen London at this very moment with the faces of squid! Squid! Do you ask them their gender? And yet you waste our time asking me trifling and impertinent questions about mine? It is my own business, sir, and I bid you good day.

 

[Regginator]

I legit don't understand. Of course you are either a boy or a girl. What else can you be???

I think what OP means is sex =/= gender (one you're born as and "one you identify with").

 

[purseowner]

I legit don't understand. Of course you are either a boy or a girl. What else can you be???

Neither, both, etc.

Perhaps Google or read the thread before making such a statement.

 

[StayDead]

I think what OP means is sex =/= gender (one you're born as and "one you identify with").

Sex indeed does not equal gender. This entire thread has somewhat spawned from a weird choice of translation back in the 90s. The word it uses in Japan for the same question is what is your sex. I don't get why they swapped it to gender in the English releases of the game. fairly certain the definition of the word gender hasn't changed since Pokemon was translated initially. Thinking about it literally are boy and girl even classed as genders? Are genders not more along the lines of straight/gay for example? Maybe I'm missinformed and I apologise if I am incorrect.

 

[Thelonelykoopa]

Sex indeed does not equal gender. This is all honestly caused by a really weird translation choice. The word it uses in Japan for the same question is what is your sex. I don't get why they swapped it to gender in the English releases of the game. I'm honestly not sure if the definition of gender has changed since Pokemon was translated initially, but thinking about it literally are boy and girl even genders? Genders would be more along the lines of straight/gay for example rather than boy and girl. Maybe I'm incorrect? If so I apologise.

I havent played the japanese text version of x and y for a while but I think gender and sex uses the same word original in Japanese and so the translaters had a choice between either sex or gender and children games perfer the term gender instead of sex. In japanese if you are talking about gender seperate from sex the game would use I think ジェンダー。

 

[StayDead]

I havent played the japanese text version of x and y for a while but I think gender and sex uses the same word original in Japanese and so the translaters had a choice between either sex or gender and children games perfer the term gender instead of sex. In japanese if you are talking about gender seperate from sex the game would use I think ジェンダー。

Indeed it does. Seems I was mistaken in thinking 性別 only meant sex, it means gender as well. Still there's a pretty important definition between the two in English, so the translation still doesn't make too much sense. I understand sex is a word people probably don't want young children knowing about, but honestly sex in this instance is a pretty important word to understand as it's very different from gender.

 

[Raiden]

I'm kind of baffled. I get that people associate themselves with other genders and all, but I don't think that you should expect games to cater to a Frostsexual Nebulakin audience. Pokémon is already better than most games by letting you choose to be female. If you're transgender just pick the one you're more comfortable with. And in the end you're playing a character in a mainstream video game, not making a statement about yourself.

This. You cant do right for every minority group. I mean its still just a videogame. And i get your point OP but i feel like its weird to pick Pokemon out of all things.

 

[Par Score]

This. You cant do right for every minority group. I mean its still just a videogame. And i get your point OP but i feel like its weird to pick Pokemon out of all things.

Ignoring your other repeatedly addressed points about representation, and the even dumber "it's just a game" argument, It's not weird to single out Pokemon at all.

Google "are you a boy or girl". Notice how there are pages, and pages, and pages and pages and pages of specifically Pokemon memes on this topic.

I cannot think of another game that directly addresses you, at it's very opening, and asks "Are you a boy? Or are you a girl?". Now, I may be ignorant of the many other games that do this*, but certainly none of those come even close to 1/100th as popular as Pokemon.

*To be clear, I'm not talking about your standard RPG character creator, where you're presented with a whole host of options and end up picking a buff cat dude vs a svelte cat lady, I'm talking about games that straight up ask "Are you a boy? Or are you a girl?"

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Ignoring your other repeatedly addressed points about representation, and the even dumber "it's just a game" argument, It's not weird to single out Pokemon at all.

Google "are you a boy or girl". Notice how there are pages, and pages, and pages and pages and pages of specifically Pokemon memes on this topic.

I cannot think of another game that directly addresses you, at it's very opening, and asks "Are you a boy? Or are you a girl?". Now, I may be ignorant of the many other games that do this*, but certainly none of those come even close to 1/100th as popular as Pokemon.

*To be clear, I'm not talking about your standard RPG character creator, where you're presented with a whole host of options and end up picking a buff cat dude vs a svelte cat lady, I'm talking about games that straight up ask "Are you a boy? Or are you a girl?"

The thing to keep in mind with Pokemon is that ALL the NPCs address the player character in that tense. Not just the professor.

It does feel weird for the professor to ask that question, but he's not literally asking *you,* he's asking the in-game protagonist.

I think this topic thread would have been more productive if the OP had given an example of how they should rephrase the question or handle that portion of the game.

In the context of pokemon games, that question is important because it determines the base of your player avatar, and several in-game translations and options are determined based on the gender you choose to play as.

In English it may seem trivial to swap the genders of the player. But in other languages it's not as easy.

In Japanese for instance, women are expected to use more polite speech patterns then men and it would seem awkward or out of place for a woman to talk like a man.

Not to mention the non-binary community is small, and there isn't a consensus on how they should be addressed. One person might prefer the pronoun "it," and another might find that extremely offensive or ignorant. Or it might be the case where the commonly accepted word in one language is considered offensive in another.

At the end of the day the decision to include more gender options is based on $$$, and there isn't a large enough contingent of players asking for this for the developers to consider it.